I think it just had the unfortunate happenstance of being shelled into the fact they needed to get Nimoy back into the movie. It was done in a bad way, the whole Genesis thing mixed with the magic soul transfer BS, and this being coupled with the fact that David was killed just right after Kirk and him reconciled and finally got close to one another as father and son, and then of course the destruction of the Enterprise. Kid me the impact of that was just big cause I grew up watching TOS with my father. So seeing that iconic ship just gone was inconceivable for me.
I can appreciate these days what they were trying to do, but it just didn't come together well and it was obviously and hastily stitched together and of course you had so many inconsistencies between Star Trek 2 and 3 that you have to wonder what happened at times.
ST3 wasn't a great film, but at least the rebirth of Spock made sense, with the method of his resurrection having been in the previous movie and not some last-minute deus ex machina. Trek needs to give a nod to the science part of sci-fi, and be consistent within its own universe, not just "look, we worked out a way to break all the rules!!". That just means no-one believes in the rules.
As for the Enterprise constantly getting blown up... it's the Enterprise, ffs. Named after the most decorated and hard to kill US Navy carrier in WW2, it's supposed to be a lucky ship, defying the odds time after time. Dying hard in ST3 was fine, but increasingly it seems to be something they do for the fx value. They need to treat the next one with the respect they had to give to "Voyager" (without which there wasn't a series)...
ST3 wasn't a great film, but at least the rebirth of Spock made sense, with the method of his resurrection having been in the previous movie and not some last-minute deus ex machina. Trek needs to give a nod to the science part of sci-fi, and be consistent within its own universe, not just "look, we worked out a way to break all the rules!!". That just means no-one believes in the rules.
As for the Enterprise constantly getting blown up... it's the Enterprise, ffs. Named after the most decorated and hard to kill US Navy carrier in WW2, it's supposed to be a lucky ship, defying the odds time after time. Dying hard in ST3 was fine, but increasingly it seems to be something they do for the fx value. They need to treat the next one with the respect they had to give to "Voyager" (without which there wasn't a series)...
Actually they didn't even respect Voyager, as it was also destroyed or nearly so in multiple points of it's voyage. The difference is they often used some time travel or alternate reality plot to make it so it never happened.
The Year of Hell two parter is one example.
The other was the alternate timeline in which Voyager never made it home but crash landed on a ice planet a few light years from the Alpha Quadrant. In that alternate timeline a future Harry Kim send data via some link back to the past Harry Kim to have them avoid crash landing. It was also one of the times they used Quantum Slipstream in the series.
All of the above is paraphrasing. For anyone interested:
ST3 wasn't a great film, but at least the rebirth of Spock made sense, with the method of his resurrection having been in the previous movie and not some last-minute deus ex machina. Trek needs to give a nod to the science part of sci-fi, and be consistent within its own universe, not just "look, we worked out a way to break all the rules!!". That just means no-one believes in the rules.
As for the Enterprise constantly getting blown up... it's the Enterprise, ffs. Named after the most decorated and hard to kill US Navy carrier in WW2, it's supposed to be a lucky ship, defying the odds time after time. Dying hard in ST3 was fine, but increasingly it seems to be something they do for the fx value. They need to treat the next one with the respect they had to give to "Voyager" (without which there wasn't a series)...
No, the rebirth of Spock did not make sense, especially since the entire series and everything up to that point had made dead is dead quite clear in the Star Trek universe. This secret, forbidden technique all the sudden appears for Spock and Spock alone but has never been done for other Vulcans since? Never mind it is just simply magic in what had, up to that point, been deemed loose science fiction that while used things like psychic telepathy to some degree at least kept it some what grounded. It was convenience for convenience sake and completely ruined the sacrifice made at the end of Star Trek 2.
Voyager had no respect, so asking them to treat it like that is not a good idea. And actually the Enterprise was suppose to have been named the Yorktown, but it was changed later.
Never thought of that before, but your right. His original movie death was a powerful sendoff...bringing him back did ruin it. ^the new cast just didnt have the heart for the part, their acting felt too cold.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
> @freewaydoggy said: > I mean, wouldn't it be awesome if I could create & customize my main character as a villainess & then create a heroine nemesis that always tries to stop her at every turn, but my villainess comes up victorious?
