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What is Dr. Destroyer's place in 6th edition?
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With Dr. Destroyer being considered dead and Shadow Destroyer taking his place in Champions Online, will the more iconic Dr. Destroyer still have a place in future books?
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Of course, villains never really die.
Though Defender is as much an egomaniac as Destroyer, Destroyer's ego far surpasses that of Defenders, especially considering what happened at the end of the Vibora Crisis.
All the ingame lore that I have read sets Shadow Destroyer up as a different person and mirrors the info set up about Shadow Destroyer in the Book of the Destroyer (which used info and artwork from Cryptic about Shadow D).
Black Talon actually implied it was the same man but he's now pretty much thrown his supporters off. He didn't say he was a different person as he was just different now. Then tehre are teh PSI people that felt it was Destroyer, and then of course is Destroyer's speach when fighitng him in NemCon and of coruse the end of the Vibora Crisis. I don't think it's a different person, but the same person who found a new source of pwoer.
The fellow whose family has worked for Destroyer for generations that you meet out by Stronghold pretty clearly states that the Dr. Destroyer that exists in the current Champions universe is not the Destroyer that he knew of before. The current Dr. Destroyer is James Harmon from another dimension (also explains why he has such an itch to make the actual James Harmon from our dimension miserable). Shadow Destroyer is the original Dr. Destroyer from our dimension, dead yet too evil even for hell.
Nevermind I actually looked at some fo the karkaradon lore I had to which was burried deep in other parts instead of wtih my Destroyer lore. But, that also puts forth another quandry and problem; The notes say there is still the false Destroyer, which means that Dr. Destroyer is not dead.
Hehe actually you mis-reading what I am saying; The notes are calling Shadow Destroyer the true Destroyer, and Dr. Destroyer the False Destroyer. It specifically states Dr. Destroyer being a master of science and machinery, versus Shadow Destroyer holding over the power of everything dark and evil specifically. It also refers to Dr. Destroyer in the present tense, not past tense, which means that Dr. Destroyer is not truly dead either, despite he was supposedly vaporized by his own weapon, but I think a credible eyewitness at ground zero of that event would be hard to corroborate in all events.
In fact, one of the things specifically stated was that the Karkaradon needed to beware the false Destroyer as well. The references in present tense, not past tense. So I think it's a little bit on the safer side to assume that Dr. Destroyer, himself, is not dead. Though he's not made his presence known yet.
Hmmm, I missed the false Destroyer stuff. That is good news. That means we might yet see Shadow Vs Dr.
Possibly.
Say...who wins in a throwdown between Dr. Doom and Thanos?
Generally Thanos.
D'uh
If Thanos appears to win it is because Doom Has Other Plans!! and Thanos Is But A ****!!
Who programmed this filter? Mary ****ING Poppins?
And yeah...Thanos vs Doom is a subject for KMC or ComicVine flamefests. Before we start whipping out lists of feats and invoking rules of bloodlust and PIS...let's just call it "too close to call".
I thought there was a lore bit that said that Dr. D teleported to a space station before the cannon touched down.
edit:
Well, according to the back story in the 5th edition Millennium City book, Destorier fought off everyone for about half an hour then shot himself with a space laser after the Sentinels demanded he surrender. The blast killing Crusher and Flechette II, and apparently himself when it struck his base. The book intentionally states "Seemingly" when describing Destroyers Death though I would contribute this being more to aid campaign writers/ Because if he's not certainly dead GMs can always have him pop out of the wood work for revenge.
Dr. Destroyers factory goes online and begins churning out Destroids. Though it is possible Shadow Destroyer may have activated the machines himself, I find it highly unlikely given Dr. Destroyer's extreme measures for safeguarding his own equipment as detailed in a VIPER report (VIPER themselves never being able to fully analyze any of Dr. Destroyer's technology because it self-destructs, as it were, if tampered with). But inside the factory there is the Destroid head that states that runs an error command but states a welcome for Dr. Destroyer.
The robotic clone of Dr. Destroyer in the factory pretty much made it clear that, despite he wasn't the real Dr. Destroyer, his master was still out there (reference to Dr. Destroyer?) and that he would soon be returning hence the factory work going on. Even one of his speaches says that his master (Dr. Destroyer?) has prepared for every eventuality. If that is the case then he must of been prepared to use his orbital laser cannon and have an escape plan.
