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Would you like to see them keep the Subcription System?

Would you like to see them keep the Subcription System? 89 votes

Yes!
29%
themightyzenithzemmaxnephtmarafainarf#9213gradiiozoaslumpywpgjasinblazecrowcaine#6416arclon1263berucrossisis418vylmaspeanozoxygenatediggotsapphiechuladyinferno2010anarchium22 26 votes
No
25%
jojenmaihemstergapantagruel01colonelwingaesicabluhmandeadman20soulforgernbkxsadmflamebergperis99drjordo1spinnytopkamokamitorduvidecruunchmagpieuk2014zwipezanthertheteostarnacito#6758 23 votes
Add Vip Like Neverwinters in the Zen Store.
2%
hasukurobirimuru#4730 2 votes
Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
42%
nique554itsbrou#5396starguardsmanjonsillsflyingfinndraogngtw891ealford1985chaelkbluegrassbeastblazer2001biffsmackwellpsychicslugzedecks#7196shilarraighncombatclown81garyg07gillfignofignosungunjester 38 votes
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Comments

  • diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    Yes!

    Yes.. I see no reason for this change, except PWE wanting more money for their bonuschecks.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    No
    The gold sub is still crap. Former gold subs should be grandfathered in and the Premium Pack should have gold slots with those silver ones. LTS can stay. It's still a great deal and you can still spend your stipend for more character slots.​​
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  • vylmavylma Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    I agree with sterga but I voted YES. :bleep_bloop:

    I could also have voted "Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription"... It wasn't an easy decision.

    I mean I agree with her on longtime Gold subscribers (800+ days) getting the LTS status, they've earned it. But I don't think Gold subscriptions should disappear especially when FF is about to become extremely expensive for new players.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    No
    Subscriptions are an outdated model, and the game can't support infinite character slots. I suspect that we were simply operating on borrowed time in regard to that second issue, with the numbers building over time - we may in fact be lucky that that particular change happened before it started crashing the server, randomly wiping it characters, or some other thing that would have upset people much more.

    Some people will adjust to the new character limit by deleting old characters so they can make new ones. Some people will stop playing entirely, which oddly enough removes their ability to play new characters moreso than the people who choose to adjust. On this issue, what's going to happen is going to happen and there's no changing it. The simple truth here is that we got something we weren't supposed to have.

    I'm not sad to see subscriptions go at all though and I don't see a reason why people would bemoan the loss of a monthly payment method. I'm not happy either - really I just don't care.
  • folv#5303 folv Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Subscriptions are an outdated model, and the game can't support infinite character slots. I suspect that we were simply operating on borrowed time in regard to that second issue, with the numbers building over time - we may in fact be lucky that that particular change happened before it started crashing the server, randomly wiping it characters, or some other thing that would have upset people much more.

    Some people will adjust to the new character limit by deleting old characters so they can make new ones. Some people will stop playing entirely, which oddly enough removes their ability to play new characters moreso than the people who choose to adjust. On this issue, what's going to happen is going to happen and there's no changing it. The simple truth here is that we got something we weren't supposed to have.

    I'm not sad to see subscriptions go at all though and I don't see a reason why people would bemoan the loss of a monthly payment method. I'm not happy either - really I just don't care.

    Subscriptions are not outdated; they are abused. World Of Warcraft still operates on the exact same payment system and is still the most popular MMO in existence so you can toss that presumption out the window. Subscriptions simply offer no value for a game that isn't receiving consistent development. *That* is the issue.

    As someone who has not reached that 59 limit, my issue is that it forces me to spend an additional $300+ just to reach the cap ON TOP of my already purchased LTS. If I would have known I would have to factor in character slot purchases for an equal-to-if-not-more cost than the LTS itself then I would never have purchased it. Am I to be punished simply because I am a latecomer to the game who didn't have the time to obtain these slots? (don't get me wrong, I know the answer to that).