The game isn't supported enough to do this. The best hero game ever was CoH and then they added villains and it got even better, but the project was ended while it was one of the highest grossing titles from NCSoft so that the supporting team could be moved over to another title. Champions Online doesn't even follow the real game's rules or values. That gameset allowed for villains. This game has been developed much like Elder Scrolls - in name only, with no to little actual content from the real product. So how could a company trying to already squeeze some profit from the game justify expending more revenue into changing it? They can't risk it.
The game isn't supported enough to do this. The best hero game ever was CoH and then they added villains and it got even better, but the project was ended while it was one of the highest grossing titles from NCSoft so that the supporting team could be moved over to another title. Champions Online doesn't even follow the real game's rules or values. That gameset allowed for villains. This game has been developed much like Elder Scrolls - in name only, with no to little actual content from the real product. So how could a company trying to already squeeze some profit from the game justify expending more revenue into changing it? They can't risk it.
*sighs* No, CoH wasn't one of the highest grossing titles for NCSoft. It wasn't even near the top. While opinions are opinions reality is reality, and CoH was not some misunderstood gem.
You can look this up for yourself by looking at NCSoft earnings report, and I went back as far as 2005, and CoH/V has never been shown to exceed 10% of NCSoft's total earnings, and that was back in 2005's report, the oldest one in the archives. By the time of CoH closure it was 2%, at best, of NCSoft's earnings, a far cry from anywhere close to the top. And before people try to flip it around, earnings does not mean profit.
That's on top of the many inaccuracies of what villains side was, which was just a re-skinned version of hero side, and I know it is a bitter pill for many people to swallow, but CoH game play wasn't exactly stellar. It's major saving grace was the lore, if you were into that thing (many gamers aren't) and the community (which can be a mixed bag since they grew insular and raging fanboish and quite toxic at the end).
Seems like any time someone mentions being able to play a villain in CO, the conversation invariably turns to CoH... even tho the "This other game had feature X, so this game should have feature X" argument isn't a good one.
What never made sense about Spock's resurrection was why he didn't self destruct like the planet. He aged rapidly, but only to a certain point.
Yes, I always questioned that to. Many people tend to hand wave it as he just "left the planet" and thus wasn't under the influence anymore, which is bogus. And of course, the one thing never addressed is that Saavik was actually suppose to have been knocked up by Spock in an out take from Star Trek 4, hence that goofy grin Kirk gave Saavik, while looking down at her stomach, for no explanation at the beginning of Star Trek 4 when they leave Vulcan.
Seems like any time someone mentions being able to play a villain in CO, the conversation invariably turns to CoH... even tho the "This other game had feature X, so this game should have feature X" argument isn't a good one.
While I think this game could use some more attention from cryptic, I enjoy it like it is tbh. I have fun here. =^.^=
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
What never made sense about Spock's resurrection was why he didn't self destruct like the planet. He aged rapidly, but only to a certain point.
Yes, I always questioned that to. Many people tend to hand wave it as he just "left the planet" and thus wasn't under the influence anymore, which is bogus. And of course, the one thing never addressed is that Saavik was actually suppose to have been knocked up by Spock in an out take from Star Trek 4, hence that goofy grin Kirk gave Saavik, while looking down at her stomach, for no explanation at the beginning of Star Trek 4 when they leave Vulcan.
Yeah, it was heavily implied by the pon farr scene....
What never made sense about Spock's resurrection was why he didn't self destruct like the planet. He aged rapidly, but only to a certain point.
Spock's body wasn't on the planet when the Genesis wave was triggered; that would have over-written his DNA and created a new life form. Presumably they hadn't tested Genesis on whether it would reanimate dead things (it's not Resident Evil, after all), but presumably there was a restorative effect which remained after the initial creation (pace Genesis). And wasn't it the planet, not the life forms on it, which were unstable? I'm going to have to go and watch ST3 again, aren't I....
What never made sense about Spock's resurrection was why he didn't self destruct like the planet. He aged rapidly, but only to a certain point.
