The problem with that is that it could possibly require a higher rating from the ESRB, and then Mess could get his Tinkerbell-esque strapless top hooker-wear. And I wouldn't want that.
I'm beginning to think you have a crush on me Ayla As to my tinker bell dress no fear the dev's pretty much already delivered on that one
Regardless if you got sick or not Cryptic thinks that it did make others sick. Therefore you are asking them to do something that they know they can't do a good job on. So I don't see any good reason why they would take a course of action they know isn't going to turn out well.
It DID NOT make ppl sick the point is I and this other fellow here are just two of many many many MANY satisfied players who played villians.. what ? You are saying no one likes to play the badguyz? Cmon man we know thats not the case
That is an interesting statement you brought up, "why can't we play as villains?"Then again.... "why can we play as villians?" Rpgers love playing a villians role. My super group is an villians pvp/rpg friendly. So we can do what we want in champions. Just have to break down the mental barriers behind it.
If they do a villians i would much prefer they made it world PvP and used some kind of flag system as i hated the way it was implimented in CoH/CoV
And some will say that after DCUO hits and its version of world pvp and players get used to diametrically-opposed Hero vs Villain missions re: an objective - i think other MMOs will come around to trying to match that.
I'm not saying DCUO will be better as a game, far from it. I do think CO will eventually be able to match it or better it in it's lifetime.
Flagged would be good Mess, as would it being endgame with it reserved for the 40+ level security clearance. That would work for Heroes (with the pve game safe and immune) with younger recruits getting the system message (outside say...a 3 level range: ie 37+) ' you are not authorised to engage the Alpha level threat:[target]' - enforcements are on the way !' - (and a similiar RP themed one for Villains).
World PvP or large instances with diametrically opposed goals. Bankjobs, Museum thefts, street rampages, destruction of (and defence of) city landmarks and property.
Actually, long before this game even was in closed Beta, I was apart of these forums under another account. They said that they *will* come out with a villain side, but not from the start. Of course like Cryptic so often does, that may no longer be the case. An update to this from an official would be appreciated.
I think that people like the "Allure" of the villian mystique.
But they don't want to have to deal with the consequences of the decision.
The consequences being an absolute failure to emulate the very CORE of being a villian: doing what you want when you want, regardless of law or custom? Supervilliany is about a level of freedom that this engine can't do on its best day.
You think picking up a contact's laundry makes a mockery of heroism (no kidding, that quest exists in CO, though it's mostly funny)? Try asking a super villian to do that and realize step one would be you should be able to KILL your stupid contacts...
It DID NOT make ppl sick the point is I and this other fellow here are just two of many many many MANY satisfied players who played villians.. what ? You are saying no one likes to play the badguyz? Cmon man we know thats not the case
I think the chef should be able to critique his own creation. And trying to force them to make something that they think is GARBAGE is not going to work. What I am saying is that even if you could force Cryptic to repeat their mistake, that forcing someone to make a mistake might not bear loving fruit.
In short CoV was garbage and made people sick from the words of the CREATOR. What you, one consumer, have to say is moot compared to that.
Look, we don't even have the 'dark champions' expansion that's supposed to introduce anti-heroes and grimdark heroes and yet all I see is grimdark heroes in black and red leather.
Let me ask you a question... what prevents you from playing a villain then, hmm? Nothing! You can RP all you want. there is already many demons and anti-heroes running around. surely a few villains won't change things much
I'm beginning to think you have a crush on me Ayla As to my tinker bell dress no fear the dev's pretty much already delivered on that one
I'm getting around to sending a whistleblower email to the ESRB you should know. Beyond that I have to at least ponder the possibility of canceling my subscription as previously stated.
And it's not exactly a crush. What's that other thing? You know sort of like that thing between Hawaiians and the Japanese during WWII. That sort of thing?
But what did you name your new prostitute themed "hero"? Lady Knee-Scab?
And some will say that after DCUO hits and its version of world pvp and players get used to diametrically-opposed Hero vs Villain missions re: an objective - i think other MMOs will come around to trying to match that.
Yea if DCOU dose it well i can see it atleast being considered both here and in CoX and also for any future superhero based MMOs. It just makes sence from a comic point of veiw heroes and villians don't live in citys or countries miles apart and only battle from time to time (well unless your names doom or magneto) they live within the same space and when they meet they tend to come to blows.
