Black Panther

catstarsto

Is it worth seeing? I know he was awesome in Civil War, but can a supporting role have a good solo movie or is he too much like Black Widow, Falcon and Hawkeye, just a support character?


DVDs are expensive, I have yet to even see Wonder Woman because im too cheap to pay $35 for it!

ealford1985

He was nothing like Black Widow...that would be like saying is Spider-Man is a supporting character.

The question you need to ask yourself...do you want more of Black Panther after Civil War, if the answer is yes then go see the movie.

catstarsto

ealford1985 said:

He was nothing like Black Widow...that would be like saying is Spider-Man is a supporting character.



The question you need to ask yourself...do you want more of Black Panther after Civil War, if the answer is yes then go see the movie.

Spider-man WAS a supporting character in civil war, and that role fit him well. I didnt like the spiderman movies. I regretted watching them like the new superman ones, its why I i never watched Superman V Batman, Christopher reeves was the only superman IMO worth watching, Michael Keaton was the best batman. But Captain American and Ironman seemed like the only ones worth a solo movie....Mind you I havent seen the Thor ones yet to give a fair word on that characters solo. Dr Strange i fell asleep watching but it was on netflix so no loss there. But yeah, I liked what they did with Panther, they made him cool like they did falcon and Black widow...but i wanted some critiques before I spent money on it.

beezeeze

Spider-Man: Homecoming was a wonderful movie and if you like the character you should give it a chance. The Black Panther movie was also great, it stands well on its own legs and although it seems barely connected to the rest of what is going on in the MCU I have a feeling it will very much be a big part of the overall story moving forward and is for sure worth a watch.



Avengers such as Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Falcon while sometimes appearing in their own short lived comic book series from time to time they are more likely than not to be characters featured in team books or team-ups with other more popular characters. While characters like Spider-Man, Black Panther, (and to a somewhat lesser degree) Dr. Strange can and have held top billing as main characters in their own comics for hundreds of issues, and that is why these characters get their own movies. Then there is Ant-Man...he got his own movie because who the hell knows but it was actually really fun and lots of people enjoyed it.

Yeah I'll admit it I haven't seen an MCU movie that I have not liked so far, even the ones considered less good I still enjoy.

flyingfinn

Is any superhero movie worth seeing for?
I've liked them all, even the "bad ones" and reruns of Origin Stories...
They're good entertainment.
I do believe that Black Widow, Falcon or Hawkeye won't be getting their own MCU movies, sadly. They are still minor characters in Marvel universe....
And he's a friggin king. And avatar of a huge cat god.

And dude, Blurays are the current thing. DVDs are like C-cassetters of disc technology now....

pwestolemyname

It is very good. Most MCU fans consider it one of the best of the franchise. If you are not a super-hero movie fan, you probably won't be interested. But, if you do like super-hero movies, you will almost certainly love it.

My only quibble is that some of the fight scenes seemed a bit cheaped-out. They used a lot of camera-shake, shadow, and weird angles so you could not see as much of the action, therefore they did not need all the mega CGI. The combat sequences in Civil War were, by and large, better. Not to say the ones in BP were bad, not by any stretch, but some of them could have been better.

royalflvsh

Black Panther was the hero of Civil War. His movie is worth seeing too.

catstarsto

I have to admit some of my guild mates are right, I am bias on the matter of cats, while Captain America is my favorite Avenger, cat heroes will generally get special place at the table...but not the Haley Berry catwoman, as if the batman returns cat woman wasnt bad enough, she made me abandon buying the comic even.

Side note on Captain Americas part in Civil War, I was by Caps side concerning the UN thing, the Avengers didnt need to be a private army for political interests...but i hated what they did between him, bucky and ironman!! I wasnt sure what to think about it, Captain America is usually the one to follow, but like royalfish said...the cat had the right idea this time around. Hence some of my frustration in that last Thread i made on it.

I gave it a lot of thought, I have enough to get one dvd (because my pc doesnt play bluray...no tv/player) IM getting Black Panther ^_^ ...well, when its released in about 3 months >.>

https://www.ondvdreleases.com/3215-black-panther-release-dates.html

jonsills

Shouldn't have let the Halle Berry movie stop you. Her character was unrelated to Selina Kyle in any way, shape, or form - not even the same name. John Rogers has some funny Twitter posts about his part in making the movie (he was in about the third or so teams of writers brought in - they eventually had a total of six teams - and by the time he got there, the filmmakers couldn't even get the rights to Selina any more).