    Also, the reason that people are "bemoaning" the loss of the previous plan is because it was more affordable. This change is superficially creating a paywall for both freeform and character slots. Right now with this implementation you'd be paying $50 (FF) + $7.50 (Character Slot) for the use of one single freeform toon in replacement of what use to be $15/m (for infinite FF) + $0 for character slots if you leveled your toons to max. That's a massive change and the math just doesn't add up for anyone. Personally (if I wasn't LTS), I would have to spend around $300 to cap out. If I wanted those toons to all be freeform (as anyone should since this game heavily favors the FF option) i'd be looking at an additional $2950 to secure all those toons as FF. That's $3250 for something that use to cost $15/m, period. So to BREAK EVEN I would have to play for 216 months (18 years). Clearly, this isn't an option. So would I would have to do is pay the $200-$300 for a now worthless LTS that saves nothing in terms of future sub costs. But I would still be stuck with that $300 bill to cap out on slots. THAT is why people are frustrated. And to downplay it is absolutely ridiculous as these cost examples don't even consider other luxury-features such as hideouts, auras, vehicles, sidekicks, etc.

  • stealthriderstealthrider Posts: 86 Arc User
    Subs should disappear, all characters should be freeform and it should have happened seven years ago.

    At the very least current Gold characters should be permanent freeforms. It won't happen, though, nor will the silver->FF tokens that they claim they'll "maybe" work on "eventually." They are deliberately screwing over players once again. Maybe if people complain enough they'll change their minds this time, but from what I've seen there are far fewer people complaining than there were back then and the anger just isn't there, either.

    Get angry. You should be angry. Even if you're an LTS and not affected as much as the Golds, former Golds and potential new players that will very surely be driven off by the game's horrible-and-about-to-get-worse business model, you should be angry. This is not the time for civility and not the time for bargaining. Cryptic is taking a crap on their playerbase once again, they're driving players away once again and trying to gouge as much as they can from the few that will pay it once again.

    Our complaints fell on deaf ears back then, and it was likely due to the number and volume of Cryptic's defenders, those that had already bought LTS or felt that $50 for a freeform slot wasn't a big deal, or that former subs and preorder/box-purchase players didn't deserve to be grandfathered into the new system.

    Well now they're pulling the same garbage and it is indefensible. So many players could be returning to the game if their gold characters were unlocked. Cryptic knows this, they have to, and yet they still chose--deliberately and intentionally--to instead screw those players out of playing those characters ever again without paying FAR more than is reasonable for any budget.

    Don't think of this as being PWE's fault. Cryptic did this the first time before PWE bought them. Don't propose alternatives that still screw over players. Don't justify it, don't let them do this again. Vote with your wallet if you can, but don't be quiet and don't be civil. Make sure they know how ridiculous this is and that the players will not stand for any part of it.

    No compromises. They didn't compromise back then, you shouldn't be willing to compromise now. No half measures. Full change or let the game die as it surely will if it goes live like this.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    No
    I selected no, only because you forgot one option: No, but do not convert free form toons to silver toons, allow players to keep their free form toons.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    The poll's choices are a bit screwy and don't properly reflect the possible opinions. Therefore the results of the poll aren't going to properly reflect opinions.
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    :#
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    No
    Another problem with the gold sub is that it's a janky mess. Anyone who's flipped between silver and gold can tell you. Even though I've been a silver player for years now, there are things I can't buy because sometimes I'm magically considered a current subscriber. Of course it's never for anything good like getting a stipend or 'meh' like getting monthly rewards.

    I'd rather see gold subs go away and Cryptic to at least pretend they care about the people who help pay their bills and support the game more than they can be assed to.​​
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  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    No
    soulforger wrote: »
    I selected no, only because you forgot one option: No, but do not convert free form toons to silver toons, allow players to keep their free form toons.

    this mainly. This is putting the game on a fast-track to P2W, way moreso than it had been in the past.

    The age of this game means it's always been saddled with a really awkward relationship to subscription models. Even now, though, it's a bit too restrictive. To get anywhere near an acceptable experience for things like endgame content (i.e. 4-5 different freeforms that fulfill different roles: AoE DPS, Focus DPS, Tank, Healer, Controller...) you're going to have to shell out $200.00, basically a LTS cost.

    As others have mentioned there also needs to be some sort of premium pack that includes a set of freeform slots. The value of a freeform slot also really needs to be reevaluated going into this model.

    Failing that, all the old archetypes, and especially the free ones, need to be reviewed so that they can operate in the current meta. Right now, for example, I don't think I'd see any way an Inventor AT would be doing passable healing for a Cosmic Tank, and inversely, I'd be hard-pressed to see the Behemoth AT survive as a tank in those situations either.

    my opinion might be skewed since I got lifetime a while ago.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    No
    folv#5303 wrote: »
    Subscriptions are not outdated; they are abused. World Of Warcraft still operates on the exact same payment system and is still the most popular MMO in existence so you can toss that presumption out the window. Subscriptions simply offer no value for a game that isn't receiving consistent development. *That* is the issue.

