Sigils Swords and other Summoned Stuff

spinnytop

So I finally cooked up a "pet build" that I actually have fun playing. Here's me testing it out in QWZ.
https://youtu.be/T8nfZh0eU6E
As it turns out these powers are pretty durn strong, and it's fun keeping track of all the cooldowns and positioning. Still not sold on Conviction as my heal so I'll be experimenting with that slot a bit, but the rest of the build is pretty solid. It also does pretty decent dps.


At cosmics I was placing pretty high on the list, 4th and 5th several times - not bad for a dpser in support role AND I'm giving people AoED \o/

Advantages:
- Strong burst damage from Sigils of Arcane Ruins, great opener
- Can dps things while blocking
- Buffs everyone else to do more damage too
- Looks really cool

Disadvantages:
- You have to be in melee range to do full dps on something. Puts you in the melee pile on cosmics and can be tricky on some TA bosses.
- You have to get close to do your opener, more risky than opening with a nuke from long range
- 7 cooldowns to keep track of
- Also have to keep track of things that will smash your pets so you can time resummoning around them

riverocean

I absolutely AOED builds! But do my eyes deceive me? How are you getting two sets of sword pets? Great video!

spinnytop

They made a copy of Warlock's Blades for fire called Pyromancer's Blades. I took them both ^_^

flowcyto

I had a similar build that used sigils and both blade pets, along w/ EB Frenzy. Coulda been better dps w/ a better filler attack for ST dps, but I wanted to have 3 sets of whirling blades for flair (plus you can get the shield adv on EBF, or just use EotS). It was fun, and better than I thought it'd be. Granted, its predicated on sigils not being destroyed all the time, but that goes w/o saying..

beerbane

I saw Hyrda in there too - what else is that build packing? Looks pretty active and fun!

riverocean

hmm... you could do an electric version of that could include Storm Sigils, Electric Siphon, and Ball Lightning. Add in whatever extra pets you want... block and do damage.. profit.

beerbane

Obviously need some Electricity-based floating swords added to the game...

spinnytop

beerbane said:

I saw Hyrda in there too - what else is that build packing? Looks pretty active and fun!

Soul Beam
Hex of Suffering
Sigils of the Storm
Sigils of Destruction
Sigils of Arcane Runes
Warlock's Blades
Pyromancer's Blades
Hydra
Conviction
Eldritch Shield
Spellcaster
Conjuring
Aura of Ebon Destruction

beerbane

spinnytop said:

beerbane said:

I saw Hyrda in there too - what else is that build packing? Looks pretty active and fun!

Soul Beam
Hex of Suffering
Sigils of the Storm
Sigils of Destruction
Sigils of Arcane Runes
Warlock's Blades
Pyromancer's Blades
Hydra
Conviction
Eldritch Shield
Spellcaster
Conjuring
Aura of Ebon Destruction

That's awesome - does AoED interact with Sigils? I never realized that and have always spooled dumb regular pets behind the aura instead. Really impressive damage and fun looking building!

spinnytop

Yes. Sigils do get the aura, but they can't crit so they won't proc the black lightning. The blades and the hydras get it all, and they actually have a decent crit chance around 30%.

pantagruel01

Sigils have huge dps if they aren't destroyed. Summon shadows is also very high damage relative to its casting time.

spinnytop

Yes, and after so long of people saying these things would be useless at cosmics due to their aoe attacks destroying them it's kinda funny to be placing very well with them ^_^

pantagruel01

Kiga and Qwyjibo both are gonna blow everything up every 30s or so, but most of the uncontrollable pets don't last longer than that anyway. AoE spam at dino seems like more of a concern; does being held actually prevent sigils from firing, though?

monaahiru

This build provided me pretty good idea to revive my AoED pet toon. Thank you.

highjusticar

i would love to see the full build. I ahve been toying with the idea of a steampunk summoner type of character.

riverocean

spinnytop said:

Yes, and after so long of people saying these things would be useless at cosmics due to their aoe attacks destroying them it's kinda funny to be placing very well with them ^_^

Can you please, please record a video of this build performing at cosmics? Pet lovers all over CO will love you for it.

spinnytop

I can do that. Later today at some point. For now here's the scoreboard from the Ape I was at a little bit ago.

riverocean

spinnytop said:

I can do that. Later today at some point. For now here's the scoreboard from the Ape I was at a little bit ago.