Selina Kyle is extraordinarily gifted - but her name and costume come from her personal interests, not because she's the avatar of some goddess of house-cats or something. (Also, her costume is far, far better than that stripperiffic thing with the ludicrous headgear that Berry was forced to don.)

draogn

You could rent the movies from Amazon. As for the question, yes Black Panther is worth seeing.

I'm looking forward to seeing Shadowcats movie as well.

catstarsto

jonsills said:

Shouldn't have let the Halle Berry movie stop you. Her character was unrelated to Selina Kyle in any way, shape, or form - not even the same name. John Rogers has some funny Twitter posts about his part in making the movie (he was in about the third or so teams of writers brought in - they eventually had a total of six teams - and by the time he got there, the filmmakers couldn't even get the rights to Selina any more).

Selina Kyle is extraordinarily gifted - but her name and costume come from her personal interests, not because she's the avatar of some goddess of house-cats or something. (Also, her costume is far, far better than that stripperiffic thing with the ludicrous headgear that Berry was forced to don.)

Fair enough, Catwoman was fun to read about because not only was she a cat theme, she had cats everywhere at home, and was a successful "Rogue Class" my favorite to play in D20 games. But the catwoman series I read was this era...

and couldnt be improved upon, just like Michael Keaton and Christopher Reeves in their roles.

Haley Berry was better as Storm, and now that the focus is on Africa, maybe we will get a SHadowking movie, maybe with Panther, Storm and Professor X.

draogn said:

You could rent the movies from Amazon. As for the question, yes Black Panther is worth seeing.

I'm looking forward to seeing Shadowcats movie as well.

They require a credit card which I refuse to own, and im looking to add to my movie library.

...Kitty Pride is getting a movie? :O Hmm, Im not sure, yeah she was great in the Exalibur comic...which got a bit wacky at times, but she would seem more of a supporting role.

screwthisprocess

BP is no supporting character but ppl seem to like it. The movie is pulling historic numbers. I think top ten of all time. Most likely will move higher. It is like number 9 now or something.

He was cool in Marvel Heroes Omega. Crazy how the trash that is DCUO is still tanking, but above average games shutdown. Super Hero gamers would be better served if that game was still around. Oh well.

jaazaniah1

I thought it was about a B+ film, a perfectly fine superhero movie, but not deserving all the euphoria. For me it is about on the level of Antman and Dr. Strange. Above Iron Man 2-3 but below Winter Soldier and the 2 Avengers films. But, that's just my personal taste.

Killmonger's plan to start a race war using Wakanda tech seemed far-fetched, even for a superhero film. No one bothered to ask about what they would do when the Avengers and so on intervened. There were also some parts that were standard tropes. BP asks for help from his prior rival Mbaku who turns him down. Was anyone actually surprised when Mbaku and his army showed up to save the day?

It was visually arresting at times, but the cliff-backdrop in the duel scenes felt artificial, like I was in Animal Kingdom at Disney World.

catstarsto

jaazaniah1 said:

I thought it was about a B+ film, a perfectly fine superhero movie, but not deserving all the euphoria. For me it is about on the level of Antman and Dr. Strange. Above Iron Man 2-3 but below Winter Soldier and the 2 Avengers films. But, that's just my personal taste.

Killmonger's plan to start a race war using Wakanda tech seemed far-fetched, even for a superhero film. No one bothered to ask about what they would do when the Avengers and so on intervened. There were also some parts that were standard tropes. BP asks for help from his prior rival Mbaku who turns him down. Was anyone actually surprised when Mbaku and his army showed up to save the day?

It was visually arresting at times, but the cliff-backdrop in the duel scenes felt artificial, like I was in Animal Kingdom at Disney World.

