Ok so now I finally know that Dr. D is still around, and so is Shadow Destroyer(Blegh). So if Shadow Destroyer is the evil defender...what is the multifarian version of Doctor Destroyer? Is he the Defender of multifarian?
Ok so now I finally know that Dr. D is still around, and so is Shadow Destroyer(Blegh). So if Shadow Destroyer is the evil defender...what is the multifarian version of Doctor Destroyer? Is he the Defender of multifarian?
There is no mention of the Doctor in the multifarian dimension.
If Doom has some time to plan or foresee it... Doom.
If not... Thanos.
Doom is great because he's 'the' Mastermind to me in Marvel. An my favourite Supervillain (and sometimes hero )
However he's been overpowered several times. He just always has a few trump cards to ensure survival.
No. That's Shadow Destroyer. In fact if you read the actual entry it says it's unusual considering the design of the armor and the new powers he is weilding.
The picture of the guy in the entrance of the Destroyer lair? That was Albert Zerstoiten's last known costume (ie. his 5th edition outfit).
Well, his last known costume in CO would be the one that was seen inside the factory. Remember, in CO, he disappeared right after the destruction of Detroit and hasn't reappeared since. The use of that artwork for the entrance to Destroyer's factory I have always found to be a little off.
Well, his last known costume in CO would be the one that was seen inside the factory. Remember, in CO, he disappeared right after the destruction of Detroit and hasn't reappeared since. The use of that artwork for the entrance to Destroyer's factory I have always found to be a little off.
It's a bit of a continuity issue, an artifact of Cryptic ignoring or downplaying Albert Zerstoiten's return in CU canon. I think we have to fan **** a wee bit and assume that Zerstoiten at some point in his career adopted the 5th edition outfit and wore it in public. This doesn't preclude wearing his 4th edition outfit at the battle of Detroit, but he would have been recognized as having switched his costumes back and forth a few times in his career. They certainly changed over the course of the PnP game, as Book of the Destroyer ably demonstrates. For Albert's 4th edition look:
Yeah, Resistance basically put this to rest once and for all. I think they meant for us to go "Oh crap, he's back" but I was more "Yay! Dr. Destroyer!"
I'd be interested in hearing the perspective of the Cryptic Studios devs as to what they were trying to accomplish by introducing Shadow Destroyer, that they felt they couldn't with the original Dr. D.
I'd be interested in hearing the perspective of the Cryptic Studios devs as to what they were trying to accomplish by introducing Shadow Destroyer, that they felt they couldn't with the original Dr. D.
I think they just wanted an alternate universe version of the Champions themselves, in much the same way that they created the Praetorians in City of Heroes.
Ok so now I finally know that Dr. D is still around, and so is Shadow Destroyer(Blegh). So if Shadow Destroyer is the evil defender...what is the multifarian version of Doctor Destroyer? Is he the Defender of multifarian?
I've not finished resistance so perhaps I'm gonna seem real ignorant here, but I figured for sure "the old man" grizz mentioned would be the Multifarian version of doc destroyer
I've not finished resistance so perhaps I'm gonna seem real ignorant here, but I figured for sure "the old man" grizz mentioned would be the Multifarian version of doc destroyer
Alright, what is to follow is basic spoiler info from what I know;
Albert Zoisterton, or "The Old Man", that you free in Resistance is the real Dr. Destroyer. No, he is not Multifarian Destroyer, that man was actually killed according to the timeline. In fact, it was because of that Destroyer that Multifarian Harmon, aka Citizen Harmon or Shadow Destroyer, got his inspiration and became a new Destroyer.
Dr. Destroyer was actually slated to return much sooner, but when Shadow Destroyer made his appearance and claiming to be THE Destroyer, well, Dr. Destroyer's ego sort of got in the way. He waited and plotted in the background and finally tracked him down and decided to attack Shadow Destroyer in his home world. However, that battle didn't go well and he was defeated and captured, and that is how Shadow Destroyer gained control of the mass of Destroid armies and factories.
So in short, the Dr. Destroyer you free is the REAL Dr. Destroyer. Albert Zerstoiten. Is the maniacal mad genius that leveled Detroit, and it is only a matter of time before his next plot will come forth now that he has been freed.