    In the same paragraph you have claimed subscriptions are not outdated, and then explained why they are.
  • stealthriderstealthrider Posts: 86 Arc User
    bluhman wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    I selected no, only because you forgot one option: No, but do not convert free form toons to silver toons, allow players to keep their free form toons.

    this mainly. This is putting the game on a fast-track to P2W, way moreso than it had been in the past.

    The age of this game means it's always been saddled with a really awkward relationship to subscription models. Even now, though, it's a bit too restrictive. To get anywhere near an acceptable experience for things like endgame content (i.e. 4-5 different freeforms that fulfill different roles: AoE DPS, Focus DPS, Tank, Healer, Controller...) you're going to have to shell out $200.00, basically a LTS cost.

    As others have mentioned there also needs to be some sort of premium pack that includes a set of freeform slots. The value of a freeform slot also really needs to be reevaluated going into this model.

    Failing that, all the old archetypes, and especially the free ones, need to be reviewed so that they can operate in the current meta. Right now, for example, I don't think I'd see any way an Inventor AT would be doing passable healing for a Cosmic Tank, and inversely, I'd be hard-pressed to see the Behemoth AT survive as a tank in those situations either.

    my opinion might be skewed since I got lifetime a while ago.

    The ATs are and always have been terrible. The game isn't designed for ATs, it's designed for freeforms and always has been. ATs should never have been introduced. They could have monetized powersets, sure, but locking characters to ATs (and locking nearly all of them) is what caused this mess in the first place.

    All characters should be freeform, as they were intended to be, but *especially* all Gold characters should be permanently freeform.
  • folv#5303 folv Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    spinnytop wrote: »
    folv#5303 wrote: »
    Subscriptions are not outdated; they are abused. World Of Warcraft still operates on the exact same payment system and is still the most popular MMO in existence so you can toss that presumption out the window. Subscriptions simply offer no value for a game that isn't receiving consistent development. *That* is the issue.

    In the same paragraph you have claimed subscriptions are not outdated, and then explained why they are.

    I didn't in any way give a defense for the idea that monthly payment models are 'outdated'. In the context of a game (Champions Online) that does produces little to no content for their game this is a terrible payment plan and I am saying that it offers no real value. If you are actually admitting that this is the case, which you've been somewhat denying on other posts, then you are further validating my concerns even if it was unintentional.

    That being said, this change offers even LESS of a value than monthly subs, monetarily speaking. So it is a step far backwards in terms of introducing a payment plan that makes any sense for it's current 'dead-in-the-water' development style. It asks for more money for less content in a game that produces very little additional content due to a small development team. My claim was that subs offer no value for a game that isn't receiving development not to disparage the monthly sub business model, but to emphasize the point that this game is doing nothing to make any sort of progress while still attempting to siphon *additional* money from players. This was bad enough, but now they are unashamedly putting a system in place that makes it even more expensive. I feel that is made pretty clear in my post.
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Posts: 722 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    I am a life time subber and i did it a while ago, they have up dated and added many things and even more maps and end content. But them doing this does sound like they are trying to kill the game, but then again there may be something else we are not seeing. As they said they have some big things coming so could be that they are going to do some major revamps and possibly add things. This would be the case then it would draw in new people and they then would have to clear out some old clutter. By clutter i mean old systems, and broken elements like the ones they are fixing, i mean who would have seen the nemesis systems being over hulled. I say give them some space and see where this is headed and maybe it might turn out ok i hope.
  • stealthriderstealthrider Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I am a life time subber and i did it a while ago, they have up dated and added many things and even more maps and end content. But them doing this does sound like they are trying to kill the game, but then again there may be something else we are not seeing. As they said they have some big things coming so could be that they are going to do some major revamps and possibly add things. This would be the case then it would draw in new people and they then would have to clear out some old clutter. By clutter i mean old systems, and broken elements like the ones they are fixing, i mean who would have seen the nemesis systems being over hulled. I say give them some space and see where this is headed and maybe it might turn out ok i hope.

    People said the same thing 7 years ago. Seven years later, what's changed?