"You!"

nepht

One of the few Marvel movies that is just like the old comics. Panther is basically Batman only richer with better tech. Its a good movie.

jaazaniah1

Since many of his powers actually come from a potion I found him more an African Captain America (i.e. super soldier) than a Batman.

markhawkman

The actual powers he gets from that concoction aren't very potent though.

bulgarex

markhawkman said:

The actual powers he gets from that concoction aren't very potent though.

In the movie he threw a rhinoceros off its feet. How much more potent do you want?

nepht

jaazaniah1 said:

Since many of his powers actually come from a potion I found him more an African Captain America (i.e. super soldier) than a Batman.

That is why I said better tech. That includes Wakanda brand energy drinks.

jonsills

nepht said:

jaazaniah1 said:

Since many of his powers actually come from a potion I found him more an African Captain America (i.e. super soldier) than a Batman.

That is why I said better tech. That includes Wakanda brand energy drinks.

"Red Elephant - it gives you streeeeeeeeength!"

spinnytop

Barely even a super hero movie.

screwthisprocess

They said it passed the Titanic today, whoa!!! That joke the Injustice producer was playing seems like a good idea now. There is no way Marvel lets anyone use BP now tho, he is like the Golden child of super heroes. The golden child of cinema. It is insane how this guy went from a a relative unused hero, to the most popular superhero of all time.

Hey PW, BP inspired gear? Who knows, it could bring in more subs. Even African clothing is selling out like hot cakes. BP costume, African costumes, with a panther & lion side-kick. Why not?

bulgarex

IMO it would be extremely premature to call Black Panther "the most popular superhero of all time" on the strength of box office from just one movie. He's a great character, and right now his movie is all the rage; but that was true of Wonder Woman, and even Deadpool, when their movies came out.

spinnytop

We all know why Black Panther got such a big hullabaloo despite being a mediocre movie.

catstarsto

spinnytop said:

We all know why Black Panther got such a big hullabaloo despite being a mediocre movie.

Because hes a cat!

screwthisprocess

bulgarex said:

IMO it would be extremely premature to call Black Panther "the most popular superhero of all time" on the strength of box office from just one movie. He's a great character, and right now his movie is all the rage; but that was true of Wonder Woman, and even Deadpool, when their movies came out.

Not premature, If you are the highest grossing superhero movie, you are the most popular superhero.

spinnytop said:

We all know why Black Panther got such a big hullabaloo despite being a mediocre movie.

And we all know why you think it is medicore

Yeah yeah yeah, because he is Black. Blacks are the most imitated group, everyone wants big lips, big asses, to rap, dance, play the guitar like Hendrix, be like MJ, be Like Ali, etc. Nothing in mainstream culture does not have African or Black influence, especially music. Even overseas with Kpop.

We have a dab emote in CO for crying out loud. Along with many other dances.

It may be mediocre to you, but the majority like it. It receives fairly high ratings. The race card should have worked against it being a minority film, but a majority went to see it. It was good enough to be the number 3 domestically grossed film of all time despite being a minority film.

bulgarex

screwthisprocess said:

Not premature, If you are the highest grossing superhero movie, you are the most popular superhero.

Of the moment, yes. But of all time? Right now Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson is the highest-grossing Hollywood actor. Is he the most popular actor of all time?

screwthisprocess

bulgarex said:

screwthisprocess said:

Not premature, If you are the highest grossing superhero movie, you are the most popular superhero.

Of the moment, yes. But of all time? Right now Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson is the highest-grossing Hollywood actor. Is he the most popular actor of all time?

Yeah. Rumors of a presidential run? The Rock is very famous and may be the most popular actor of all time. Rock is everywhere. I cannot argue with you there. Popularity is directly tied into grossing when you think about it. Many bodies know you, and want to see you. Bron sold out away games that usually do not seell out because they knew the big three where coming to town.

jonsills

Your view of "all time" is just a tad limited, Screw. Based on such matters as market penetration, brand awareness, and longevity of story, I'd have to say the most popular superhero of all time would have to be Gilgamesh - his stories have been told since before the invention of writing, and have influenced everything from Superman to Shakespeare to the Bible (the tale of Noah was first told as the tale of Atrahasis of Shuruppak, in Tablet III of the Atra-Hasis, the oldest known written creation myth of Babylonia, then retold as the tale of Utnapishtim in Tablet IX of the Epic of Gilgamesh).

