Retconning my Freeform Martial Arts build

patternwalker

I'm back after being out of the game several months. My level 40 Freeform Martial Arts build has always been a lot of fun, but I see there are a couple of new MA powers that will work better for him (esp. the energy unlock and active offense powers).

This is kind of a concept build, and I'm not wanting to make huge changes. It's fairly defense-oriented for a melee DPS build, but I'm really happy with his survivability and wouldn't want to lose that. I have a few questions:

1) Should I change INT secondary superstat to REC or END, or is INT fine? I'm thinking REC might be more useful. As he's built now, he can be a bit thirsty for energy and I was considering throwing in some mods to give him more REC or END, but maybe it would just make sense to switch the energy superstat. (I do slot to give him more STR.)

2) I like all my attacks (even Dragon Uppercut as my primary damage dealer), but I almost never use Dragon Kick. Is there something useful to substitute in? Some sort of utility power, maybe? None of the Ultimate powers look thematically right for him. I'm okay with just using a flavor power like Grapple Gun Pull or a second heal, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something important.

3) Are the specializations okay?

4) Am I missing something big in the powers changes by picking what I've got below?

Here's my planned build. I appreciate any advice!

Monkey Boy - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Con: 10, Dex: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 15: Body and Mind (Str: 5, Int: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Righteous Fists
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Floating Lotus Blossom)
Level 6: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 8: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Inexorable Tides (Rank 2)
Level 14: Form of the Tempest
Level 17: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Parry (Rank 2, The Elusive Monk)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Floating Butterfly, Strong Arm)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Intensity
Level 35: Steadfast
Level 38: Dragon Kick (Rank 2, Lashing Dragon Tail)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Some slight tweaking to it:

Monkey Boy - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Con: 10, Dex: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 15: Body and Mind (Str: 5, Int: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Righteous Fists
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 8: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Inexorable Tides (Rank 2)
Level 14: Form of the Tempest
Level 17: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Parry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Floating Butterfly)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 35: Steadfast
Level 38: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)


Taking Steadfast means you can consolidate most of ur gearing to just Dex and Con, so you can take adv of Str PSS's Juggernaut for a huge defense boost and some knock resistance, and still have good dps. Replaced the AO w/ Ego Surge w/ NM, since its better for burst dps w/ Con SS, and replaced Dragon Kick w/ Resurgence so you have another emergency tool. Parry's EM and BCR will combine to give you a 20% dmg penalty to melee attacks, so I axed Parry's adv for r3.

patternwalker

Thanks so much for the suggested build, flowcyto! I have some questions.

1) How hard is energy management going to be without an energy superstat? I assume I'll have to gear up either REC or END, right?

2) Thanks for the advice about Ego Surge with Nimble Mind. That's what I have now, I just wondered if it was still that much better than other Active Offenses.

3) I know that STR as Primary superstat is fantastic (because of Juggernaut, Brutality, and Swole), it just sort of grates on me to take it on a toon that's not really supposed to be able to lift cars over his head. That's a silly reason to avoid it, I realize, but it's there. I'll think on whether I can actually bring myself to switch it over. In the meantime, what do you mean by "consolidating most of ur gearing to just Dex and Con"? Do you mean not really picking Talents and gear for STR at all, just taking advantage of the Specializations?

flowcyto

You can gear a bit of Rec on the side to boost ur resting energy, but you don't really need to SS Rec or End once you get decent gear. Rec/End are more prominent at lower gear levels (or lower levels in general) since ur likely end building more, but that diminishes as ur stats and gear quality rise. Its not a bad idea (necessarily) to level w/ Rec and/or End SS'd for extra energy from end building and/or to have a larger energy tank when you have much less cost discount (and/or Int) available. Ofc, many energy unlocks scale w/ Rec and End to justify SS'ing one of them regardless, but we're not taking one of those w/ Steadfast.

And yea, what I meant is that even though you'd have Str PSS'd, you could ignore gearing any Str at all if you wanted (and its prob best you do here). You'd overall likely gain more benefits from boosting Dex and Con (former for dps and better energy return, latter more for survival and burst dps w/ ES/NM). For that build, Str past its soft-cap of 70 does still boost knock resistance and Swole's HP a bit, and its still an SS's so boosting it does still buff ur slotted passive and gives the general SS dmg bonus, so its not like gearing it is a waste, but perhaps not the most efficient choice here.

patternwalker

I think you've convinced me on picking STR as the primary superstat.

flowcyto said:

You can gear a bit of Rec on the side to boost ur resting energy, but you don't really need to SS Rec or End once you get decent gear. Rec/End are more prominent at lower gear levels (or lower levels in general) since ur likely end building more, but that diminishes as ur stats and gear quality rise.

