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Help with Hybrid DPS build
okhayyino
Posts: 43 Arc User
Hello. I would really appreciate if I could get some help here with this build, since I've already tried a lot of things and I just didn't got what I wanted yet.
The build is a Hybrid DPS (melee/ranged), but a lot more focused in melee. My goal is to have a good DPS, but still have a nice survavibility, to try solo missions too.
It is inspired in SW Siths, so I chose Electricity and Laser Sword as my powers, with some other cool ones. Here's the build:
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=&d=11250h1EFa7801307310001109A105A303A903A500JF00J3031I03OA03EF03G7009G0038003bCQ2MGB11KW10000000000&e=
Some considerations:
-I tried to change to Dex primary and Str/Ego secundary, but it didn't work as I wanted. I find that Enrage is way easier to stack than Form of the Tempest
- I just can't survive without Regeneration. I even got Night Warrior to use when I really want to deal more DPS and have healers (like Cosmics fights)
- My main issue is that I can't deal a good DPS with laser sword. Its damage is low and its energy cost is medium-high. So, in groups I *try* to use the area attacks of laser sword, and against single targets I just spam Mighty Kick (that is fast, cheap and strong) with the debuff. And when I don't feel like going melee or the enemy is just too far away, I use electricity.
-Chest beam is there just for the particle and crushing debuff, if it's not worth it or there is another way I would like to change it, since it does not go well with the concept of a Sith.
- Force Geyser is there to stack Enraged with a long ranged, fast and cheap power. Also, it's a Force power, so it goes well with the Sith concept.
So, should I keep STR as primary or change to DEX? Should I take Luminescent Slash (It's not energy cheap as Mighty Kick)? I want to try to keep powers from Electricity, Laser Sword and any hand-to-hand AT. Also, I miss AoE electricity powers, would change Chain Lightning to Electric Current a bad idea (wil lose the debuff).
The build is a Hybrid DPS (melee/ranged), but a lot more focused in melee. My goal is to have a good DPS, but still have a nice survavibility, to try solo missions too.
It is inspired in SW Siths, so I chose Electricity and Laser Sword as my powers, with some other cool ones. Here's the build:
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=35&n=&d=11250h1EFa7801307310001109A105A303A903A500JF00J3031I03OA03EF03G7009G0038003bCQ2MGB11KW10000000000&e=
Some considerations:
-I tried to change to Dex primary and Str/Ego secundary, but it didn't work as I wanted. I find that Enrage is way easier to stack than Form of the Tempest
- I just can't survive without Regeneration. I even got Night Warrior to use when I really want to deal more DPS and have healers (like Cosmics fights)
- My main issue is that I can't deal a good DPS with laser sword. Its damage is low and its energy cost is medium-high. So, in groups I *try* to use the area attacks of laser sword, and against single targets I just spam Mighty Kick (that is fast, cheap and strong) with the debuff. And when I don't feel like going melee or the enemy is just too far away, I use electricity.
-Chest beam is there just for the particle and crushing debuff, if it's not worth it or there is another way I would like to change it, since it does not go well with the concept of a Sith.
- Force Geyser is there to stack Enraged with a long ranged, fast and cheap power. Also, it's a Force power, so it goes well with the Sith concept.
So, should I keep STR as primary or change to DEX? Should I take Luminescent Slash (It's not energy cheap as Mighty Kick)? I want to try to keep powers from Electricity, Laser Sword and any hand-to-hand AT. Also, I miss AoE electricity powers, would change Chain Lightning to Electric Current a bad idea (wil lose the debuff).
0
Comments
Anyways, the build seems a bit too unfocused w/ all of its powers, and is prob trying to do too much in one build. You could take the approach of using melee for single-target dps (since melee tends to fare better there) and ranged for AoE (since ranged tends to have wider AoE). Going w/ that route means you'll have to cut out some powers, but it could improve the build's performance. One way you could also help w/ energy is to get FotTempest, but also throw in an MA Dragon move for Rush, and that could also help satisfy the hand-to-hand aspect a bit. Here's an example build:
(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.43:35
Super Stats
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
Talents
Level 1: The Chiller (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
Level 6: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 18: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Powers
Level 1: Electric Bolt
Level 1: Lightspeed Strike (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Electrical Current (Rank 2, Bad Wiring)
Level 8: Regeneration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Form of the Tempest
Level 14: Ionic Reverberation
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Luminescent Slash (Rank 2, End of the Line)
Level 23: Ball Lightning (Triplicity)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 29: Dragon Kick (Dragon Rush)
Level 32: Laser Deflection (Rank 2)
Level 35: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 33/36
Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:
Specializations
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Brawler: The Glory of Battle (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Brawler: Flanking (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
The open power slot can be w/e ya want.
The main single-target rotation here is to keep Ball Lit up (for Ionic Reverb), use the charged Dragon move for Rush (I chose DK here for the look and the close-up AoE option, though you can pick DU instead if you want more of a single-target focus), and otherwise alternate between Lightspeed Strike and charged Lume Slash. For AoE, you can keep Ball Lit up and otherwise use Elec Current as your main attack (or, if using DK, get up in melee and spam charged DK while using Ball Lit). Gears mostly for Dex, w/ some Con and Rec.
