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Feedback Thread: Destroyer's Factory

kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,092 Cryptic Developer
Use this thread to discuss any changes made to Destroyer's Factory in this current PTS cycle.

FC.31.20190108.1

Destroyer's Factory
  • We have done a bunch of under the hood changes to this lair. While the majority of the lair should function the same, please check and see if anything is off (missing enemies, moved geometry, environmental stuff not triggering, etc).
  • Fixed a bug where the open mission didn't always display properly in the last room.
  • All enemies are now level scaling.
  • Slightly increased the health of Fake Destroyer and the Mega Destroid.
  • Dr. Destroyer now more strongly favors being at range.
  • Dr. Destroyer's movement speed increases as his health drops.
  • Dr. Destroyer's Sparkstorm attack now removes all debuffs on him and repels targets.
  • Added reward drops. Currently generic.
  • Made some changes to the last room fight. Instead of all of the Mega Destroid parts counting down at the same time, they now count down at different times.
  • Made some changes to what each individual part does (this is also the order of when they're installed):
  • Howlcannon: No change.
  • Shoulder Cannon: No change.
  • Chest Plate: No change. This part adds 30% resistance.
  • Boneboiler: This part was unable to be installed, this has been fixed. This effect places burning patches on the ground.
  • Thunderglove: This power now drags all players into the Mega Destroid and disables all travel powers for a while when used.




Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

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<font color="#ff0000">Bug
Where it happens
What happens</font>

Please format any suggestions you have in the following format:
Suggestion
Your suggestion

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Comments

  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,031 Arc User
    So what will the rewards be?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited January 10
    Just did a solo run of the factory. Issues I found:

    - Foxbat doesn't follow players sometimes.
    - The big presses that squish you can be flown through while they are down. They don't have any collision on their sides.
    - Dr. D resets his health randomly during the fight to 1/3 or 2/3 for no apparent reason.
    - Dr. D says stuff when he hits 2/3 health, but he says it twice and the dialogue lines overlap each other.
    - Everything before Dr. D is totally wimp-sauce. Total steamroll fest compared to Dr. D.


    Didn't see any geometry out of place or anything, lair looks intact in regards to that.

    PS - plz make boss drop SCR for lvl 40 peeps o3o you was probably gonna do that already​​
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    Is the long running bug with Foxbat stop following you before the final room gonna be addressed?​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,092 Cryptic Developer
    You guys will have to post up examples on how this happens. I haven't been able to repro it.​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited January 10
    kaizerin wrote: »
    You guys will have to post up examples on how this happens. I haven't been able to repro it.

    First run he just stayed in the first room and never followed me through. I'll do it a few times to see if it happens again.​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited January 10
    Oh also, the names of the assembly arms on the mega destroid are not the same as the objectives on the objective thingy, so its hard to know which one to focus first. Since some of them have shorter timers and some attacks are more dangerous than others, this would be important.​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    Foxbat derping in the room right before the boss room. He has his face buried in the door that leads back to the previous room.
    dQ0r2yb.jpg​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    Suggestion: There are robot arms in the 2nd/3rd room that are part of an objective that can be reprogrammed, but they have so little hit points that they're just gonna get popped too fast for reporgramming to matter.
    Give them more health so that repogramming is a faster alternative to dpsing them.
    ​​
  • avianosavianos Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    YEP that's the part Foxbat has been stucking every time i did the mission solo

    Tho in our testing on first run he got stuck on the Final Boss Room, being scared to the door but never moved after the battle​​
    An Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable but farms way to much to archieve that
    Playing as EVERYTHING but Superheroes (BUT they are my Heroes) Eternal Silver since 1 February 2011
    Currently playing with 72+ Characters (7 ATs, 65 FFs) Loving all of them, ALTitis for Life
  • behemothking#9246 behemothking Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 12
    Entering as Level 40, enemies in the lair are not scaling to player level, but they are skull level typed. They all seem to be Level 28.

    Ambient sound effects in the lair are too loud compared to background music and Foxbat's NPC voice. Foxbat should really speak up and ambient sound should be quieter.

    "Foul Up the Forge" two initial objectives "Disable Temperature Sensors" and "Stop Crucibles" should both be available from the start instead of requiring "Disable Temperature Sensors" before "Stop Crucibles". The current progression forces slight backtracking and makes things a bit clunky since the area path is laid out as North Sensor to Fork to Crucible Controls and dead end or South Sensor and rest of map. The change would make map area and objective flow more natural.