You are my new hero.

spinnytop

Here is what was a pretty terrible Kiga. I started recording late cause I forgot. It's not the whole fight but it gives a good idea of what it looks like to use the build there.
https://youtu.be/rCtq9AfItqs

And also the scoreboard from that fight

s( u w u )z


...I actually went afk for 10 minutes at one point cause I had to do a thing... like I said, it was a terrible Kiga xD

legendarylycan

hey, i was in that fight...wonder if that was the kiga fight where one of the dogs kept getting loose, which in turn set the other 3 free as well​​

riverocean

spinnytop said:

And also the scoreboard from that fight

No freaking way!!!! Top score on a pet build?!?!?!!?

Spinny - you win. Seriously, I have nothing to say in the face of this awesomeness.






After watching the video here's my wild speculation theory:

- Hex of Suffering - Magic Damage Debuff.
- Presence Primary - w/Moment of Glory to boost Self & Pet Crit chance. Also, up's performance of AOED
- Ritual Pets & Sigils - These pets have a high HP range. They also do magic damage. I suspect the cloned versions (Pyromancers Blades & Storm Sigils) inherited the same base stats.
- AOED: Buffs pet and sigil damage plus additional magic damage on crit.
- Commander Spec Tree: Boosting both damage done & max health.
- Arbiter Spec Tree: Notably 'Arbiter Aura'. Boosts melee damage. Would definitely help swords and possibly exploding Sigils.
- Soul Beam: Moar magic damage!
- Hydra: I don't own this pet but it looks like a mini-tank. Seems durable with great damage.

roughbearmattach

This build isn't the kind of "petmaster" build that most folks want/like. I like it, a lot. But it doesn't use "controllable pets", nor does it rely on an army of persistent pets.

Using the high-damage, short duration pets is what makes this really go.

spinnytop

riverocean said:

After watching the video here's my wild speculation theory:

You're a madman! \o3o/ Though some of the things you listed are certainly things to try. Wouldn't surprise me if the build can be improved on in various ways.

I did the thing with the thing, so here's the thing: http://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=25&n=&d=1546004000000710n3M000ME00MH00M4031207M303MV032E032H03MG00MA03Ma00MK03K5000tH7438W3UeW

roughbearmattach said:

This build isn't the kind of "petmaster" build that most folks want/like. I like it, a lot. But it doesn't use "controllable pets", nor does it rely on an army of persistent pets.

Using the high-damage, short duration pets is what makes this really go.

Yes. Luckily I don't find the persistent pets all that interesting... I like having buttons to push ^_^

riverocean

> @roughbearmattach said:
> This build isn't the kind of "petmaster" build that most folks want/like. I like it, a lot. But it doesn't use "controllable pets", nor does it rely on an army of persistent pets.
>
> Using the high-damage, short duration pets is what makes this really go.

It does make you look at the persistent pets a little differently. Their damage and durability need improving. I tried my own version of Spinney's build last night. Was able to run a crypt and defeat the QWZ Demolisher.

The biggest drawback was how sqiushy the build was, so I'm trying to figure out a tankier version. Double Blade summons are awesomeness!!!

spinnytop

Yes, the build benefits a lot from blocking while your pets do the work, as well as teleport and line-of-sight shenanigens.

pantagruel01

roughbearmattach said:

This build isn't the kind of "petmaster" build that most folks want/like. I like it, a lot. But it doesn't use "controllable pets", nor does it rely on an army of persistent pets.

The base problem is that damage powers in CO are mostly balanced around the time cost of using them, and the time cost of using controllable pets is very low except in content that regularly makes them explode. Thus, their damage is also quite low. Making them more effective would probably involve also increasing the time cost of using them.

spinnytop

Yeah well.. at least sigils n swords n hydras are awesome \owo/

I'm sure the other pets will become awesome in time as well.

jaazaniah1

If you are going for whirling blades, why not Ego Blade Pandemonium instead of Hydra?

roughbearmattach

Gave this a try today at Kiga--my level 35 character using just leveling gear did quite well, upper middle of the pack. Instead of using Soul Beam for more DPS, I instead used Life Essence to spam AoE heals, which is also useful at Kiga. I'm using Compassion as a toggle.

riverocean

I tried a version of this using the commander and guardian spec trees.