Ideally, you'll want to use NW as the passive and be in the Melee dps role, but you can change to the Ranged dps role when grinding weak mobs w/ Ball Lit and Elec Current, and use Regen + the Hybrid role for when you want to turtle up.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I am very aware that I will not have such a high DPS as melee or ranged focused builds, and I'm ok with that. I am willing to give up some 1k DPS to be a hybrid.
Now, I noticed that you changed the SuperStats. Why do you think Dex would be a better DPS than Str? And why you droped Ego too?
I can only imagine the answer is to make a crit DPS, in this case working for both melee and ranged DPS. I did think about that too, and even tried to test it in Powerhouse. Houwever, the critical chance that Dex gives is not so much, very high Dex still leaves you with less than 40%. While Str and Ego affect directly in the melee and ranged damage.
By changing to Dex, you also changed the Form to Tempest, that stack with critical hits. Do you think that is a good idea? Enrage stacks with knocks, which is under the player control. When you see that the stacks time is running out, you use a power that knocks. Or even better, use one that knocks as you main attack (like I did with Mighty Kick and Lightwave Slash).
When I changed to Dex primary, I got about 36% Critical Chance and it was not so easy to keep the stacks always on 8 without depleting my energy. So, do you think it's possible (and better) to keep Enraged in this build? What should be changed for that?
Other thing I noticed, was that you dropped all the debuffs (except for Lightspeed Strike). You dropped Chain Lightning (electricity debuff) and Chest Beam (crushing and particle debuff). Are debuffs not needed or simply not so much of a difference?
I also noted that you dropped Lightning Arc, which seems to be the highest DPS of electricity. I understand that's because its a single target power and your idea is to use electricity in mobs. That's ok.
Is getting Ionic Reverberation a good idea? I mean, when on melee it not will give me energy at all... Maybe Power Conversion would be better.
Why get Conviction and Resurgence, since I am getting Regeneration? Convictions heals so little (Presence is 10) and Resurgence has a high cooldown time. This makes them pratically useless to me. I believe you put them there to be used when in DPS role, but I tested them in powerhouse and I can't survive at all with them. Also, my DPS role will only be active when in a group with lots of healers.
Ok, now I see what's your idea with Dragon Rush. I loved the idea of using the hand-to-hand this way. But it would require to change the Form and SS. What you think if i try it again with Dex primary and Str/Ego secundary? I plan to get just enough Rec and End with talents and gear
Laser Sword has good dps (much better than mighty kick), but you didn't take the powers that have good dps (lightspeed strike, like all combos, has modest dps and is designed to set up debuffs for use by higher tier powers; lightwave slash is normally used as a stack refresh, not primary damage); the primary dps in laser swords is 'spam lightspeed strike for 5 stacks plasma burn and disintegrate, then use luminescent slash with occasional taps of lightwave slash (light mend, burn bright) to refresh your stacks. This is a setup that requires a lot of energy management, however.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Also, debuffs are nice, if they are boosting your main attacks. Chest Beam can be fine to add, though you'd have to make room in the rotation and build for it, when it's already pretty crowded (and Chest Beam is a bit costly). Superconductor would work okay w/ Ball Lit (and Ball Lit can refresh it w/ the 1-pt adv) and Elec Current. However, Ball Lit is still only a smaller portion of the single-target dmg in my build, and debuffing is generally not as important or efficient for AoE- since trash tends to die pretty quickly, regardless. Disintegrate is already covered by the basic combo, ofc.
For some of the other concerns: My build worked pretty smoothly for me in the PH, and I had around just 400 Dex, 70 Rec, and 15 End for it (and other combos of Dex/Rec/End could also prob work fine). Energy really wasn't much of a problem, as long as I kept Ball Lit (for Ionic Reverb) and Rush up. The RNG factor of FotT is pretty moot when you have all of that extra energy flowing in, and having the combo in the rotation (for Brawler's Setup) lowers the energy demand a good deal anyways. Even then, you could use something like Power Conversion if you really wanted to secure your energy, though that comes with a small dmg/heal penalty (and takes up a power slot), and wasn't necessary for me.
As far as the heals- I'd prob keep Resurgence, since it's a strong AD and can be good to have if things go south or get tough, but you can drop Conviction if you don't find that you need the extra healing (and yea, I mostly added it for the dps version).
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Ofc, if the OP wants a more focused LS/melee build, I'd be happy to help there too.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Ok, that's why in the initial build (Enrage) I got Force Geyser (100ft range, low cost, instant knock). In flowcyto build (Form of the Tempest), both melee/ranged will stack forms because of crits.
Ok, I actually like this option. The main issue is going to be energy. While Mighty Kick deals a little less DPS than Luminescent Slash, it cost less than half energy.
Also, why always keep plasma burn always at 5? Doesn't it would lower the DPS, since I will have to spam lightspeed strike, and they take a while to stack?
What you mean soft-cap at 70? Could you explain how the caps work? With about 200 STR I get around 30% bonus in melee, and I think that's good. Same for Ego and ranged.
My primary SS will always be the one that stacks my form. And secondary SS does not affect spec trees. So I guess secondary SS are just a way to get those stats higher. Altough some powers (and spec trees options) are affected by secondary SS. So my plan was to get Rec and End just enough to fullfil my energy needs (maybe around 80) and have STR and EGO as high as possible for damage.