You know, one thing that has me curious. Even though Dr. Destroyer is like the greatest scientific genius of all time, at least according to him, he's nearly 100 years old. Any explanation of how he is still alive, or is it explained as sheer will or some scientific drug he creates or something else?
Exactly, which is why he almost never takes off his armor. Outside of it he looks like a very healthy but still elderly white male.
Zerstoiten's greatest secret, which almost no-one else in the world knows, is that
his exceptional genetics, which are responsible for his genius, also make him unsuitable for any of the antigeria or cloning procedures he's developed. The life-support systems in his armor slow his aging, but can't stop it. He's desperately searching for a way around this problem, but if he can't find one he won't be around very much longer.
Years ago I contributed a "plot seed" to a Champions PnP book, suggesting that Dr. Destroyer could start a war with Dr. Yin Wu if he learns the Chinese sorceror is immortal, to force from him the secret of the Pill of Immortality. I liked the image of ultratech robots slugging it out with Chinese supernatural monsters. PCs could be drawn into the middle of the conflict to prevent the destruction of Chinatown, and perhaps be recruited by Yin Wu himself in order to prevent an immortal Destroyer.
The climax of the scenario would be protecting Yin Wu's castle in China from Destroyer's assault. I also suggested it would make an interesting complication if the sorceror himself leaked knowledge of the Pill of Immortality to Dr. Destroyer, to prompt Destroyer to invade China to get to him; thus weakening the Chinese regime enough for Yin Wu to overthrow them and declare himself Emperor.
Years ago I contributed a "plot seed" to a Champions PnP book, suggesting that Dr. Destroyer could start a war with Dr. Yin Wu if he learns the Chinese sorceror is immortal, to force from him the secret of the Pill of Immortality. I liked the image of ultratech robots slugging it out with Chinese supernatural monsters. PCs could be drawn into the middle of the conflict to prevent the destruction of Chinatown, and perhaps be recruited by Yin Wu himself in order to prevent an immortal Destroyer.
The climax of the scenario would be protecting Yin Wu's castle in China from Destroyer's assault. I also suggested it would make an interesting complication if the sorceror himself leaked knowledge of the Pill of Immortality to Dr. Destroyer, to prompt Destroyer to invade China to get to him; thus weakening the Chinese regime enough for Yin Wu to overthrow them and declare himself Emperor.
funny you mentioned that as I had JUST read that section of the book.
I admit to being VERY curious how destroy's mortality will be handled eventually. according to book of the destroyer, he's got 9 years before his health starts failing I can only figure that he's gonna launch some sort of last ditch world conquest plot fairly soon...
I admit to being VERY curious how destroy's mortality will be handled eventually. according to book of the destroyer, he's got 9 years before his health starts failing I can only figure that he's gonna launch some sort of last ditch world conquest plot fairly soon...
You can actually find out about that in Galactic Champions -- though in the Cryptic Era I suppose it's possible there might be a bit o' a retcon eventually.
You can actually find out about that in Galactic Champions -- though in the Cryptic Era I suppose it's possible there might be a bit o' a retcon eventually.
haveing just read it you're gonna have to retcon it in 10 years anyway Steve,
How far fetched would it be for Dr. D to develop time travel tech and travel to the future for the knowledge to help treat his aging issues? There have been time traveling people in Champions lore before.
How far fetched would it be for Dr. D to develop time travel tech and travel to the future for the knowledge to help treat his aging issues? There have been time traveling people in Champions lore before.
If our favourite blender wearing inventor can toss a time machine together, the Great Destroyer should be able to do it without any trouble.
It mentions in Book Of The Destroyer that while Dr. D would like to get his hands on Captain Chronos's obviously-advanced technology to study, he's confident he could invent a time-travel device himself if he wanted to.
This idea would be a great pretext to send PCs on a time-travel adventure. Trying to stop Destroyer they're accidentally drawn into his machine and follow him to the Thirtieth Century and the universe of Galactic Champions! Now that would make a helluva comic series or adventure pack! :cool:
It mentions in Book Of The Destroyer that while Dr. D would like to get his hands on Captain Chronos's obviously-advanced technology to study, he's confident he could invent a time-travel device himself if he wanted to.
