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Ok ladies and gents; here's something I've been curious about since I started playing CO on launch day. Haven't gotten an answer yet, so I figured I'd ask you guys.
Here goes: If you look at the concept art (like the art on the borders on the forums here for example) you'll see Witchcraft. Then if you've played CO, you've seen Witchcraft in game as well. These two look very little like one another. Which brings me to the questions I have.
1. What does Witchcraft actually look like in the Champions Universe?
2. Are there other Champions characters depicted in the game that differ greatly from their Champions Universe appearances? Defender? Grond? Mindslayer? Mechanon?
3. Are all of these characters actually Champions Universe characters? Or were some of them created just for the MMO?
4. Where is a good place to go to to look at character art of these characters from the PnP versions?
Thanks in advance for any answers you guys can offer.
=]
Here goes: If you look at the concept art (like the art on the borders on the forums here for example) you'll see Witchcraft. Then if you've played CO, you've seen Witchcraft in game as well. These two look very little like one another. Which brings me to the questions I have.
1. What does Witchcraft actually look like in the Champions Universe?
2. Are there other Champions characters depicted in the game that differ greatly from their Champions Universe appearances? Defender? Grond? Mindslayer? Mechanon?
3. Are all of these characters actually Champions Universe characters? Or were some of them created just for the MMO?
4. Where is a good place to go to to look at character art of these characters from the PnP versions?
Thanks in advance for any answers you guys can offer.
=]
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2. Defender had a different armored apperance same with Dr. Destroyer. In fact the Dr. Destroyer in the Robot Factory is actually the retro version of him, versus the concept image to the right. Needless to say, past versions versus current ahve changed a lot.
3. Many of them are Champions Universe characters. The Champions themselves, however, were actually quick start templates for actual players to play, from what I was told. Thus Defender, Witchcraft, Kinetik and Ironclad were not uber powered individuals your characters could eventually meet, though with 6th edition that may have changed now. However, that being said, I am sure a few of the characters in Champions Online are original creations. I believe Sapphire, for instance, is an original creation but of course, since Cryptic owns the IP, can one really say it's a seperate creation anymore?
4. I have no idea on character art. The herogames.com website has basically udpated most of the artwork now.
1. What does Witchcraft actually look like in the Champions Universe?
- It depends on the edition of the game. I recall her being a little more conservative in attire.
2. Are there other Champions characters depicted in the game that differ greatly from their Champions Universe appearances? Defender? Grond? Mindslayer? Mechanon?
- Witchcraft's sister was an even sexier sex kitten. Rawr.
3. Are all of these characters actually Champions Universe characters? Or were some of them created just for the MMO?
- Most of them are all CO characters, but the core Champions in the game were really templates and examples of how you could recreate your favorite archetypes from the comics you love so much, and show off the flexible and creative system.
4. Where is a good place to go to to look at character art of these characters from the PnP versions?
-Find a gaming/comic shop, they may have some of the various incarnations of the PnP game lying around. Just because they're old doesn't mean they'll be expensive, I cleaned up on some Rifts and AD&D books at a library sale last fall. They're cool to have on the shelf.
1. In our 5th Edition books she looked different -- her tunic was a teal color and her cloak much more elaborate in some ways. However, since Cryptic bought the CU IP, their take on what anyone "actually" looks like is the correct one, so as of the 6E books Witchcraft looks just like she does in the MMO, with a green costume, etc.
2. Again, you may find that some look significantly different in 5E books (often because an appearance that's fine for a book simply doesn't work well for an on-screen MMO). In the 6E books going forward, generally speaking the MMO appearance becomes the official one.
3. They're all actually CU characters. I may be forgetting someone, but I don't recall ever meeting a villain or major NPC in the game who doesn't already exist in the published CU books.
4. For the 6E look, check out our forthcoming books Champions Universe and Champions Villains (the latter is a three-book set). For their 5E appearances, your best bet would be our 5E CU book and our main 5E villains book, Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks. You may also want to check out other 5E villains books like Evil Unleashed and Villains, Vandals, And Vermin.