I understand. There's no need to have debuffs for all attacks. In case I pick Lightning Strike for higher single target ranged DPS, do you think it makes much difference if I take Chain Lightning too, for the debuff?? Or it's not worth one power? I really don't understand this game calculations...
You mean you made this build and tested in powerhouse? Also, what was your rotation? Did you included Ball Lit in your melee rotation?
I was tinking about Lightspeed Dash>Dragon kick>spam Lightspeed Strike (don't know how much yet)>Luminescent Slash for melee
And Dragon Kick(it rushes even without targets)>Ball Lit>Lightning Arc or Electric Current (single or mob) for ranged.
Ok, I will have heal devices for that case. I hate high cooldown powers.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
You mean Lightwave Slash, right? Lightwave Slash is an AoE and not the main power of the rotation. Lightspeed slash is, and it doesn't affect plasma burns.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Alright. The soft-cap means that once you hit that point in the stat (here, 70 Ego_Str), any further points in it will give reduced return per added point (and a 'hard-cap' would mean that it stops giving any return past that point at all, but that's not applicable here). In this case, Str_Ego's dmg bonuses get reduced from about +0.3% dmg per point to about +0.075% dmg per point. Also keep in mind that there's a diminished return on general dmg bonuses as well (w/ regard to their effect on final dmg), such that your +30% could be more like only +2-5% final dmg after the DR. It's hard to say what your exact value would be, as it would depend on your stats, but generally dps builds get hit the most cause they have the most dmg bonuses to be higher in the DR.
SSS's can be used for a number of things- it'll kinda just depend on what you want to shore up w/ your build (more health, more crit, more energy, more CC resist, more bonus healing, etc). As a dps, typically you want your toggle/form's stat to be your most-geared stat, regardless. Ofc, keep in mind that it can be okay to have your main stat *not* be your PSS stat- as long as your main stat is still SS'd somewhere. You can read up more general info in Kamo's End-Game DPS sticky here, if you haven't already:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1208228/endgame-dps-build-guide/p1
Usually, -resist% to dmg is pretty straightforward (so lowering your target's resistance to Particle dmg by 18% will mean you do ~18% more dmg to it w/ Particle, etc). There are defense penetration effects that can't reduce your target's resistance below 0% (Int PSS's DVuln, Night Warrior's -resist, and the Depleted Uranium Core mod are notable examples), but most other debuffs can take resistance past 0% (like Disintegrate or Superconductor).
In your case, aside from Disintegrate, Burn Through from Chest Beam could still potentially be worthwhile (assuming you want to lean heavy into Laser Sword still). Ofc, you have to fit it into your build and rotation, but I also wouldn't deem it as that important, if you already have one valid debuff and there's theme issues.
Yeah, I tested it in the PH before I posted it, just cause I wanted to make sure that the power interactions could be made to work smoothly in practice.
I was using Ball Lit even in the melee rotation, cause it (+ Triple adv) can apply/refresh Negative Ions pretty frequently, which can make it quite good for energy return when paired w/ Ionic Reverb as the energy unlock. My basic rotation was to keep Ball Lit on cd while alternating between the combo and charged Lume Slash, and also throwing in DK for Rush (I settled into using charged DK after refreshing Ball Lit, once FotT stacks built up a bit, but you don't have to have to use that exact rotation- as long as your energy is usually high for Lume Slash and you have Setup for it, then you're generally gtg).
And yea, AoE can either be Ball Lit + charged DK spam (for being up in melee), or Ball Lit + Elec Current spam (for staying at ranged). It should be pretty easy to manage, either way.
-
Hope that answered some of your concerns. If you're curious about making more of a standard LS build let us know. Keep in mind that you may have to drop some (or even most) of the non-LS powers for it, so it's just up to you on what direction you want to take w/ the character.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Ok, that's kinda what i thought it was. But I didn't know the values. Are you sure it begins in 70? And in this case, how much STR and EGO you think I should get?
Even with the soft-cap, the more STR and EGO the better. While with REC or END, there will be a value that they are just not needed, and a low one, according to your energy management techniques of your build.
I did read it, and it is very informative. it doesn't explain well about caps nor SS choices. I would love to know how much points in my stats I should have for a good build.
In this build case, I had this in mind:
Str - 220
Dex - as much as possible, probably around 450;
Ego - 220
Rec - 80
End - 50
What you think?
My gear is about rank 5 yet. When I get Distinguished gear maybe I can get more...
Yeah, I tested it in the PH before I posted it, just cause I wanted to make sure that the power interactions could be made to work smoothly in practice.[/QUOTE]
Just curious, how did you test? You have a lvl 40 char constantly inside powerhouse, or you have several retcon tokens?
Hm.. Do you think DK would be efficient in AoE DPS? More than a lightwave slash (I'm thinking about getting it)?
You are definitelly helping a lot, and I thank you. You say standard LS build. What more a standard build would have? I mean, besides the Lightwave slash to refresh the plasma burns and debuff...
Yea, it starts at 70. I wouldn't really get any Str or Ego- at least for my build, since they aren't SS'd there (nor do they scale up FotT), and if I cared about the soft-cap I'd likely be getting an AoPM buff in harder group content anyways.
