Looking for help with ranged Infernal dual passive

omnius

I'm basing this off of a survivability build suggested by @Flowcyto in this thread and I'm going with a dual passive for solo survivability purposes at level 40 but also intend to swap passives and gear for DPS mode in teams. There's a few questions I have about it though, I'm 30 levels into it so far:

1. Is my ideal rotation supposed to be Willowisp as my opener? After that, what rotation works best when dealing with large groups with a villain or higher mixed in? I've been having some issues due to low equilibrium and my energy bar not filling fast enough when starting off a fight fresh so I'm having to throw a couple energy builder attacks into the mix at the start. If I'm full from a previous fight I seem to be ok, but not a fresh fight.
2. Which resurrection works best with this build, Fiery Embrace as suggested in the other thread, or Rebirth? Also curious why Endorphin Rush in that thread was selected instead of another quick heal. Ease of use I'm guessing?
3. Why supernatural power and Chilled Form was suggested instead of Aspect of the Infernal and Mephitic? I chose the latter just to play it safe because I wasn't sure

Here's what I'm working with so far

Infernal - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mephitic
Level 14: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 26: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace
Level 38: Entrancing
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35:

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices

flowcyto

There's a few questions I have about it though, I'm 30 levels into it so far:

- Is my ideal rotation supposed to be Willowisp as my opener? After that, what rotation works best when dealing with large groups with a villain or higher mixed in? I've been having some issues due to low equilibrium and my energy bar not filling fast enough when starting off a fight fresh so I'm having to throw a couple energy builder attacks into the mix at the start. If I'm full from a previous fight I seem to be ok, but not a fresh fight.
- Which resurrection works best with this build, Fiery Embrace as suggested in the other thread, or Rebirth? Also curious why Endorphin Rush in that thread was selected instead of another quick heal. Ease of use I'm guessing?
- Why supernatural power and Chilled Form was suggested instead of Aspect of the Infernal and Mephitic? I chose the latter just to play it safe because I wasn't sure (...)

The initial thread was for a simple hybrid-dps that spams Epidemic for easy leveling, and for that Supernatural Power is easier to work around than something like Mephitic (assuming you have decent enough End and Rec). AotI vs. Chilled Form isn't a big difference for the purposes of using Epidemic, but Conc_Chilled Form is more reliable than AotI when using charged Defile (since Defile's poison chance is only 50% at full charge). Ofc, if you have a different rotation, like alternating between IBlast and Defile (which can be much easier on energy, but lower base dps), then either toggle/form could work fine, so it'll also kinda depend on how you want to use some of the attacks in your build.

The Wisp is nice to put up in general for the Toxic dmg debuff, yeah (maybe not as high priority for some AoE/trash, since trash tends to die quickly, but that's up to you). Energy equilibrium issues can be helped by getting some more cost discount and a bit more Rec on gear. It'll be more of a problem at lower gear/stat levels, though.

I took Endorphin Rush partly cause I figured that the original build would have a decent amount of Con and a bit Rec (even if Rec is not SS'd, as it still helps Supernatural Power), and ERush is much cheaper than Conviction. The other reason I took ERush for that build in particular was cause it has the adv that gives a movement speed boost when taking dmg, which I figured would help speed up leveling a bit when running around w/ Epidemic in combat. Conviction can sill work fine, though, if you want it.

Also, Rebirth deals your maxHP in self-dmg over time, so it's not as good to get on units that don't have strong self-healing (like most dps builds).

omnius

flowcyto wrote: »

The initial thread was for a simple hybrid-dps that spams Epidemic for easy leveling, and for that Supernatural Power is easier to work around than something like Mephitic (assuming you have decent enough End and Rec). AotI vs. Chilled Form isn't a big difference for the purposes of using Epidemic, but Conc_Chilled Form is more reliable than AotI when using charged Defile (since Defile's poison chance is only 50% at full charge). Ofc, if you have a different rotation, like alternating between IBlast and Defile (which can be much easier on energy, but lower base dps), then either toggle/form could work fine, so it'll also kinda depend on how you want to use some of the attacks in your build.