    Crucibles and lava deal very low damage and are hardly any added threat to the player. I'd suggest upping damage to 1k damage per tick while standing in lava or if hit by crucible lava to make those environmental hazards worth paying attention to. I'd also suggest increasing the size of the crucible lava attack area because right now its so small that players would likely never be hit by it and increase visual size because it is hardly noticeable right now and a player might get confused as to why they are taking 1k damage.

    In the lower section of the first room, there is a group of enemies that endlessly respawns coming from the door that leads to the second room.

    In the second room, the henchman that should be at the conveyor belt controls is not at the right position nor is it facing the correct direction. Screenshot below.

    qidAVOt.png

    In the second room, the objective is "Destroy or Reprogram Fabricator Arms" but there doesn't seem to be a way to reprogram any of them.

    There should probably be something somewhere that lets you know that you can reprogram fabricator arms if you have the appropriate level of Arms crafting skill.

    In the second room, the stampers that you deactivate on the conveyor belt reactivate when you climb through to the third room.

    In the third room, the ambient sound effects are way too loud again and should be lowered.

    In the third room, the third and fourth assembly initiations do not spawn any groups of enemies.

    In the third room, the objective "Initiat Robot Arm Assembly" has a typo in the word "Initiate". Screenshot below.

    IRDMKVh.png

    In the third room, the system message "Load the Hopper!" doesn't match the open mission objective "Heap the Hopper". Screenshot below.

    Q3pfbyV.png

    In the fourth room, the henchmen on the platform in the middle of the room are all using nonexistent keyboards when they should be standing idle instead. Screenshot below.

    njVCtuF.png

    In the fourth room, the open mission objectives do not capitalize the words "north" and south". Screenshot below.

    3Vw17WO.png

    In the final room, Foxbat ends up doing nothing and standing idle at the door. The Foxbat mission ends up being uncompletable.

    In the final room, the environmental hazard damage from the crucibles is so low that it is pointless and unrewarding for the player to bother with that mechanic of the fight. Suggestion is to make it worth some value to the encounter by increasing damage.

    In the final room, there is a group of destroids on the scaffolding that potentially end up doing nothing through the whole fight if you don't bother them. It doesn't really make sense for them to be doing nothing during the boss fight while their leader is getting beat up so I'd suggest that if Fake Dr. Destroyer is ever aggroed or attacked, all enemies in the room should become aggressive.

    In the final room, the first part of the robot to be installed, the Howlcannon Amplifier, installs in 35 seconds which doesn't leave the player with very much time to react and prevent it from being installed. I'd suggest that the timer be at least 60 seconds to completion.

    4JFsF4x.png

    Fake Dr. Destroyer does not say anything to the player nor does any voice play if the player manages to prevent "Howlcannon Amplifier" or "Ultra-Resonance Thunderglove" installation.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer's Sparkstorm repel does not apply repel resistance stacks to the player.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer annoyingly repeats all installation prevention messages and voice one after another after each of his 1/3rd HP phase changes.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer repeats his HP phase change messages and voice twice for each change.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer's HP regenerates back to 2/3rds HP after he phase changes at 1/3rd HP for the first time.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer spawns two detached arms every time his HP is reduced to 1/3rd HP. This can result in four or more detached arms flying around the place. There should probably only be one pair of arms to ever spawn for the whole fight.

    "Mega-Destroyer" should probably be "Mega Destroyer" for uniformity.

    Mega Destroyer should be given a wireframe tell for his thunderclap.

    Impervious and Durable mods would be good rewards to add to the lair.

    There should probably be a respawn point near the last room so that the player does not have to run back from the start of the lair if they respawn.

    Foxbat should probably be given readable speech bubble text to match his voice.