Well, it'll depend on your SS setup, since your SS's scale up your slotted passive, interact w/ your specs, and give you bonuses based on your role. In my build, since Ego and Str aren't SS'd, I wouldn't be gearing for them at all. Instead, I'd max out Dex while getting enough Rec and End to have smooth energy when testing (which obv wasn't that much, in this case). If I wanted to be a bit sturdier, I'd maybe get some Con, provided it was SS'd (but that's more for stuff outside of Cosmics, since having good blocking is more important for Cosmics than having a bit more health).
Yea, I have a max-level toon that just sits in the PH for testing purposes, as well as a toon on the PTS to test things there. It's generally fine as long as they don't leave the PH w/o a clean slate.
In this case, Lightwave Slash can't give you Rush, while DK can do double duty of giving you Rush and a solid melee AoE.
It's a diff story in a pure LS build, where Lightwave can double as a quick debuff refresher (when tapped) and an AoE, though.
Sure thing. Well, it generally means more things from LS- like using its toggle/form and/or EU, etc. Changing even those things can change your stat focus, and also change what sort of attacks can easily be made to work in the build. In the case of LS, though, prob the best dps results are from using FotTiger as the toggle/form, since it works w/ Lume Slash and Lightwave being charged melee attacks, and Dex is generally the best dps-related stat. If you want a reference for a single-target focused LS dps build, then here's a basic one that gives you most of the core powers, while leaving some options open:
(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Melee Damage)
v3.43:35
Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)
Talents
Level 1: The Blade (Str: 10, Dex: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 21: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Powers
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Lightspeed Strike (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Unified Theory
Level 8: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Lightwave Slash (Light Mend, Burn Bright)
Level 14: Form of the Tiger
Level 17: Lightspeed Dash (Download)
Level 20: Luminescent Slash (Rank 2, End of the Line)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Laser Deflection (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Power Conversion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 28/36
Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:
Specializations
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Overpower (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Brawler: The Glory of Battle (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (2/3)
Brawler: Flanking (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
I included Power Conversion at the end, in case you were still having energy issues (which is likely when using Lume Slash often). Other SS setups could work here, like DEX/End/Rec_Str_Con or END/Dex/Rec_Str_Con (the 3rd SS is kinda more up in the air), but they all stay Dex-focused. There's many other options for the slotted dps passive that can work too- like Quantum Stabilizer, WotW, Unstoppable, or Electric Form. You could even consider adding back in a Dragon move for Rush, since you're still using an MA toggle/form here. So, you do have many other options that you can try, even for the LS-focused build. It's prob best to test any variants yourself, though, as energy is tied pretty heavily to gear and buffs, and that can change a good deal from player to player.
Keep in mind that using LS's EU and FotTiger will basically make using any ranged attack (and many other types of melee attacks) not really viable, as they won't be working with your toggle/form and/or EU. Just letting you know that, in case you decide to go down this sort of route for your character.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Well, is not because there's a soft-cap starting at 70 that you won't benefit by having those stats (Str/Ego) high. You still can get a good bonus in damage. I believe the decrease in bonus percentage is not linear and is it is still good around 200 stat points.
Also, as you said, you tested the build with just 70 Rec and 15 End, so making them SS and getting more much more than that is not necessary. I plan to have my secondary SS close to 150-200, so it's better to get End and Rec like 80 each and increase the other DPS stats (Dex,Str,Ego).
Unless you planned to keep them at this low level and use *all* gear for Dex. Is that the case? How much in the other stats would you plan to get?
Also, I heard Str spec tree is better for crits than Dex, is that true? If that's the case, should I get Str primary or this would ruin the build? Can't remember if any power scales with primary SS...
Sure thing. Well, it generally means more things from LS- like using its toggle/form and/or EU, etc. Changing even those things can change your stat focus, and also change what sort of attacks can easily be made to work in the build. In the case of LS, though, prob the best dps results are from using FotTiger as the toggle/form, since it works w/ Lume Slash and Lightwave being charged melee attacks, and Dex is generally the best dps-related stat. If you want a reference for a single-target focused LS dps build, then here's a basic one that gives you most of the core powers, while leaving some options open (...).[/quote]
Nice. I'd rather use your hybrid suggestion, though. Would this last build rotation be what I said it would be?
Even without End as a SSS or Dragon Kick w/Rush I don't really have any energy issues (His gear gives him lots of cost reduction). His Dex is 641, so when he charges Luminescent Slash he gets 74 energy (he gets 20 from Unified Theory). He has TC because stuns are handy. Tornado Slash is also nice, but benefits from a full charge. Particle Wave could be nice if you don't need a stun and wanted to stay LS. Neuroelectric Pulse is "just in case" energy.
Speed Daemon 8 - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.43:35
Super Stats
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)
Talents
Level 1: The Chiller (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
Level 6: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Powers
Level 1: Electric Bolt
Level 1: Lightspeed Strike (Particle Acceleration, Legacy Code)
Level 6: Lightwave Slash (Light Mend, Burn Bright)
Level 8: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Thunderclap
Level 17: Neuroelectric Pulse
Level 20: Luminescent Slash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Point Blank Blast)
Level 29: Unified Theory
Level 32: Meltdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Unstoppable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Form of the Tiger
Adv. Points: 36/36
Travel Powers
Level 6: Electric Speed (Rank 2)
Level 35: Electro Flight (Rank 2)
Specializations
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Power Swell (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
Devices
I'm a bit unsure what you mean here. But there's two different aspects there that lower the effectiveness of Ego and Str for their general (non-SS) dmg bonuses: the soft-cap means that Str_Ego past that point aren't efficient for the dmg bonus (vs. putting points elsewhere), and the passive dmg DR means that their effect on final dmg will be further reduced (sometimes greatly, like in the case of dps builds).