Flagged would be good Mess, as would it being endgame with it reserved for the 40+ level security clearance. That would work for Heroes (with the pve game safe and immune) with younger recruits getting the system message (outside say...a 3 level range: ie 37+) ' you are not authorised to engage the Alpha level threat:[target]' - enforcements are on the way !' - (and a similiar RP themed one for Villains).
I think it should be open again think of the early X-men story they were still students learning to use there powers but would take on more experience villains, same for spider man, robin, the teen titans every hero and by extension villain has to start some where if CO did choose to implement a open PvP system (with flags) i think it would be important to blur the line between PC and NPC sure its never going to be perfect but if there was a sprinkling of individual NPC that were powerful it could serve to balance things. same would go for law enforcement have them react to the villains even calling in reinforcements.
World PvP or large instances with diametrically opposed goals. Bankjobs, Museum thefts, street rampages, destruction of (and defence of) city landmarks and property.
those would all be great as a villian you could brake into the bank which would then flag the bank as being robbed then a hero could enter the bank to stop you.
I'm getting around to sending a whistleblower email to the ESRB you should know. Beyond that I have to at least ponder the possibility of canceling my subscription as previously stated.
Well they don't respond to emails so don't hold your breth and even if they did what are tehy going to do?
And it's not exactly a crush. What's that other thing? You know sort of like that thing between Hawaiians and the Japanese during WWII. That sort of thing?
Infatuation? Lust?
But what did you name your new prostitute themed "hero"? Lady Knee-Scab?
No prostitute themed heros onmy accoun't you must be thinking of some one else
Well they don't respond to emails so don't hold your breth and even if they did what are tehy going to do?
Best case scenario they would strong arm Cryptic into removing the offending content or risk having the having the ESRB disallow Cryptic to use their rating.
Infatuation? Lust?
I was going more for hatred.
No prostitute themed heros onmy accoun't you must be thinking of some one else
So after all of that you aren't even going to use the outfits?
Cryptic would be far better to go down the Dark Champions route i think it would open up less moral game play but would keep the player largely on the side of the angels.
Best of all it could be layered over the current game they could add some kind of morality meter allowing current characters to go down a more vigilantly path if they so wish or stick to being true heroes and vigilante heroes could make there way from working in the shadows to being full blown public spirited heroes
new Dark Champions contacts could be added to the existing zones (suitably located in shady ally ways and such) they would only talk to you if you were of the vigilant bent. also a lot of the more law abiding current contacts would no longer talk to you and the authorities would try and arrest you.
It could add a hole new levelling path something that is sorely needed in the game.
They could also add Hudson City as a new Zone. A Zone where heroes are considered as bad as the criminals and are treated as such by the local law enforcement. Perhaps have it so only the most publicly recognisable heroes (so those at the opposite end from morality meter from the Dark Champions) would be accepted.
Love it. Other than determining morality, this is all existing tech. Make Thundrax write it an I'll give Cryptic 40 bucks and paypal Thundrax another $50 directly.
That is an interesting statement you brought up, "why can't we play as villains?"Then again.... "why can we play as villians?" Rpgers love playing a villians role. My super group is an villians pvp/rpg friendly. So we can do what we want in champions. Just have to break down the mental barriers behind it.
I'm getting around to sending a whistleblower email to the ESRB you should know. Beyond that I have to at least ponder the possibility of canceling my subscription as previously stated.
And it's not exactly a crush. What's that other thing? You know sort of like that thing between Hawaiians and the Japanese during WWII. That sort of thing?
But what did you name your new prostitute themed "hero"? Lady Knee-Scab?
While I can understand that scantily clad women can offend some it is considered a staple in the comic book hero genre. I think I might actually buy some C-Points just so I can get the new Millennium costume pack; there are some wonderful new designs in there for both sexes.
Best case scenario they would strong arm Cryptic into removing the offending content or risk having the having the ESRB disallow Cryptic to use their rating.
"remove our rating because you have breached the no straps rule"
nah can't see it happening maybe if they had added full blown red light district then yea but can't see it happening over the tops.
I was going more for hatred.