Spock's body wasn't on the planet when the Genesis wave was triggered; that would have over-written his DNA and created a new life form. Presumably they hadn't tested Genesis on whether it would reanimate dead things (it's not Resident Evil, after all), but presumably there was a restorative effect which remained after the initial creation (pace Genesis). And wasn't it the planet, not the life forms on it, which were unstable? I'm going to have to go and watch ST3 again, aren't I....
Protomatter was used in the matrix and the matrix itself was unstable. Anything that was in contact with the Genesis wave was subject to this rapid aging process, and in summation, Spock, regardless of his proximity to the planet should have kept rapidly aging.
honestly, Spock should have aged much faster than the planet did. I mean seriously.... the idea of a planet dying of old age? RW there are no known geological processes capable of making a planet explode.
none of those geological processes include protomatter, though
No, he's right the core of a planet would die out long before an explosion can occur. It was done for drama and tension. I mean the rate at which Genesis was created and born, take our own planet, billions of years old, and in less than a year Genesis went from freshly created planet to the heat death of the universe (trillions of years of time) and in the time Spock ages just enough to be his proper age? Never mind the huge plot hole of the Genesis wave affecting no one else but Spock. It would be one thing if the planet was just unstable, but they literally repeated and demonstrated that the planet is aging in surges, and those surges, and if that were the case, and the time frame of a planetary lifespan is far longer than a human being or vulcans.
Actually, the one explicable matter there was the wave only affecting Spock. His coffin was deposited on the Genesis World itself while the world was still undergoing the Genesis Effect. Later visitors were unaffected because the Effect was done with; the planet aged (and evolved) rapidly because of the effects of protomatter on the process, but the wave itself was expended by then.
The rest of it falls under Treknobabble, of course...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Actually, the one explicable matter there was the wave only affecting Spock. His coffin was deposited on the Genesis World itself while the world was still undergoing the Genesis Effect. Later visitors were unaffected because the Effect was done with; the planet aged (and evolved) rapidly because of the effects of protomatter on the process, but the wave itself was expended by then.
The rest of it falls under Treknobabble, of course...
I could accept that, if the effect was one time but it wasn't it was a continuously going on, which is the only way to explain the constant rapid aging of everything. Furthermore, Spock's pod was depositted after the planet was formed.
Actually, the one explicable matter there was the wave only affecting Spock. His coffin was deposited on the Genesis World itself while the world was still undergoing the Genesis Effect. Later visitors were unaffected because the Effect was done with; the planet aged (and evolved) rapidly because of the effects of protomatter on the process, but the wave itself was expended by then.
The rest of it falls under Treknobabble, of course...
I could accept that, if the effect was one time but it wasn't it was a continuously going on, which is the only way to explain the constant rapid aging of everything. Furthermore, Spock's pod was depositted after the planet was formed.
The planet was formed, but you could see from space that the ecosystem was still developing (red volcanic gleams through the clouds and such). And the physical matrix, which was what was rapidly aging, appeared to be doing so as a side effect of the inclusion of protomatter, rather than being an ongoing expression of the Genesis Effect (which is why people were able to visit the planet later without being affected, unlike the Ba'ku homeworld).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Actually, the one explicable matter there was the wave only affecting Spock. His coffin was deposited on the Genesis World itself while the world was still undergoing the Genesis Effect. Later visitors were unaffected because the Effect was done with; the planet aged (and evolved) rapidly because of the effects of protomatter on the process, but the wave itself was expended by then.
The rest of it falls under Treknobabble, of course...
I could accept that, if the effect was one time but it wasn't it was a continuously going on, which is the only way to explain the constant rapid aging of everything. Furthermore, Spock's pod was depositted after the planet was formed.
The planet was formed, but you could see from space that the ecosystem was still developing (red volcanic gleams through the clouds and such). And the physical matrix, which was what was rapidly aging, appeared to be doing so as a side effect of the inclusion of protomatter, rather than being an ongoing expression of the Genesis Effect (which is why people were able to visit the planet later without being affected, unlike the Ba'ku homeworld).
Even that makes no sense since the Ecosystem was developed when they showed the pod on the planet. Again for the rapid aging to be explained (Spock was affected by it to) the waves would have to still be going on, and leaving the planet, Spock would still be suffering the rapid aging effect, but it just magically ended when they left Genesis.
