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I suggest you fix Kinetic Manipulation

navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
I mean, come on, now Devs. It's been well over 4 years now this power has been so broken it is unusable. Surely somebody somewhere has noticed this and brought it to the table to fix it. You guys have time to add new gambling boxes to the game regularly, you have time to add silly 10 minute team play mini-missions to the game, you do all sorts of things that don't fix anything...the very least you can do is fix this one power that has broken for WELL over 4 years now. It was broken BEFORE PW came along. I have put in tickets for this, I have put this on the bugs forums...and it continues to be ignored. No Dev has even spoken on it or even acknowledged the power's downfalls.

The 8 second timer that shuts down Kinetic Manipulation resets over and over and that 8 second down time turns in to more like a 16 second downtime. The power has been broken in this way for WELL over 4 years...if not 5 years. I have reported this bug over 4 years ago, and I mention it at least once a year since then so people don't forget about it. There is a reason people are taking Quarry instead of Kinetic Manipulation. It's a 20% difference in DPS...that's not good.

This needs to be fixed and soon....my personal patience with this Dev team's lack of bug fixing capabilities is wearing very thin. I have never had a love for PW...in my opinion it's worse than the way I felt about Cryptic after they had bold faced lied about what Star Trek Online was going to be. PW is more concerned with robbing people blind with Gambling Boxes than they are with fixing bugs. Let's not mention that everything people are dumping thousands of dollars in to, we used to get for our regular 15 bucks a month. You want to rip people off with these gambling boxes, that's fine by me...if people want to stick their heads in the sand and ignore the fact they are being ripped off, fine. But at very least...you can fix your bugs. That would be great.

Comments

  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    Best hope for Kinetic Manipulation(and Force in general) is if and when Force Revamp comes along, it's all business otherwise.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    rtma wrote: »
    Best hope for Kinetic Manipulation(and Force in general) is if and when Force Revamp comes along, it's all business otherwise.

    Noticed and noted. ;)
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    This needs to be fixed and soon....my personal patience with this Dev team's lack of bug fixing capabilities is wearing very thin.

    Would you like some cheese with your whine?​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    This needs to be fixed and soon....my personal patience with this Dev team's lack of bug fixing capabilities is wearing very thin.

    Would you like some cheese with your whine?​​

    Well, bud...if you want to be complacent and be a good little fan boi and be completely docile with the bugs that never get fixed in this game, that's on you. However...don;t come in here patronizing me with your juvenile B.S. You and I both know the only reason why you are being so bold is because you have the anonymity of the internet. So your weak attempt to goad me only shows your cowardice.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    KM is pretty damn bad but oh well, if it gets fixed, great! If not, well there's other sets/if not that, then other games. It's what I do whenever something doesn't catch my interest here. Even better for me due to LTS/zen
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Well, bud...if you want to be complacent and be a good little fan boi and be completely docile with the bugs that never get fixed in this game, that's on you. However...don;t come in here patronizing me with your juvenile B.S. You and I both know the only reason why you are being so bold is because you have the anonymity of the internet. So your weak attempt to goad me only shows your cowardice.

    We're gonna need a bigger cheese.​​
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    The problem isn't kinetic manipulation (KM is underperforming but not buggy), the problem is force cascade. And it will be fixed whenever the force pass happens.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    In the meantime just use Night Warrior or Quarry. If you're playing an Impulse... why are you playing an Impulse? u3u​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    In the meantime just use Night Warrior or Quarry. If you're playing an Impulse... why are you playing an Impulse? u3u​​

    I have all free forms. I don't play AT's. However, about once a year I try to respec in to KM, to see if it has been fixed yet...and sure enough, the countdown on the energy cancellation debuff is still broken. So about once a year, it pi**es me off.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Oh well. Now you know you can stop being angry about it and just wait for the Force pass.​​
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    I use Quarry for my own Force DPS, but I really wish I didn't
    I want to know what GENIUS though it was a good idea to make the Force Powerframe Passive penalize you

    Kinetic Manipulation is really underwelming passive, and even on Non-Force builds, people used to make Munition DPS builds with it but now with the fixed/buffed Targeting Computer and Composure nobody looks back it
    even Earth Form is better

    for Force Cascade builds Night Warrior and Quarry are still better
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Oh well. Now you know you can stop being angry about it and just wait for the Force pass.
    Yeah... but the waiting game for revamps S U C K
    This can take 3-6 months from now or 2 years depending on the DEVs' scendule and delays​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    avianos wrote: »
    Yeah... but the waiting game for revamps S U C K
    This can take 3-6 months from now or 2 years depending on the DEVs' scendule and delays

    Oh well. Just use NW/Quarry in the meantime. No biggie. KM wouldn't be a better option even if that bug was fixed. Isn't Earth Form an option too? I forget.​​
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Oh well. Just use NW/Quarry in the meantime. No biggie. KM wouldn't be a better option even if that bug was fixed. Isn't Earth Form an option too? I forget.
    Can Do