Ah i understand with such extream emotions its easy for you to mistake extream love as hatred. Don't worry just follow your hart
The problem w/ allowing players to be villains is that the means to restrict what they do are much more limited. Essentially, a hero preserves the status quo, (we're not talking about a world where the govt is bad and oppressive and the heroes are actually rebelling against that, here). A villain, OTOH, might want to drop a nuke on the city. How do you handle the ramifications of the villain succeeding in his task? It's one thing to play a small time bank robber or vandal, but the big time stuff just wouldn't work. You couldn't have players randomly murdering innocent civilians or destroying the world.
In the case of CoV, you never could truly realize a "real supervillain". You were always robbing banks or trinkets. In most cases, I felt like an antihero more than a real comic book villain.
I mean, the game is plenty violent already. We "heroes" meet small time crooks with guns and soul-ripping powers... that doesn't sound too heroic in the traditional sense. If anything, I'd like to see some options, with rewards and penalties, to using less than lethal tactics to bring in criminals, and ones for straight brutality.
Regardless, they definitely need to flesh things out a bit more in the existing 1-40 game, before branching off too much.
Well, something they could do is set up cities or letting the villians take over alternate dimensions, or destroying nameless cities. just an idea.
Well, something they could do is set up cities or letting the villians take over alternate dimensions, or destroying nameless cities. just an idea.
But then you aren't really fulfilling *your* goals. What if my character's motivations involve ruling *this* dimension, or killing one of the named heroes? It just wouldn't be possible in an MMO environment. Even a sandbox game, created from the ground-up to permit villain play, couldn't truly permit villains to "destroy the world" or the like.
The most you could hope for would be to have a system where police/military/hero presence/civilians/etc were tied to various player's successes or failures. Even then, it'd have to mostly be cosmetic, as you wouldn't want players who started playing sooner to deny content or opportunities to newer players.
The most we could hope for would be something like "Enforcers Online", where we play as up-and-coming "signature villains" for existing villain groups. You would start as an unaffiliated character, and over the course of your adventures, you join up with one of the existing villain groups, and help further their interests. Maybe you could try to overthrow one of them later on, and the results of your efforts result in different interactions w/ said group. Your successes or failures would also result in a greater or lessened presence of said enemy group in the open world.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The problem ultimately comes down to the fact that the villain can't win. If they achieve their goals there's nothing left to do...
Villains are driven by a motivation, a goal, regardless of whether it's to steal a billion dollars and retire or take over the world. If you win as a villain, then what? You become management. Today I'll buy a yacht. Best send a unit to deal with that rebellion in Minnesota...
If the heroes win, justice is served, another fight looms. If the villains win, game over...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Something I recommend people of villanious mindset is to firstly, start thinking like a villain.
Say to yourself, what game mechanics are there that allow me to do harm to the NPC citizens who I cannot directly target? There is a way, but I'm not saying here.
Secondly, since anti-heroes aren't everyone's cup of tea, have you considered a different flavour?
The anti-villain?
A villain, with villanious goals, but he intends to do them through heroic measures.
"I will TAKE OVER THE WORRLD!!! By making myself as the prime protector of the human race, and make them increasingly more dependant on my powers, then one day... I stop helping, and watch as they perish, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
It's all in how you roleplay it.
Saving a kitten from a tree is just the first stepping stone to your total dominion of all things.
Wanna be a villian? Just figure out one of those highly exploitative PvP builds, then challenge people to duels and que for hero games. You'll be a villian soon enough.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Wanna be a villian? Just figure out one of those highly exploitative PvP builds, then challenge people to duels and que for hero games. You'll be a villian soon enough.
Something I recommend people of villanious mindset is to firstly, start thinking like a villain.
Say to yourself, what game mechanics are there that allow me to do harm to the NPC citizens who I cannot directly target? There is a way, but I'm not saying here.
Secondly, since anti-heroes aren't everyone's cup of tea, have you considered a different flavour?
The anti-villain?
A villain, with villanious goals, but he intends to do them through heroic measures.
"I will TAKE OVER THE WORRLD!!! By making myself as the prime protector of the human race, and make them increasingly more dependant on my powers, then one day... I stop helping, and watch as they perish, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
It's all in how you roleplay it.
Saving a kitten from a tree is just the first stepping stone to your total dominion of all things.
I guess people asked for a villain faction and not some pseudo rp bs.