Not sure, i think i started it....maybe we can bring it back again:
they have a lot of become devices, maybe they can add "become X villain" devices to teh store? ^these alert level villains arent really over the top like Grond or Gravatar, so they should balance out like the werewolf and mech, but maybe you can use them for battling other players and good aligned npcs too, not just gangs and stuff
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
How did this go from a I WANT TO BE MAGNETO! thread to bloody Star Trek and space whales?
Because there are only so many ways to say "what you want isn't practical, and it isn't going to happen."
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Magnetism could fill in a Force Revamp along with Electric synergy
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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I can appreciate these days what they were trying to do, but it just didn't come together well and it was obviously and hastily stitched together and of course you had so many inconsistencies between Star Trek 2 and 3 that you have to wonder what happened at times.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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As for the Enterprise constantly getting blown up... it's the Enterprise, ffs. Named after the most decorated and hard to kill US Navy carrier in WW2, it's supposed to be a lucky ship, defying the odds time after time. Dying hard in ST3 was fine, but increasingly it seems to be something they do for the fx value. They need to treat the next one with the respect they had to give to "Voyager" (without which there wasn't a series)...
The Year of Hell two parter is one example.
The other was the alternate timeline in which Voyager never made it home but crash landed on a ice planet a few light years from the Alpha Quadrant. In that alternate timeline a future Harry Kim send data via some link back to the past Harry Kim to have them avoid crash landing. It was also one of the times they used Quantum Slipstream in the series.
All of the above is paraphrasing. For anyone interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeless_(Star_Trek:_Voyager)
Timeless is one of my favorite Voyager eps by the way.
Voyager had no respect, so asking them to treat it like that is not a good idea. And actually the Enterprise was suppose to have been named the Yorktown, but it was changed later.
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^the new cast just didnt have the heart for the part, their acting felt too cold.
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
Still nope.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
> I mean, wouldn't it be awesome if I could create & customize my main character as a villainess & then create a heroine nemesis that always tries to stop her at every turn, but my villainess comes up victorious?
The game isn't supported enough to do this. The best hero game ever was CoH and then they added villains and it got even better, but the project was ended while it was one of the highest grossing titles from NCSoft so that the supporting team could be moved over to another title. Champions Online doesn't even follow the real game's rules or values. That gameset allowed for villains. This game has been developed much like Elder Scrolls - in name only, with no to little actual content from the real product. So how could a company trying to already squeeze some profit from the game justify expending more revenue into changing it? They can't risk it.
You can look this up for yourself by looking at NCSoft earnings report, and I went back as far as 2005, and CoH/V has never been shown to exceed 10% of NCSoft's total earnings, and that was back in 2005's report, the oldest one in the archives. By the time of CoH closure it was 2%, at best, of NCSoft's earnings, a far cry from anywhere close to the top. And before people try to flip it around, earnings does not mean profit.
That's on top of the many inaccuracies of what villains side was, which was just a re-skinned version of hero side, and I know it is a bitter pill for many people to swallow, but CoH game play wasn't exactly stellar. It's major saving grace was the lore, if you were into that thing (many gamers aren't) and the community (which can be a mixed bag since they grew insular and raging fanboish and quite toxic at the end).
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
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Spock's body wasn't on the planet when the Genesis wave was triggered; that would have over-written his DNA and created a new life form. Presumably they hadn't tested Genesis on whether it would reanimate dead things (it's not Resident Evil, after all), but presumably there was a restorative effect which remained after the initial creation (pace Genesis). And wasn't it the planet, not the life forms on it, which were unstable? I'm going to have to go and watch ST3 again, aren't I....
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The rest of it falls under Treknobabble, of course...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
they have a lot of become devices, maybe they can add "become X villain" devices to teh store?
^these alert level villains arent really over the top like Grond or Gravatar, so they should balance out like the werewolf and mech, but maybe you can use them for battling other players and good aligned npcs too, not just gangs and stuff
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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there's a powerset idea - magnetism!
Magnetism could fill in a Force Revamp along with Electric synergy