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Fixing tank scoring at cosmics

pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
edited November 2017 in Suggestions Box
The way tank scoring works at cosmics has two significant flaws:
  1. It doesn't really give scores to match contribution.
  2. It actually rewards being bad, as your score is higher if you take more damage.
The basic problem is that scoring is for damage taken after mitigation, which is wrong. They way it really should work is:
  1. Tank gets bonus score at a flat rate, probably on the order of 3k/sec for targets with aggro, half that for side tanks.
  2. Taking damage has a negative score multiplier -- for everyone (a good tank generally does damage exceeding what they do, a bad tank does less; dps are rewarded for avoiding taking damage). Baby tank can be expected to be net negative by a fair amount.
Unfortunately, as far as I know we don't have status effects that just grant score (no other effects), but what could be done is a damage effect of a special type that receives a high score multiplier (100x or so). Because cosmics can be very erratic about actually using their attacks , I'd go with a separate attack that's high priority, zero activation time, minimal or zero fx, and applies a DoT.
My guide to Teleios Ascendant
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained

Comments

  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    Interesting point: When I have a baby tank at dino, I intentionally take some hits to raise my score, just in case.
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  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    Who did good work should receive a good reward. o3o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnZ-lqcsPeE

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    gradii said:

    Right now the scoring does not count all damage taken, only damage after mitigation. the score needs to take mitigation into account.​​

    Giving damage taken a negative multiplier does that.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    Total damage is tricky, since then everyone will record very, very high scores. Pre-mitigation damage from the AoEs alone would boost every participant over 100 K within the first health bar, without doing anything else.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    roughbearmattach said:

    Total damage is tricky, since then everyone will record very, very high scores.

    The key problem is that being hit by attacks is not actually a useful thing; if you can figure out how to tank Teleiosaurus without being hit, Kaizerin will probably nerf whatever you use, but you're still being a perfectly useful tank. What's useful is maintaining aggro so the dino doesn't eat the DPS. Thus, the proper way to score a tank is to give positive value for the useful thing you're doing (maintaining aggro) and negative value for taking damage (which puts load on the healer).
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    The idea is that so long as you are taking direct damage, you either have aggro or are in proper position to soak tank, and hence are performing a useful tanking function. Making the healer have to heal you isn't a bad thing, it's an expected thing, it's been a part of tanking since tanking existed so it wouldn't make sense to punish the tank for something that is an expected part of their role.

    I don't really want soak tanks facing the possibility of not getting credit. We already have over-geared tanks making the soak tank role obsolete, I don't really want to pile on the possibility of no rewards on top of that.

    If you were taking direct damage and the fight succeeded, you did your duty as a tank. The only change I would make is to up the contribution of certain boss's attacks to ensure that quick fights don't leave tanks without enough score for rewards ( though some of the upcoming changes to cosmics might make this a non-issue ).

    Tanks aren't competing with anyone on the scoreboard, so their only real concern is if they hit the threshold.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    The idea is that so long as you are taking direct damage, you either have aggro or are in proper position to soak tank, and hence are performing a useful tanking function.

    Sure, but the actually taking damage part is an unwanted side effect. What you want to do is prevent the dino from eating the dps.
    spinnytop said:

    I don't really want soak tanks facing the possibility of not getting credit. We already have over-geared tanks making the soak tank role obsolete, I don't really want to pile on the possibility of no rewards on top of that.

    Just have the special attack that delivers credit have the same radius and target cap as its primary splittable attack.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    gradii said:

    But how does the system KNOW if you're a tank? I didn't think CO's engine could do that.​​

    The system knows what character currently has the critter's aggro, so all you need is a power the critter can use that will target that character and give them points. Sure, a dps who steals aggro might get a tic of credit, but then he gets eaten and loses a bunch of points so it's not really a problem.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    It just seems like an over-complication of the system to get the same result. Like, what's the benefit of all this extra stuff? The tank's score is a different number?
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
    My super cool CC build and how to use it.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    It just seems like an over-complication of the system to get the same result. Like, what's the benefit of all this extra stuff? The tank's score is a different number?

    Other than more accurately reflecting contribution, baby tanks at Teleiosaurus not getting credit is a bit of a problem.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    Occasionally a soak tank gets too low a score, too, but baby tank score is the one that has stung me. I will switch from my current toon to my tank to help a dino run--I'm not getting GCR on the toon I want gear for, but I want to be helpful.
    If that run is very fast, then my desire to be helpful kinda drains away.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    pantagruel01 said:

    Other than more accurately reflecting contribution, baby tanks at Teleiosaurus not getting credit is a bit of a problem.

    Does tank contribution need to be more accurately reflected on the scoreboard? If both of them held aggro throughout the fight and didn't die due to too many missed blocks, then what else is there to gain from the number on the scoreboard? They're fulfilling a critical role, their contribution can never be questioned. Hell, they should just be at the top of the scoreboard by default since the fight can't happen without them.
    roughbearmattach said:

    Occasionally a soak tank gets too low a score, too, but baby tank score is the one that has stung me. I will switch from my current toon to my tank to help a dino run--I'm not getting GCR on the toon I want gear for, but I want to be helpful.
    If that run is very fast, then my desire to be helpful kinda drains away.

    If the problem being solved is "sometimes tanks don't get credit when the fight goes by too fast" then the simple solution is: increase the amount of score contribution that both dinos direct damage gives. You don't need to completely overhaul the system, just tweak the numbers to reflect the reality of what happens when the content is run.
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
    My super cool CC build and how to use it.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Well, that's a large part of why people think it'd be good to calculate damage taken afs the base and not the total after damage mitigation.
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  • thistleswift1thistleswift1 Posts: 219 Arc User
    why not suggest getting points for both damage actually taken AND damage mitigated, with damage mitigated having a higher value if you have aggro? it may be a lot of number crunching, but then, computers are good at number crunching, no? also it seems to me that this would be more along the lines of a tweak than an overhaul ... ... i don't know the mechanics involved or the programming issues enough to know if this is feasible, just my two cents worth ... >^___^<
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