Having either of them SS'd is a bit of a different story, since SSs have many other benefits, but that's not really specific to Str or Ego either. In that case, a Str-focused build using Enrage, for ex, should still go high-Str, but more for the form/toggle (Enrage), the slotted passive, and certain specs (like Str PSS's Overpower) scaling w/ it. In that case, you're not gearing Str just for the innate melee dmg bonus. It's more of a minor side-perk then, w/ the main attraction being all the other scaling effects and interactions.
Well I don't have any plans for it cause its not my build to use 8)
For you, it would just depend on what you want to prioritize, or just what your goals are for the build. Since my build got Con SS, it could put some there for the health boost, or it could just focus more on Dex for higher dps and thus go for a more glass-cannon route. As I alluded to before, I typically wouldn't get much (or anything) in non-SSs, cause the opportunity cost is pretty high (as non-SSs don't give general role-based bonuses, don't boost your slotted passive, nor do they interact w/ most specs).
I guess that'd be referring to Str PSS's Overpower, but still using Dex SS for the crit boost. A Str-heavy build w/ Overpower but no Dex wouldn't have more melee crit than just a Dex-focused build, but Overpower can add some extra crit on top, and the flat % isn't affected by any DR to boot.
I actually gave you an example of a Str PSS + Dex SS setup in that LS build (and that build got 3/3 Overpower). Ofc, it's just one of many diff setups that can give you good numbers w/ LS, but it's a valid approach nonetheless.
If you mean the one that Panta helped outlined earlier, then yea: put up 5x PBurn (and Disintegrate) w/ the Lightspeed combo, and then use charged Lume Slash as the main filler attack, while tapping Lightwave Slash to refresh debuffs (and proc the EU).
Since FotTiger won't proc on the combo, you may want to throw in some charged Lume Slashes while building up the 5x PB at first. Power Conversion can also be used on cd to help w/ energy, if needed (and/or use a charged Dragon move w/ Rush, if you opted for that). There's also Download (from the lunge's adv) that can also help reduce costs a bit, and Lume Slash (w/ adv) can refresh that buff (since you don't normally want to spam the lunge, as its a low-dps attack).
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
My point is there is no other stat to choose as secondary SS that would benefit more than Str or Ego. Maybe Con and that's it.
I see. But your Str primary build wasnt a crit build. I mean, you would gear more for Str than Dex, right? Since you form is the Tiger and not Tempest..
For your first build, the one with elec and LS powers and Form of the Tempest, would have STR primary and Dex secondary, but gear Dex up to 400-500 and leave Str with about 200 better? I mean, keep it as a crit build, but with Str primary?
Nah, FotTiger also scales w/ Dex (all of MA's toggle/forms do, and their tooltips have more info like that), so that build is still Dex-heavy. It just uses Str PSS for other perks (like the innate knock resist that Str provides, Physical Peak, Brutality, etc).
Yea, STR/Dex/Rec (still Dex-focused) can still work as an option there. Typically there's >1 SS setup that can work fine for a build. I usually just give a few examples, cause going through everything for all the builds I have to do would be exhausting
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I still have to work on the rotation, though. Sometimes I see myself out of energy because I forgot to use Ball Lit or Dragon Kick. Also, in a high DPS fight, like Cosmics, should I use Lightspeed Strike? Or the low damage (even with the plasma burns) are not worth it agains a single target?
One more thing. I got Lightning Arc, but couldn't manage to upgrade it any rank. I feel that it does more damage than electric current (which is rank 1 and got bad wiring adv). I bought FotT rank , because this way I can use DK initially and get rush at least for 3secs. Should I change those adv points to Lightning Arc ranks? Or you think I should drop Lightning Arc and use only Elec Current and get some other power?
Anyways, the main reason I gave you Elec Current (fitting theme aside) is that it's a ranged AoE and CC. LArc is a high-dmg single-target attack, so they fill somewhat different niches. It's not that LArc is bad- it won't be optimal in a primarily melee build still- it's just that the build was already kinda crowded, and I had to make some power cuts to focus the build a bit more. I choose to keep the ranged AoE + stun instead of the longer-ranged single-target attack, simply because I figured the AoE/CC option would offer a bit more uses overall, but ofc that could be different for you in practice.
And yeah, I still used Lightspeed in the rotation pretty regularly. It still puts up Disintegrate and PBurn, and makes energy management a good bit easier, since it's quite cheaper than Lume Slash. As you get better gear and better at the rotation, you can lessen the amount of Lightspeeds you do to fit in more Lume Slashes for a bit more single-target dps (getting energy-boosting buffs like AoPM and/or AoAC also means that you can fit in more Lumes). It's a bit of a balancing act with your energy, in that case, but it does make the rotation a bit more dynamic.