    They aren't going to make all characters freeform, so they aren't going to draw in any new players. The best they can hope for is if they made all current Gold characters into permanent freeforms, older players might come back to the game. They aren't doing that, though.

    This is not going to turn out okay. Waiting and hoping will do nothing. Fight this if you want the game to survive.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    No
    folv#5303 wrote: »
    I feel that is made pretty clear in my post.

    The game is receiving development. That's not up for debate.

    The value of subscriptions are deceptive and the entire model is manipulative and people are realizing this, and the industry has largely moved past them. New games that come out and try the sub model are going F2P at record speeds. People don't want to pay subs anymore. Even WoW is bleeding players, and the only reason it can survive is because its sheer size will take some time to wittle down - simply put, what applies to WoW generally doesn't apply to other games just like saying "well this wave didn't knock over my aircraft carrier, so your dingy should be fine".
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    No
    I don't mind going from a subscription model to pay-as-you-go. The issues are how about we move from one to the other without a) losing players who have been loyal subscribers and who still want to play and b) allow returning players to come back without having to pay massive costs to unlock all their old subscription content.

    a) is a matter of confidence. Dedicated players will maintain their subscriptions and pay the new additional costs on character slots and retcons as long as they're assured that they won't be permanently denied access to their Gold content because of admin mistakes. Silence from Cryptic or PWI on this matter won't be acceptable, because it will just lead to a loss of confidence and slow drift of players away from the game.

    b) Most players have left CO because they think there's nothing more do to in the game. We do have new development, limited as it is, and we need to ensure that players who are interested in new content can come back and play in some way. Most of the new content is high-level stuff, so it's imperative that former Gold players can come back and check it out without being presented with two in-game options: to start from the beginning with a new character, or pay an LTS. Because they'll probably exercise their own third option and walk away. They should allow people to pay a small fee (similar to a subscription cost) to re-activate some of their old Gold content on a permanent basis. Put some time restrictions on it if you must (the player must have subbed for a minimum of a year or similar), but make it simple and fair.
  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,529 Arc User
    No
    I don't know enough about the Neverwinter VIP thing to vote on that, but in truth I do not mind subscription models going away. To me, they're one option of many possible ways to provide benefits to paying players. That's up to the company to decide how they want to make their money. What I DO mind is Freeforms as a service no longer being a thing. Instead, what we will be left with a very expensive alternative gating players from enjoying one of the biggest reasons to play CO.

    Perhaps the VIP is much like an actual subscription, but can be paid for via in-game dedication. I don't keep tabs on NW to know what their system is like. One interesting idea that comes to mind that I think I would really love to see is a system similar to Wildstar's CREDD, where players can pay in-game for a temporary service to access premium content for a short time. In our case, that service is Freeform access on all character slots. It's essentially like paying a subscription, but with the opportunity to play for it instead.

    It actually may make sense for such an option to be added in alongside the Premium Pack as a separate purchase in the Zen Store itself. We can grind for Questionite to convert to Zen already, so it may not be a bad option for both paying and non-paying players to have access to it. At that point though, it's basically just asking to keep the subscription model in a roundabout way.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    No
    I think a 5$ item that specifically converts only Sub FFs created before a certain date would be a fair solution, assuming that's all possible. Previously subbed players could start using their $15 per month to instead start converting their characters 3-at a time. Sure I expect only outrage and accusations of [insert evil thing here] as a response to this, but to me it seems fair and is something I would be willing to pay if put in that situation ( though personally I would probably do it faster than 3 a month, at least at first ). This way the game maintains that revenue for some period, and players have a way to gain permanent access. The fact that it only works on Sub FFs created before a certain date means it won't step on the toes of possible FF slot sales by allowing people to use this option to get a FF slot for 5$ rather than 50$.

    My fantasy solution is a one-time purchase that just converts all Sub FFs to permanent status, but I won't bother naming a price for that and I don't have much hope that that's what we'll get.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    No
    Good god, Spinny and I agree on something. <faints>
  • folv#5303 folv Posts: 96 Arc User
    Yes!
    spinnytop wrote: »
    folv#5303 wrote: »
    I feel that is made pretty clear in my post.

    The game is receiving development. That's not up for debate.

