This event is a lot more fun when you have more people participate.
It is. But we always have the CO open world problem; success is dependent on certain people turning up, and those people are increasingly occupied elsewhere.
I don't need Jerlock to show up every time. All that's needed is a team of up to 50 people who can deal 30M damage to the Megas in under 20 minutes. That's less than 1M per person, if you have more than 30 people.
It works nicely now for low level players. That's been really good to see. Word hasn't got out, though, which is a shame. Difficulty scaling at 40, though.... different matter.
Also you don't even need to be high level to participate. I can reliably get scores over 350k using low 20s characters with junk gear.
Well, you say that....but the group needs a tank. Several reasonable ones, or the whole thing falls apart. They're a bit thin on the ground because most players, without prompting otherwise, tend to make fairly flimsy hybrid/DPS toons who can't take aggro. And why shouldn't they? The game play encourages it. And there's the problem. What's needed to make CO events and end game work is a different skill set to the rest of the game, and there aren't many places to learn it.
Many of us have expected at least a few people to have stepped up to the plate by now. Not all of us can hold the hands of every player in the game forever,
I sympathise. But it's all a bit circular, as problems go. If there are worthwhile rewards, then everyone comes off the mountain to claim them and lower power/skill players just need to be in the right zone and awake, and bingo!. If there are no rewards, then everyone stands back and does something else. Either way, there's not much learning or improving taking place and the community as a whole becomes a bit co-dependent.
Cool. Now, how do I see the animations through the fog of effects covering the Mega-Ds?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Or... you can play pass the aggro and skip the tank. Tsin'xing in particular manages to attract their attention periodically despite being ranged DPS. When that happens I sit on block until they target someone else.
Cool. Now, how do I see the animations through the fog of effects covering the Mega-Ds?
My single greatest wish for any piece of technology is a "turn that **** off" button. Especially in CO. Fair play to the devs - they have turned the FX down on most large monsters - but it's still a nightmare if you're a melee DPS standing next to Multiple Aura Man...
Or... you can play pass the aggro and skip the tank. Tsin'xing in particular manages to attract their attention periodically despite being ranged DPS. When that happens I sit on block until they target someone else.
Threat management.... that's something which passes most people by, tbh. Again, it's not something which comes up in levelling content so most people don't consider it in their build.
This event is a lot more fun when you have more people participate.
It is. But we always have the CO open world problem; success is dependent on certain people turning up, and those people are increasingly occupied elsewhere.
I don't need Jerlock to show up every time. All that's needed is a team of up to 50 people who can deal 30M damage to the Megas in under 20 minutes. That's less than 1M per person, if you have more than 30 people.
So that's... 833 dps per person? Well that's if you wanna finish it at exactly the last second.
Threat management.... that's something which passes most people by, tbh. Again, it's not something which comes up in levelling content so most people don't consider it in their build.
Grabs are leveling content, and from the number of people I've seen complain that they're always pulling aggro, I think threat management does very much come up in that content. Further proof that Grabs are better for educating players in important concepts than open world missionary work.
What I do isn't part of the BUILD, it's in how I play the character, not the build.
Well, if I had a proper criticism of CO (and I love the game, as much as I criticise it) it's that all the enthusiam and imagination has gone into attack, not defence. There are loads of brilliant attacks with wonderful FX that do great damage and which inspire character building.... and defence seems to come parcelled out, so that you have to take what works rather than what you can be enthusiastic about.
This event is a lot more fun when you have more people participate.It is. But we always have the CO open world problem; success is dependent on certain people turning up, and those people are increasingly occupied elsewhere.
I don't need Jerlock to show up every time. All that's needed is a team of up to 50 people who can deal 30M damage to the Megas in under 20 minutes. That's less than 1M per person, if you have more than 30 people.
So that's... 833 dps per person? Well that's if you wanna finish it at exactly the last second.
Also since you won't actually be able to attack constantly you'd need more like 1000.
Grabs are leveling content, and from the number of people I've seen complain that they're always pulling aggro, I think threat management does very much come up in that content.
It does, but the general method of coping with it is die/respawn, rather than work out the issue. That's what's expected. If you try playing a Soldier AT, where you'll pull aggro from any Alert boss not occupied with a dedicated tank, you'll see what I mean; people get after you for using cover and hiding to break aggro and attacks... they expect you to die, Mr Bond, not use tactics.