I can understand the desire to avoid villain play (split player base and breaking apart resources that are already tightly budgeted leading to one side or the other feeling left out). So the most I would ever personally hope for is an occasional mission or arc where you get to play as one of your Nemesis. During the mission(s) you would be subject to what amounts to a become power with the appropriate power set you selected for them (so it would all be pre-selected) and the ability to summon the pre-chosen minion type as pets, you would have some villainous goals to achieve, and then at some point it would switch back over to your hero who now has to thwart the evil scheme that had been put into play...
Speaking of villains, I'm feeling smugly evil helping along of piece of 2+ year necromancy.
Secondly, since anti-heroes aren't everyone's cup of tea, have you considered a different flavour?
The anti-villain?
A villain, with villanious goals, but he intends to do them through heroic measures.
As seen with Ragnarook here?
(Caution: last three panels potentially NSFW, due to language)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'm just going to copy/paste some ideas I wrote about what sort of things I would like to see in a Heroes vs. Villains game recently (below).
In regards to the supposed impossibility of proper villain content/missions on the basis that you wouldn't be able to do exactly what your character would do in accordance to their background details and such... I have yet to do that with a single Hero character I have. They all have specific backgrounds of how they became heroes and what type of villain organizations or groups they would go after and attempt to take down and how (some using FAR harsher methods than would be appropriate/possible in this game's cartoony atmosphere), yet they're still limited to whatever missions this game provide.
NO ONE here (or any other MMO) plays missions custom tailored to their character's backgrounds (with the sole possible exception of Foundry/UGC missions, and even then it would be unlikely given that you would have to make your own missions for you to play yourself already knowing what happens, which would be lame, and you can't rely on someone else writing them for you and doing it properly). It hasn't stopped the creation of MMOs so far. And no, I don't believe that it is worse with Villains than heroes people are (apparently) willing to compromise with their heroes, yet villains are somehow the thing they can't compromise on before calling the attempt a complete failure.
My ideal of Heroes vs. Villains would include:
- Shared world content: Heroes and Villains would reside and do missions on the same areas rather than be segregated to their own sections (as in CoX).
- Reputation System: Characters would start out as Heroes or Villains (or perhaps make this choice in the tutorial) but be able to make choices during their missions and when interacting with NPCs that could affect their reputation and eventually change their faction from one to the other. Contacts will give characters different dialog options and missions depending on their Reputation and current affiliation.
NPCs could also be hostile or non-hostile depending on the character's affiliation, but villains could get an option to attack "evil" NPCs--making that NPC group hostile to them for a given amount of time. Heroes could get a similar option to attack or rob civilians to alter their Reputations.
- Shared Mission Contacts: Some contacts would be available to both Heroes and Villains, but would give different missions to each. Some could be informants that provide authorities with information about the criminal world, but may also offer leads to Villains about potential crime. Others could be potential victims--someone that the Heroes could have to save, or the Villains kidnap or harm, etc.
- Exclusive Mission Contacts: Some contacts could be specific to Heroes or Villains and offer missions to just one faction and may refuse to talk (or even be hostile) to characters based on their faction.
- Open World PvP: There would be a an option to engage in open world PvP through some sort of flagging system or by jumping to PvP specific instances.
- Open World PvP Objectives: There could be key locations scattered across the map that the Heroes could "secure" and the Villains could "capture" to earn or exploit for resources or special rewards, including special loot, achievements and buffs (similar to World vs World PvP in GW2).
- Villain Mission Objectives: Villains should start out as a new "big bad" that has come to town and is trying to make a name for themselves rather than being limited to playing errant boys to the real criminal organizations. Some missions could be jobs for criminal organizations, since this could be appropriate to their role and they do happen from time to time (particularly at lower levels and could be appropriate to assassins and similar types, who normally offer their services to other criminals), but there should also be missions that focus on characters finding a score for themselves rather than for some big boss.
They could receive some leads from street informants about a new shipment to a warehouse, a bank that's about to recieve a big delivery or a museum hosting a rare exhibit of an ancient artifact rumored to have mystical power. The villain would then steal them for themselves. They could also get into confrontations with criminal gangs or villain organizations about territory, or even have to compete with them when stealing something.
Wanna be a villian? Just figure out one of those highly exploitative PvP builds, then challenge people to duels and que for hero games. You'll be a villian soon enough.
The smart move would be to create a quality villain experience and charge an extra monthly fee to use it.
The lower level content would include doing "jobs" for the various MC gangs. After level 15, the villain could have the option of working for the Canadian rebels, VIPER, DEMON, or any of the criminal factions.