As for actors, the most popular of all time? There are quite a few contenders for the role; Clara Bow, the "It Girl" of 1927, comes to mind, as does Audie Murphy, multiply-decorated war hero of WWII and actor. For my money, though, I'd have to say the actor with the highest popularity of all time would probably be Rin Tin Tin, a dog rescued from a WWI battlefield who went on to make a total of 27 silent films. His movies were quite popular at the box office.

spinnytop

screwthisprocess said:

It may be mediocre to you, but the majority like it.

Perish the thought that I should not follow the majority ~3~/

bulgarex

You absolutely have the right to your opinion of the movie. As others have the right to theirs. Contrary to how many contemporary pundits and politicians like to frame it, opinions aren't facts.

bluhman

I appreciate this movie. Its narrative feels like it moves faster than most 'first movie about a marvel superhero' movies go, and the themes in it are way less typical marvel as well. A massive amount of the movie is eye candy of course, that's par. Overall the character development in this movie is way better rounded in this one than it is in most superhero films, which usually focus almost entirely on the title character, and that's a pretty refreshing change really.

Anyways the themes it has about international policy are dandy and seem kind of relevant. Finally in restrospect I am annoyed by the fact that the entire movie's plot is caused by one stupid thing a character forgot to do, and the main character even calls this out. But aside from that it's a fine movie. I give it a 5/7

bulgarex

I'm not sure what a character "forgot" that led to the whole plot of the movie. If you mean T'Chaka leaving young Killmonger behind after killing his father, that was a deliberate choice by T'Chaka.

jennymachx

It was okay. While I didn't think it was a bad movie, I didn't find it particularly as great as I've seen other people make it out to be.

I don't know if it's to do with some sort of fatigue from watching so many Marvel movies by now, but I wasn't wow'ed by the movie's representation of Wakanda and all its technological advances that were being shown off. Mind you, I've read quite a number of Black Panther comics years back and I've always liked the idea of Wakanda. Apart from an example of African cultural art being integrated into some of the tech stuff now and then (like how their jets look like tribal masks), all I could think of was "Eh, I've seen this already in MCU.". There was very little I found unique in Wakandan technology that set it apart from stuff found in the earlier movies. But overall it's done okay and I didn't find it that bothersome.

I didn't find myself warming up to T'Challa. In the comics T'Challa isn't just some prince of a rich hi-tech kingdom. He is a genius. He is considered one of the most intelligent superheroes around, next to the likes of Reed Richards and Tony Stark. He's also a scientist and inventor. He has a PhD. I would have rather seen his comic strengths being showcased on-screen, because I don't see his character standing out much other than being a noble prince with hi-tech toys.

Then again I do like his sassy tech-wiz younger sister who builds him all his toys, and her interactions with her older brother. She is one of the two characters I think are the strongest points of the film, the other being Killmonger. He's probably the most compelling villain I've seen in any marvel movie yet, Baron Zemo from Civil War coming in second.

All in all, I think it's a decent addition to the MCU. I think my only major gripe with the movie is the use of the "WHAT ARE THOSE?!" meme for a comedic scene. I know the purpose of that was to show how Shuri is so internet hip and and bored with old stuffy tradition, but these things eventually age badly as time goes by. Just refrain from doing that Marvel.

Also I think The Hobbit has ruined Martin Freeman for me. I couldn't stop seeing him as a human-sized Bilbo Baggins. I don't know if it's just me but I've seen hints of his Bilbo mannerisms being shown in this film.

screwthisprocess

BP is a touchy subject I see.

themightyzenith

screwthisprocess said:

BP is a touchy subject I see.

Based on what comments in this thread?

I can see differing views on the film, but I don't really see any touchy comments apart from some that you posted..... maybe those are the ones you mean?

spinnytop

I guess for some people any time somebody disagrees about something it means they're "touchy"?

ealford1985

I usually prefer bad touches

jaazaniah1

I felt much the same about BP in the film. Other than his father dying and him becoming the BP there was no real elaboration of his early life. I.e. how was he groomed to be his father's successor? Was there rigorous physical conditioning? Was he trained in martial arts? What sort of education did he have? Was there a spiritual aspect? He seemed much like a prince who just drank a serum to get some enhanced physical abilities and was given a super suit by his brighter sister. Once he was stripped of those it was no wonder that Killmonger totally dominated him in their first encounter. T'Challa in Aveneger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes seemed a better representation of the comic book character.