I played a Soldier AT for a very long time. Inferno too! Among others. I was silver for many years you know o3o
And sure, occasionally someone got on my butt cause I didn't just stand there and take it when I got aggro. However more often than not they had no reason to get on my case because I didn't just aoe my butt off like a wild fool and would often pick NPCs apart one by one, only switching to AOE to finish off the last few mobs in a group - or if there was a good tank, then I would aoe a lot more. Especially effective on a Soldier. I guess that's the first thing people would learn.... think before you push a button, and don't just go all out topgundpsshirtlessvolleyball on everything. People didn't seem to mind it when I LOS'd the bosses... then again I didn't just drag them all over the map while melee had to chase them - you're supposed to drag them in tight circles you see o3o
I mean sure you can just run in, mash SMG Burst, die, respawn, run in, mash SMG Burst, die, respawn.... repeat... and I mean shoot, some people might actually enjoy that to the point that they never feel the need to break that cycle. I get the feeling that there are some people tho who find the constant respawning annoying and will seek to change things by trying different tactics. Sure, the game doesn't tell you to do that, but I think if it beat you over the head with such simple concepts that would count as some pretty egregious hand holding.
See the respawning in alerts is good - it's basically a training tool. You let the player fail and try again over and over and over, and with each iteration there's a chance that they'll try to figure out how to not do that. That way by the time they're 40 they're ready for content that removes the training wheels.
Cool. Now, how do I see the animations through the fog of effects covering the Mega-Ds?
Why do you need to see the animations? Just look for the bubbles. I can see them and I play on the lowest settings possible, on a Surface, at pretty low FPS. Anyone should be able to spot them.
Also since you won't actually be able to attack constantly you'd need more like 1000.
DPS takes "not attacking" into consideration, depending on how you look at it. Take the parses at the cosmics, for instance. At the end of the encounter, you could have 2000 DPS. That doesn't mean that you did 2000 damage each second, but rather the average amount of damage you do in the entire fight.
My point was that once you see the bubbles, you're getting hit. It's too late to escape. And if you're using a vehicle at the time, there's your one-shot, especially if you got hit by a yellow bubble just before two blue ones. (Remember what I said about Chaingang's Wasp?) You don't have to be AFK, just in a position where blocking isn't a thing you can do.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
My point was that once you see the bubbles, you're getting hit. It's too late to escape. And if you're using a vehicle at the time, there's your one-shot, especially if you got hit by a yellow bubble just before two blue ones. (Remember what I said about Chaingang's Wasp?) You don't have to be AFK, just in a position where blocking isn't a thing you can do.
Is there a reason you're confined to the vehicle, then? Sure, if you're in a vehicle then you're basically one-shot, but if you're not, and you block early enough, you'll be just fine. Even my level 10 with generic block can easily survive.
So far this event has taught me one thing; people just make up excuses for not bothering to do basic things. Even vehicles have a block power, sure might take up one of your precious powers you are not using anyways but claiming the wireframe bubble gives you little time to react is just bogus on all levels.
So far this event has taught me one thing; people just make up excuses for not bothering to do basic things. Even vehicles have a block power, sure might take up one of your precious powers you are not using anyways but claiming the wireframe bubble gives you little time to react is just bogus on all levels.
Okay, champ, that's a load. The closest the Wasp has to a "block" power is something that claims to increase your Dodge - except that it has never helped me dodge anything. At all. And so far as I can tell, the bubbles cannot be dodged - recall again about my exploding over RenCen while trying to flee?
My poor lvl 26 toon is actually more survivable on the ground, which would be great if I could actually do any significant amount of damage that way.
So far, discussing this with you has taught me one thing - you don't want to hear anything you don't already believe. (It's also made me suspect you never run these events with anything less than a 40, and have a rather snobbish and condescending attitude toward anyone gauche enough to be lower than that.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
My point was that once you see the bubbles, you're getting hit. It's too late to escape. And if you're using a vehicle at the time, there's your one-shot, especially if you got hit by a yellow bubble just before two blue ones. (Remember what I said about Chaingang's Wasp?) You don't have to be AFK, just in a position where blocking isn't a thing you can do.
Is there a reason you're confined to the vehicle, then? Sure, if you're in a vehicle then you're basically one-shot, but if you're not, and you block early enough, you'll be just fine. Even my level 10 with generic block can easily survive.
When you don't fly, dismounting from high in the air is, shall we say, uncomfortable. I was using the vehicle because Chaingang's attacks don't really seem to do a lot to the giant mechanical monsters, while the Heavy Cannon I mounted on the Wasp actually seems to help.
And while Chaingang's block can help when he's on the ground, as was demonstrated in yesterday's run it doesn't work well when he's been paralyzed by a yellow bubble he missed because Captain WowLookAtAllMyAuras was standing next to him, then gets hit by a double blue bubble.