I also prob wouldn't rank up FotT normally. When starting out, you could just lean on using Lightspeed Strike a bit more till you have some more stacks of the form. It won't be as high dps at the start, but you will put up 5x PBurn faster that way, at least, and it shouldn't take too long to get some decent stacks of the form going.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Even in hybrid (with regen), I die easily in Lairs or Qlipho, when doing solo. How do DPS, that doens't even have regen, manage to solo this places?
Also, how much Dex should I get before I start gearing for the secondary SS? I mean, about that soft cap thingy...
You also need to develop a sense of which enemies to take out first and what their attack patterns are. E.g. when I am at worms in QWZ I usually take out Followers first, then Sorcerers, then either Annelids or Substantiators. The reason is that the Followers will heal everyone else like crazy and the Sorcerers put up force fields. That gives the worms amazing toughness. You probably won't take them down fast enough before they all gang up on you if you don't take out the Followers and Sorcerers first and fast. Also, some of the worms (HIgh Annelids, iirc) will summon 3 Mind Worms which can be quite deadly, even to a tank. It's perfectly OK to trick the HA into spawning them in one location and then retreating some distance away so that their attacks can't reach you anymore. Blocking at certain times is important (getting knocked can lead to death). IOW, sometimes you have to be patient and take your time, taking down the enemies in a certain order. The Sharks and Destroids have their own patterns too, but nothing is insurmountable.
Take healing potions too!
Once you have a sense what your enemies do, and when, QWZ will be a lot easier. This week I am soling it with a healer. Takes a little time, and my actions have to be quick and in a certain order, but if I follow the program it works fine.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I typed that before I saw the other replies, but they give some good pointers, and yeah- you may just have to practice the encounters a bit till you get more familiar w/ the enemies, what they do, and how you can better face them. A build can take you pretty far, but practicing the fights can take you very far.
Dex doesn't have a soft-cap like Ego/Str, though notably the crit rating it gives does have its own DR. Assuming you are still using FotT, then Dex should still be your main stat anyways- at least when playing as a committed dps.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
The critical chance doesn't have a soft cap? Then whyit is no linear? The more I incrase Dex, the less Crit chance increases?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I might be wrong, but I believe both Crit Chance and Toggle Form bonus has soft-caps (the higher they get, the lower the bonus).
Ok, about the build survivability, I am having real trouble in QWZ and sometimes in Cosmics. In the case of Cosmics, it's not frequent, but sometimes even while blocking, if the Cosmic deals about 3 powerfull strikes in a short time, I'm dead. Or, if i miss one single block and the Cosmic does another attack, I'm dead.
I only have about 5,2k HP.
In QWZ, it is very, very hard to survive a single mob. I've tried CC sorcerers with Ego Sleep, but it won't last much. The times I could solo a mob was when my FotT was already with 8 stacks and my energy bar was almost full from a previous fight. Of course, using the Regen hybrid role.
Now, I was thinking of ways to survive better, since even regen isn't doing great in those cases. I thought of these options:
- Increase Con and get more HP: This can be done in 2 ways. Change my Ego secondary SS to Con (that should give me about 7-8k HP, I think. Or just increase Con with gears, which sould give about 6k HP (maybe more, when I get OV secondary gear).
-Increase Defense: Don't know exactly how to do that, since my only source of defense is Core mods on Defense gear and I alrady have a r6 one
- Drop Regen and use some kind of heal: I tried bountiful chi before, but it just isn't enough. Even with PH demons mobs. Bount just don't heal enough, about 150HP, while enemies deal more than 300 (in QWZ would be about 1k). Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I could try another power. Although they all have a too big cooldown or just don't heal enough to make any difference.
So, what would you suggest?
Yeah, I'd prob first try getting Con SS (and then since it's SS'd, you won't lose quite as much dmg from gearing it, since SS'd stats still give a general dmg bonus and boost your slotted passive). If you want more defense, you could get a bit more w/ Warden + Vindicator (Wardicator) or Warden + Guardian specs. This will lower your optimal dmg a bit, but will give you a decent balance between offense and defense. Getting the block to R3 can also be nice, if you haven't already.
You could also try using R3 Invuln as your defensive passive, since it has quite higher passive mitigation than Regen, though then you'll prob want a normal self-heal power to help replace Regen's innate one.
You mentioned CCing w/ Ego Sleep, but Sleep will break to most any inc dmg (save for some of TP's DoT powers). Stuns, while short, won't break early to inc dmg. That's why attacks like DK or Elec Current w/ adv can be pretty handy (and you could also get an AoE knock to continue CC'ing mobs after they become stun-immune, if you have the room for it).
Good luck finding success, regardless. Hope you find an option that works for you.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Ok, I swaped my secondary SS from Str and Ego to Str and Con. Testing right now. It doesn't seem to make much difference, but I'm not fully geared with Con yet.
If I were to use only 1 passive slotted (NW) and never leave DPS role, how would I be able to heal? What healing power does most of DPS people use to survive when soloing? I know people like Resurgence, but what if you need to heal in an interval smaller than 1 min?
Good question. I don't play dps but I would like to know too because, from my own experience, if there's not a tank to steal aggro and a healer to heal them up, a dps die.
I remember the last Nightmare event and so many dps were looking for help.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
All of those heal less than 200 HP unless you have Presence. Potions and the ones that heal more (Resurgence) has more than 1min cooldown.