I don't really know much about endgame gearing. I only have 3 40s, and I have only put Heroic gear on 2 of them so far. I don't really understand how my gear quality will reduce the need for adding more REC or END or INT. I do see how more DEX makes Steadfast return more energy when I crit, but the gear side is still a puzzle to me. Does slotting for Cost Discount help? What should be be looking for in gear to make my energy problems better?

flowcyto

Thing is, low level gear often is overall pretty lacking in stats up till you get mid-high level and start to see more mod-able gear. Then stuff like cost discount can take a big leap in its itemization. Even starter lvl 40 gear (say, Mercenary-grade) can give you pretty high cost discount and/or cd reduction as is, and ofc boost ur primary stats pretty well, whereas when leveling its harder to get some of those stats to decent numbers. So yeah, ur energy situation can change drastically as you level.

Cost discount itself has a pretty harsh DR curve, such that the amounts you typically get w/ lvl 37-40 gear is good enough to get you heavy into that curve w/o much extra effort. If not SSing Int (which is on the same curve for cost discount), though, I prob would get utility gear w/ evenly mixed cd reduction and cost discount. As far as Rec/End and not SSing them at high level- I find talents and/or just a 2ndary gear slot w/ Rec is often fine for my resting energy, but that is ofc up to taste. The main thing for most max-lvl builds is to try to lessen the amount of energy building you do by then, since it has a high opportunity cost (very low hps/dps during that time). Dex gets you extra energy via FotT, Steadfast, and Rush (from charged Dragon Uppercut), so its especially good for that issue here.. though 2 of those are a bit rng-dependent (being crit-based, which Dex also helps derive).

patternwalker

flowcyto said:

Cost discount itself has a pretty harsh DR curve, such that the amounts you typically get w/ lvl 37-40 gear is good enough to get you heavy into that curve w/o much extra effort. If not SSing Int (which is on the same curve for cost discount), though, I prob would get utility gear w/ evenly mixed cd reduction and cost discount. As far as Rec/End and not SSing them at high level- I find talents and/or just a 2ndary gear slot w/ Rec is often fine for my resting energy, but that is ofc up to taste. The main thing for most max-lvl builds is to try to lessen the amount of energy building you do by then, since it has a high opportunity cost (very low hps/dps during that time). Dex gets you extra energy via FotT, Steadfast, and Rush (from charged Dragon Uppercut), so its especially good for that issue here.. though 2 of those are a bit rng-dependent (being crit-based, which Dex also helps derive).

This is all very useful advice for me! What sort of numbers should I be shooting for in Cost Discount on my Utility gear on this guy, assuming I superstat STR/DEX/CON? I have on hand:

Heroic Helmet of Energy: +14 max energy/+19 defense/+93 cost discount/+93 cd reduction (not yet bound to this character)

I could grind for:

Heroic Helmet of Efficiency: +19 defense/+186 cost discount/+93 cd reduction

All that is before slotting any mods, of course, and I could slot a Gambler's Lucky Gem 5 for another +85 cost discount. (I know there's better gear out there, but this at least gets me started and is doable for me.)

I also have no idea what to shoot for as far as slotting for other things like Critical Strike, but I'm guessing that there's DR on Critical Strike chance and with my high DEX I'd be better off slotting for other things?

flowcyto

The max energy gear imo isn't really that great for most builds. Again, for builds w/o Int SS and no cost discount on specs, I'd just get gear that balances both cost discount and cd reduction- whether that be by taking 'of speed' and modding for cost discount, getting 'of efficiency' and modding for cd reduction, or just getting 'of utility' w/ both and modding for whichever is giving you better returns at that point.

For crit%: w/ Str PSS, Dex SS'd, and Dex being a gear focus, I'd prob settle on getting ur base char sheet crit to the 30-34% range and stopping around there. At some point, for example, a r4-r5 gambler's gem may only give you around 1-1.2% more total crit, and then you may want to consider other options. Regardless, w/o Dex Mastery, I would still have one crit severity boost on ur primary offensive gear. After that, if you still have free mod slots, then you could consider a diff approach and slot a sentinel's brooch to boost ur self-healing, or just slot for Offense (despite being high into its DR, it does still feed into offense and defense via Wardicator specs).

patternwalker

I just retconned and geared up this guy, and it's pretty amazing! Energy for days and very sturdy. Thanks flowcyto!

flowcyto

glad to hear its working out

patternwalker

I know this is an old thread, but I'm just coming back to the game. With the Unarmed Martial Arts changes, I know I need to retcon my favorite character, Monkey Boy. I've been using flowcyto's recommended build (copied below). It has been fantastic.

Taking the chi dimensional damage advantages isn't really in theme for the character, but if I have to do it, I will. I'd prefer keeping his current attacks if possible (I hate the One Hundred Hands animation, though I guess that might have been changed). Most importantly, I want to keep him as a decently tough character defense-wise, even if I have to sacrifice a little offense to do it. It just fits my playstyle.

Thanks so much for taking a look!

Monkey Boy - Freeform
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 15: Body and Mind (Str: 5, Int: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Righteous Fists (advantages)
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Thunderbolt Lunge (Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 8: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Inexorable Tides (Rank 2)
Level 14: Smoke Bomb (advantages)
Level 17: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Parry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Floating Butterfly)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 32: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 35: Steadfast
Level 38: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 35/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Well, if you want to avoid all the Chi/Dimensional dmg while still using Unarmed attacks, then you can still do that, though I'd have a means of putting up Demolish in there. TKicks can apply Demolish, but then you lose its dodge buff. 100Hands also can apply it, but there's innate Chi Flame aspects to that power. That leaves Elbow Slam for Demolish- maybe w/ Knee, Tides, or Backhand Chop to refresh it. Also, Dragon Uppercut is costly to spam now w/o Rush, so you prob need the Rush adv on that, or have Dragon Kick w/ Rush to fuel it.

