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So just tried the meta Dex build

chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,411 Arc User
I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.
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Comments

  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 643 Arc User
    I tried fiddling with a STR Dragon Claws build with Inexorable Tides for the knock every so often. Didn't stand up to the Dex build.​​
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,510 Arc User
    I think many are expecting that when it gets a pass, FC will either get nerfed in optimal ST dmg and/or its rotation will be made harder to get that sort of dmg, since single-target dmg is pretty much all FC has atm. I expect it to get buffed in other areas, cause the set itself is kinda anemic as is for its unique powers (just the end builder, a form, and 4 attacks: VF, R&T, DC, and TB;- vs. for ex, >10 unique attacks + extra utility powers for the revamped SB).
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  • naciiitonaciiito Posts: 789 Arc User
    It's been a while like that, I feel you​​
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,411 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I think many are expecting that when it gets a pass, FC will either get nerfed in optimal ST dmg and/or its rotation will be made harder to get that sort of dmg, since single-target dmg is pretty much all FC has atm. I expect it to get buffed in other areas, cause the set itself is kinda anemic as is for its unique powers (just the end builder, a form, and 4 attacks: VF, R&T, DC, and TB;- vs. for ex, >10 unique attacks + extra utility powers for the revamped SB).

    It's not just FC that bothers me. It's the whole Dex Focus build meta. Any melee dps can reach high dmg thanks to high crit, FotT, and literally any single target charge power. I want the devs to consider nerfing Dex a bit or buffing non-crit builds so they can be on par. I mean that's why they fixed Ego surge and Wardicator, right? For balance?
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    I was actually shocked when I tried Tiger Bite and, even on crit, it was generating a higher damage tick than Dragon's Claw, so that might also be part of the meta.

    Of course using TB is also foregoing the rush buff, lower energy cost, and the circumstances I was using TB under was also combining it with usage of Viper Claws and the Setup Spec (raises damage significantly after using combos for a while, and VC sets up shred perfectly for TB.) Just mentioning, that possibly could be more meta/generate higher DPS than just pure Dragon Claw spam.

    But yeah! DC! OP! Still is ever since melee became viable in like 2011.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,510 Arc User
    Well, the issue there is that Dex is designed to be more of a raw output stat. FotT may also be a nice universal toggle for melee, but its still pretty rng-based so I wouldn't always recommend it (unlike ES/NM in its heyday, where there just wasn't any alternative anywhere near its potential).

    Perhaps they could consider lightening the DR on Ego and Str's innate dmg bonuses if they think this is a real issue, but they have to be careful w/ that dial. Imo, Dex should still remain at the top if its focus is still on supplementing raw output, but other options can ofc also be competitive in that dimension.
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,411 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    FotT may also be a nice universal toggle for melee, but its still pretty rng-based so I wouldn't always recommend it (unlike ES/NM in its heyday, where there just wasn't any alternative anywhere near its potential).

    Form of the Tiger isn't really rng-based. You get a Focus stack per 60% charge.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 643 Arc User
    I think he was referring to FotT as Form of the Tempest. That one is RNG based.​​
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,510 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    I think he was referring to FotT as Form of the Tempest. That one is RNG based.​​
    Yea, I thought that's what he meant. But sure, FotTiger is the better choice for DC spam, but I guess that's just a tangent here after all

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,168 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    But it's balanced by the fact that it's super boring!

    I love when people who religiously use DC also point out how boring it is... shows you what some people's priorities are ;3​​
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,411 Arc User
    I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack

    1. Stop the lies please, <23k+ crits> you don't need to lie to validate your opinions.
    2. In relative to your opinion on Critical chance in comparison to pre ego surge adv - DEX is the most pathetic of all Super States to scale crit chance. In fact, most people never SS Dex because gamblers scale better to crit chance and completely invalidate the need to go DEX SS when Strengths super stat offers so much more utility. Asking for the worst SS in the game to be nerfed is beyond retarded.
    3. Coming to the forums as another "Pantagruel nerf bunny" because you had what alcoholics refer to as a, "moment of clarity" on PTS, asking to nerf to a power that has been here for 9 years is beyond cliche.

    Had you any real understanding you would know Dragon Claws is absolute crap when compared to other melee powers since most of Dragons Claws damage gets mitigated. And going pure DEX to scale damage is suicide as it offers 0 survivalist ability as compared to Juggernaut in the strengths tree.

    So enough already with the xxx should be Nerfed because I want my xxx to be better.