Shadow Destroyer references Dr. Destroyer directly, telling his minions, the Karkaradon, to beware the false Destroyer. Giving Shadow Destroyers dimensional omnipotence, I'd find it highly unlikely he would just casually mention Dr. Destroyer unless he felt or knew he was alive. Of coruse, this could also just be Shadow Destroyer covering his bases just in-case someone posing as Dr. Detroyer try and trick the Karkaradon that he is the real Destroyer. But, I find that highly unlikely, as Shadow Destroyer is very vane and egotistical, not unlike Dr. Destroyer, and doubt would even make a reference to him if he felt he was dead. This also demonstrates that Shadow Destroyer feels that Dr. Destroyer is a threat to him.
Though this just might be the fact NPCs don't know as much as us players, they reference Shadow Destroyer as Dr. Destroyer several times throughout the Vibora Apocalypse. This most likely was an over-sight or just NPCs not being privy to OOC knowledge.
Where as Shadow Destroyer is just vane and egotistical, Dr. Destroyer is a genious and practially the smartest man alive. Barring that he is 93 by now (born in 1917), Dr. Destroyer would of had to of had an escape plan, even for something that was clearly aimed towards him. His orbital laser was obviously apart of his contingency plan, and there is stille vidence out there that despite Shadow Destroyer trying to lay claims to the legacy of Dr. Destroyer, the real Dr. Destroyer is out there, plotting and scheming perhaps, or getting ready to make his next move, as the reactivation of his robot factory may show.
A sudden and unexpected appearance would not suit him. No. Such would lack drama, staging, any sense of build up to a climactic finish. Shadow destroyer ? A tool chosen for this very purpose. To hint at the looming return of the greatest mind the world has ever known while simultaneously sowing confusion, doubt, and the greatest of all tools in the hands of the conqueror, despair.
Herr Zerstoiten, even before he transcended mortal limits to become Destroyer, had reached the epitome of the art of composition. He was the greatest musician in the world. Composer, director, master of a hundred instruments. Sculpture, painting, mastery of all of the arts was his.
Even now, sitting before a poished ebony grand piano, surrounded by samples of the work of other great artists, softly lit by a bare handful of candelabra, in a room with no mirrors, for even Destroyer cares not to face the ruin of his own features, He plays. His fingers caress the keys to craft order out of chaos. To make music out of mere sound. Perhaps this takes place on a floating island carefully cloaked from the prying eyes of a frightened world. Perhaps in a fortress whose lofty placement on the moon is meant to correlate to the home of the gods on Olympus, high above the concerns of lesser beings.
Either way, he is playing, and we are dancing.
To his tune.
You are right, when I reread it, inserting the phrase "Cheese Master" it does change the feel of it
Chronomancer is obviously a front for the real Dr. Destroyer.
Nah. Im pretty sure that Tumerboy is the real Dr D. His avatar has horns so he must be evil and he knows more details about the layout of the CO universe than just about anyone else. Just as a would be conqueror would from his extensive study of his target prior to the implementation of his master plan. Hes even twirled his moustache on the PTS.
He is from the Multifarian Earth, it is where different time periods intermingle. His family kept magical power by sacrificing their own family (usually a brother). He had no brothers, so he sacrificed his own brother. Then he worked on growing his powers. So he crafted his armor and tested himself against the superheros of his world.
One day, he was greeted by a man (Luthor Black) from another dimension who was seeking a book in order to gain power. Shadow helped him get it because he didn't want to use the book himself (since he would lose his soul in the process). After he helped him, he decided to follow the man back to his dimension and gain the power.
He did his research and found that in order to follow him he would need a lot of sacrifices. He decided to use Detroit as his target so he set a trap for superheros and then took out the city. That is when he ended up here. Of course time is funky in that dimension so Luthor Black visited in 1896, Dr. Destroyer took out Detroit in 92, and Shadow is Destroyer showing up now, even though it was only a couple months between Black visiting and the destruction of Detroit in Shadow Destroyer's dimension.
*runs away*
Nemesis? Who dat?
I keep saying this but no one believes me. The Crown Prince of Automations is clearly devious enough to transcend games, also I ran into him in Nemcon once.
Would be cool to see Destroyer vs. Shadow Destroyer with a massive battle between robots and shark dudes.
(*) see quests like Vex in the city and Invaders of the destroyers and Mega Destroyer in Open mission zones
I doubt this is the case. Many VIPEr reports confirm that attempting to tamper with Dr. Destroyer's tech results in a large explosion, which means most likely Shadow Destroyer can't manipulate Dr. Destroyr's robots. Furthermore, Shadow Destroyer, as I stated previously, has mentioned Dr. Destroyer by name, which implies that Dr. Destroyer is not dead. He calls him the False Destroyer.