I am guessing that part of why they didn't go into his education/genius level is to give his sister some unique capabilities. BP seems more of a family oriented team in the movie. He has his sister's gadgets, the flower carefully tended by the palace official, his general (who often seems a more gifted fighter than BP), etc. If T'Challa was totally self sufficient there wouldn't be the family interactions, which is one element (besides royalty, but that's not so very different from Stark's family) that makes the film different from others in the MCU.

jennymachx said:

I didn't find myself warming up to T'Challa. In the comics T'Challa isn't just some prince of a rich hi-tech kingdom. He is a genius. He is considered one of the most intelligent superheroes around, next to the likes of Reed Richards and Tony Stark. He's also a scientist and inventor. He has a PhD. I would have rather seen his comic strengths being showcased on-screen, because I don't see his character standing out much other than being a noble prince with hi-tech toys.

Then again I do like his sassy tech-wiz younger sister who builds him all his toys, and her interactions with her older brother. She is one of the two characters I think are the strongest points of the film, the other being Killmonger. He's probably the most compelling villain I've seen in any marvel movie yet, Baron Zemo from Civil War coming in second.

theravenforce

I really enjoyed the story, songs/tracks and general movie. For me personally, it's up there with/above Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

I am very much looking forward to Infinity War now that I've watched both Spiderman Homecoming and Thor Ragnarock.

jaazaniah1

Re: Infinity War. I am curious how large a role Wong will have. Asians are woefully underrepresented as heroes in MCU. He is the closest there is atm.

bulgarex

jaazaniah1 said:

I felt much the same about BP in the film. Other than his father dying and him becoming the BP there was no real elaboration of his early life. I.e. how was he groomed to be his father's successor? Was there rigorous physical conditioning? Was he trained in martial arts? What sort of education did he have? Was there a spiritual aspect? He seemed much like a prince who just drank a serum to get some enhanced physical abilities and was given a super suit by his brighter sister. Once he was stripped of those it was no wonder that Killmonger totally dominated him in their first encounter. T'Challa in Aveneger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes seemed a better representation of the comic book character.

I am guessing that part of why they didn't go into his education/genius level is to give his sister some unique capabilities. BP seems more of a family oriented team in the movie. He has his sister's gadgets, the flower carefully tended by the palace official, his general (who often seems a more gifted fighter than BP), etc. If T'Challa was totally self sufficient there wouldn't be the family interactions, which is one element (besides royalty, but that's not so very different from Stark's family) that makes the film different from others in the MCU.

Don't underestimate T'Challa's fighting prowess. His victory over M'Baku in the first challenge displayed impressive skill and stamina against another experienced fighter who was clearly stronger than him. But in Killmonger he faced a man who, according to the background revealed for him, had spent his whole adult life as a professional killer, trained by some of the best in the business, and rising to the top of his field. IMHO rather than making T'Challa look weak, Killmonger's victory demonstrated how formidable he was. What matters is that in their final confrontation, when both had equal physical power and weaponry, Black Panther used his wits to open a chink in his rival's vibranium armor, and finished him with "a helluva move."

As for the rest, I agree with you.

jonsills

Having finally seen the movie, I have to say, Erik had a point. I don't think his idea of violent revolution was the right way to go about fixing things, but Wakanda had been rather greedy about hoarding their technology and resources.

Also, the true villain of the piece, in my opinion, was T'Chaka, T'Challa's father. He could have short-circuited the entire plot by taking young Erik (or whatever his Wakandan name was) along with them, explaining that Uncle T'Chaka was very sorry about having to kill Daddy to stop him, but was going to make it right from then on. Instead, he "chose not to acknowledge" that part, and just abandoned a kid with a dead father in Oakland, of all places - and thus begins the story of the Killmonger.

bulgarex

I wouldn't call T'Chaka a villain as such. His motive was to protect his people. But his decision was the deeply-flawed seed of Wakanda's original sin, hiding and hoarding what they really are from the rest of the world. And Killmonger was the fruit that grew from it.

nepht

spinnytop said:

screwthisprocess said:

It may be mediocre to you, but the majority like it.