This idea would be a great pretext to send PCs on a time-travel adventure. Trying to stop Destroyer they're accidentally drawn into his machine and follow him to the Thirtieth Century and the universe of Galactic Champions! Now that would make a helluva comic series or adventure pack! :cool:
agreed! it'd offer up a chance to use part of the champs IP that would otherwise be hard to use
Hello, I haven't read the books of the Champions, but I can't understand if Dr. D (Albert Z.) died or travelled to Multifaria due a space time distortion created by his Orbital Cannon. So both destroyers fought and eventually Citizen Harmon defeat Albert Z. or am I wrong? Please explain me what happend after the battle of Detroit.
At the conclusion of the Battle of Detroit in 1992, Dr. Destroyer (the original, Albert Zerstoiten, whom I'll refer to as "Dr. Destroyer" for purposes of this discussion) teleported away to one of his hidden bases, while leaving evidence behind that led the world to believe he died. Dr. Destroyer spent a decade in seclusion refining his weapons and technology, intending to return to the world more powerful than ever. Just as he was about to launch his reappearance in 2002, a villain claiming to be Dr. Destroyer ("Citizen Harmon") showed up on Champions Earth. Destroyer covertly studied his doppleganger, eventually discovering the dimension he came from. In 2009
Dr. D travelled to the Multifarian and attacked Citizen Harmon, but underestimated his opponent and was defeated and imprisoned. Harmon used control codes from the Doctor's captured armor to access some of his facilities and employ some of his robots and vehicles. As a result of the events in "Resistance," Dr. Destroyer escaped his imprisonment and confronted and defeated Citizen Harmon.
Now we're all just waiting to see what happens when the true Destroyer announces his return.
Regarding a more continuity question: is Book of the Destroyer considered a 5th edition book or does it stand in the 6th edition?
Book Of The Destroyer was written for the Fifth Edition of HERO System, and is technically a 5E book continuity-wise, although AFAICT everything in it about Destroyer up until 2002 still applies to 6E continuity. In BOTD Steve Long had Dr. D make his public return in that year because other 5E books referred to his activities after that date, and Steve didn't want to contradict and confuse the timeline for people who had those books. In BOTD he makes Shadow Destroyer/Citizen Harmon's appearance a more recent event.
The Sixth Edition Champions Universe sourcebook completely conforms to the timeline established by Champions Online regarding the two Destroyers.
Book Of The Destroyer was written for the Fifth Edition of HERO System, and is technically a 5E book continuity-wise, although AFAICT everything in it about Destroyer up until 2002 still applies to 6E continuity. In BOTD Steve Long had Dr. D make his public return in that year because other 5E books referred to his activities after that date, and Steve didn't want to contradict and confuse the timeline for people who had those books. In BOTD he makes Shadow Destroyer/Citizen Harmon's appearance a more recent event.
The Sixth Edition Champions Universe sourcebook completely conforms to the timeline established by Champions Online regarding the two Destroyers.
Thanks for the help.One more quick question(hoping not to diverge attention on the thread's basic topic): Is Champions Universe the only book,currently, that counts as a part of the 6th edition volumes?
Thanks for the help.One more quick question(hoping not to diverge attention on the thread's basic topic): Is Champions Universe the only book,currently, that counts as a part of the 6th edition volumes?
Definitely not. Besides the rulebooks, and books full of prebuilt superpowers, supertech, and the like, volumes that are written for Sixth Edition and firmly part of current Champions Universe continuity include the Champions genre book, of which a fraction is devoted to describing the superteam of that name; the Champions Villains trilogy, detailing literally hundreds of canon supervillains; Champions Beyond describing CU outer space and its inhabitants; and the soon-to-be-released Book Of The Empress detailing the vast interdimensional empire of Istvatha V'han.
However, with a few exceptions Champions Online is very firmly based on CU continuity established by Fifth Edition, so at least 90% of what was written for 5E is still accurate "lore-wise."
Definitely not. Besides the rulebooks, and books full of prebuilt superpowers, supertech, and the like, volumes that are written for Sixth Edition and firmly part of current Champions Universe continuity include the Champions genre book, of which a fraction is devoted to describing the superteam of that name; the Champions Villains trilogy, detailing literally hundreds of canon supervillains; Champions Beyond describing CU outer space and its inhabitants; and the soon-to-be-released Book Of The Empress detailing the vast interdimensional empire of Istvatha V'han.
However, with a few exceptions Champions Online is very firmly based on CU continuity established by Fifth Edition, so at least 90% of what was written for 5E is still accurate "lore-wise."
