I challenge you tryhards! >:D

spinnytop

Okay all you number pushing spreadsheeters, what is the highest dps you can put out on a character in hybrid role with a defensive passive on a PH test dummy?

2 categories:

1. Without devices
2. With devices

Otherwise build any way you like, so long as it uses a Defensive Passive and is in hybrid role. Let's get some numbers on this o3o

The reward for the winner is knowing that we have something we can refer to when people ask if hybrids are useless in endgame or not.

markhawkman

I once got parsed at 1370 DPS on Dino while using a hybrid with AoPM passive. (yes that was Tsin'xing)

Yeah I don't actually have a parser. I should probably get one...

biffsmackwell

1370 is pretty low, isn't it? But I guess at Dino what matters is your burst. Can you do 10k over 5 seconds for the dps check?

markhawkman

I don't really know, that particular parse had 3372 as the top DPS. This was the last stage of dino after passing the final DPS check until when it died. Also I should probably look up the difference between DPS and EncDPS... not that those were much different on that parse.

Also there was one point where I teleported out of plasma breath range..... um, yeah.... fun times.

spinnytop

Well, your dps against dino is way lower than your dps against a target dummy, and at dino things can get a little chaotic so you're not necessarily even going to have the same dps two dinos in a row

aiqa

Isn't this just "dps/1.25"? Since dps role gives a 25% base damage bonus.

/edit
Oh didn't consider the passive... well a bit lower then.
Probably around 60 or 50% of what a dedicated dps build would do then.

kamokami

markhawkman said:

Yeah I don't actually have a parser. I should probably get one...

https://arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1209292/parser-usage-guide

Get it. It's well worth the 15 minutes it takes to set up. If for nothing other than saving you Gs during retcons since you'll be able to actually test stuff in the PH.

flyingfinn

Does this mean i should turn my dmg numbers on in Ui??

kamokami

flyingfinn said:

Does this mean i should turn my dmg numbers on in Ui??

I have them on for myself and off for others. They're a good quick way to compare singular hits of one attack power vs another. But if you're testing full builds or rotations, you really need a parser to be able to tell what's better.

pantagruel01

There's actually a simple way of doing this test: take your existing dps build, unslot its passive, change role to hybrid. You don't actually have a defensive passive, but defensive passives don't affect your dps.

My experience is that, if you don't otherwise change stats and gear, you'll lose 30-40% of your total dps.

Unknown

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pwestolemyname

Just tried it with my fire tanker, Vulcana. She came out at just under 2400 sustained. It could be better, but part of her energy management relies on Defiance. So, when she's not taking damage, she gets a little energy starved. Also, that 2400 is AOE, which is not such a big deal at cosmics, but comes in handy in QWZ. Also, that was without devices. So, just on her regular rotation, she more than makes the DPS checks at Dino.

pantagruel01

Okay, testing my tank in hybrid role. If I were serious about being dps, I'd replace tank gloves with slicer gloves and my confront with a DUC, which would add several hundred dps, and then swap some con mods for strength mods, but that would take effort. I'd also replace ego surge, which I haven't yet gotten around to retconning out of.

Result: 3476 dps, of which 373 was devices (but without devices I could get a hair more dps out of powers).
https://imgur.com/a/SklVB

spinnytop

Would love for people to actually post screenshots of their parses

pwestolemyname

spinnytop said:

Would love for people to actually post screenshots of their parses

Are you going to do the challenge, Spinny?

spinnytop

pwestolemyname said:

Are you going to do the challenge, Spinny?

Sure I can pretend to be a tryhard o3o I'll use rockenroll since she already has all the stuff I'd need

highreality

What I got with a low effort Dragon's Claws build

Don't know how good that is, I've only newly started using the combat tracker. Maybe not the max, but that definitely makes the cut in a cosmic fight.

pwestolemyname

I think we might be doing this wrong.

nepht

There is a flaw with this thread. Foxi is a tryhard :^D

markhawkman

primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Tsin%27xing

spinnytop

Tried both Rockenroll and Xyrixa. Got this.

carrionbaggage

I use my ego blade dps character for content with damage checks, so I tried parsing her for the Hybrid test. Same build and gear for each parse, just different passive/role restrictions:



Notes/Thoughts:
The build stacks a secondary superstat, so Hybrid role receives some extra damage bonus from that. There's a Neuroelectric Pulse Generator in the mix, so I suppose it qualifies for Category 2. I got a little luckier with crits on the Hybrid parse, but it's not a severe gap compared to the other parses.

I lost a lower percentage of damage than I suspected in the restrictive parses, probably because the build is already into heavy diminishing returns on damage bonuses.

For damage-focused freeform characters that run a defensive passive, unslotting their passive and running in a DPS role is a nice alternative if they want to boost their contribution in damage-check content; especially if they're stacking a lot of damage bonuses (superstats, toggle form, active offenses, etc) which lessen the relative impact of the damage bonus from a slotted passive.

