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Vortex - Force Cascade Build

pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=30&n=Vortex&d=15780Y785XUa033013300837078V00820KEF071G059G08K503CM00FO00K6008E007F003E0B0tFV42kl43Oy10000000000&e=

Vortex Any / Multiple
v3.27:30

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Impulse (Int: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
Level 6: Tireless (Rec: 8)
Level 9: Energetic (End: 8)
Level 12: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
Level 15: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 18: Investigator (Int: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Force Bolts (Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 1: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
Level 6: Implosion Engine
Level 8: Burst Shot (Taking Names, Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 11: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
Level 14: Neuroelectric Pulse (Rank 2, Recharge)
Level 17: Chest Beam (Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Ego Surge
Level 29: Imbue
Level 32: Killer Instinct
Level 35: Concentration
Level 38: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism)
Adv. Points: 32/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Ego: Mental Endurance (2/3)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (2/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (3/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices
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Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    edited January 22
    Accel Metab advs have a shared internal cd. If you're taking one for the minor energy, I'd just put it on one of the main attacks (Burst Shot or FC, I guess). The build prob won't be able to spam FC as is if you're not getting hit for Sheath, though perhaps if you're using a Burst Shot -> FC rotation then you can at least use Burst Shot enough times to keep KI rolling (its a bit rng since it takes crits). I'd prob also use LNL as an AO, since its energy form won't be consumed by FC and it offers cost discount.

    You're free to test it out on the PH/PTS to see how energy is, but it can be quite difficult w/ FC (and even Chest Beam is a bit expensive).
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    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
    This is about the same FC build setup I use, but just minus all the AM advantages.

    I utilize Unified Theory for my EU. Compared to Killer Instinct it generates more energy, is more reliable (occurs literally on every chest beam tap rather than on some burst-shot hits when it crits), and scales with a better stat. That said, could easily sub out the Rec for a different statting choice, but there is also the consideration of how NeuroElectric Pulse scales only with Rec.

    Chest beam -> Burst shot -> Full-charge cascade is the rotation I use. CB activates my EU for energy over time, Burst Shot activates the Pre-Emptive Strike buff from Avenger (as it would here!) and in my case, uses Off Your Feet to potentially generate some extra knock-resist for more damage. The FC takes advantage of that next-hit buff from Avenger for some devastating damage on top of that double-crush-debuff. So with all that said, all three of those attacks are part of your primary attack rotation - therefore all of them really should have some strong ranking devoted to them. Chest Beam's a solid attack anyways and should be R3d, while you can certainly make the argument that Burst Shot could use either a full R3 treatment or otherwise using both its advantages.

    I don't know how much mileage you'll get out of having 3 separate AOs, I'd probably stick with just Imbue and Killer Instinct and rank them up (keeping in mind that ranking up AOs does increase their duration by 3 seconds each time you do it.) KI and Imbue are also not counted as Energy Forms, so they don't get eaten up immediately as soon as you fire off a FC (unlike Ego Surge).

    Would highly Recommend getting the advantage on Force Bolts with that said, as it's a cheap and quick way to get a lucky Energy Form out of nowhere.
    awol until further notice
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    Cool, thanks for the tips! I didn't notice Unified Theory as a good EU, but yeah, that works better.
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    edited January 23
    Updated
    The Orbital Cannon and Implosion Engine are there for theme, mostly. Haven't decided whether to keep them or get something decent.

    Vortex Any / Multiple
    v3.27:30

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
    Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Impulse (Int: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
    Level 6: Tireless (Rec: 8)
    Level 9: Energetic (End: 8)
    Level 12: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
    Level 15: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
    Level 18: Investigator (Int: 5, End: 5)
    Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Implosion Engine (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Burst Shot (Taking Names)
    Level 8: Concentration
    Level 11: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
    Level 14: Neuroelectric Pulse (Rank 2, Recharge)
    Level 17: Masterful Dodge
    Level 20: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Ego Surge
    Level 29: Imbue
    Level 32: Unified Theory
    Level 35: Chest Beam
    Level 38: Orbital Cannon (Rank 2, Anvil of Dawn)
    Adv. Points: 33/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)

    Specializations
    Ego: Mental Endurance (2/3)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (2/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
    Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
    Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
    Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    Devices
    Post edited by pwestolemyname on
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    edited January 23
    Engine + Orbital can be a fun combo for corralling and nuking trash, and setting up follow-ups w/ the cylinder AoE. But yea, I wouldn't consider it core to the build either. Also to clarify in Bluham's response, I think he meant Lock N Load instead of 'KI' when talking about the active offenses.

    Anyways, out of curiosity, what rotation do you plan on doing here? Cause if Burst Shot and Chest Beam are being used often enough then you may want to consider further ranking them.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,059 Arc User
    I was playing around with this today. Pretty decent energy management and damage. This is for a gun-toting mage, so Lead Tempest was appropriate for the theme and can build stacks of Concentration before attacking. Also good for clearing out mooks.