<b>Commander Tree (10/10)</b>
Rapid Response (2/2)
Create An Opening (2/2)
Multitasker (1/3)
Durable (2/3)
Savage (3/3)

<b>Guardian Tree (10/10)</b>
Fortified Gear (3/3)
Ruthless (2/2)
Find the Mark (2/3)
The Best Defense (3/3)

Primary was Intelligence, with Presence & Con. Rapid response made it super easy to spam pets. Did very well in the Halloween open missions. This might be a good easy to use build for people to try for events. Just spam the pets and toss out heals.Easy peasy.

legendarylycan

why didn't you spend the full 10 points in the commander tree?​​

riverocean

> @shadowfang240 said:
> why didn't you spend the full 10 points in the commander tree?​​

Opps. That's a weird typo...should be 2points in durable!!!!

roughbearmattach

Neat stuff: the voodoo block can crit, so can trigger ebon lightning.

Annoying stuff: You have to deal with people calling out "no pets dozens of times in a cosmic fight.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

Annoying stuff: You have to deal with people calling out "no pets dozens of times in a cosmic fight.

Yeah well if they keep doing it then one day all of us will bring our pet builds to the fight at the same time and their heads will explode \o/

riverocean said:

Primary was Intelligence, with Presence & Con. Rapid response made it super easy to spam pets. Did very well in the Halloween open missions. This might be a good easy to use build for people to try for events. Just spam the pets and toss out heals.Easy peasy.

Yeah Rapid Response is pretty much required, can't even imagine the build without it. Since you tried Int primary, did your sigils get your resistance penetration from Detect Vulnerability?

riverocean

roughbearmattach said:

Neat stuff: the voodoo block can crit, so can trigger ebon lightning.

I'll have to try that voodoo block!!!

roughbearmattach said:

Annoying stuff: You have to deal with people calling out "no pets dozens of times in a cosmic fight.

Hah! I haven't done a cosmic yet. But my two pet builds are easily scoring top spots on the leaderboards for events. One running AOED and the other AOPM. I noticed the blades crit a lot. Also, their AI seems to keep them very focused on target. They don't wander all over like the permanent pets do. Maybe it's the short timer they have?

spinnytop said:

Yeah Rapid Response is pretty much required, can't even imagine the build without it. Since you tried Int primary, did your sigils get your resistance penetration from Detect Vulnerability?

I have no idea really. My guess is no - but maybe someone much smarter then me will chime in with a real answer.

flowcyto

Last I checked, sep entities and pets didn't benefit from -resist buffs that are applied to ur hero (like DV).

spinnytop

flowcyto said:

Last I checked, sep entities and pets didn't benefit from -resist buffs that are applied to ur hero (like DV).

Did a quick test and Detect Vuln doesn't apply to Sigils. What's interesting however is that your damage bonus is applied to them, for example from your Form stacks.

roughbearmattach

The short term pets stayed focused on Kiga entire time I used them.

Haven't tried on Ape yet, but I suspect there will be no issue unless a heart spawns super close--in that case, it's usually a bigger problem, anyway.

flowcyto

spinnytop said:

Did a quick test and Detect Vuln doesn't apply to Sigils. What's interesting however is that your damage bonus is applied to them, for example from your Form stacks.

yea, dps sigls are kinda in their own class where they scale w/ normal stats like separate entities do (ex. Dust Devil, Firesnake, etc), but also get benefits from auras like normal pets do (entities, aka 'psuedo-pets', don't- but also can't be destroyed). So even if they can't crit, dps sigils have their own sort of double-dipping going on when it comes to adding auras and stuff- making them potentially very strong if they are in-range and not destroyed.

pwestolemyname

spinnytop said:

I did the thing with the thing, so here's the thing: http://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=25&n=&d=1546004000000710n3M000ME00MH00M4031207M303MV032E032H03MG00MA03Ma00MK03K5000tH7438W3UeW

Now, why does only one of your Sigils have Mystic Transference? Is there a trick I'm missing?

flowcyto said:

auras like normal pets do (entities, aka 'psuedo-pets', don't-

Man, I am bummed to hear this. I have a pseudo-pet build that I'd really like to make viable and I was hoping AoED would help its DPS significantly.

spinnytop

pwestolemyname said:

Now, why does only one of your Sigils have Mystic Transference? Is there a trick I'm missing

2 reasons:

1) 5 sigils = big DPS, so I definitely want at least one of my sigils to be the 5 pack variety.
2) You can summon the 5 sigil version and the 2 sigil version at the same time, for 7 sigils total. ( 7 sigils = even bigger DPS )

flowcyto

Man, I am bummed to hear this. I have a pseudo-pet build that I'd really like to make viable and I was hoping AoED would help its DPS significantly.