    The value of subscriptions are deceptive and the entire model is manipulative and people are realizing this, and the industry has largely moved past them. New games that come out and try the sub model are going F2P at record speeds. People don't want to pay subs anymore. Even WoW is bleeding players, and the only reason it can survive is because its sheer size will take some time to wittle down - simply put, what applies to WoW generally doesn't apply to other games just like saying "well this wave didn't knock over my aircraft carrier, so your dingy should be fine".

    Good, absolutely no one was debating that there are zero updates.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    No
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I think a 5$ item that specifically converts only Sub FFs created before a certain date would be a fair solution, assuming that's all possible.
    They could probably leverage the veteran bonus system.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,777 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    All I can say is that it's sad, after everything, after all the reductions, after all the potential squandered, that anyone can rationalize one of the most powerful forces driving subscribers to keep playing being nixed and after all this loyalty to the game, being told to go buy slots. Don't give me the limitations spiel. You had 10 years to do something about that. How foolish of me.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    No
    folv#5303 wrote: »
    Good, absolutely no one was debating that there are zero updates.

    Good, it'd be silly to try to debate something so clearly untrue.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 766 Arc User
    No
    No, I agree with Foxi on this one.
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    while everyone is focussed on this, did you notice the other item being changed.
    Good news, Champions! We’re making it cheaper and easier to get more costume slots for your characters! Starting on June 7th, we’ll be changing the way you purchase costumes in the Z-store, and replacing our single costume and account wide two costume packs with two new items that offer more costumes for less Zen.

    The new items are:

    Two Costume Slots for one character for 150 Zen

    Five Costume Slots for one character for 300 Zen.

    Enjoy these new options, and we can’t wait to see you at the next costume contest, Champions!
    you now can only buy costume slots per character
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    chaelk wrote: »
    you now can only buy costume slots per character
    ...at a time. Like the two-character-slots-for-1400-Zen deal, you can do it more than once.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    No
    The subscription system is buggy enough that I suspect a large part of their motivation for the change is to eliminate the bugs (and associated customer service costs) by eliminating the system. The problem is that CO tied freeform characters to the subscription system, which is extremely different from what STO and NWN did, and that means eliminating subscriptions in CO leaves people who are using subscriptions in a bad place (people who prefer to play Silver are better off with this change. People who are LTS are only affected if they are altoholics, though CO does have a non-negligible number of those).

    I think the solution would have to be along the lines of:
    1. Offer a 'freeform conversion' item or service in the z store.
    2. Either set its base price low, or sell packs of conversions where the cost of multiple is lower than the cost of one. Given that LTS includes a stipend, whereas freeform slot does not, something that converts all your characters should be around half the cost of LTS (goes on sale when LTS does), with lower cost for limited numbers.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    sterga wrote: »
    LTS can stay. It's still a great deal and you can still spend your stipend for more character slots.​​

    no.... no we can't... I'm currently sitting at 58 character slots, I have an LTS... after this change I will be able to purchase exactly 1 more character slot, EVER... PERIOD... I can't EVER get more characters after that unless I make an alternate account and then I have to buy all the costume parts I want on any characters on that account all over again, pay for a 2nd LTS to have all my characters as FFs since there is absolutely zero chance of me ever spending $50(or even $25 on sale) for a single character slot.
    sterga wrote: »
    Another problem with the gold sub is that it's a janky mess. Anyone who's flipped between silver and gold can tell you.

    Ok... that I can agree and atest too... the last time my subscription lapsed I was forced to quit playing for a few months until I could afford to resubscribe due to all of my characters "requiring a retrain token" to convert to silver ATs and having zero retrain tokens on my account... that **** is the main reason why I broke down and bought an LTS... my Subscription was lapsing for a week every month due to financial reasons, and every time I was forced to convert different characters, because the ones I converted the previous time weren't eligible unless I bought a retrain token from the zen store. It really ticked me off and every support ticket I submitted about it got an automated response and locked.

    Regardless however... I see zero reason to remove the subscription option...
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    No
    raighn wrote: »
    Regardless however... I see zero reason to remove the subscription option...
    "It worked horribly, but I see no reason to remove it"...
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    raighn wrote: »
    Regardless however... I see zero reason to remove the subscription option...
    "It worked horribly, but I see no reason to remove it"...

    The model was fine, just needed the changing from silver to gold and vice-versa system fixed/improved.