Assuming you also want to be relatively sturdy, this will be less dps, but w/e:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 15: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Righteous Fists (advantages)
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Form of the Tempest (advantages)
Level 11: Steadfast
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Elbow Slam (Falling Hammer)
Level 20: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Floating Butterfly)
Level 23: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Dragon Rush)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 29: Parry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Inexorable Tides (Rank 2, Flowing Strikes)
Level 38: Smoke Bomb (advantages)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2)

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

The reworked Form of the Master would be more reliable here on some attacks, though it won't proc on Shuriken Storm, or Tides or Elbow Slam w/o Chi effect advs (it can proc from BCR, TKick's Lithe, and Rush, though). For single-target dps, you put up Demolish w/ charged Elbow Slam, and then you can just charge-spam DU, while hitting Tides to refresh Demolish. If you need to be more defensive then you can use TKicks and/or Shuriken Storm w/ BCR/RR running. Gears mostly for Dex, w/ some Con.

Prob a more optimal single-target dps version that still doesn't use Dimensional dmg would take Demolish's adv on TKicks (so no more dodge buff from it), R3 on DU, and get Dragon Kick w/ R2 + Rush (so Rush doesn't take away from getting DU to R3). Then you don't need something like Elbow Slam either. You could still have a Demolish refresh (like Tide's w/ adv here), but its not high priority either since you could just refresh w/ TKicks then. Unstoppable's extra energy on knock (instead of using WotW for its dodge boosts) could also help w/ energy if using DU and Tides.

patternwalker

Thanks so much, flowcyto. How different would the build look if I took the Chi effect advantages? And how much better/easier would it be? I'm willing to go that route if need be.

flowcyto

Well, you'd then prob want to put Dragon Rush on a diff attack, since its a 3 pt adv and it + the 1 pt spectral/ghostly adv means the Rush attack can only be at R1 in power. Also depends if you want ur main ST attack to be DU or BCF. You could still keep the backbone of FotT + Steadfast, though FotTiger, FotM, and Chi Manip could also work (and potentially be less rng prone). Also depends if you want to still keep TKicks and/or Shuriken Storm (adding something like Dragon Kick means you have to take something out).

patternwalker

I played with it some more. I switched to Burning Chi Fist to take better advantage of Demolish and gave up on Dragon Uppercut altogether. I'm not sure about Elbow Slam's short lunge, but I'm willing to give it a try. Is there a good way to address flyers? I'm spoiled by Thunderbolt Lunge with Nailed to the Ground. Whoops, just tried it in the Powerhouse and I don't like Elbow Slam. I moved some things around to get Demolish another way.

As it stands now I've got Thundering Kicks to set up Demolish, fast crits, and the dodges, Burning Chi Fist for the finisher (taking advantage of Demolish), and Inexorable Tides to refresh Demolish and provide some AoE. (Shuriken Storm is mostly for lots of low level mobs.)

So my questions:

1) Should I drop Floating Lotus Blossom in TKicks? I like the dodge it provides, but Rank 2 would be nice too because I use TKicks a lot.

2) I like Inexorable Tides because it's a click with some mitigation that's easy to drop in my attacks now and then. But I don't really need to refresh Demolish because I use TKicks a lot, so would I be better off taking Dragon Kick with the Avoidance advantage? Or I could just drop the Flowing Strikes adv. and take Instep Crush or Rank 3.

This is where I am now:

Monkey Boy 6.1 Tbolt Lunge - Freeform
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 21: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Righteous Fists (advantages)
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Floating Lotus Blossom, Demolishing Strikes)
Level 6: Way of the Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Form of the Tempest (advantages)
Level 11: Steadfast
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Parry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Shuriken Storm (Rank 2, Floating Butterfly)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 26: Burning Chi Fist (Rank 2, Shattering Strike)
Level 29: Inexorable Tides (Rank 2, Flowing Strikes)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 38: Smoke Bomb (advantages)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Well, getting the Demolish adv gets rid of TKick's Lithe (base dodge) buff, so if you still wanted a partly defensive function for TKicks then you'd keep the Lotus Blossom adv. R2 is better for dps on it, yea.

As for Tides, I may consider just replacing it w/ Dragon Kick w/ R2 + the Dragon Rush adv. R2 will still boost its stun and dmg, while you can use Rush to help you spam BCF (or continue to spam Dragon Kick in AoE). You can also do more dps w/ BCF by getting its 1-pt ghostly adv as well- after the 1st BCF you'll have Chi Flame up on the target, and Chi Flame greatly boosts the Dimensional portion for any BCF hits after that. If you need more adv points, you can give up NttG on the lunge, or maybe take points from the lesser-used travel power.