You also realize that Raksasha and Gigaton were working on their own in the Crisis, Black Talon doesn't trust the person calling himself Destroyer (aka Shadow Destroyer) and most of Dr. Destroyer's actual living followers don't actually trust or believe that Shadow Destroyer is Dr. Destroyer. Also, I doubt Dr. Destroyer would actually leave the power of his robot creations in the hands of his men who could potentially turn on him. Dr. Destroyer is suppose to be an eccentric genious, and sharing his power is something I doubt he would even fathom. In fact, there is suppose to be no one smarter than Dr. Destroyer himself, so to imagine that he didn't have a plan to escape his own weapons is silly.
#2: Black Talon isn't a supervillain. He's one of many people using a powered-armored suit designed by Dr. D. And who, exactly, do you think started the whole invasion in the first place? Shadow Destroyer.
#3: Show me anything in the actual game that indicates the various Destroyer agents don't trust or believe SD is DD. In case you forgot, even in the PnP universe DD was gone for 10 years before he re-emerged. The difference between the PnP and MMO is that Shadow Destroyer appeared before Dr. Destroyer made his return.
#4: Even in the PnP Dr. D let underlings use all of his robots and other resources for a decade while he hid and planned. What you're forgetting is that DD has the bypass codes. DD has alpha clearance. He can shut them down with the wave of his hand. They aren't a threat to him in any way.
#5: Dr. D isn't the smartest person in the CU - not the 5E PnP version anyway. There are many characters as smart and some, such as Teleios and Mentiac to name but 2, are smarter.
#6: Who said he didn't have an escape plan? I said he's still alive and watching things progress; and as long as SD goes in the direction DD wants there's no reason for DD to make himself known, and put himself at risk. DD is more then happy to let SD take all the risks until DD is ready to make his move.
Uh, no it's not beside the point. If none of Dr. Destroyer's Lieutenants trust Shadow Destroyer as Dr. Destroyer, and assuming that Dr. Destroyer actually shared his vast power and army with anyone at all, why would they reactivate Dr. Destroyer's robot army for Shadow Destroyer if they don't trust him? Most of Dr. Destroyer's Lieutenants are fanatically loyal to him till death and beyond, and most of them openly admit, either in writings you find or from them directly, they don't trust this person impersonating Dr. Destroyer so are not following him. In fact, Black Talon's big dillema was is it worth it to send out his find and retrive alert so the Destroids and the rest of Destroyer's Lieutenants could come pick him up during the riot at Stronghold, but because of his doubts of the new Destroyer, he was left just left with the idea that he was better off waiting for the real dr. Destroyer to show up.
Look into your heart, you know it to be true.
(Edit: In my mind, the robot factory supports the theory that there is a real Dr. D out there working behind the scenes, as I doubt he'd discount the possibility of a clone trying to access his work, so simply BEING genetically identical wouldn't work, and I doubt he'd give up his command codes even in death. He's too much of an egomaniac to do so.)
And remember, the factory was built long before SD came to the Champions dimension, so SOMEBODY gave the order for that to happen.
It's not exactly paranoid to say that there is a decent chance the real Dr. D survived and is working.
Sorry to have missed this thread earlier. I haven't read the intervening five pages of posts, so I'm going to provide a direct answer that may have already been covered by other posters in some fashion.
Assuming Cryptic doesn't want me to change anything after reviewing the CU manuscript (and they've certainly said nothing so far), here's how things stand:
1. The Battle of Detroit takes place in 1992; Dr. Destroyer fakes his own death so he can spend time devising new weapons and plans free from meddling heroes.
2. In 2002, just as Dr. Destroyer is ready to announce his return to the world, Shadow Destroyer appears on Earth. Disturbed and perturbed by this, Dr. Destroyer remains in seclusion to keep an eye on events. The world widely believes that Shadow Destroyer is the "real" Dr. Destroyer returned from the dead.
3. As of 2010, Dr. Destroyer continues to observe the situation and make plans to obliterate Shadow Destroyer. Shadow Destroyer expects him to show up eventually, at which point he will obliterate the real Dr. Destroyer.
a. Most of Dr. Destroyer's organization has fallen apart and gone on to other things after nearly 20 years of nothing happening. Some of his most loyal people, including villains like Gigaton and Rakshasa, remain hopeful that their leader isn't really dead and try to soldier on in his absence; none of Dr. Destroyer's major bases has been discovered by the authorities. Whether Dr. Destroyer's had any contact with these loyalists is left an open question for now, but each GM can certainly answer it as he sees fit.
Hopefully that helps! If you have any other Destroyer-related PnP questions, just let me know.
Edom King? was that the Shadow Destroyer being mean or what.. I like that Crisis in Vibrio Bay...End..
I gotta admit, even though both are awesome villains, I am a bit more fond of the newer Shadow Destroyer