The Wisp is nice to put up in general for the Toxic dmg debuff, yeah (maybe not as high priority for some AoE/trash, since trash tends to die quickly, but that's up to you). Energy equilibrium issues can be helped by getting some more cost discount and a bit more Rec on gear. It'll be more of a problem at lower gear/stat levels, though.

I took Endorphin Rush partly cause I figured that the original build would have a decent amount of Con and a bit Rec (even if Rec is not SS'd, as it still helps Supernatural Power), and ERush is much cheaper than Conviction. The other reason I took ERush for that build in particular was cause it has the adv that gives a movement speed boost when taking dmg, which I figured would help speed up leveling a bit when running around w/ Epidemic in combat. Conviction can sill work fine, though, if you want it.

Also, Rebirth deals your maxHP in self-dmg over time, so it's not as good to get on units that don't have strong self-healing (like most dps builds).

Thanks! Is what I've kept and what I've changed in my build above good to go then? I'll take the adv on ER you mentioned, I still have room left on that power and that movement boost would be really handy

The only other thing I'm unsure about is the necessity for a self-res power. I'm not sure whether that, or taking an Ultimate would be more useful. I plan to team for stuff where possible so there'd be a support there, (Unsure if actual raids are in the cards for me or not yet) and I'm assuming I don't really need a self-res for solo stuff since I can just respawn.

I took your advice about Rec on secondary gear. For attacks I've started doing something like this: Target villain in group with a Wisp, Epidemic all the trash near him, hit villain with Defile, and if necessary tap instead of charge the occasional Iblast if necessary (usually only for Master/Supervillains and above)

carrionbaggage

If you're running Aspect of the Infernal with Mephitic, I'd grab the Avenger tree (for Preemptive Strike), and run a rotation of Infernal Blast (tap) > Defile (charge). Just toss Wisp at the start for the debuff, and the Infernal Blast taps will refresh it. I'd probably use Guardian as the other tree, and swap to Vindicator if you get a set of Justice or Distinguished gear.

Depending on your gear, you should be able to run stable energy without dedicating any mods to REC. For a Mephitic/AotI build, I'd gear more for Cost Discount and some END if there's energy issues; and always lead with Wisp so the guaranteed poison triggers your energy returns.

A self-rez is handy in lairs, where the single healer's attention is split between healing and rezzing (and can be under fire, depending on the mechanics). It also helps when public-queueing lockout alerts (Warlord, Qularr, Cybermind, and most rampages), where you don't know the quality of the support. It's up to you whether it warrants a power slot. A Phoenix Tear can eventually replace it, if you extend your gear grind to that point.

Infernal - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Field Ops Training (Con: 3, Int: 3, Ego: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
Level 18: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mephitic
Level 14: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Can't Stop Me)
Level 23: Will-o'-the-Wisp
Level 26: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace
Level 38: Entrancing
Adv. Points: 34/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (2/3)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices

omnius

carrionbaggage wrote: »

If you're running Aspect of the Infernal with Mephitic, I'd grab the Avenger tree (for Preemptive Strike), and run a rotation of Infernal Blast (tap) > Defile (charge). Just toss Wisp at the start for the debuff, and the Infernal Blast taps will refresh it. I'd probably use Guardian as the other tree, and swap to Vindicator if you get a set of Justice or Distinguished gear.

I actually just started climbing the last tree into Vindicator already, does it make that huge of a difference to keep it? With preemtive strike, doesn't Defile count as a "blast" attack?

flowcyto

Defile is not a Blast attack. Blasts are usually flagged as such in their tooltips (if they don't already have 'blast' in their name):

As for the specs: Guardicator spec is still strong for ranged dps, and regardless of your rotation. However, if you are alternating between IBlast and Defile for your single-target rotation then you'll prob want to retrain to Avenger spec, yea.

omnius

flowcyto wrote: »

Defile is not a Blast attack. Blasts are usually flagged as such in their tooltips (if they don't already have 'blast' in their name)

As for the specs: Guardicator spec is still strong for ranged dps, and regardless of your rotation. However, if you are alternating between IBlast and Defile for your single-target rotation then you'll prob want to retrain to Avenger spec, yea.