    One line of Fake Dr. Destroyer's speech bubble text is "Pity you will not be alive to witness the cataclysm." when the voice actually says "Pity you'll not be alive to witness the cataclysm."
    Post edited by behemothking#9246 on
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    To reprogram the arms you just walk up to them and activate them. Might require a certain level of crafting skill.​​
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    Different Perks should be given depending on which conditions you defeated the Mega Destroid (1 part installed, 2 installed, 3 installed, etc)

    Reward loot table should be different depending on how many parts Mega Destroid installed (the more parts the better rewards). To compensate for that, in addition to the extra attacks, the Mega Destroid could gain additional Hp, Damage and Resistance per part installed. This would allow for people to disable the parts asap for a relatively effortless victory, or let Fake Dr install all parts for a self imposed hard mode challenge
    ​​
    @lezard21
    Kaiser Behemoth, Ethereal Queen, Fenrir, Galen, Fujin, Madeen
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    Is this mission being tested by characters and teams at its expected level? IIRC it's the culmination of a mission arc around level 28, not an epic lair, and it was always quite a stiff task as originally built. Feedback aiming to make it more spicy for 40s is probably going to make it too difficult for its original slot in the levelling progression.

    If you are revising it I'd probably prefer it to be made for a 3 player team of level 28s, not worry about the scaling too much, and go all guns blazing on a 5 player Rampage/ Custom Alert version for level 35s and up.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,095 Arc User
    Is this mission being tested by characters and teams at its expected level?
    No, but it gets steamrollered by two level 40s despite scary monster, so a team of level 28s shouldn't be too badly off.
    IIRC it's the culmination of a mission arc around level 28, not an epic lair, and it was always quite a stiff task as originally built.
    It was a stiff task back in 2009. The main problem in 2019 is that it's nearly impossible to form a 5-man team before level 40.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    If you are revising it I'd probably prefer it to be made for a 3 player team of level 28s, not worry about the scaling too much, and go all guns blazing on a 5 player Rampage/ Custom Alert version for level 35s and up.

    I'm gonna venture a guess that that latter part is out of scope. Waaaaaay out of scope :)

    What you should keep in mind is that this change, especially if they make it drop SCR for lvl 40s, is going to mean is that this is no longer a lair that will exclusively, or even commonly be run by just level 28s. What's gonna happen is someone will say "Hey anybody want to help my lvl 28 butt run Destroyer's Factory?" and then 4 lvl 40s are gonna say "Sure, I'll help you get me some quick easy Questionite ( and SCR )!" and then boom bam boom, done and done.

    That's why making it scary tech is such a great idea, because it solves the real problem that Panta points out:
    The main problem in 2019 is that it's nearly impossible to form a 5-man team before level 40.

    I know I'm sure gonna answer the call on the rare occasion that somebody mentions the lair in zone chat ^_^​​
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    No, but it gets steamrollered by two level 40s despite scary monster, so a team of level 28s shouldn't be too badly off.

    Well, OK, but it would be good to try it in case any one is daft enough to try the mission as is.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I'm gonna venture a guess that that latter part is out of scope. Waaaaaay out of scope :)

    I know. But I miss Rampages being a thing. And the Robot Factory is one of my favourite lairs in the game, what with having a proper plot and some objectives, different routes, side quests and stuff.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I know I'm sure gonna answer the call on the rare occasion that somebody mentions the lair in zone chat ^_^​​

    Ditto. MC Location should help, too. Ideally we should have a Scary Monster tech lair in each MC area - Kevin Poe, Medusa and that cool one with the psychic girl in the Argent HQ would be fun. I know, getting ahead of myself again.....

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,095 Arc User
    Well, OK, but it would be good to try it in case any one is daft enough to try the mission as is.
    Could probably pull together a team of level 25-30 ATs in heirlooms or something with the debugger.
  • behemothking#9246 behemothking Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 11
    Well, OK, but it would be good to try it in case any one is daft enough to try the mission as is.
    Could probably pull together a team of level 25-30 ATs in heirlooms or something with the debugger.

    Heirloom is too luxury. You should test it from a new player perspective with green gears if you do end up doing it.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,095 Arc User
    Heirloom is too luxury. You should test it from a new player perspective with green gears if you do end up doing it.
    It's kinda hard to test from the perspective of actually new players, because people testing on pts know mechanics. It would probably be possible to beat the entire thing with five DPS ATs at level 25-30, but I doubt five DPS ATs on their first characters would win.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited January 11
    Heirloom is too luxury. You should test it from a new player perspective with green gears if you do end up doing it.