Basic point here is that, unless you're running a 40 with high-level gear, getting one-shotted by these things does not mean "you must have been AFK"; it happens quite easily to some people even when they are paying attention. And crapping out elitist statements like that certainly isn't going to persuade people who haven't played this year to give it a try. (I've run into several who remember the slaughterfest during the run-up to Mechanon, when even the very best players were getting smashed into the ground by the Mega-Ds, and even with a cap of 100 only one or two zones could finish. They figure why even try it ever again? Which contributes heavily to the current "only one zone finishes", because even with the adjustments, three or four heroes are not going to clear the Mega-Ds in time, and it's hard to get more than that involved in most zones.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Wait... you're using a Wasp with the default gear? O_o' I'm not sure if any vehicle is more squishy than a Wasp. It certainly looks cool and flies really fast, but it can't really take a hit.
Anniversary Destroid Open Mission • Mechanon joins the fight! • Reduced the amount of health the Mega Destroids have to 4 million (from 5). • Increased the time limit to 30 minutes (from 20). • Increased the health, durability and damage output of the Champions to aid players. • Reduced the cap of the Mechanon Upgrade buff that Destroids can get to 25 (from 50) • Reduced the amount of health the Destroids get boosted by if Liberated.
Time to layeth the smack down!
Question: can you use knocks to force the spiders away from the Megas?
You're very good at making excuses for why you can't do things, I'll give you that.
And you're very good at looking only for the points you'd like to rebut. Must make those straw men a lot easier to fill.
If you'll take a moment to read, Spinny, you'll see that I have been doing things. What I was attempting to say, I thought quite clearly, was that champ's claim that you can only get one-shotted during this event "if you're AFK" was not accurate. Players have been one-shotted. I've been one-shotted. Now, unlike some, that doesn't stop me - the death penalties in this game are almost as trivial as the ones in STO, and at least I can recover somewhere less than a mile away from the fight, so I just power up and head back out. But that does not mean it doesn't happen, and it doesn't mean I was AFK at the time - often, it means that either I just plain didn't see the wire-frame, or I was charging up an attack and praying I'd get it off before the robots' AoE went off. (Usually, I can, but obviously not always.)
The question was raised as to why so many people seem to be ignoring the Mega-D invasion. I was citing a few reasons. I'm not ignoring it, because a) that doesn't seem a very heroic thing to do, and b) I've been in on several wins, which always feels nice. (The rewards are pretty trivial, but so what?) On the other tentacle, it doesn't feel very heroic to be the only super facing down six giant robots - it feels more like suicidal, because given the time limit there's no possible way to win. If I wanted to run the Kobayashi Maru, I'd join Starfleet.
So, for those who have been sitting out the event for the reasons I cited - to the Qliphoth with that noise! None of it matters in the least! Gather at Homestead just before the hour, and send those stupid bots back where they came from en masse! Anyone (at least anyone who's level 10, and that takes almost no time to reach) can help, the more the merrier, and if you're worried about falling in combat, take a moment to run between the buildings immediately east - there's a spawn point you can claim there, so you can get right back into things. There's nothing magical about Zone One - any zone can win, but you have to be willing to try!
And if the elitists are getting you down, try either putting them on Ignore or just shutting down Chat. (I recommend the Ignore method, as sometimes people say useful things in Chat. Not often, admittedly, but it does happen...)
Now, for the rest of you, who have been running every hour you can - try not talking down to the noobs. You were a noob once yourself, and for some of you it wasn't all that long ago. Not everyone has memorized every move that every mob makes; not everyone has a PBAoE attack to get those frigging regular-sized Destroids off their butts (you know, the ones that can stun and immobilize you by hitting you in the head with their rifles, with no tell first); and some folks are running ATs and don't have a self-heal. Help them out. Tell them about Karneeki the Magnificent, and the healing items he sells for pretty doggone cheap. Don't mock them when they die - you don't feel great when it happens either, and making fun of them just makes them not want to play any more. (Can't speak for some of y'all, obviously, but I feel safe in saying that most of us get enough of that from RL, we don't need it in our games.) Basically, apply Wheaton's Law. You might be surprised how much more fun that makes things.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Answers
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Also you don't even need to be high level to participate. I can reliably get scores over 350k using low 20s characters with junk gear.
Well, you say that....but the group needs a tank. Several reasonable ones, or the whole thing falls apart. They're a bit thin on the ground because most players, without prompting otherwise, tend to make fairly flimsy hybrid/DPS toons who can't take aggro. And why shouldn't they? The game play encourages it. And there's the problem. What's needed to make CO events and end game work is a different skill set to the rest of the game, and there aren't many places to learn it.