You know its funny....they tried this with city of heros...and people just didnt like playing as a villain...the villain only areas where so empty.....
thats probably a very good reason why they didnt do it here.
Its not that people dont like villains its just they like being a hero better.
^This and the fact that they can't seem to do villains correctly. In CoV your "villain" still played like a hero because you were still taking down other villains. The only major difference was the look of the city you started in (darker, polluted, etc.). The only game I've seen where being "bad" was done fairly well was SWTOR.
Hate to bump an old thread but I have the same question as the OP. Why can't we play as villains? I had far more fun playing CoV than CoH for this reason. I'm kinda surprised that an expansion to allow for villain er nemesis play hasn't been released.
You are playing a villain. At least, necromancy is usually thought of as evil, and here you've raised a thread that's been dead for almost two years...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hate to bump an old thread but I have the same question as the OP. Why can't we play as villains? I had far more fun playing CoV than CoH for this reason. I'm kinda surprised that an expansion to allow for villain er nemesis play hasn't been released.
1. go to the patch notes under super news and read through what ours are like for the last year.
2. go to the startrek forums and read theirs.
3. go to Neverwinter and read theirs.
4. those 2 are in the California office, start trek had 50 devs working on it, beginning of last year before hirings in March.
we have 12 who are in Seattle.
does this give you an idea of this games importance to Cryptic.
Hate to bump an old thread but I have the same question as the OP. Why can't we play as villains? I had far more fun playing CoV than CoH for this reason. I'm kinda surprised that an expansion to allow for villain er nemesis play hasn't been released.
Comments
I'm beginning to think you have a crush on me Ayla
It DID NOT make ppl sick the point is I and this other fellow here are just two of many many many MANY satisfied players who played villians.. what ? You are saying no one likes to play the badguyz? Cmon man we know thats not the case
I agree with this. +1
And some will say that after DCUO hits and its version of world pvp and players get used to diametrically-opposed Hero vs Villain missions re: an objective - i think other MMOs will come around to trying to match that.
I'm not saying DCUO will be better as a game, far from it. I do think CO will eventually be able to match it or better it in it's lifetime.
Flagged would be good Mess, as would it being endgame with it reserved for the 40+ level security clearance. That would work for Heroes (with the pve game safe and immune) with younger recruits getting the system message (outside say...a 3 level range: ie 37+) ' you are not authorised to engage the Alpha level threat:[target]' - enforcements are on the way !' - (and a similiar RP themed one for Villains).
World PvP or large instances with diametrically opposed goals. Bankjobs, Museum thefts, street rampages, destruction of (and defence of) city landmarks and property.
The consequences being an absolute failure to emulate the very CORE of being a villian: doing what you want when you want, regardless of law or custom? Supervilliany is about a level of freedom that this engine can't do on its best day.
You think picking up a contact's laundry makes a mockery of heroism (no kidding, that quest exists in CO, though it's mostly funny)? Try asking a super villian to do that and realize step one would be you should be able to KILL your stupid contacts...
I think the chef should be able to critique his own creation. And trying to force them to make something that they think is GARBAGE is not going to work. What I am saying is that even if you could force Cryptic to repeat their mistake, that forcing someone to make a mistake might not bear loving fruit.
In short CoV was garbage and made people sick from the words of the CREATOR. What you, one consumer, have to say is moot compared to that.
Let me ask you a question... what prevents you from playing a villain then, hmm? Nothing! You can RP all you want. there is already many demons and anti-heroes running around. surely a few villains won't change things much
I'm getting around to sending a whistleblower email to the ESRB you should know. Beyond that I have to at least ponder the possibility of canceling my subscription as previously stated.
And it's not exactly a crush. What's that other thing? You know sort of like that thing between Hawaiians and the Japanese during WWII. That sort of thing?
But what did you name your new prostitute themed "hero"? Lady Knee-Scab?
Yea if DCOU dose it well i can see it atleast being considered both here and in CoX and also for any future superhero based MMOs. It just makes sence from a comic point of veiw heroes and villians don't live in citys or countries miles apart and only battle from time to time (well unless your names doom or magneto) they live within the same space and when they meet they tend to come to blows.