    612 Int (672 when Quarry kicks in, also then 80 Ego)
    122 Rec
    124 End
    7381 HP

    Captain Arcane Any / Multiple
    v3.27:30

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
    Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Cybernetic Warrior (Con: 10, Int: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
    Level 6: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 9: Investigator (Int: 5, End: 5)
    Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
    Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
    Level 21: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Force Bolts
    Level 1: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
    Level 6: Burst Shot (Taking Names)
    Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Concentration
    Level 17: Dark Transfusion (Rank 2, Blood Sacrifice)
    Level 20: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Imbue
    Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2)
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35: Unified Theory
    Level 38: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Arcane Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Lightning Speed (Rank 2)

    Specializations
    Intelligence: Preparation (2/2)
    Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
    Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
    Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

    Devices
    aMxOJ0g.png

    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    edited January 24
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Anyways, out of curiosity, what rotation do you plan on doing here? Cause if Burst Shot and Chest Beam are being used often enough then you may want to consider further ranking them.
    For hard targets (Cosmics, bosses) it basically goes Tap Chest Beam, Tap Burst Shot, Full Force Cascade, repeat. Full FC after boom blocking for Retaliation buff. Re-up the AOs as they recycle. Drop Neuroelectric Pulse if energy is a problem (usually not necessary). I may drop one of those CB taps and only refresh it every other FC. The debuff lasts a while and the only reason to tap it often is to proc Unified Theory. But, I think I can get away with only tapping it every other FC.

    For garbage like Alerts or clearing mobs on MD, I usually just run around tapping FC. For QWZ, like you said, open with Engine + Orbital, then nuke with FC, as needed.

    I didn't rank Chest Beam and Burst Shot since I am only tapping them. I figured the difference in tap damage would not be significant. Do you think it would make a big difference? If so, I can see where I can pull some points from.

    Right now, she only has Heroic/Vig gear, and even at that I am pleased with her performance. Switching from MSA as the energy reverb was the best idea.

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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
    Chest Beam's a solid attack regardless. Consider that you're going to be using CB every 6 seconds with Unified Theory (and how long a FC charge takes), as that'll always have your EU up to keep fuelling your attacks. The fact you're also rolling with NW also means you could easily be getting more DPS out of full-charge chest beams during this rotation rather than going with a tap. Up to you, really, since inversely the attack does apply that burn-through instantly.

    Burst Shot's going to be preceding almost every single FC to maximize that Pre-Emptive strike bonus, so that's a high candidate for a rank of some sort as well. Because both of its advantages can trigger on tap, that's a fine contender for a build choice rather than an r3, also owed to it being a blast and therefore not being great at damage to begin with.

    @jaazaniah1 is a fine build as well. One thing that does stand out is that it has Focused Strikes as a spec, which isn't going to help out much since the build doesn't have any single-target attacks.
    awol until further notice
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,059 Arc User
    Yep. I noticed that I put Focused Strikes in after I posted it. Force of habit.
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    So, it turns out that Engine + Orbital works really well for soloing Portals! I keep being surprised at how well this build works, I had really low expectations.

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  • The nw and quarry build what are your force cascades hitting for? Let's say at ph dummies since cosmics have roo many variables . And yes I would go Intel over ego since it also helps with energy management . And instead of using msa eu your using the ls eu..what is procing the ls eu?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    edited February 2
    ... And instead of using msa eu your using the ls eu..what is procing the ls eu?
    Chest Beam can proc Unified Theory atm. Its a pretty decent way to combo a particle + crushing dmg debuff w/ an EU proc for Ranged builds packing some End, though Chest Beam can cost a good bit of energy in of itself.

    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • Ya chest beam can be costly . And having end and rec and Intel or ego primary I presume adding a severity mod and gambler to up the severity and crit chance . Becuss it would be around rough guess 30 chance or lower and around 80 severity
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    So, I mainly went Ego primary for the knockback fun, but it turns out to be pretty efficient all around. The Insight spec 3/3 at full Ego (645 currently) gives me a 47% discount, which is more than I would get from full Int.

    While giving up Dex did kinda suck, with using the Sixth Sense and Follow Through specs, I still manage to have 26% Crit and 101.6% Sev. And right now she is mostly in Heroic and Vig gear, so that will go up a bit as I upgrade her to Justice and OV gear. Plus, the Mass Destruction spec gets my AOE crit up another 6%. So, it's in the low 30s, which is okay.

    NW is good, of course, because it reduces charge time. In long fights this does make a difference. Sneak is just a nice side benefit so I can get set up without getting bothered.

    She was originally Int for the Def Pen, but I was advised to go back to Ego, and I figured, what is even the point of FC, if you are not punting people a billion miles. Thing is, it turns out that at that level, KB is actually quite a nice battlefield management ability. Punting people 50 feet is just annoying because they can still shoot you or run right back. Punting them 400 feet actually takes them out of range of damaging you for a few seconds, so it mitigates damage. And, falling damage can be significant in that case.