    Nope, Earth Form also counts as Energy Form (Recovers energy when you receive Crushing Damage) and gets absorbed by FC

    HOWEVER a 3rd viable options is UNSTOPPABLE, The energy gain from knocking is helpful and it doesn't even matter thats its a melee passive the damage is good​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    I personally use Quarry. However, Quarry is 20% less damage than what you would get with KM. KM would at least put the build on par with other sets...or at least closer to it. If we could turn all those knock backs in to knock downs instead, that would also help the build. I know when I play my Tank, Force Cascade is a nightmare with trying to keep mobs stacked on my Tank. It's hopeless. Now if those Force abilities were Knock Downs instead, it would actually help give my Tank a break from damage while the NPC's pick themselves back up off the ground. But when they scatter, they just end up all over the place. But yeah, I would love to have that 20% damage back. Quarry isn't good for Force builds...it's just the only real viable sustained DPS option.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I personally use Quarry. However, Quarry is 20%

    I highly doubt you're doing 20% more damage with KM, even if the form eating aspect was completely removed.​​
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,075 Arc User
    Of course it's nice to be able to have options if you want a Force-user/Force Cascade spammer. But, the Offensive passive, in the set, shouldn't be the worst option in comparison (yeah, hyperbole ... but you get the point).

    They did something recently for Gigabolt + Electric Sheath in that it disables the ... "disable" of more charged Gigabolts, for the duration of Electric Sheath. Frankly, that's the sort of thing that should go into KM. As long as the passive is slotted, disable the "energy form disable on use of Force Cascade", at least in relation to KM itself. KM Passive is active, then Force Cascade is always at a reduced cost.

    I don't know about the bugs with the form otherwise, as I haven't used it for quite some time. And, even then only for Munitions build.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Also there's that neat thing you can do with the Force Energy Builder. It has an advantage that makes a shield, and if you use FC while that shield is on you it will eat the shield instead of your passive. I say "neat" and not useful because sitting around using your energy builder waiting for a random proc isn't really so great. I'd like to see something like that done, but more active - maybe giving a cooldown power the ability to put a buff on yourself that counts as an energy form that FC can eat.​​
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Also there's that neat thing you can do with the Force Energy Builder. It has an advantage that makes a shield, and if you use FC while that shield is on you it will eat the shield instead of your passive. I say "neat" and not useful because sitting around using your energy builder waiting for a random proc isn't really so great. I'd like to see something like that done, but more active - maybe giving a cooldown power the ability to put a buff on yourself that counts as an energy form that FC can eat.​​

    THIS is a great idea.

  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,075 Arc User
    You can always get the energy circle (Circle of Arcane Power) at any rank. It is created in a short time and has no cooldown and is the energy form that FC eats. So, create a circle, fire Force Cascade, create another circle, fire Force Cascade, etc.

    However, in my experience, it's preferable to work the energy stats, the form, etc to allow you to fire off full Force Cascades, with minimal Energy Builder use, than to try to do the circle dance ... or other things.​​
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,428 Arc User
    I like to use Unstoppable with FC. Boundless energy from all the knocks. Great fun.
    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Also there's that neat thing you can do with the Force Energy Builder. It has an advantage that makes a shield, and if you use FC while that shield is on you it will eat the shield instead of your passive. I say "neat" and not useful because sitting around using your energy builder waiting for a random proc isn't really so great. I'd like to see something like that done, but more active - maybe giving a cooldown power the ability to put a buff on yourself that counts as an energy form that FC can eat.​​

    Negative Ghost Rider.

    It still shuts down your Energy Form. The only thing that bubble does is give you a power discount, which is nice, but doesn't work as I had hoped. If it actually did just eat the bubble without canceling out the Energy Form, it would be more tempting to pick KM up. Sadly, even with the bubble, I am still using Quarry. Also...it is 20%. It may be 18 or 19, but rounded to 20%. It's a pretty big difference.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Well I know it used to. Used to do that in AT PvP on my Impulse so I could give people back-to-back full charge FCs.​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Well I know it used to. Used to do that in AT PvP on my Impulse so I could give people back-to-back full charge FCs.​​

    Hell, I could only WISH it still worked that way. I could possibly work around that if it did. It would still limit my use of FC, but at least I would maintain my form and could make use of other abilities.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Btw I was just in the PH, took KM and used Force cascade then immediately hit a power with a 10 second cooldown so I could time the duration of the energy form lockout debuff. It was 8 seconds every single time - it always went away ~2 seconds before the other power came off cooldown.

    If you're seeing the number on the debuff occasionally go back up, that's not actually causing it to take longer. I get that with my holds on my CCer too, the numbers go up sometimes, but the overall duration remains the same. Has something to do with the server and the client communicating about the duration.​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Btw I was just in the PH, took KM and used Force cascade then immediately hit a power with a 10 second cooldown so I could time the duration of the energy form lockout debuff. It was 8 seconds every single time - it always went away ~2 seconds before the other power came off cooldown.