I think it should be open again think of the early X-men story they were still students learning to use there powers but would take on more experience villains, same for spider man, robin, the teen titans every hero and by extension villain has to start some where if CO did choose to implement a open PvP system (with flags) i think it would be important to blur the line between PC and NPC sure its never going to be perfect but if there was a sprinkling of individual NPC that were powerful it could serve to balance things. same would go for law enforcement have them react to the villains even calling in reinforcements.
those would all be great as a villian you could brake into the bank which would then flag the bank as being robbed then a hero could enter the bank to stop you.
Well they don't respond to emails so don't hold your breth and even if they did what are tehy going to do?
Infatuation? Lust?
No prostitute themed heros onmy accoun't you must be thinking of some one else
Best case scenario they would strong arm Cryptic into removing the offending content or risk having the having the ESRB disallow Cryptic to use their rating.
I was going more for hatred.
So after all of that you aren't even going to use the outfits?
Love it. Other than determining morality, this is all existing tech. Make Thundrax write it an I'll give Cryptic 40 bucks and paypal Thundrax another $50 directly.
Just as a bit of cultural literacy, look up Manzanar.
It was a WWII concentration camp.
In California.
THank you. Very well put.
Oh never new that
While I can understand that scantily clad women can offend some it is considered a staple in the comic book hero genre. I think I might actually buy some C-Points just so I can get the new Millennium costume pack; there are some wonderful new designs in there for both sexes.
"remove our rating because you have breached the no straps rule"
nah can't see it happening maybe if they had added full blown red light district then yea but can't see it happening over the tops.
Ah i understand with such extream emotions its easy for you to mistake extream love as hatred. Don't worry just follow your hart
Oh i used them i just dont have any prostituet charachters charachters.
Then they wouldn't have been asked to remove them in the first place.
I'd rather see yours in a Temple of Doom style.
"Oh I flew in an airplane. But I didn't leave the ground"
Would you two just get a room already ? :eek:
I have rules when it comes to necrophilia and the living dead plus I'm pretty sure the wife would object.
is this one of these ill show you mine if you show me yours gigs?
They do say the sole sores when in love. (zombiestill have soles right?)
Yes, you first.
Well, something they could do is set up cities or letting the villians take over alternate dimensions, or destroying nameless cities. just an idea.
But then you aren't really fulfilling *your* goals. What if my character's motivations involve ruling *this* dimension, or killing one of the named heroes? It just wouldn't be possible in an MMO environment. Even a sandbox game, created from the ground-up to permit villain play, couldn't truly permit villains to "destroy the world" or the like.
The most you could hope for would be to have a system where police/military/hero presence/civilians/etc were tied to various player's successes or failures. Even then, it'd have to mostly be cosmetic, as you wouldn't want players who started playing sooner to deny content or opportunities to newer players.
The most we could hope for would be something like "Enforcers Online", where we play as up-and-coming "signature villains" for existing villain groups. You would start as an unaffiliated character, and over the course of your adventures, you join up with one of the existing villain groups, and help further their interests. Maybe you could try to overthrow one of them later on, and the results of your efforts result in different interactions w/ said group. Your successes or failures would also result in a greater or lessened presence of said enemy group in the open world.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The problem ultimately comes down to the fact that the villain can't win. If they achieve their goals there's nothing left to do...
Villains are driven by a motivation, a goal, regardless of whether it's to steal a billion dollars and retire or take over the world. If you win as a villain, then what? You become management. Today I'll buy a yacht. Best send a unit to deal with that rebellion in Minnesota...
If the heroes win, justice is served, another fight looms. If the villains win, game over...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Say to yourself, what game mechanics are there that allow me to do harm to the NPC citizens who I cannot directly target? There is a way, but I'm not saying here.
Secondly, since anti-heroes aren't everyone's cup of tea, have you considered a different flavour?
The anti-villain?
A villain, with villanious goals, but he intends to do them through heroic measures.
"I will TAKE OVER THE WORRLD!!! By making myself as the prime protector of the human race, and make them increasingly more dependant on my powers, then one day... I stop helping, and watch as they perish, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
It's all in how you roleplay it.
Saving a kitten from a tree is just the first stepping stone to your total dominion of all things.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
LOL, 100% win.
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I guess people asked for a villain faction and not some pseudo rp bs.
Speaking of villains, I'm feeling smugly evil helping along of piece of 2+ year necromancy.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." (Matthew 5:3)
Well, unless you embrace that 'pseudo rp bs' instead of your sword - bad idea by the way - there'll be only Heaven, no Hell for you. Sorry, brah.