Back on topic though...I actually hate it that Witchcraft adopted the ponytail...she really came off as more of a master of magic without it. In her current rendition; she looks like a valley girl that bought a sorceress costume off of ebay. I also like the retro Dr. Destroyer better than the modern version (no doubt I'm in the minority there). The retro version just gave him a more sinister feel where the modern version makes him appear more "stereotypical villain bent on world domination".
I used to PnP role play with friends religiously (D&D, Whitewolf, MURPG, Shadowrun, etc.) though the Hero system wasn't easy to find at the time...Now that I know about it and have access to it; there's no one to game with. That being said, I'll have to see about picking up some of the books for the character art and profiles if nothing else.
Again, thanks for the info guys (and girls if such applies).
=]
I suppose it depends on who the game master is. (with some people, that's half the fun!)
I don't mind it too much in the MMO, just as long as it isn't overdone.
However, I remember a plethora of characters from the original game that seem to have been forgotten to time. Ankylasaur (spelled right?), Blackstar, Leech, etc., etc.... these were the villain concepts I was looking forward to thrashing and yet, not even a mention of them or any of the others I remember. Not that I'm complaining, I love the game and wait for every improvement as the devs continue to move forward... it's just the childhood memories I have of the Champions Universe aren't what I'm experiencing.
I'm sure that the PnP version has matured and changed just like everything else and that my absence from it is probably the reason for this alienated feeling I have, but I think that the Lore of the game really should include, at least, tales of these characters that jumpstarted such a fantastic game. Maybe even include flashback missions to early Champions and give us old timers the chance to put these baddies down the way we used to in our imagination.
Aside from Defender I didn't much care for most of them, so when we revamped everything for 5E I simply removed them from the continuity and came up with new members of the Champions that suited my purposes better.
Of the ones you mention specifically, I've encountered both Ankylosaur and Leech in CO. Blackstar and plenty of others are still in the published continuity, and could certainly appear in the MMO at any time if Cryptic decides to use 'em.
Okay, now I feel stupid. I have a level 40 and never came across either of these great villains. I suppose I'll have to make sure that my follow up toons seek them out! Good-goody!
Knowing that the other baddies are still part of the Champions mythos makes me feel better and that we may, someday, see them in digital brilliance; well that makes me feel just downright warm and fuzzy.
BTW, can anyone tell me the name of the pie-throwing, fox-themed, teleporting villain of said early edition Champions? I thought it was Foxbat, but I'm second guessing myself now.
Nope. That was the Fox of Crime.
One thing that puzzles me, if CO is now the official look of the villains, who designed their new look in the forthcoming VILLAINS books, you or Cryptic? If you, chances are they may change when they are used for CO, or is the new book cannon?
I had wondered the same thing.
I'm in agreement here. I played Champions way back when after being introduced to D & D. I found Champions was more to my liking with the focus on superhero characters and stories but didn't care for the number crunching my group was into at the behest of our GMs. So I left it when White Wolf came on the scene. But I always had a lot of nostalgia for the Champions Universe.
So I too was a bit disappointed when I found out just how much spoof content was in the game. Sure it makes a lot of the content accessible and the humor lightens up the fact your hero is basically running around assaulting people. Still, from a story standpoint there's no real balance. The mood and tone of the story arcs of the main Champions characters (and NPCs) never meshes with the side stories or the major missions currently necessary for leveling. I'm not saying the game should only be retro, hard edged action or comedy but it seems the current scattershot method isn't quite working for everyone. Personally I can't see how the Foxbat TV station mission (sorry... can't remember the mission title) and the Monster Island Crisis are in the same game.
I'm certain it's difficult to nail something like mood and tone for something as broadly based as an MMO but maybe if there were more arcs that would help. Then players could customize their story experience as much as their costumes and powers. A golden age retro player or group could seek out the similarly themed missions. While an offbeat group could seek the spoof missions. Then the roleplayers and more conventional (for severe lack of a better word) superhero action types could seek the grittier action missions.
All this really boils down to (I think...) is the need for more content and more variety in progression paths. This has already been covered at length and with varying degrees of animosity. So I'll digress. But keep the kitchy item and device descriptions. Those are hilarious and always brighten my day.:rolleyes:
Nostalgia time ...
I kind of miss Seeker, not because I liked him, but because I always hated him so much. A shirtless Australian ninja guy with no mask whose catchphrase was "G'day, miss. Watch this!" So awful. I liked all the rest much better, but I have to admit that Seeker, in his douchiness, was by far the most memorable.