    Feels like your one of those Dex users who want to keep their dmg. 23k+ is often if you have the AoED buff, but that still doesn't change the fact that Dex is still real powerful on its own. Calling it "pathetic" is a laughable excuse. If it was real pathetic, then why do most top dps I see use it? No matter how you defend it, Dex is quite exploitable.
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  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Dex is a very powerful stat but this is not necessarily due to the stat itself. Dex crit rating diminishes hard around 40%. Most dexers will have around that amount before specs and powers are taken into account.

    The larger issue is that anything that gives a % instead of a rating is not effected by diminishing returns. This means most dexers are running over 50% crit as a baseline when specialization trees are taken into account.

    Now when you add in abilities such as lock n load, imbue, ego surge etc you have people who are averaging out 60-70% crit chance.

    This whole situation feeds right into dragon claws strength which is it’s innate critical severity and why it is vastly over performing.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 542 Arc User
    Don't worry, DC/DW are the only things that have this nonsense. Once the claws adjustments come around(combined with the massive changes to NW), claws will probably go from the top, way down to the bottom without it's +severe, which will be gone.
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,284 Arc User
    Whenever I see an anonymous account with 2 posts I immediately think of a PvPer who doesn't want his broken toy fixed bear-26.gif
    I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack
    1. Stop the lies please, <23k+ crits> you don't need to lie to validate your opinions.
    2. In relative to your opinion on Critical chance in comparison to pre ego surge adv - DEX is the most pathetic of all Super States to scale crit chance. In fact, most people never SS Dex because gamblers scale better to crit chance and completely invalidate the need to go DEX SS when Strengths super stat offers so much more utility. Asking for the worst SS in the game to be nerfed is beyond retarded.
    3. Coming to the forums as another "Pantagruel nerf bunny" because you had what alcoholics refer to as a, "moment of clarity" on PTS, asking to nerf to a power that has been here for 9 years is beyond cliche.

    Had you any real understanding you would know Dragon Claws is absolute crap when compared to other melee powers since most of Dragons Claws damage gets mitigated. And going pure DEX to scale damage is suicide as it offers 0 survivalist ability as compared to Juggernaut in the strengths tree.

    So enough already with the xxx should be Nerfed because I want my xxx to be better.

    I mean, just last night I decided to bring my DC toon to Tako for funsies since I already had everything I wanted and the result was me scoring something short of 10M while the 2nd place was 4M. Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot to prove it (since you seem to be those kind of guys that demand evidence to sustain your claim, but don't provide evidence yourself for your counterarguments) since to me it was mundane, but multiple people in zone saw that and commented on that, some even claiming that I had probably been farming zombies in the zone for hours or some other insane claims, so you can just ask around.

    Dragon Claws damage is completely OP in regards to the investment required to pull that damage. No need to take an advantage or anything, just r3 that baby and you are golden. You can go the extra mile and add a damage debuffer and refresher to get even more insane results like the one I mentioned above.

    Steadfast is also completely broken in that the energy recovery a) scales with a damaging stat instead of an energy stat like all other sets, and b) the stat it happens to scale with is exactly the stat you need to make it proc consistently. Honest how many people do you know that use a Martial Arts powerset and take the non Steadfast EUs. The fact that I can't even remember what the hell they are called already speaks for itself.

    I do agree however that Dex is a super boring stat that could use some tweaking to provide some other bonuses, but so are Recovery and Endurance. Stat revamps is something that I cannot see the dev teams working on though since it will require a lot of rebalancing of forms, passives, EUs, specs, powers, etc. which is something that's probably beyond our current dev team size.

    Now the part where you claim that going full Dex is suicide and that Str is better cause it has Juggernaut...
    a) Pretty sure the dex build Chaos is talking about is Str Prim with Dex stacking which is what a lot of veteran players use. Str tree does offer a lot more useful options than the Dex tree.
    b) Juggernaut scales with Con, not with Str, meaning you would be giving up a LOT of damage for survivability (not only from the SS bonus, but also because you would have to take points away from Overpower/Brutality. Trust me, I've gone insane trying to work on a Str prim dual role tank that could solo Tank dino in the Tank role while not losing substantial amounts of damage on the Melee role, and the best solution I could find is getting 2 sets of gear and stacking Dex (lol) on the melee gear)
    c) There are a lot of people that go Str Prim Full Dex or a mix of Dex/Str mods that end parsing 0 deaths at Cosmics, because the most determinant factor in surviving is knowing how to block. You could invest enough into Juggernaut to barely survive Cosmic AoEs without blocking but again, you'd be losing a lot of DPS for minimum benefits when everyone has the default Block at their disposal.
    spinnytop wrote: »
    "Pantagruel nerf bunny"

    ...is this an actual thing that people say? xD

    I'mma start doing that from now on. This is awesome.normal-25.gif

    Now towards @OP, Str Prim Dex stack is really good for MA, but does not work all that well on some powersets (I'm looking at you bestial). After the Giant Growth nerf I switched Fenrir into a Str Prim Dex Stack Melee/Str Prim Con Stack Tank FoTT and the resulting damage was lower than my current Str Prim Str Stack Enrage mostly because of time wasted unreliably applying 5 Bleed stacks with Shred. Damage would have probably been higher if had gone for Reaper's Caress but THEME!​​
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 977 Arc User
    I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

    Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

    Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.