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
(Caution: last three panels potentially NSFW, due to language)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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In regards to the supposed impossibility of proper villain content/missions on the basis that you wouldn't be able to do exactly what your character would do in accordance to their background details and such... I have yet to do that with a single Hero character I have. They all have specific backgrounds of how they became heroes and what type of villain organizations or groups they would go after and attempt to take down and how (some using FAR harsher methods than would be appropriate/possible in this game's cartoony atmosphere), yet they're still limited to whatever missions this game provide.
NO ONE here (or any other MMO) plays missions custom tailored to their character's backgrounds (with the sole possible exception of Foundry/UGC missions, and even then it would be unlikely given that you would have to make your own missions for you to play yourself already knowing what happens, which would be lame, and you can't rely on someone else writing them for you and doing it properly). It hasn't stopped the creation of MMOs so far. And no, I don't believe that it is worse with Villains than heroes people are (apparently) willing to compromise with their heroes, yet villains are somehow the thing they can't compromise on before calling the attempt a complete failure.
My ideal of Heroes vs. Villains would include:
- Shared world content: Heroes and Villains would reside and do missions on the same areas rather than be segregated to their own sections (as in CoX).
- Reputation System: Characters would start out as Heroes or Villains (or perhaps make this choice in the tutorial) but be able to make choices during their missions and when interacting with NPCs that could affect their reputation and eventually change their faction from one to the other. Contacts will give characters different dialog options and missions depending on their Reputation and current affiliation.
NPCs could also be hostile or non-hostile depending on the character's affiliation, but villains could get an option to attack "evil" NPCs--making that NPC group hostile to them for a given amount of time. Heroes could get a similar option to attack or rob civilians to alter their Reputations.
- Shared Mission Contacts: Some contacts would be available to both Heroes and Villains, but would give different missions to each. Some could be informants that provide authorities with information about the criminal world, but may also offer leads to Villains about potential crime. Others could be potential victims--someone that the Heroes could have to save, or the Villains kidnap or harm, etc.
- Exclusive Mission Contacts: Some contacts could be specific to Heroes or Villains and offer missions to just one faction and may refuse to talk (or even be hostile) to characters based on their faction.
- Open World PvP: There would be a an option to engage in open world PvP through some sort of flagging system or by jumping to PvP specific instances.
- Open World PvP Objectives: There could be key locations scattered across the map that the Heroes could "secure" and the Villains could "capture" to earn or exploit for resources or special rewards, including special loot, achievements and buffs (similar to World vs World PvP in GW2).
- Villain Mission Objectives: Villains should start out as a new "big bad" that has come to town and is trying to make a name for themselves rather than being limited to playing errant boys to the real criminal organizations. Some missions could be jobs for criminal organizations, since this could be appropriate to their role and they do happen from time to time (particularly at lower levels and could be appropriate to assassins and similar types, who normally offer their services to other criminals), but there should also be missions that focus on characters finding a score for themselves rather than for some big boss.
They could receive some leads from street informants about a new shipment to a warehouse, a bank that's about to recieve a big delivery or a museum hosting a rare exhibit of an ancient artifact rumored to have mystical power. The villain would then steal them for themselves. They could also get into confrontations with criminal gangs or villain organizations about territory, or even have to compete with them when stealing something.
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Seconded.
(thirded?)
*is being serious*(few if any would show up last time I tried months ago)
That's not a rebellion. That's just a kegger.
*lives in Minnesota*
The lower level content would include doing "jobs" for the various MC gangs. After level 15, the villain could have the option of working for the Canadian rebels, VIPER, DEMON, or any of the criminal factions.
^This and the fact that they can't seem to do villains correctly. In CoV your "villain" still played like a hero because you were still taking down other villains. The only major difference was the look of the city you started in (darker, polluted, etc.). The only game I've seen where being "bad" was done fairly well was SWTOR.
Even when they do villian right, its wrong.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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1. go to the patch notes under super news and read through what ours are like for the last year.
2. go to the startrek forums and read theirs.
3. go to Neverwinter and read theirs.
4. those 2 are in the California office, start trek had 50 devs working on it, beginning of last year before hirings in March.
we have 12 who are in Seattle.
does this give you an idea of this games importance to Cryptic.
Champions is a superhero game as is the PnP game.
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Because the devs hate necroposters.