They'll still be buffed, but by the base dmg boost that AoED gives you- ala a normal attack. A build that's all psuedo-pets, w/ no sigils or actual pets (temporary or permanent), will prob want to go w/ a normal fitting offensive passive and dps role (likely Ranged since all_most entities are flagged as ranged), and it'll prob depend on what ur filler attack is. Night Warrior is good for all types of dmg; even if the 10% -resist doesn't affect entities/pets, it'll still boost ur own filler attack(s), and that's not insignificant. Quarry w/ Int SS can be fine too.

jaazaniah1

How would this work as a variant of the original? I wanted something more melee-ish

Scimitar - Freeform
v2.3.2-25

Super Stats
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Eldritch Bolts
Level 1: Spellcaster
Level 6: Conjuring
Level 8: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Warlock's Blades (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Hex of Suffering
Level 20: Pyromancer's Blades (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Summon Shadows (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Ego Blade Frenzy (Rank 2)
Level 29: Sigils of Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Sigils of the Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3, Mystic Transference)
Level 35: Pillar of Poz
Level 38: Ego Blade Pandemonium (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Teleportation (Rank 2)
Level 35: Magic Carpet

Specializations
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Commander: Evasive Action (2/2)
Commander: Rapid Response (2/2)
Commander: Create An Opening (1/2)
Commander: Well Trained (2/2)
Commander: Savage (3/3)
Mastery: Commander Mastery (1/1)

roughbearmattach

Mine is AoED healer, using Life Essence and a shuriken and inernal bolts to apply poison. Works extremely well, scoring in the top 20 at Cosmics . . . at level 36, with leveling gear.

spinnytop

jaazaniah1 said:

How would this work as a variant of the original? I wanted something more melee-ish

There's some competing factors at play here so it's hard to say if your changes are beneficial or detrimental. The addition of pandemonium certainly looks like a buff to damage output, but not sure about shadows or Frenzy. Adding Poz will certainly let you get your stacks up faster.

I say go whack a PH dummy for a few minutes and see what you get ^_^

jonesing4

What is the “Well Trained” spec modifying here, spinny? I always assumed that spec was referring to the pet abilities you had to manage/click yourself (like the power siphon from the sorcery golem). Does Well Trained allow the sigils to attack more frequently, or let the blades hit bigger/more often? I don’t really know how their attacks work.

jaazaniah1

Another way of approaching it, really focusing on the TK aspect. Not sure what the best ratio of Dex-Con-Pre might be.

Frenzy is a whirling blade "block" for the build that adds a bit of damage.

Scimitar - Freeform
v2.3.2-25

Super Stats
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Finesse (Dex: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Kinetic Darts
Level 1: Mental Discipline
Level 6: Telekinetic Reverberation
Level 8: Aura of Ebon Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Warlock's Blades (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Ego Blade Frenzy (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Pyromancer's Blades (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Summon Shadows (Rank 2)
Level 26: Telekinetic Assault
Level 29: Sigils of Destruction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Sigils of the Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3, Mystic Transference)
Level 35: Pillar of Poz
Level 38: Ego Blade Pandemonium (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Teleportation (Rank 2)
Level 35: Magic Carpet

Specializations
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Commander: Evasive Action (2/2)
Commander: Rapid Response (2/2)
Commander: Create An Opening (1/2)
Commander: Well Trained (2/2)
Commander: Savage (3/3)
Mastery: Commander Mastery (1/1)

spinnytop

jonesing4 said:

What is the “Well Trained” spec modifying here, spinny? I always assumed that spec was referring to the pet abilities you had to manage/click yourself (like the power siphon from the sorcery golem). Does Well Trained allow the sigils to attack more frequently, or let the blades hit bigger/more often? I don’t really know how their attacks work.

Not sure. I should probably test that.

spinnytop

Did some testing.

The well trained spec doesn't do anything for sigils. It also doesn't do anything for the sword pets either, primarily because they don't appear to have a cooldown on their spinning attack. So really for my build this spec is useless so I'm probably gonna switch it to something else.

Other thing I found out: Savage doesn't effect sigils either. Neither does Durable. Both do effect the swords. Sigils are clearly not considered "pets" by these specs except when it comes to Rapid Response. Didn't test Evasive Action.

Also just to be sure of it I tested a bit to make sure that AoED effects sigils and it does.

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

Also just to be sure of it I tested a bit to make sure that AoED effects sigils and it does.

Does it directly affect sigils, or does it boost your personal damage and that boost applies to the sigils?

spinnytop

pantagruel01 said:

Does it directly affect sigils, or does it boost your personal damage and that boost applies to the sigils?

Not something I can test alone.