    A character is actually potentially better equipped in green gear than they are Heirloom gear tho. So I guess we need to do a big survey among new players to find out what they're actually using around that level.​​
  • maleb666maleb666 Posts: 359 Arc User
    So, we got no sense of humor... got it... I'm out...
    mal_sig_zpslcumq0li.jpg
  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 921 Arc User
    edited January 12
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Heirloom is too luxury. You should test it from a new player perspective with green gears if you do end up doing it.

    A character is actually potentially better equipped in green gear than they are Heirloom gear tho. So I guess we need to do a big survey among new players to find out what they're actually using around that level.​​

    Green drops and quest rewards from westside and additional drops form doing alerts is my guess for most of them, or just drops and quest items if they're sticking with missions, and honestly anyone stumbling on the destroyer factory while leveling has probably been mostly doing missions.

  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,208 Arc User
    Dr. Destroyer's dialog events refire every single time you reduce him to 2/3 and 1/3 HP.
    Judging by the feedback in this thread, only sometimes does this happen. Causes him to restore his HP back up to a previous state at times (i.e. after knocking his arms off, he re-fires his 2/3 HP scripting, regrows his arms, and says his 2/3 HP line.) He also says the lines for every part of the MegaDestroyer you've managed to knock off, so a ton of overlapping dialog can happen.

    If defeated during the final fight against Destroyer and you've aggroed the other destroids in the room, they will all be despawned when you return.

    Lair needs some extra respawn points, running through everything to get back to the final fight's a pain.

    Also Doc Destroyer just kiting constantly is annoying. Please tone it down.
    awol until further notice
  • Went ahead and attempted running Destroyer's Factory with a team of two level 30 players equipped with appropriate uncommon gear for their roles. Initially choose Marksman AT and Radiant AT for team composition and struggled throughout the entire lair. We ended up being unable to finish past the fourth room. We chose Glacier AT and Radiant AT for the second attempt. We completed it and encountered no significant difficulty while running the lair. With a standard team of one tank, one healer, and one or more DPSes, the lair difficulty is fair. Not frustratingly difficult nor mindlessly easy.

    Suggestion: Upon entering the lair, give players a mission briefing and a warning that the lair is not intended to be run solo and recommend that they form a team with a designated tank, healer, and dps.

    Suggestion: Please make Leader Destroids stop self-destructing or make them deal AoE damage upon self-destruction.

    In the first room, right after entering the lair, the groups of enemies guarding each of the interactables have an aggro range that is too large. This makes it so that teams are likely to get swarmed by all the groups even if they attempt to engage on just one group. Suggestion: Decrease the aggro range of enemies in the upper area of the first room.
    In the lower section of the first room, there is a group of enemies that endlessly respawns coming from the door that leads to the second room.

    This group in the lower area of the first room should stop infinitely respawning after the player finishes initiating "Emergency Shutdown".

    "Laser Arm" in the lair should probably be renamed to "Fabricator Arm" to match the open mission indicator name.

    In the second room, the destroid enemies guarding the stamper conveyor belt controls can aggro you through the fence. Suggestion: Decrease the aggro range of this group of enemies.

    In the third room, Foxbat's movement AI gets him stuck behind one of the fabricator arms. To reproduce, initiate part assembly and allow Foxbat to engage the group of enemies that spawns. Defeat all enemies in the room. After all enemies are defeated, he will attempt to run back to a spot near the destroid leg part container, but will be unable to do so. Upon completing the third room, he will continue on to the fourth room, but after entering the fourth, he will be stuck attempting to run back to the same spot in the third room again. (There are actually a number of places Foxbat will attempt to go back to throughout the lair so his movement AI should probably be entirely reworked.)

    Each time you move back to the third room from the fourth room, the door will explode again and explosion SFX will play. Reproducing this probably depends on the player's graphics settings. Explosions also reoccur at the door where Fake Dr. Destroyer enters the final room from and at each barrel explosion location in the final room. These replay each time you move to the final room from the previous room.

    In the fourth room, the aggro leash and ranges of the Annihilator Bots that spawn from the assembly line are super weird. They can lose aggro on you as you move around the room.

    In the fourth room, the Villain level Annihilator Bots that spawn from the assembly line spawn too quickly for players to deal with. Suggestion: Increase the time it takes for each one to assemble.