It makes me sad to think Vanguard and so many others died and Dr.D still lurks and waits fro the moment to strike
Especially since, according to Book Of The Destroyer,
the entire asteroid scheme and destruction of Detroit was set up by Destroyer as a ruse just to fake his death. I really disagreed with that choice by Steve Long -- IMO it cheapens all those deaths and the heroes' sacrifice.
And yes, I'm aware of the irony of moral outrage over a completely fictional event.
Actually LL, that whole point drives home the completely evil nature of Dr. Destroyer. It was a cheap tactic, and it worked. He even got to remove a few pesky heroes in the process. So in all it was an intentional ruse to make himself disappear so he could have time and quiet to perfect his plans, that came out with bonuses for him. It doesn't cheapen it, IMO, it just drives home the point how diabolical and devious he truly is.
Fair enough. For my part, I just feel that with so many lives lost, and so many heroes who sacrificed themselves, their deaths would have had more meaning if they'd actually stopped a plot that Dr. D really wanted to succeed.
It seemed to me like Steve Long went a little too Jim Starlin/Thanos on that one. He wanted Destroyer to be perfect.
*Cries* I' will not...sob... be happy until Dr. Ka, or Caliburn, or Wtichcraft or Dr.Black or White finds some weird voodooo whozywhutzit and brings Vanguard back from the dead ...waaaah
I may be a Bat-fan, but even reading about anything close to a "Superman...he be dead...fo reals" breaks my dark little heart
In all seriousness though. Doc D is one bad *****.
Fair enough. For my part, I just feel that with so many lives lost, and so many heroes who sacrificed themselves, their deaths would have had more meaning if they'd actually stopped a plot that Dr. D really wanted to succeed.
It seemed to me like Steve Long went a little too Jim Starlin/Thanos on that one. He wanted Destroyer to be perfect.
*Cries* I' will not...sob... be happy until Dr. Ka, or Caliburn, or Wtichcraft or Dr.Black or White finds some weird voodooo whozywhutzit and brings Vanguard back from the dead ...waaaah
I may be a Bat-fan, but even reading about anything close to a "Superman...he be dead...fo reals" breaks my dark little heart
His death was worthy of Superman, though. A great note to go out on.
In all seriousness though. Doc D is one bad *****.
That he is. For all his pretense of honor and nobility, and claims the world will be better under his rule... Albert Zerstoiten is a cruel, selfish, treacherous, greedy, ruthless SOB who cares nothing for anyone or anything but himself, and holds himself superior to all other beings in existence. It's truly unfortunate that he has the power and genius to back up his attitude.
Comments
There is no mention of the Doctor in the multifarian dimension.
If Doom has some time to plan or foresee it... Doom.
If not... Thanos.
Doom is great because he's 'the' Mastermind to me in Marvel. An my favourite Supervillain (and sometimes hero
However he's been overpowered several times. He just always has a few trump cards to ensure survival.
Doom shall not be denied!
Btw what does this Shadow Destroyer look like?
The guy in the wallpaper on the right? Or in the banner? Or the Dr. Destroyer shown in the Dr. Destroyer profile on the villain profiles?
The picture of the guy in the entrance of the Destroyer lair? That was Albert Zerstoiten's last known costume (ie. his 5th edition outfit).
Edit:
As seen here:
https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=232631
Well, his last known costume in CO would be the one that was seen inside the factory. Remember, in CO, he disappeared right after the destruction of Detroit and hasn't reappeared since. The use of that artwork for the entrance to Destroyer's factory I have always found to be a little off.
It's a bit of a continuity issue, an artifact of Cryptic ignoring or downplaying Albert Zerstoiten's return in CU canon. I think we have to fan **** a wee bit and assume that Zerstoiten at some point in his career adopted the 5th edition outfit and wore it in public. This doesn't preclude wearing his 4th edition outfit at the battle of Detroit, but he would have been recognized as having switched his costumes back and forth a few times in his career. They certainly changed over the course of the PnP game, as Book of the Destroyer ably demonstrates. For Albert's 4th edition look:
http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/champions4.htm
I think they just wanted an alternate universe version of the Champions themselves, in much the same way that they created the Praetorians in City of Heroes.