    If you're seeing the number on the debuff occasionally go back up, that's not actually causing it to take longer. I get that with my holds on my CCer too, the numbers go up sometimes, but the overall duration remains the same. Has something to do with the server and the client communicating about the duration.​​

    Really? Hmmmm....So you are saying (just to be clear) that the timer is wrong when it ticks back up to 8 seconds, and that the KM buff is actually back up and running after 8 seconds?

    TO me, it was like, any attack power at all would reset the timer, even if it was an energy builder. When I tested it, the only way I could get that timer to be correct, is if I did not attack at all. But any time I attacked with any type of ability, it would randomly reset the timer to 8 seconds again.
  • circleofpsi#4619 circleofpsi Posts: 2,913 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    This needs to be fixed and soon....my personal patience with this Dev team's lack of bug fixing capabilities is wearing very thin.

    Would you like some cheese with your whine?​​


    lol, I just got that..


    Well done Spinny
    Psi.
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    This needs to be fixed and soon....my personal patience with this Dev team's lack of bug fixing capabilities is wearing very thin.

    Would you like some cheese with your whine?​​


    lol, I just got that..


    Well done Spinny

    What are you, some F'ing cheer leader? Once a follower, always a follower, eh? Gotta love Beta Males...
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Really? Hmmmm....So you are saying (just to be clear) that the timer is wrong when it ticks back up to 8 seconds, and that the KM buff is actually back up and running after 8 seconds?

    TO me, it was like, any attack power at all would reset the timer, even if it was an energy builder. When I tested it, the only way I could get that timer to be correct, is if I did not attack at all. But any time I attacked with any type of ability, it would randomly reset the timer to 8 seconds again.

    Can you show me this in-game? I can't reproduce it. Even spamming FC didn't make it happen.​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Really? Hmmmm....So you are saying (just to be clear) that the timer is wrong when it ticks back up to 8 seconds, and that the KM buff is actually back up and running after 8 seconds?

    TO me, it was like, any attack power at all would reset the timer, even if it was an energy builder. When I tested it, the only way I could get that timer to be correct, is if I did not attack at all. But any time I attacked with any type of ability, it would randomly reset the timer to 8 seconds again.

    Can you show me this in-game? I can't reproduce it. Even spamming FC didn't make it happen.​​

    Yes, I can make a video of it. Let me get woke up and up and moving and I'll make a quick video. I will need to respec again to do it, but I'm almost level 40 on this particular character (I have two force characters) and I'll post the vid link.
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Really? Hmmmm....So you are saying (just to be clear) that the timer is wrong when it ticks back up to 8 seconds, and that the KM buff is actually back up and running after 8 seconds?

    TO me, it was like, any attack power at all would reset the timer, even if it was an energy builder. When I tested it, the only way I could get that timer to be correct, is if I did not attack at all. But any time I attacked with any type of ability, it would randomly reset the timer to 8 seconds again.

    Can you show me this in-game? I can't reproduce it. Even spamming FC didn't make it happen.​​


    Okay, I made a video that clearly shows the big. It's after about the third or fourth Cascade that the bug happens. I am using nothing but Cascade and the energy builder. It ticks down to 1 second, then restarts at 7 seconds again. I keep my mouse hovered over Cascade to show the damage does not go back up after the countdown resets. It's definitely still bugged.

    Video is here
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Strange, no matter how many times I try it just doesn't happen to me.​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Strange, no matter how many times I try it just doesn't happen to me.​​

    I sure wish I had your luck. Every play the lottery? lol
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Really? Hmmmm....So you are saying (just to be clear) that the timer is wrong when it ticks back up to 8 seconds, and that the KM buff is actually back up and running after 8 seconds?

    TO me, it was like, any attack power at all would reset the timer, even if it was an energy builder. When I tested it, the only way I could get that timer to be correct, is if I did not attack at all. But any time I attacked with any type of ability, it would randomly reset the timer to 8 seconds again.

    Can you show me this in-game? I can't reproduce it. Even spamming FC didn't make it happen.​​


    Okay, I made a video that clearly shows the big. It's after about the third or fourth Cascade that the bug happens. I am using nothing but Cascade and the energy builder. It ticks down to 1 second, then restarts at 7 seconds again. I keep my mouse hovered over Cascade to show the damage does not go back up after the countdown resets. It's definitely still bugged.

    Video is here

    I saw it. That's rather odd and yeah seems pretty bad. I can only hope they'd fix it
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    I sure wish I had your luck. Every play the lottery? lol

    An unfortunate possibility is that the devs might not be able to recreate it either, and hence why it hasn't been fixed.​​
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I sure wish I had your luck. Every play the lottery? lol

    An unfortunate possibility is that the devs might not be able to recreate it either, and hence why it hasn't been fixed.​​

    Well at least they have a video to go off of now. Would be nice if a Dev would chime in.
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