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Help with Hybrid DPS build

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  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    Well, take a moment to watch @spinnytop videos. She's playing dps and most of them don't use BCR and most of them are definitely not MA builds. Her 1st one is an electric build with... just R1 Conviction so it's clearly possible, just don't ask me because i'm really bad at dps builds.

    Yes, you're right. I did take a quick look at his videos. The electric one seems to heal with the electric slotted, which heals a bit everytime you attack someone with Ions. It's a little heal, but all the build is electric and he does a lot of blocking and DoT with Ball Lightning, sigils and blocking.

    I tried, but since my build is not elec only it didn't worked. But I get your point. It seems that to get those kind of heals, the build have to be exactly what they meant to be. There's no much room for mixing things. The BCR one seems to be a MA focused solely in dodge bonus. It's not enough to get NW and BCR and run with those..

    I am right now using my free respec to try this build with TK blade instead of Laser Sword. TK has 1 power that heals a lot. Too bad LS don't have one like this, Tk blades weren't exactly what I wanted, but I'm considering now.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    As I said to pantagruel01, I've seen DPS ppl on PH and PVP getting healed all the time, and I can't believe they all are BCR martial arts dodge focused toons.
    It's more specialized and not the norm for dps builds, but it might be that some of the PvE ones are using a Sentinel Mastery build combined w/ an AoE stun or hold. It's possible to heal quickly in AoE w/ multiple Sentinel Mastery procs paired w/ decent AoE attacks that hit at least somewhat frequently. The Mastery's heal is based on %maxHP, so even builds w/ weak bonus heal can get good mileage from it. Not sure if that's exactly what they are doing, but it is an option (ofc, those builds aren't optimal at dps either, but neither is any dps build that takes a tankier setup).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    okhayyino wrote: »
    As I said to pantagruel01, I've seen DPS ppl on PH and PVP getting healed all the time, and I can't believe they all are BCR martial arts dodge focused toons.
    PvP is very dissimilar to PvE. The basic problem with healing is that for every second you spend healing, your enemies get to spend an extra second damaging you, so if your heal per second is lower than your enemies' combined dps, that heal is completely useless while in combat (if you can get out of combat so they can't damage you, it's worthwhile). Resurgence and consumables are zero activation time (so actual time cost on the order of 0.25s) and easily pay off, HoTs can be activated before combat (costing zero time) but usually don't heal by enough to make a huge difference; most other healing is just not worthwhile on a dps until you've thinned the spawn out by a bit (bosses actually have relatively low damage output so it's more useful there).
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    Once you have your final gear and high end mods everything gets easier. Not super comforting while you are still trying to get the currency to get the gear, I know. It can be dispiriting dying a lot as you try to learn the QWZ mobs, Sometimes it also takes rethinking one's approach. If one thing isn't working, try doing it a different way (i.e. trying attacking a different part of a mob first, or start from a different angle).

    Note that it's also OK to cheat. My Professor Futureman is pretty squishy since he is dps with no real con. Sometimes, for example, when fighting worms, if I have already popped Resurgence and then get chain-knocked and start to take damage I will turtle in block mode and fly to the top of one of the towers and wait for my hit points to go up. Usually if I do that I have taken out 1-2 of them and they won't respawn very quickly. So even if the worms heal up I am still ahead of the game at that point (i.e. I only have 3 of them to contend with). At that point it is much easier to take out the remaining worms.

    Note 2: It is always faster/safer to do QWZ with another player who knows the ropes and can complement the build you bring. I mainly solo the QWZ to see which of my 60+ builds can handle it and to work out new approaches. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised that some build that I though wouldn't be able to handle it does just fine.

    Perseus has a partial 2nd set of gear for when he goes tanky. In dps role he is at ca. 8000 HP, when he is in tank role he is at 12,000. Note that since he is my main he has my best gear. All r9 mods, a DUC, etc. All that certainly helps!
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    okhayyino wrote: »
    (...)
    I am right now using my free respec to try this build with TK blade instead of Laser Sword. TK has 1 power that heals a lot. Too bad LS don't have one like this, Tk blades weren't exactly what I wanted, but I'm considering now.