I've not finished resistance so perhaps I'm gonna seem real ignorant here, but I figured for sure "the old man" grizz mentioned would be the Multifarian version of doc destroyer
Alright, what is to follow is basic spoiler info from what I know;
Dr. Destroyer was actually slated to return much sooner, but when Shadow Destroyer made his appearance and claiming to be THE Destroyer, well, Dr. Destroyer's ego sort of got in the way. He waited and plotted in the background and finally tracked him down and decided to attack Shadow Destroyer in his home world. However, that battle didn't go well and he was defeated and captured, and that is how Shadow Destroyer gained control of the mass of Destroid armies and factories.
So in short, the Dr. Destroyer you free is the REAL Dr. Destroyer. Albert Zerstoiten. Is the maniacal mad genius that leveled Detroit, and it is only a matter of time before his next plot will come forth now that he has been freed.
If I remember the quote, it's something like "Every second spent outside his armor is a second of normal aging, and a second to be avoided."
Zerstoiten's greatest secret, which almost no-one else in the world knows, is that
The climax of the scenario would be protecting Yin Wu's castle in China from Destroyer's assault. I also suggested it would make an interesting complication if the sorceror himself leaked knowledge of the Pill of Immortality to Dr. Destroyer, to prompt Destroyer to invade China to get to him; thus weakening the Chinese regime enough for Yin Wu to overthrow them and declare himself Emperor.
funny you mentioned that as I had JUST read that section of the book.
I admit to being VERY curious how destroy's mortality will be handled eventually. according to book of the destroyer, he's got 9 years before his health starts failing I can only figure that he's gonna launch some sort of last ditch world conquest plot fairly soon...
You can actually find out about that in Galactic Champions -- though in the Cryptic Era I suppose it's possible there might be a bit o' a retcon eventually.
Sad to hear.
But one more book to pick up on the next paycheck.
haveing just read it you're gonna have to retcon it in 10 years anyway Steve,
This idea would be a great pretext to send PCs on a time-travel adventure. Trying to stop Destroyer they're accidentally drawn into his machine and follow him to the Thirtieth Century and the universe of Galactic Champions! Now that would make a helluva comic series or adventure pack! :cool:
agreed! it'd offer up a chance to use part of the champs IP that would otherwise be hard to use
Now we're all just waiting to see what happens when the true Destroyer announces his return.
Book Of The Destroyer was written for the Fifth Edition of HERO System, and is technically a 5E book continuity-wise, although AFAICT everything in it about Destroyer up until 2002 still applies to 6E continuity. In BOTD Steve Long had Dr. D make his public return in that year because other 5E books referred to his activities after that date, and Steve didn't want to contradict and confuse the timeline for people who had those books. In BOTD he makes Shadow Destroyer/Citizen Harmon's appearance a more recent event.
The Sixth Edition Champions Universe sourcebook completely conforms to the timeline established by Champions Online regarding the two Destroyers.
Thanks for the help.One more quick question(hoping not to diverge attention on the thread's basic topic): Is Champions Universe the only book,currently, that counts as a part of the 6th edition volumes?
Definitely not.
However, with a few exceptions Champions Online is very firmly based on CU continuity established by Fifth Edition, so at least 90% of what was written for 5E is still accurate "lore-wise."
It makes me sad to think Vanguard and so many others died and Dr.D still lurks and waits fro the moment to strike
There was no corpse. Of course he escaped.
Hate to be morbid about this, but in Vanguard's case, there is no corpse because it burned up on re-entry.
I think he was talking about Destroyer not Vanguard.
Especially since, according to Book Of The Destroyer,
And yes, I'm aware of the irony of moral outrage over a completely fictional event.
It seemed to me like Steve Long went a little too Jim Starlin/Thanos on that one. He wanted Destroyer to be perfect.
I may be a Bat-fan, but even reading about anything close to a "Superman...he be dead...fo reals" breaks my dark little heart
In all seriousness though. Doc D is one bad *****.
I tend to agree.
His death was worthy of Superman, though. A great note to go out on.
That he is. For all his pretense of honor and nobility, and claims the world will be better under his rule... Albert Zerstoiten is a cruel, selfish, treacherous, greedy, ruthless SOB who cares nothing for anyone or anything but himself, and holds himself superior to all other beings in existence. It's truly unfortunate that he has the power and genius to back up his attitude.