Perish the thought that I should not follow the majority ~3~/

I liked the movie but now that its brought up a lot of MCU fans have been banging on how this movie is some sort of social breakthrough completely ignoring the fact that you had movies like MIB and Blade in cinemas over 20 years ago.

theravenforce

There's nothing wrong with people feeling that way, because when you look at what they are saying...that it's the first time that there's an all black (mostly) cast where those who are African American actors are not portrayed in a negative light (coming from 'bad' backgrounds, being slaves or having some connection to drugs) but in a positive way (coming from a place of power, royalty and technological advancement)...when you look at it through that lens...I can see what is being said and why for some it feels so great.

I don't think it devalues movies with an African American lead character like the MIB or Blade, but it certainly highlights that there is still some way to go in the eyes of some in society which can't really be ignored.

I watched and reviewed a lot of reactions to Black Panther and I didn't think it was going to be as emotional or as strong for some people as it actually turned out to be.

I think it's important to have role models for every single person regardless of ethnicity or race etc and Black Panther has widened that in a positive light it seems.

Not everyone is going to see it, just like how I've met some other women who were actually inspired to go to law school and get into that profession because of Legally Blonde (not even joking).

theravenforce

jonsills said:

Having finally seen the movie, I have to say, Erik had a point. I don't think his idea of violent revolution was the right way to go about fixing things, but Wakanda had been rather greedy about hoarding their technology and resources.

Mhm, I think that's why Killmonger was such a good villain, you could completely GET where he was coming from. I was a little broken that he never got to go to Wakanda and grow up as a kid and instead had to infiltrate, kill etc to get there just because of the rules his dad broke and T'Chaka's admittedly cold response.

I was kinda sad that he was just allowed to die, but I think T'Challa also understood how badly things had gone wrong as he was forging his own path to be a king and not just follow tradition. And really...there's not much future for someone like Killmonger in his perpetually angry and vengeful mind set.

MBJ was fine AF in that movie...

--

I do get why they closed themselves off though, you can imagine how messed up things would be if the whole world had had access to Vibranium back then, you only need to look in the history books to see how places with valuable resources are treated and how it brings constant conflict.

On a lighter note, I had no idea Chadwick was 41!!

theravenforce

jaazaniah1 said:

Re: Infinity War. I am curious how large a role Wong will have. Asians are woefully underrepresented as heroes in MCU. He is the closest there is atm.

That is true, I've wondered how certain people fit into the whole thing and I just hope Wong doesn't die...

The finality in everyone's interviews so far makes me scaaaared

bulgarex

Over the past decade Marvel`s Captain Marvel has become something of the standard bearer for the company`s roster of strong female heroes. Actually that`s the second time she`s been that, since her previous incarnation as Ms. Marvel during the 1970s. The character actually has quite a legacy, Carol Danvers having been introduced in 1968 as a supporting character to the late Marv-Vell in his series; starring in her own title as Ms. Marvel; interacting with the X-Men in their ``cosmic`` adventures as Binary; serving with the Avengers in the guise of Warbird, before taking on her current identity.

As for the public reception of the movie Black Panther, while there have certainly been black protagonists in movies for quite some time, in almost all cases they`ve been defined in relation to the dominant ``White`` culture of the Western world -- either in opposition to it, or by co-opting its conventions and excelling at them, thus becoming ``as good as`` white people. To the Wakandans the expectations of white Western society are irrelevant. They were never conquered, never colonized by Europeans. Their unique civilization is firmly based in their traditional culture, but they`re also the most technologically advanced nation on Earth. Black Panther and Wakanda are African root and branch, and they`re great, and they owe nothing to the white man to achieve that greatness. You can`t overestimate how that resonates with black audiences around the world.

nepht

I accidentally deleted my post while editing spelling mistakes somehow. So here is the short version Marvel handles Black Panther well and Captain Marvel badly.

bulgarex

Well, so far we haven`t seen much advertising for Captain Marvel. The movie is still a long way out. IMO it`s a little premature to characterize their advertising one way or the other.