A build that deals a lot of damage, which also runs in Hybrid role, is going to generate a lot of threat in Cosmic fights.

aesica

If you really wanted this to be useful, you'd have the participants take a third set of data for which they'd use a dps role + dps passive.​​

spinnytop

Not sure knowing how much less damage we do in hybrid than we do in dps role would do. Also, not all these characters even have a dps passive, so you're basically asking people to dump money into retcons for information that isn't necessarily useful. If you give people the G's tho I'm sure they'll happily oblige ^____^

aesica

The point is to show them the difference between what they're using and what they could be doing.​​

chaelk

I can get lower than all of these cause I'm a slacker

spinnytop

aesica said:

The point is to show them the difference between what they're using and what they could be doing.​​

Actually the point is to find out how much dps someone can do in hybrid role with a defensive passive o3o they could be doing like 8k in dps role with a dps passive, but that's already known

aesica

Up to you since it doesn't really matter to me either way. I just thought you might want more complete and useful data. That's all.​​

markhawkman

"more useful"? Uh right... you mean duplicate data that's already available?

pantagruel01

Of course, calling someone with 5k hp and a defensive passive defensive is pushing it. Might want a minimum standard of durability.

aesica

markhawkman wrote: »

"more useful"? Uh right... you mean duplicate data that's already available?

Right. I forgot that all builds and player skill levels do the exact same damage. And certainly, there's absolutely no value whatsoever in having side-by-side comparisons in a thread where the supposed purpose is to provide a reference for how well (or poorly) defensivepassive/hybrid characters perform in relation to proper damage role/offensive passive characters.

Utterly amazing that I even need to explain this. ┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻​​

spinnytop

pantagruel01 said:

Of course, calling someone with 5k hp and a defensive passive defensive is pushing it. Might want a minimum standard of durability.

I'm comfortable with only the stipulation of the passive. Nothing stopping a hybrid from having a second set of gear for dpsing ^_^

aesica said:

Up to you since it doesn't really matter to me either way. I just thought you might want more complete and useful data. That's all.​​

Some data in dps role with no passive maybe, but the point here is to see what hybrids can do in the hybrid role. It has nothing to do with comparing hybrids to dps characters. Utterly amazing that I need to explain this... considering it's outlined in the OP

pwestolemyname

So, just from the small amount of data we have so far, it seems that getting near 3000DPS on a hybrid/defensive is totally doable. But, it seems like most of the testers are Freeform.

I think it might also be interesting to test this with Defensive-style ATs in Hybrid (can they even do that?). It seems to me that this is what most of the Hybrids at Cosmics are. This could quickly be tested on PTS, I'm sure.

pantagruel01

pwestolemyname said:

So, just from the small amount of data we have so far, it seems that getting near 3000DPS on a hybrid/defensive is totally doable. But, it seems like most of the testers are Freeform.

The 3k dps are mostly "lemme take my tank and run it in hybrid". 5k isn't gonna be that hard if you actually build for it (just take a 7k dps melee build and redo it as a hybrid), it's just that no-one is going to bother.

As for ATs, it's likely that you can get around 5k dps with a Specialist, Savage, or Night Avenger (possibly more if some of them are unfixed ATs).

pwestolemyname

Okay, just tried it with a Behemoth AT. Of course, you can't get into Hybrid roll, so I just went in with Tank mode on. Just using Demolish for the debuff and then Haymaker, I was getting around 2200-2300 DPS. Definitely enough to make a DPS check. Kitted out with full Distinguished and OV gear, using R7 mods. Was having a bit of Energy problems, but nothing that wouldn't work out in combat with Defiance feeding me. I did gear a bit for Dex, so I would have a little bit of a chance to crit. Also geared for Offense/Defense. Might have geared for Crit chance and Sev, and that might have helped. Geared for mostly full STR with just enough CON to get me over the 10K mark. All in all, not bad, I think. But, definitely, an non-tanky Behemoth can make the DPS check.

spinnytop

Would love to see some hybrid ATs post some results. Especially curious about the Savage and Night Avenger.

carrionbaggage

spinnytop said:

Would love to see some hybrid ATs post some results. Especially curious about the Savage and Night Avenger.

Does the Night Avenger qualify for the test? It uses an offensive passive...though the poor thing is indeed stuck in Hybrid role.

spinnytop

Night Avenger gets a special pass and qualifies since it can't leave Hybrid.

pwestolemyname

spinnytop said:

Would love to see some hybrid ATs post some results. Especially curious about the Savage and Night Avenger.

Yeah, I want to test one of the Hybrid ATs

carrionbaggage

Night Avenger parties pretty hard.

pantagruel01

That looks suspiciously like an AT with no DR (if so, fixing its DR would probably result in more like 6k, which is still pretty good).

spinnytop

yeah 7.7k reeks of unfixed DR. But hey until it gets fixed, feel free to bring your night avengers to Dino

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

yeah 7.7k reeks of unfixed DR. But hey until it gets fixed, feel free to bring your night avengers to Dino

To be fair, I expect a fixed night avenger would also have a DPS role, so fixing DR would barely affect damage.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 said:

To be fair, I expect a fixed night avenger would also have a DPS role, so fixing DR would barely affect damage.

or they might give him lightning reflexes. speculation is fun