Perfect thanks, I'm going to do what he suggested then and do Avenger + Guardian and skip Vindicator for if/when I ever get my hands on Justice gear. I'm actually not even using the regen hybrid mode right now and have been levelling as DPS with Pestilence quite easily using your other thread suggestion as a base because when I hit the hard stuff, I switch my build to that and it works great. So I'm definitely keeping regen in my dual passive build, it came in really handy for soloing adventure packs. I just used it to solo that ultimate mind legendary mission in Canada today as well.

flowcyto

Yea, it's generally faster to level as a dps when tackling the easier solo stuff. Regardless, glad to hear that the dual passive setup is already working out for you 8)

omnius

I decided to ditch Fiery Embrace as my last pick so I'm looking for suggestions that'll add a little extra damage. I looked at Corrosive Pit ultimate but it doesn't seem to be held in very high regard. Some kind of active offense that would work with Infernal ranged powers maybe? Lock N Load? Toxic nanites? It's a tech themed character anyway if that makes any difference.

I played around with R2 Ego Surge on the test dummies since I'm EGO PSS. The EGO bonus only ended up adding 3% to my damage strength on character sheet, but overall it was making my Defile hit for about an extra 1000. Not sure if it's worthwhile or not, or should be trying something else.

flowcyto

Yea, Toxic Nanites is okay as an added Toxic dmg cd. Active Offenses aren't usually that strong for dps builds cause of the heavy DR on general damage bonuses and the AO's longer cd, but a ranked one is still better than nothing for dps if you don't feel like you need anything else for the power slot.

omnius

Yeah, I think I'll just do the nanites or maybe corrosive pit after all

omnius

Actually what abut Imbue? I'm sitting at around 30% crit chance with basic freshly at level 40 mods, would it be worth it or will that suffer DR too? Just curious if that power would be more or less of an overall dps gain than using toxic nanites

flowcyto

Imbue's crit boosts scale inversely w/ your character's health when you pop it (and afaik the bonus is not reduced by DR), so Imbue is good if you can normally use it when at a health deficit, but not great if you use it when your character is still healthy (or if you have to sit on the cd for a long time till you get to lower health). Being at lower health would be more common in harder content, but overall it just depends on your own experiences.

omnius

Sounds a little micro-managey, so Toxic nanites wins the draw. Which attacks would you suggest I use it on? Wisp, Epidemic and Blast? I just don't want it to somehow mess up my Defile getting the bonus from Preemptive Strike

flowcyto

Well, if you want to apply Toxic Nanites in a wide AoE, then you'd want to pair it w/ Epidemic. For single-targets, I think Toxic Nanites itself gets boosted by Preemptive Strike (not 100% certain on that, but brief testing seems to support it), and it doesn't consume the buff, so you can still pair it w/ Defile and Defile will still be affected by Preemptive.

omnius

The more I play this toon and play some alts, I'm kind of wondering where Infernal ranged sits in the role department? I mean the DPS on this build is pretty respectable but as I level up my ranged TK alt, it appears to me that with a dex PSS and crits flying everywhere, it's going to outclass my Infernal's DPS

Don't get me wrong, it's fun, the giant epidemic spam is a great tool too, but I'd really like to know how people generally rank ranged Infernal builds for DPS before I invest too heavily into this.

I probably need help with my approach to fights and rotations because my TK builds ego leech stacks way faster than my infernal builds poison stacks.

Btw flow, I did go back to guardicator, you're right it's just better for this build

flowcyto

Well, Ranged TK is one of the stronger long-ranged dps builds overall, last I checked. Infernal is pretty good, provided you can afford to use Defile heavily for single-target dps, but I don't think it quite matches Ranged TK there. Parsing them both in similar gear (say, if you have access to the PTS) could help give you a more detailed comparison, if you're curious enough about it.

Also, a normal ranged TK setup is kinda meant to build ELeech stacks quickly, since you regularly consume them to boost TK Lance (similar thing w/ TK blades and EBA). Deadly Poison will stack more slowly, usually, but you're not going to be consuming the poison stacks for your basic attacks either; poison is instead a decent chunk of extra sustained dmg for longer fights once it's stacked. TK is a bit more upfront and bursty by comparison.

omnius

What you're describing sounds like the additive Infernal damage from several sources (direct, Dot's, form etc) realize their potential more against huge enemies like Cosmics than I'll notice when soloing something like an adventure pack supervillain, compared to soloing with my TK. Does that sound about right?