Actually I miss Obsidian too. He kind of filled Ironclad's roles of being both a big brick and an alien, but he was also like the regal, understated king of an alien federation or something. A lot of depth there. I like Ironclad too though.
I also miss Defender's old armored suit with the shiny, faceless helmet, and his slighter build. I guess the generic musclebound dork look is good to have for the leader of MC's banner team, but yeah, he used to be a lot more interesting.
Speaking of nostalgia .... wow. Steve Long posting on our board. Kind of a strange collision of worlds between my childhood and today!
That's really too bad, as I actually preferred that line up to the current one... The 4th versions had more of an international feel too them... Although I never was a big fan of Seeker... He seemed a better solo hero than a team member... I certainly liked Solitare better than Witchcraft and Obsidian better than Ironclad (although that was primarily a name and appearance change, character itself is about the same)
Just mho...
Solitaire > Witchcraft
Quantum > Sapphire
OG Defender > CO Defender
And of course, the 4th ed Dr. Destroyer is the one I like to hate!
Just like in all of the old modules/expansion books/etc the talk is about Seeker. The gloryhound.
Where is the Jaguar love !!!!!
Ah Jaguar. The Fifth Beatle of the Champions...
Thats teh one!!!!
Seriously though where is he ?
SHallow grave perhaps ?
I mean he didnt have much in the way of helath and was relying on LR for his passive....
But you're absolutely right. We should remember the meritorious stuff from the past, not the dreck! So I'll post about my absolute favorite legacy Champions PnP character: ARMADILLO. Why is Armadillo so unforgettable? Because he had the best trait of any character I have ever seen in a superhero game:
Psychological Limitation: Always Announces What He Is Going To Do.
Most genre-appropriate thing ever.
Personally I am hoping they introduce some of the champions villain groups to CO. Eurostar and CLOWN ftw.
With the exception of PSI, which originally appeared in the Mind Games supplement for fourth edition, those are all agencies (using the champions distinction).
Edit: just realized the point of confusion. When I say villain groups I am referring to the likes of the Ultimates, Eurostar, the Asesinos, etc. Groups coprised entirely of named supervillains. Essentially villainous versions of SG's.
You forget the mighty GEODESICS! The only villain group a newly made hero could whip by him/herself. In fact I'm pretty sure I had a DNPC that beat up two of them.
I was holding out for him to appear in an expansion within the first year. Although have to admit... If we eventually encounter Mechanon I'm hoping he isn't campy... Just a cold, calculating human-murdering machine. I guess robot cowboy minions aren't a good indicator of that though...
So we have robot cowboys in the desert... Robot pirates in Lemuria... Where are the robot ninjas?
Seriously though. I like the darker, more serious angle that came with the Vibora Bay expansion. I think we're all old enough that the storyline and characters can take themselves a little more seriously.
It could work. Mechanon would essentially be like a Lord Nemesis of Champions, everytime you think yu've killed him he comes back bigger, better and stronger... well in Lord Nemesis case just easier to beat, but I am sure it could be pulled off. The problem is with a character like that, he would eventually start to get dull. So, it would be best to use him sparingly.
Adaptive defenses are a neat idea: every time you get hit by an attack, you acquire a stack of defense against one damage type, and there's a limit to how many total stacks (of all different types put together) you can have. It's a bit problematic as a PC power, but it's fine for a boss power.
Mechanon would be an encounter I would save for when they might include raid class content.
Also, I'd love to see the Minuteman robots, although I suppose it would require some sort of alternate reality adventure pack where heroes were the outlaws like in the X-Men Days of Future Past storyline.
Ankylosaur DOES get mentioned by Armadillo in the Argent Cave. So, technically, he's 'in the game' but probably not 'in the game' proper yet. Same thing with Mechanon. There is still a lot of setup for Villains being put into the game. Leech is in the game.
OG Marksman before he got his hair-cut for the comics. I still have a lead figure of him.
A disgruntled, crazy Marksman as one of my Nemesi:
.. and got very scared.
It's a wonder we never hear from him during the whole Menton fiasco.
I could easily see them creating a Stronghold Part Deux with Taipan in the Outback.