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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    No
    Now taking bets on if that's one of those problems that they can't fix. I'm going to put the odds at Potato to Doge.
  • combatclown81combatclown81 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    sterga wrote: »
    The gold sub is still crap. Former gold subs should be grandfathered in and the Premium Pack should have gold slots with those silver ones. LTS can stay. It's still a great deal and you can still spend your stipend for more character slots.​​

    If you feel like waiting 13 months every time you want a new freeform slot you go right ahead. I wouldn't mind the change so much if they allow people to get up to 59 slots by max leveling characters. However, if I read it right you will no longer get any character slots for max leveling. I only have 37 character slots right now.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    No
    The model was fine, just needed the changing from silver to gold and vice-versa system fixed/improved.
    This may well come under the category of "costs more to fix than it's worth".
    If you feel like waiting 13 months every time you want a new freeform slot you go right ahead.
    You don't need to get freeform slots as LTS, just get regular slots.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    The model was fine, just needed the changing from silver to gold and vice-versa system fixed/improved.
    This may well come under the category of "costs more to fix than it's worth".

    With the old sub system that may be so... but they had over a year to come up with the nonsense of getting rid of Gold Subs. A portion of that time could have been spent coming up with a newer version of the Gold sub system that works better.

    It's a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    Post edited by themightyzenith on
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    > @themightyzenith said:
    > pantagruel01 wrote: »
    >
    > raighn wrote: »
    >
    > Regardless however... I see zero reason to remove the subscription option...
    >
    >
    >
    > "It worked horribly, but I see no reason to remove it"...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The model was fine, just needed the changing from silver to gold and vice-versa system fixed/improved.

    Exactly. The model is fine. The system needed work. And what is most annoying about it is that the system worked perfectly fine until they decided to change it from giving each character a personal retrain token (limit 1) every time your subscription status changed to only giving you a few account wide tokens every time you resubscribed.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • Some what of an 'other' vote.

    Keep the sub system (which I know they won't, no matter what) so must add the amendment .. until they can properly fix their model .. which sadly, I don't think they will

    This "FTP game, that is designed for a sub to fully play/access, but we don't have subs" is just broken joke.
    Subs without some great benefit (other than FF ransom costs) are meh (and terrible with new gun puppy to head model)
    LTS while it maths out good with current zen costs is too much given other buy to play models.


  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,387 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    My issue was this, I started when this game went F2P, I never had a problem with ATs, truth be told I didn't know what I was missing with FF, but I happily played the game for months buying what I wanted when I wanted to play it. Then I realized that buying a LTS would save me money in the long run. I love making characters, I don't really care for the content of the game, but I love designing and building toons. As a result I have a lot of characters, I'm more than 3 times over the cap, and if these proposed changes ever get implemented the reason I play and occasionally put money into the game goes away.

    I want the game to be strong, I'm always up to help sliver players, I would like there to be a strong gold base who are constantly putting money into the game, but if my ability to make characters gets removed then the game strictly turns into a super hero based chat room and I have no reason to participate in events anymore. Some people in my situation would probably just go away. I have a lot of friends who like to hang out and RP and that would keep me around, but without the ability to make new characters I don't need to buy new costume sets, grind events for costume unlocks, or even visit the AH to get stuff other people are selling from lockboxes.

    The average gold player pays more money per month then I do, I have no illusions about how valuable I am to the bottom line, but if people like me go away you lose participation in events, the in game economy stagnates, and the in game store gets a bit less use. I don't know the solution to PWI's problems but I hope they can figure things out while letting me play the game I love.
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    No
    No, I agree with subs going away forever, but I don't think the current solution is the best one
    • Already been said to death, but there really needs to be a silver-to-gold slot conversion service in the shop.
    • Current gold slots should remain gold slots. No strings attached. Forcing players to cough up $200-$300 instead of the typical sub fee to get their characters back is borderline ransom territory and terrible PR to boot. The most important thing in all this is to not interrupt how players are able to enjoy the game or they might just start looking elsewhere.
    • The price of freeform slots should go down significantly. With the sub option gone, this is the only current non-LTS option for freeform gameplay and $50 is a lot. Lowering it to something like $20-$25 permanently might make it a much more appealing option that's far more likely to be a repeat purchase for the non-LTS crowd.
    • LTS should still acquire free character slots for reaching level 40 on an existing character, although capping these free slots off at the currently-proposed amount (59 was it?) is fine. 57 slots as part of the LTS package is still a fantastic deal, However...
    • Unless there's some behind-the-scenes reason for having a character slot cap, there shouldn't be one for purchased slots. Turning away customers with their credit cards out and ready to swipe makes absolutely no sense from a business standpoint. What if I want to buy 200 or so slots over time? How much money is being turned away here?
    • The account-wide costume slot unlock really should remain somehow. If the cost has to go up, the number of slots it awards goes down, or it's only able to expand slots up to a certain limit, that's fine. Limiting unlock options to a per-character basis is a slap in the face to anyone who alts heavily, and alting is arguably a pretty big part of the game for many folks.
    ​​
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • mokuhomokuho Posts: 1 New User
    So is there no point in me setting up a subscription? I recently started playing CO this week.. only just read about these changes before I set one up..
  • nevyn34nevyn34 Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    No
    mokuho wrote: »
    So is there no point in me setting up a subscription? I recently started playing CO this week.. only just read about these changes before I set one up..