    In the fourth room, the max cap of Villain level Annihilator Bots is too high. Suggestion: Decrease the cap to half of the current amount.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer's Electrical Overload paralyze needs to be given a FREEM! tell indicator.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer's Sparkstorm does not disable travel powers.

    Detached Arm's KABOOM! tell attacks knock through block.

    Fake Dr. Destroyer's <1/3rd HP phase AI only uses Laser Eyes and nothing else if you are further than 50ft away from him.

    Suggestion: Change Fake Dr. Destroyer's movement AI to where he only moves if the player he is targeting is within 45ft of him so that players can still attack him with 50ft range powers without him moving around so much.

    Mega Destroyer part installation times on the open mission indicator do not sync with the system messages that indicate that an installation is complete.

    Mega Destroyer slides too much. Fix: Make him stop sliding so much.

    Mega Destroyer's Pyre cooldown is too low. Suggestion: Increase cooldown so that the Pyre patches don't fill the room too quickly.

    All of Mega Destroyer's Pyre patches disappear from the fight if a player is killed by them, but they should only disappear if the fight resets.

    "Energy Shield Installation" should probably be renamed to "Boneboiler Firejet Fabricator Arm".

    "Assembler Bot" should probably be renamed to "Destreum Chest Plate Fabricator Arm".

    "Sonic Blaster Installation" should probably be renamed to "Howlcannon Amplifier Fabricator Arm".

    "Sonic Stun Installation" should probably be renamed to "Ultra-Resonance Thunderglove Fabricator Arm".

    "Missile Rack Installation" should probably be renamed to "Particle Beam Shoulder Cannon Fabricator Arm" because that is what Fake Dr. Destroyer's voice calls them. The open mission objective should also be changed from "Shockburst Shouldercannon Installation" to "Particle Beam Shoulder Cannon Installation".

    Mega Destroyer using his eye beams on groups of barrels in attempt to get the barrel explosions to damage the players near the barrels are not harming the player.

    You can cause Mega Destroyer to stop his attacks by utilizing the ramp in the room to hide from him. Fix: Make his attacks ignore line of sight.

    You can currently leave the final room during the boss fight. You can leave the final room back towards the previous room without having to wait for interaction time as well. Suggestion: Put an interaction time requirement so that the player can be interrupted from moving rooms.

    Suggestion: Fix everything above then create a second appropriate difficulty Epic lair with drops that would incentivize players to run it. Recommend giving 5 SCR/2 GCR and 500 Questionite Ore per completion up to 3 times per day and a chance to get the Portable Fabricator Arm legendary device.
  • bluhman wrote: »
    Also Doc Destroyer just kiting constantly is annoying. Please tone it down.

    If you bring a ranged tank, he will behave for as long as the tank keeps aggro. In this way, a team is strongly incentivized to bring a ranged tank as they will outperform a melee tank in making the fight smooth. I think this difference creates a positive shift in meta away from melee tanks being the overwhelmingly dominant choice for 1v1 tanking.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    You don't really want the
    Lair Boss to be an annoyance to players that bring the most common form of tank, though. That's not encouraging variation in build or gameplay, it's just being clever-clever.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited January 17
    You don't really want the
    Lair Boss to be an annoyance to players that bring the most common form of tank, though. That's not encouraging variation in build or gameplay, it's just being clever-clever.

    So, if encounters that encourage bringing a different type of tank aren't the solution, then what is?​​
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So, if encounters that encourage bringing a different type of tank aren't the solution, then what is?​​

    Make one which encourages the use of a different type of Tank without being irritating to anyone who brought the usual Melee kind? The issue is about too much movement, not a demand to make the boss immobile. I'm sure it's possible to accommodate everyone, which is normally the best way forward.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,095 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    So, if encounters that encourage bringing a different type of tank aren't the solution, then what is?​​

    Make one which encourages the use of a different type of Tank without being irritating to anyone who brought the usual Melee kind?
    Logical inconsistency there. The only way you encourage a different type of tank is by making that type of tank meaningfully better in that fight. The only way to be meaningfully better is if doing it the normal way is difficult -- which is to say, irritating.

    Of course, there are intermediate solutions; the problem isn't just a kitey boss, it's a kitey boss in a room with obnoxious geometry, so get rid of some of the annoying cruft in the room and it would be better.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 380 Arc User
    I have this on a few of my guys and am waiting for the change before i do it



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