    I believe that right now, what you need the most is practice and confidence.
    It's ok to retcon. Not cheap but ok.
    Tbh, I've retconned my actual tank 4 times before I found the build that performs well and fits my playstyle.

    I don't know many FF slots you have nor how many you can afford but ideally it would certainly be to have 1 Lasersword character and 1 Electric character to get experience on these 2 powersets.
  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    flowcyto wrote: »
    As I said to pantagruel01, I've seen DPS ppl on PH and PVP getting healed all the time, and I can't believe they all are BCR martial arts dodge focused toons.
    It's more specialized and not the norm for dps builds, but it might be that some of the PvE ones are using a Sentinel Mastery build combined w/ an AoE stun or hold. It's possible to heal quickly in AoE w/ multiple Sentinel Mastery procs paired w/ decent AoE attacks that hit at least somewhat frequently. The Mastery's heal is based on %maxHP, so even builds w/ weak bonus heal can get good mileage from it. Not sure if that's exactly what they are doing, but it is an option (ofc, those builds aren't optimal at dps either, but neither is any dps build that takes a tankier setup).

    The Sentinel Mastery did make a good difference. It heals about 390hp per tick and I already have 2 CC powers and 1 CC device. Testing in PTS, I did well in QWZ (with Endgame gear). Now, I'll test in live server with my current gear.

    EDIT: Ok, there is one more thing. Currentyl I have 2 power slots remaining which I am planning to use at least 1 on heals. Probably Conviction and Resurgence (or Unbreakable) or maybe Conviction and EmpHealing.

    If i were to get only 1 healing, which other power would be good to get? Maybe another CC for Sentinel Mastery? Or something to pump the DPS? The Active Offense power have a big cooldown. Does that powers that increase the next attack by an ammount worth it?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Well, as Panta mentioned, normal healing powers aren't as useful to a dps in combat since you can't dps while channeling or charging them, so I'd prob go w/ Resurgence and/or Conviction (unless you can drop combat or somehow hide to channel Empathic on yourself w/o taking dmg). On-Next Hit powers (like Sonic Device or Toxic Nanites) can be okay; like an AO, they aren't going to add a large amount to your dps, but they can help you squeeze a bit more out. Electric Sheath is an AO w/ a small dmg shield adv, while Lock N Load's Furious can give you Willpower for another small heal. An AoE knock could also be good, if you don't already have one, since it can continue to CC enemies that become stun-immune.

    Since there's many diff options that could help in some way, you can also opt to leave the last power slot and some adv points trained last, so if you ever change your mind then you can re-train it w/o costing as many resources. Prob the safe bet is just taking Resurgence and Conviction for now, but it's ultimately up to you, and ofc you can keep testing stuff (like weaker gear setups) in the PTS as well.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Well, as Panta mentioned, normal healing powers aren't as useful to a dps in combat since you can't dps while channeling or charging them, so I'd prob go w/ Resurgence and/or Conviction (unless you can drop combat or somehow hide to channel Empathic on yourself w/o taking dmg). On-Next Hit powers (like Sonic Device or Toxic Nanites) can be okay; like an AO, they aren't going to add a large amount to your dps, but they can help you squeeze a bit more out.

    Yeah, maybe those nex-hit bonus aren't worth the slot.
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Electric Sheath is an AO w/ a small dmg shield adv, while Lock N Load's Furious can give you Willpower for another small heal. An AoE knock could also be good, if you don't already have one, since it can continue to CC enemies that become stun-immune.

    What you mean continue to CC enemies that become CC immune? I thought after some CC they get immune and nothing would CC them...



  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    What you mean continue to CC enemies that become CC immune? I thought after some CC they get immune and nothing would CC them...
    Different general CC types tend to have different categories of resistances (that build to temp immunity at 3x stacks). It's not a universal CC immunity buff for trash, so you can still, say, knock something that has become stun/hold-immune (or vice versa), as their resistances build up separately. Now, most bosses are universally CC-immune from the get go, but that's obv a bit of a different situation.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    What you mean continue to CC enemies that become CC immune? I thought after some CC they get immune and nothing would CC them...
    Different general CC types tend to have different categories of resistances (that build to temp immunity at 3x stacks). It's not a universal CC immunity buff for trash, so you can still, say, knock something that has become stun/hold-immune (or vice versa), as their resistances build up separately. Now, most bosses are universally CC-immune from the get go, but that's obv a bit of a different situation.