    Not unless you're willing to fork over the money for the lifetime. You're much better off buying Zen and unlocking account options and a few Freeform slots (on sale preferably) than subscribing anyway.

    As for the changes, Aesica hit the nail right on the head.
    Current Roster:

    Frostbiter (Freeform Ice DPS)
    Battle Hazard (Unleashed AT)
    Glacial Tyrant (Glacier AT)
    Silver Mantra ( Freeform Single Blade DPS)
    Magnetros (Freeform Heavy Weapons/Lightning Hybrid)
  • berucrossberucross Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Yes!
    Yes. Keep sub for people who want to AND just add the new premium pack for silver that dont want to sub so that people who bought FF char can change the color of the powers (and other minor stuffs). Would like this ages ago. Dont change, nerf, whatever other stuffs. People usually get angry when you mess with their pockets...

    OBS: could very well decrease FF cost and add one for free in premium pack. So like this new players would test out the game with premium pack then, "oh i like this game" then sub. The beauty of CO is the freedom to make your char. We need more players and not make the few ones we have leave.

    OBS2: for gold who want to go silver but dont want to lose the ff, could get a special FF slot with a substantial discount. Others ff locked (not playable) or something like you can play but cant change/respec anymore. Well, im not really sure about gold players anyways since im just a casual (play a little and goes away, but always come back!) silver player with a few FFs since 2013.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    No
    mokuho wrote: »
    So is there no point in me setting up a subscription? I recently started playing CO this week.. only just read about these changes before I set one up..

    It's unclear right now. Nobody knows what they're going to do with subs anymore, we only have theories. I would hold on to your money until we hear more. Start farming questionite as much as you can in the meantime.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    No
    mokuho wrote: »
    So is there no point in me setting up a subscription? I recently started playing CO this week.. only just read about these changes before I set one up..
    It probably won't do any harm (worst case, it looks like it will cover a premium pack, and if you only want to try it out for a month, well, it still works), but it's probably not going to be the model going forward. We just don't know what the model will be.
  • isamukunoisamukuno Posts: 2 Arc User
    The real problem with this, as many have stated, is the exreme limiting of FF accessibility. You either pay $300 for the LTS (after the current sale ends) or $50 for a single FF slot. This Premium Pack really should include at least one FF slot or conversion, and I can't imagine why they would alienate their base like this now, when another competitor (City of Titans) is supposed to launch by the end of the year. Everyone they lose over the next 6 months because of this will likely go to CoT, rather than ever return to CO and even some active players will likely jump ship when it launches. This just seems like suicide at this point.
    I can't really say "yes" or "no" because the concept itself isn't bad, but the execution is horrible.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    Yes!
    Changing it up this late into the games life-cycle is dumb.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    I don't think they're excessively concerned about CoT, because that's slipped more launch dates than Virgin Galaxy.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • ilyensilyens Posts: 38 Arc User
    Yes and Fix Lifetime Subcription with me being able to continue gaining new Character Slots
    This option would be the best, especially because of the "FIX" part. If they could fix the bug where players can subscribe for free, perhaps the system wouldn't change.

    Fix !
  • slumpywpgslumpywpg Posts: 129 Arc User
    Yes!
    jonsills wrote: »
    I don't think they're excessively concerned about CoT, because that's slipped more launch dates than Virgin Galaxy.

    It also looks terrible.
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