Just want to make sure I'm not investing in a build that's generally seen as lackluster. Any advice on how to get the most out of it? Generally on harder stuff I'll start with a Wisp, followed by a fully charged defiles, and then throw in infernal blast taps to refresh poison (or a charge for another guaranteed stack if I have the luxury) and use epidemic to burn down any trash around a boss.

For straight trash I usually just run up and spam epidemic. I also hit wisp again after the cooldown if a boss isn't down by then

jaazaniah1

omnius#0640 wrote: »

Just want to make sure I'm not investing in a build that's generally seen as lackluster. Any advice on how to get the most out of it? Generally on harder stuff I'll start with a Wisp, followed by a fully charged defiles, and then throw in infernal blast taps to refresh poison (or a charge for another guaranteed stack if I have the luxury) and use epidemic to burn down any trash around a boss.

Why worry about this at all? If you enjoy playing the character/think the play style is fun/think the animations are cool/have a great costume-look, and you contribute in a meangiful way to group endgame content isn't that what's really important? Don't obsess about being top dog. In that direction lies madness, because all it takes is one Dev to take a dislike to a certain power/powerset and what was once top dog becomes middle of the pile (looking at you, 2GM). I've known players to quit the game because the Devs nerfed their perfect build. Madness! Recently I decided to work on a ranged Earth DPS, of all things. Will it top the charts? No way (or at least not until Devs decide Earth is cool and should reign supreme). Am I enjoying play it? Oh, my, yes!

omnius

Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy Infernal a lot, which is the important thing, but I'm just trying to avoid newbie mistakes. I only have my 3 FF slots and not a LFS player so I need to be a little careful. If you have any rotation advice like I mentioned above to help me do better with it, that'd be awesome

flowcyto

Well, your general attack usage sounds okay overall. With Guardicator, you don't necessarily have to alternate between IBlast and Defile, as you would w/ Avenger + Preemptive, so that means you can try to use Defile more often for bosses. The main thing is that you're not running out of energy regularly (since Defile is pretty costly), but much of that comes down to gear, and in large-group content you are likely to get aura buffs from allies that can also help w/ that.

You prob won't be topping meters in large-group content, but that's also cause 3-slot PA can be crazy good, and optimized melee builds generally have access to stronger single-target dps options overall. Assuming you can use mostly Defile w/ Deadly Poison stacked and w/ the Debilitating Poison debuff (from the Wisp), then your single-target dps should still be respectable for a ranged unit (and you can clean up quite well in AoE w/ Epidemic).

omnius

As I learn the game better and figure out which content to avoid for farming vs trying to take on myself solo for better currency rewards, I'm considering ditching having a dual passive with Regen now (and also because gear is going to improve soon). So I've revised my potential build to stay in DPS all the time. What I'd like advice about is my advantage points choices for Resurgence, Energy Shield, Toxic nanites, and Corrosive Pit. I'm also open to alternative choices with my block power (it's a tech theme), but from my testing so far I've noticed that I can totally turtle up behind my block after laying down Infernal's DoT's and even soloing hard targets melt while I turtle.

This newest build depends on my ditching having a self-rez as well. The teamed content I plan to do will mostly consist of open world cosmics like kiga, ape, calendar events, and smash alerts. No rampages. Ditching the self rez depends on whether or not I'll lose rewards from the above if I have to respawn and the targets die / mission completes before I manage to get back into the area

Infernal - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mephitic
Level 14: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Entrancing
Level 35: Toxic Nanites
Level 38: Corrosive Pit (Toxicity)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices

flowcyto

R3 of Resurgence is more likely to be over-heal, so you can prob safely drop that. I may also switch to Concentration or Chilled Form as the toggle/form if you are using Defile more often, since its poison chance isn't guaranteed. As far as the self-res, you can have it swap-able in the last power slot with w/e other power you are considering for it, so changing it out isn't that expensive, either way. You also don't need the Toxicity adv on Corrosive Pit, since you already have the Wisp for Debilitating Poison.