    Ah, I see. I have 3 different kinds of CC: Elec Current, DK and PA. I invested more in Con and now I have more HP, which means I heal more with Mastery. Doing fine in QWZ (evn without full endgame gear), but only if I do everything right and don't attract more mobs.

    I wish I had a way to just vanish and stop being attacked. Currently, if something goes wrong, I just hit Resurgence and try to survive, sometimes it works, depending on how many mobs I attracted. I am very dependent on Resurgence when I get more mobs, which means that I can't do that in a short time.

    I am also still using EmpHealing, when I have space to run and heal at the same time. Maybe getting a Summon power that could take all the aggro for me? You think this is possible?

    Also, there is a mission in QWZ where you have to kill demons armies, that have those big monsters with more than 40kHP, which I can't do.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I am also still using EmpHealing, when I have space to run and heal at the same time. Maybe getting a Summon power that could take all the aggro for me? You think this is possible?
    Eh, pets won't draw much aggro in most cases, mostly cause their base dmg is so low. It prob won't work out well to try to depend on one, esp when you already generate threat via the self-healing. Threat wipes can put you in stealth, but if you get hit while using one it can break the stealth quickly, so that prob won't work either. It sounds like you'll just have to make sure w/ your positioning that you don't aggro any extra mobs (if there are any patrols in the area, idk) and/or don't get knocked into other things.

    One self-heal that can also be pretty good for solo is Bionic Shielding in Gadgeteering. I wouldn't suggest it for most dps builds, since dps normally shouldn't be getting hit enough in group content, and it also means a Support can't put a more powerful version of it on you (that's more relevant for Tanks who take it, though). But for solo it can be a nice extra self-heal cd (has an effective cd on the same target due to the tampering debuff).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • ragadolfragadolf Posts: 95 Arc User
    Just a thought, If your looking for a way to get out of imminent demise,
    I discovered that the basic Teleport power is also a good, quick 'get the heck out of Dodge' card. If you turn off your energy builder so you dont auto attack when you come out of it, you can usually get far enough away from whatever was killing you that you have time to heal, or do SOMEthing before they catch back up to you.
    Doesn't always work, sometimes is more luck than skill (with me anyway) but it does work. :)
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    My best friend and I do the QWZ together once a week. Even though he's been doing it for years now he still doesn't have a good idea of how the mobs are placed or their aggro range. He still flies right above a mob, gets their aggro, drags them over to me, gets himself killed and forces me to do something fancy to get out of the way. He has poor situational awareness.

    One of the things that will help you stay alive is to know how to position yourself at the start of a combat so that you don't aggro 2 mobs. Also, it's good not to have your back to another not-too-distant mob. Nothing ruins a dps's day like get knocked back into a 2nd mob you weren't counting on!
    okhayyino wrote: »
    I wish I had a way to just vanish and stop being attacked. Currently, if something goes wrong, I just hit Resurgence and try to survive, sometimes it works, depending on how many mobs I attracted. I am very dependent on Resurgence when I get more mobs, which means that I can't do that in a short time.

    Also, there is a mission in QWZ where you have to kill demons armies, that have those big monsters with more than 40kHP, which I can't do.

    Is this Ending the Nightmare? The one where you have a Demolisher who always has his 2 Brutes with him. That can be tough for a DPS. Best strategy I've found is to open on one of the Brutes with your most powerful Alpha along with any AO, on-next-hits and powerful devices. Burn the one Brute down fast, then retreat quickly and heal up. That first Brute won't respawn for awhile. Once you have your HP back take out the 2nd Brute in the same way. The Demolisher has a lot of HP, but he doesn't hit ALL that hard. Conviction, Resurgence and the occasional potion should keep you alive until you wear him down. If you have the option, attack him at range too. Be aware of your position so a knock does not put you near some adjacent mob with another Brute!
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    ragadolf wrote: »
    Just a thought, If your looking for a way to get out of imminent demise,
    I discovered that the basic Teleport power is also a good, quick 'get the heck out of Dodge' card. If you turn off your energy builder so you dont auto attack when you come out of it, you can usually get far enough away from whatever was killing you that you have time to heal, or do SOMEthing before they catch back up to you.
    Doesn't always work, sometimes is more luck than skill (with me anyway) but it does work. :)

    I thought about that and I used to have TP, but it doesn't stop damage immediatly. So, when you try to teleport you keep getting heavy dmg and without blocking, which means I always die that way.