Are DPS faded to depend on a group?
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
In almost all content before end game a decent FF dps (and many AT dps) can just burn through the opposition like its almost not there. In end game, the secret, above all else, is knowing when to block and also when to throw in a CC to buy yourself some time. Most of the time my light hp DPS only die at cosmics when I am held/knocked and miss a block. Soloing QWZ can be a little tricky. Sometimes you have to do a little cat and mouse. It's quite possible to solo QWZ with a healer though. Another useful trick is to buy a self rez, so you aren't so reliant on healers.
-ADs: You mean advantages? Can you provide a good example of some?
-Self-heals: Unless you're a healer all self heals heals about 150Hp/s or less. In QWZ that's is not even close to be enough for soloing.
-Potions (and Resurgence, the only self-heal that doens't require Presence): they have 1min cooldown. So, even if you only had to use 1 in a mob you have to wait 1 min between every mob. And buy a LOT of potions.
-CC/Strong opening/good blocking: Those are very good, and I'd say essential for soloing. But you still going to get hit, and if you don't heal somehow, you're going to die.
-regearing: You mean using gear that increases Con? What gear are you talking about here?
I just want to know, if you guys just want to go to QWZ alone with your DPS, how the hell do you manage to survive without a defensive passive?
EDIT: I was just testing Bountiful Chi in QWZ and it wasn't enough. Maybe If I could get a way to mitigate the damage that i take... Currently my toon have 43% Dodge Chance, 51.8% Avoidance and 110.5 Defense (26% damage resistance).
Since you seem to be focusing on me in your replies, I'll just say that I'm not very familiar w/ the QWZ, outside of knowing that it can be a tough place to solo for many players (based off limited vid evidence and what I've heard from others), nor did I know beforehand that'd be a point of contention. There are other players that do a lot of QWZ, though, so perhaps they can help you more than I can. One other player who does them often is Spinnytop_foxiandfriends, who has made topics about it in the past. For example:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/comment/12834666
So, I'm sorry if I'm not of much help there, but maybe others can give you more specific advice (could always reach out to them in-game or via private forum message too, if they don't respond here).
(And to clarify- I meant Active Defenses by 'ADs'. For re-gearing, yea that mostly means having more Con/maxHP and defense, to boost your effective HP (though in a few cases could mean getting bonus healing, depending on the build).)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I don't play dps however I'm pretty sure it's possible to solo QWZ with a dps champion. Read this thread.
Perseus 3 - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.43:35
Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 18: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Powers
Level 1: Electric Bolt
Level 1: Electric Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Ionic Reverberation
Level 8: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Imbue (Rank 2)
Level 14: Concentration
Level 17: Chain Lightning (Rank 2, Superconductor)
Level 20: Resurgence
Level 23: Lightning Arc (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Guard (Rank 2)
Level 32: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ball Lightning (Rank 2, Triplicity, Supercharged)
Level 38: Indestructible (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 36/36
Travel Powers
Level 6: Electro Flight (Rank 2)
Level 35: Electric Speed
Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Exploit Opening (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)
Devices
Slot 1: Target Locked
Slot 2: Primus Spark Shield
Slot 3: Draysha Supercharge
Professor Futureman 5 - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.43:35
Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)
Talents
Level 1: The Psychokinetic (Dex: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 9: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
Level 18: Academics (Int: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 21: Shooter (Dex: 5, Ego: 5)
Powers
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
Level 6: Burst Shot (Off Your Feet)
Level 8: Concentration
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Force Blast (Rank 2)
Level 17: Pulverizer
Level 20: Masterful Dodge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Power Conversion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 32: Imbue
Level 35: Sonic Device (Deafening Dissolution)
Level 38: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
Adv. Points: 36/36
Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Displacement Superspeed
Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)
Devices
So, do you think Conv is enough as self heal? Since you don't have Presence as SS, it must heal about 800HP. IS that enough for you to solo hard stuff like QWZ? Maybe you have more defense to mitigate damage.. What is your strategy?
I am currently looking for the best self-healing to relly, my list consist of BCR with NW, Recharge adv and Conviction...
Professor Futureman usually fires off a fully charged FC + Sonic Device on whichever target needs to be taken out first and fastest. I try, from stealth, to be sure to line him up with as many other targets as possible. The trick for him is to keep knocking away as many enemies as possible and as far as possible while picking them off one-by-one as they trickle back. He usually pops MD after the first hit. For the amount of time it is up he's usually able to whittle the enemy down enough that Conviction can keep him going. The only really tough part is the Nightmare Demolisher paired with the Brutes. I have to do more cat and mouse there. Take out the Brutes quick, then cat and mouse the Demolisher
Many different kinds of characters can solo the QWZ. Most any decent tank can. I've done it with a telepathy dps and a couple hybrid healers. Much depends on your knowledge of the enemy's attack patterns.
Thank you for your answers. I see that strategy plays a really, really important role, specially in places like QWZ. I got myself a Psionic Accelerator device, which is helping a lot.
Regardless of strategy and devices, I am looking for a self-healing power that is not Regen (nor any sloted) to try to stay in DPS role constantly, even while soloing.