    Chest Beam costs 31E per tap, Unified Theory gives 27E every 3 sec for 6 sec, so it's a pretty good trade off. Also note that Orbital Cannon applies Plasma Burn, which procs UT. I don't generally use it during Cosmics, but at other times (soloing QWZ and Nightmare Portals, for example) it comes in REALLY handy as an alpha strike, so the energy is just a bonus.

    In general, at Cosmics, we have AoPM or AoAC, which take care of any leftover energy needs. If I still need a little more, I can always drop Neuroelectric Pulse, which helps my nearby teammates, too. It is also her only self-heal (She drinks a lot of heal potions soloing).

    Lastly, with the Initiative spec, it is worthwhile to drop in a ping of the EB every now and then. So, all in all, energy is rarely an issue.

    As far as damage
    The nw and quarry build what are your force cascades hitting for?
    just straight FC with no debuffs and 8 stacks of Form, crits between 12,500 and 17,500. The damage on this power is apparently quite variable, so it is a huge range. With Debuffs, crits from 18,500 to 23,500. With an AO on, it's maybe a couple thousand more. On regular enemies, I've seen crits over 33K. I have not tested ongoing DPS, yet.

    Anyway, she works WAY better than I expected any Force build to work. And, she still has a bit of improvement available, as I kit her out with Justice and OV gear. AND, she is a LOT of fun to play!
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  • yannbiosyannbios Posts: 12 Arc User
    What was reasonjng to go back to ego? I run intel myself with zero regrets. Im curious on what the reasons u were told to go back to ego.
  • yannbiosyannbios Posts: 12 Arc User
    Wouldnt r3 chest beam..irs mainly used as a tap debuff
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    edited March 21
    Ego or Int could work for the setup. It somewhat depends on which PSS tree you prefer, and may also simply be that someone has enough invested in one set of stat gear that they don't want to switch over to another. As for ranking Chest Beam here: it mostly just comes down to opportunity cost- ie. what else you could have spent those adv points on, and whether that matters more or not. Even in the scenario of tapping it every ~6 sec for the EU, I wouldn't put ranking Chest Beam as a very high priority, but it can still be considered for dps.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • citizenzero#3567 citizenzero Posts: 162 Arc User
    I agree with flow. In most plmost dps builds yoir lucky 2 have 2 points to spare in chest beam. But 2 points is most ibwould go take 2 points and add r2 to imbue..of course preference
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    As far as Int vs Ego, she used to be Int. It's been a while, but I think I tested Int vs Ego, and Ego comes out more DPS. With 2 debuffs and NW, you've already got a lot of penetration. And the Insight spec gives more energy discount than Int does. Also, Ego just for the fun of knocking things across town.
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  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 425 Arc User
    Nice!

    I would like to try with a primary DEX build. Do you guys think it might work decently? (not looking for best, just serviceable)

    Gravity Any / Multiple
    v3.29:31

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
    Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Squall (Dex: 8, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 10)
    Level 6: Survival Training (Dex: 3, Con: 3, Pre: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
    Level 9: Field Ops Training (Con: 3, Int: 3, Ego: 3, Rec: 2, End: 2)
    Level 12: Jack of All Trades (Str: 2, Dex: 2, Con: 2, Int: 2, Ego: 2, Pre: 2, Rec: 2, End: 2)
    Level 15: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
    Level 18: Shooter (Dex: 5, Ego: 5)
    Level 21: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Burst Shot (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack, Open Wound)
    Level 8: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Chilled Form
    Level 14: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
    Level 20: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Lock N Load
    Level 26: Imbue
    Level 29: Unified Theory
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35: Gravity Driver (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6: Swinging (Rank 2, Flippin')
    Level 35: Teleportation

    Specializations
    Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
    Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
    Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

    Devices
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    edited March 26
    The Dex setup w/ Chilled Form can work as a base, though it'll lack Ego PSS's Insight or Int's innate cost discount- so you'd prob want to get extra cost discount gear to help make up for that. Another problem is that Expose Weakness isn't gonna be as easy to keep stacked optimally w/ a very long charged attack like FC.
    ________________
    <CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (older power data) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 965 Arc User
    Yeah, I'm not seeing any benefit from Dex PSS in this build. If you really want to do that, take Power Swell instead of Gear Utilization. Also, for Combat Training, you would want to go with Wardicator to boost your offense as high as possible to get the extra Crit rating. Well, then that means you do want Gear Utilization, so...
    Basically, a Dex PSS build is going to be thirsty all the time.
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  • citizenzero#3567 citizenzero Posts: 162 Arc User
    Intel or ego are best ways to go. Cosmic wise i prefer intel.
  • citizenzero#3567 citizenzero Posts: 162 Arc User
    I might even go intel amd dex. And run intel.dex dual mods for primary and intel. Rec duals or rec.end duals in secondary
  • bladestabladesta Posts: 38 Arc User
    Mini necro - was using a variation of the Ego NW build and someone commented that maybe it should include Incendiary Grenade with No Quarter? Anyone tried? I wondered if you might already be at the - resist cap due to NW, Chest Beam and Burst Shot.
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