    Unless you teleport very early in battle.
  • okhayyinookhayyino Posts: 43 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    My best friend and I do the QWZ together once a week. Even though he's been doing it for years now he still doesn't have a good idea of how the mobs are placed or their aggro range. He still flies right above a mob, gets their aggro, drags them over to me, gets himself killed and forces me to do something fancy to get out of the way. He has poor situational awareness.

    One of the things that will help you stay alive is to know how to position yourself at the start of a combat so that you don't aggro 2 mobs. Also, it's good not to have your back to another not-too-distant mob. Nothing ruins a dps's day like get knocked back into a 2nd mob you weren't counting on!
    okhayyino wrote: »
    I wish I had a way to just vanish and stop being attacked. Currently, if something goes wrong, I just hit Resurgence and try to survive, sometimes it works, depending on how many mobs I attracted. I am very dependent on Resurgence when I get more mobs, which means that I can't do that in a short time.

    Also, there is a mission in QWZ where you have to kill demons armies, that have those big monsters with more than 40kHP, which I can't do.

    Is this Ending the Nightmare? The one where you have a Demolisher who always has his 2 Brutes with him. That can be tough for a DPS. Best strategy I've found is to open on one of the Brutes with your most powerful Alpha along with any AO, on-next-hits and powerful devices. Burn the one Brute down fast, then retreat quickly and heal up. That first Brute won't respawn for awhile. Once you have your HP back take out the 2nd Brute in the same way. The Demolisher has a lot of HP, but he doesn't hit ALL that hard. Conviction, Resurgence and the occasional potion should keep you alive until you wear him down. If you have the option, attack him at range too. Be aware of your position so a knock does not put you near some adjacent mob with another Brute!

    Yes, I guess DPS will always have to worry with HP and aggro and not attracting mobs. I believe this is the one. I remember having a Demolisher, brutes and some minor monsters too. I think I can kill a brute with shadow strike, but then they just get all over me.

    Gonna try the kill-run-heal-kill approach.
  • ragadolfragadolf Posts: 95 Arc User
    okhayyino wrote: »
    ragadolf wrote: »
    Just a thought, If your looking for a way to get out of imminent demise,
    I discovered that the basic Teleport power is also a good, quick 'get the heck out of Dodge' card. If you turn off your energy builder so you dont auto attack when you come out of it, you can usually get far enough away from whatever was killing you that you have time to heal, or do SOMEthing before they catch back up to you.
    Doesn't always work, sometimes is more luck than skill (with me anyway) but it does work. :)

    I thought about that and I used to have TP, but it doesn't stop damage immediatly. So, when you try to teleport you keep getting heavy dmg and without blocking, which means I always die that way.

    Unless you teleport very early in battle.

    Ah yes, ALSO true! If you use it when you only have a sliver of health left, it is probably too late. Especially if your MOB has DOT'ed you.
    Like I said, with me it is as much skill as luck, doesn't always work, but when it does, YAY!

    Surprisingly, I discovered that TUNNELING is similar. It prevents most (I think it is all but VERY high lvl/type mobs) from being able to target you. (Directly, AoE can still hit you though!) And you can run away faster than (most) can/will chase you down. And when you choose to end it and pop back up, you get a buff that helps reduce damage for a few precious seconds.

    Both TP and tunneling are great for getting into the middle of a mob and starting to lay down whatever your using before they react to you. Spinntop has a video where his 'stunning sorcerer' TP's into middle of a mob, and he lays down all 3 of his Sigils before they react to him. Usually,...

    FYI I also am not 'the good' at QWZ, and am looking for ways to figure out how to make some of MY squishy toons survive it, or at least die less often.
    ( I HATE the escort mission you get near start of QWZ, stupid critter keeps moving and aggro'ing more mobs while your trying to deal with the first one!)

    Kill-Run-Heal-Kill, rinse, repeat is a valid strategy! Good luck!
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