Until now, I have experimented some in Powerhouse and I got to the conclusion that BCR, Endorphin rush and all those powers that heals less than 200HP/s are no good for me. Also, Resurgence, as any consumable with big cooldown, are like get out of trouble buttons. They might save you, but I can't relly on them in every fight.So, I am trying 4 other powers:
-Conviction: Instante heal, but only for about 900HP and has a 5s cooldown. The cooldown is kinda big. The good side is that it's instant which means less time spent heaing and more DPS.
-Empathic Healing: Good heal and fast, starts around 360hp/0.5s and ends with almost double. On criticals, it heals a lot more. Downside is that I can't attack or block while healing.
-Life Drain: Good and fast healing too. Heals about 250hp/0.5s and deals dmg. Can crit to heal almost double that ammount. Downside is that it heals less than EmpHeal and cost more energy. Also, have to be close to an enemey (50ft), which means that I can only heal while being hit.
-Rebuke: Good healing, but it requires to spend all the 2.35s to fully charge, healing a bit more than 1k. Freezes me in place while healing, which isn't good.
I still got 2 powers slots in my build. I'm planning in getting 2 heals or 1 heal and 1 Active defense(or offense).
I'm tending to get EmpHeal because its the fastest heal. Maybe Lifedrain.
What are your opinions? Are conviction the only option for DPS? How about gearing healing bonus?
For a pure dps build a CC power is really helpful in bridging between uses of Conviction. Dragon Kick and Thunder Clap are current favorites that go off pretty quick. Just need to think to use them before your hp get too low. I find that if I am trying to use something like Life Drain while 5 worms are on me they burn me down faster than I heal. If you can take out 1-2 with a first shot or two, whittle down some of the rest, hit Resurgence, then conviction and stuns as you take out the remainder, you can generally take down everything. Life Drain w/ Conviction can be good if you are down to 1-2 enemies.
Healing Bonus, you mean from like a Sentinel Brooch or stating Presence? That will take away from the damage you do. That being said, as I mentioned above. I do have some hybrid healers who handle the QWZ just fine. They just have to take more time because they are in Support role and do less damage so that they can heal better.
Another useful thing is to have 2 sets of gear. One for more offense, one for defense. Have the latter on your tankier build.
Lately I have been soloing the QWZ with a Telepathy Sentinel tank. Slow, but virtually unkillable due to defenses and constant trickle of different heals. Takes on either 10 worms or 10 destroids with no problem. Hardly ever needs to hit either Resurgence or Conviction, hardly even needs to block, even when Mind Worms are out (Perseus does need to block those and move away from them).
One thing I agree with stuff you've posted here on your thread : you need to test which heal/self-heal works with your playstyle.
However, I believe that @pantagruel01 defines in a simple and important sentence what needs to be your priority as a dps : "Dead foes can't hurt you.". And that's it. Heals or self-heals must be here just to keep you alive, not to replace your damage output.
So I believe your priority is somewhat wrong. Nor Conviction, nor Endorphin Rush, nor Lifedrain will help you to kill your foes fast enough that you don't have to spam healings to stay alive.
It's certainly easier to kill mobs when there are cc (stun, knocks, roots, etc...).
I believe that as long as you worry more on how to stay alive, there's something off about your playstyle. Maybe you'll feel more comfortable in a tank role?
I understand. PA is really helping and if I do everything right, take out the strongest worm first, and use lot of CC, then I can survive and solo most of QWZ. The thing is, I barely survive, have to keep running and healing. And if i do something wrong or the first strike (shadow strike with stealth) somehow doesn't kill the strogest worm, I'm screwed. I know it is supposed to be a hard place, but I just know that I can do better.
I see your point. I don't want to fully gear as a healer. My question is if I get one, maybe two Sentinels core mods, even that dps goes a bit lower, is it worth for the healing? For your answers I take that you nver done that in your DPS toons...
That's not viable to me. I still don't have all Recognition and OV gear for this DPS (just have 1 rec defense, and will get 2nd one and 1st OV secondary soon). Also, I wouldn't like to keep changing builds...
Let me ask: How much conviction heals in your DPS builds? How much defense and HP you have? In this one, currently, I have 6,7k HP, 162,9 (38%) defense and Conviction heals about 1k HP.
Like I said, I have to do everything right, and yet I barely survive soloing hard areas. I've seen DPS ppl gather all PowerHouse battlefield Demons (hard mode) and just survive. Their HP always going up. Also seen DPS ppl PVPing and their health don't go one way down. It keeps getting up (without stoping to heal) until one of them deals enough dmg and wins.
I asked about that and one told me BCR, but I don't believe that everyone has it...
Yes, I am currently testing a lot. Done testing Life Drain, and whie it's a good power, it requires an enemy to heal. This means that I can't run away healing, so I often die, since it won't heal enough with mobs hitting me. So, Life Drain is out.
Until now, EmpHeal is the best choice. I will try now to get it and Conviction, both rank 3.
As I said to pantagruel01, I've seen DPS ppl on PH and PVP getting healed all the time, and I can't believe they all are BCR martial arts dodge focused toons.
About the tanking, I've played tanks in others MMOs, but I'd like to stay DPS in this one. I still have the option of getting Regen (or any defensive slotted) and stay as a "DPS". Though that would decrease a LOT my dmg and I also hate to keep changing builds.