Please help building Piercing based Munitions hero.

beretta249

I'd like to get as much as possible out of Snipe and Gatling Gun for a hybrid Melee/Ranged hero. Besides Armor Piercing what synergizes well along those lines?

Hero theme is Munitions and Heavy Weapons, but I'd like to know to about any possible options.

flowcyto

This should prob have went in the Builds & Roles sub-forum, but regardless HW + Muni is a bit of an odd mix. You can't optimize both melee and ranged at the same time in CO, due mainly to the split in dps roles and in dps toggle/forms. Gatling Gun would also be pretty energy-hungry, and not as easily supported by a typical HW build. Sniper Rifle would prob just be used as a long-ranged opener attack, since taking any dmg interrupts its cast.

If I had to mix them, and still get good dmg /support for Gatling and Sniper, then I'd prob make it a mostly Muni build, and just use HW attacks to CC enemies that get close (not as staple attacks). Here's an example of that:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.45:38

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 18: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Submachinegun Burst (Rank 2, Wall of Bullets)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Targeting Computer (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Killer Instinct
Level 14: Gatling Gun (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 20: Assault Rifle (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Sniper Rifle (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Eruption (Rank 2)
Level 32: Guard (Rank 2)
Level 35: Brute Strike (Rank 2)
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 33/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

The last power can be w/e ya want.

Uses Gatling for long-ranged AoE, SMG for wider 50ft AoE (and for its dmg shield), and AR as the main single-target attack. Targets that step too close can get knocked and/or stunned with Eruption and Brute Strike, and you can still use the weapon to block. Gears mostly for Ego, w/ some Rec and Con.

beretta249

Thanks much for the help mate. Yeah, apologies for putting this in the wrong forum. I posted there, too, but discovered I couldn't erase this post.

I'm currently running Muni/HW as a Crushing Debuff build. Shotgun for Armor Piercing, Thundering Kicks for Demolish, Arc of Ruin w/ No Quarter, and Mini Gun w/ Burn Through. That's 4 Crush Resist debuffs in total with some decent synergies like Frag Grenade with Bleed as energy (Relentless) and Aspect of the Machine for stance buff while also being almost entirely Crushing damage.

Or as friend of mine dryly put it "you built a very slow Mortal Strike build."

It works decently enough but I was missing Gatling Gun from this hero originally being the Soldier AT, and was wondering if I could get the same results orienting around Piercing instead.

Thanks again.

edit:
Stat wise I'm Dex/Con/End which is probably horribly inefficient. I tried equalizing End/Rec and that sucked, so maybe I'll respec End into Rec because having a giant energy bar that starts 50/286 is agony except against bosses. I just don't front load at all.

beretta249

The HW elements are for rp, basically. Character is a super soldier type cloned from the dna of Thor (or maybe Heimdall or Frigga; the mad scientists were really sloppy) and is in MC basically because they don't have any job skills. Sure being a hero is great, but so is not having to couch surf.

jaazaniah1

Hmm, seems like you might be spending most of your time applying debuffs rather than doing damage? I think most people only take 1, at most 2 debuffs. Can you post your full build here using Hero Creator?

Something like this might be fun:

Use SR or GG as a quick opener. Lunge in. Knock enemies around using Eruption and/or Brimstone (maybe a self res if you don't want both, or a stun of some sort). Apply AP with Shot Gun and then go to down with BB.

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.45:38

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Master (Str: 8, Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 15: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)


Powers
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Eruption (Reckless Endangerment)
Level 6: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Pulverizer
Level 14: Shotgun Blast (Breaching Round, Armor Piercing)
Level 17: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 20: Bullet Ballet
Level 23: Sniper Rifle (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Gatling Gun (Rank 2, Sheer Force)
Level 32: Guard (Rank 2)
Level 35: Brimstone (Burning Sun)
Level 38: Vicious Descent (Relentless, Work Up)
Adv. Points: 32/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

Devices

beretta249

Valentina

Hopefully that works. I left out the two least committed slots. And at the minimum I realize I can consolidate Shotgun and Frag Grenade into just Frag Grenade to apply both AP and Bleed.

Also yeah the ratio of time spent debuffing to applying full damage is bit extra.

beretta249

Ok, trying again...

Valentina.

Yeah my ratio of time spent applying debuffs to dealing direct damage is a bit much.

Downsides: many! Upside: 31% crit chance, 10k crits with 98 Offense. Also some tanks are Crushing heavy and I synergize with that pretty noticeably.

edit: updated with missing ranks.

edit2: really it occurs to me I need to Parse. I hate Parsing. But that would be useful.

beretta249

Did that work?

Also as to the original point it doesn't sound like there is an equivalent number of Piercing damage debuffs as for Crushing. No worries then.

flowcyto

I guess I'm a bit unsure on what you want, since both of the FF builds that you posted don't feature either Gatling Gun or Sniper Rifle. The Mini Gun in PA is a different power than Muni's Gatling Gun, and operates as a Shoulder slotted toggle. That means that if you use Minigun, then you lockout the ability to use any other type of power that isn't a PA slotted toggle, and because of that it's not generally recommended to mix PA's slotted toggles w/ other types of powers. And yea, there's not as many Piercing debuffs vs. Crushing ones (Crushing won't impact most of Muni's attacks, including Gatling and Sniper), and just having one debuff can still be fine (in this case, Armor Piercing is prob the more fitting one).

Frag Grenade is indeed a good power for quick debuffing (and added dps), though keep in mind that it's limited to 50ft, and Gatling can also proc the AP debuff (though at a %chance, unless fully channeled). I also prob wouldn't take Aspect of the Machine vs. the other dps toggles, since it doesn't also grant energy and requires killing blows to proc. Relentless also scales more w/ Rec than w/ End.

If you still want a build that uses Gatling and Sniper well, then I'd just recommend either my build (for more of a classic ranged Muni style) or Jaaz's (for more of a mixed style).

jaazaniah1

Forgot to say that in my build that even though Str is PSS you would be stacking Dex.

beretta249

I have some tuning to do for certain. I've swapped out End for Rec and it's working noticeably better. I'll probably drop Mini Gun as even in my current overly debuff heavy setup it's both not a powerful AoE and applies Burn Through irregularly. You'd think 15% at 4/sec would be reliable but actually no.

Probably no Sniper, either. Truth be told I don't like the fragile long charge up alpha strike powers. Sniper is also remarkable for having some of the fewest weapon models available. Even Rocket Launcher has more. That kinda says something.

I hear you on Aspect of the Machine. SMH, that. It doesn't always start at 3 stacks despite being at 3 ranks and I apparently never score killing blows ever. It only has one virtue of course, but that virtue is noticeable. Bleh.

Regardless I appreciate the time and thought put into my situation. I've learned I am making basically a fundamental mistake: I'm trying to build a functional version of actively mixing melee and ranged. Can't be too surprised that it struggles.

beretta249

Anyway I'll try those builds out. Certainly a lot to be said for streamlining concept down to fit execution. Not a lot of virtue in being uniquely mediocre. Thanks folks.

(inb4 "your mixed melee and ranged monstrosity isn't unique.")