    So... when you say Dex build, are you saying that you took DEX PSS?
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,411 Arc User
    I'm currently using the Dragon's Claw build since it hasn't been changed yet. But wth, it is so OP! I mean, seriously, you can dish out 23K+ crits with just one attack and because of Steadfast+DEX+Broke FotT stacks you'll never run out of Energy. So you can just continue spamming. Makes me feel like my Str/Con dps is trash even though it can compete with most other dps.

    Geez, DEX build really feels like an easy mode dps. It takes me back when Ego Surge still had a con/crit chance adv. I'm literally green with envy right now. Kinda wish that DEX(or it's Crit Chance) would be nerfed so STR can shine a little brighter.

    Now I see why the majority break theme just to reach this kind of damage. Still prefer Enrage though even after the growth nerf.

    So... when you say Dex build, are you saying that you took DEX PSS?

    Yes actually. Still pretty good even when others suggest STR PSS. The Expose Weakness is good for a crit monkey spammer.
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,284 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    The thing is, you haven't challenged anyone's "complete distortion of facts" since so far you haven't presented any argument.

    You see, balance is important in a game where you can pick to be anything, because if certain powersets are better than others it conditions your choice.

    Lack of balance brings problems like, for example, in TERA where you had 8 different playable races and 90% of the population were Elin (aside from the pedo factor) because they had a smaller hitbox and quicker attack animations. Once that issue was fixed, the race distribution was diversified considerably.
    GG Pantagruel, your lil fanbois win <ruin the game> I blame you since you're the Omega that started all of this 9 years ago. You suck.

    lmao​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,203 Arc User
    GG Pantagruel, your lil fanbois win <ruin the game> I blame you since you're the Omega that started all of this 9 years ago. You suck.
    Huh? The first turbo-nerf to hit CO was the launch day patch, at which point I was a total newbie since I didn't play during beta. I'm curious who you were to think you know stuff about 9 years ago, though, that account appears to be from 2015...
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,284 Arc User
    a) Someone who has no balls and hides behind an alt account
    b) Someone who got his account banned and is now forever salt​​
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 651 Arc User
    It's not like dragon's claws was ever not getting nerfed. When claws get a pass, rush will become an advantage (at the very least). So, I'm not sure what is with all the blame-flinging and salt shaking.

    Some folks do take relentless over steadfast though. I guess the fact that it gives energy over time, instead of in a big clump just makes for a smoother energy curve.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,168 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I just get frustrated seeing everyone feed the one "nerf, sarlac hungry dev" we got instead of encouraging new content.

    I mean sure... if you ignore the fact that every powerset that has been touched has been buffed overall. Once you recognize that fact you realize that you've been chasing phantom nerfherders this entire time.
    You all just keep feeding this mechanism because of some stupid dps charts on cosmic runs that somehow slights your egos.

    Wouldn't someone with scoreboard ego be using a DC/dex build and fighting for it to stay as is?

    The answer is yes. So it's funny how that's you atm.

    GG Pantagruel, your lil fanbois win <ruin the game> I blame you since you're the Omega that started all of this 9 years ago. You suck.

    If Panta is responsible for what's been happening to the game then I'd like to join his fanclub. Where do I go to do that? o3o I'd love to be a Pantabunny.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,203 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    it's people confusing cause and effect. The sequence is:
    Something is OP
    I say it's OP (or maybe I don't, plenty of stuff I don't notice and/or comment on).
    It gets nerfed (sometimes months or years later).

    Clearly my fault
  • paradise1killerparadise1killer Posts: 10 Arc User
    Did anyone get close to 24k crits with Dragon claw I tried this on test server with justice gear and I am getting no where close to this.. Has it been nerfed?

    I have way easier time with power armor getting 24k + consistantly but it has a set up time
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  • theglasskittentheglasskitten Posts: 132 Arc User
    Most dragons claw users crit in the 13-16k area on test dummies. Consistency is the key
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  • I always thought the upsides to DC spam were meant to balance the fact that the animation looks so dorky.
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