Many of us have expected at least a few people to have stepped up to the plate by now. Not all of us can hold the hands of every player in the game forever,
I sympathise. But it's all a bit circular, as problems go. If there are worthwhile rewards, then everyone comes off the mountain to claim them and lower power/skill players just need to be in the right zone and awake, and bingo!. If there are no rewards, then everyone stands back and does something else. Either way, there's not much learning or improving taking place and the community as a whole becomes a bit co-dependent.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My single greatest wish for any piece of technology is a "turn that **** off" button. Especially in CO. Fair play to the devs - they have turned the FX down on most large monsters - but it's still a nightmare if you're a melee DPS standing next to Multiple Aura Man...
Or... you can play pass the aggro and skip the tank. Tsin'xing in particular manages to attract their attention periodically despite being ranged DPS. When that happens I sit on block until they target someone else.
Threat management.... that's something which passes most people by, tbh. Again, it's not something which comes up in levelling content so most people don't consider it in their build.
Also.... The "fog of effects" is part of why zone cap is 50 now for this event. this way there's less of that.
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I can see them just fine, even up close, so I got no help for ya beyond "Look with your eyes!"
Grabs are leveling content, and from the number of people I've seen complain that they're always pulling aggro, I think threat management does very much come up in that content. Further proof that Grabs are better for educating players in important concepts than open world missionary work.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, if I had a proper criticism of CO (and I love the game, as much as I criticise it) it's that all the enthusiam and imagination has gone into attack, not defence. There are loads of brilliant attacks with wonderful FX that do great damage and which inspire character building.... and defence seems to come parcelled out, so that you have to take what works rather than what you can be enthusiastic about.
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My characters
It does, but the general method of coping with it is die/respawn, rather than work out the issue. That's what's expected. If you try playing a Soldier AT, where you'll pull aggro from any Alert boss not occupied with a dedicated tank, you'll see what I mean; people get after you for using cover and hiding to break aggro and attacks... they expect you to die, Mr Bond, not use tactics.
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And sure, occasionally someone got on my butt cause I didn't just stand there and take it when I got aggro. However more often than not they had no reason to get on my case because I didn't just aoe my butt off like a wild fool and would often pick NPCs apart one by one, only switching to AOE to finish off the last few mobs in a group - or if there was a good tank, then I would aoe a lot more. Especially effective on a Soldier. I guess that's the first thing people would learn.... think before you push a button, and don't just go all out topgundpsshirtlessvolleyball on everything. People didn't seem to mind it when I LOS'd the bosses... then again I didn't just drag them all over the map while melee had to chase them - you're supposed to drag them in tight circles you see o3o
I mean sure you can just run in, mash SMG Burst, die, respawn, run in, mash SMG Burst, die, respawn.... repeat... and I mean shoot, some people might actually enjoy that to the point that they never feel the need to break that cycle. I get the feeling that there are some people tho who find the constant respawning annoying and will seek to change things by trying different tactics. Sure, the game doesn't tell you to do that, but I think if it beat you over the head with such simple concepts that would count as some pretty egregious hand holding.
See the respawning in alerts is good - it's basically a training tool. You let the player fail and try again over and over and over, and with each iteration there's a chance that they'll try to figure out how to not do that. That way by the time they're 40 they're ready for content that removes the training wheels.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Granted Champions does not have the same respawn mechanic, which is good, because the one in D2 sucks.
thus I come to this game with the general idea that if I have to respawn I probably did something wrong.
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My poor lvl 26 toon is actually more survivable on the ground, which would be great if I could actually do any significant amount of damage that way.
So far, discussing this with you has taught me one thing - you don't want to hear anything you don't already believe. (It's also made me suspect you never run these events with anything less than a 40, and have a rather snobbish and condescending attitude toward anyone gauche enough to be lower than that.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And while Chaingang's block can help when he's on the ground, as was demonstrated in yesterday's run it doesn't work well when he's been paralyzed by a yellow bubble he missed because Captain WowLookAtAllMyAuras was standing next to him, then gets hit by a double blue bubble.
Basic point here is that, unless you're running a 40 with high-level gear, getting one-shotted by these things does not mean "you must have been AFK"; it happens quite easily to some people even when they are paying attention. And crapping out elitist statements like that certainly isn't going to persuade people who haven't played this year to give it a try. (I've run into several who remember the slaughterfest during the run-up to Mechanon, when even the very best players were getting smashed into the ground by the Mega-Ds, and even with a cap of 100 only one or two zones could finish. They figure why even try it ever again? Which contributes heavily to the current "only one zone finishes", because even with the adjustments, three or four heroes are not going to clear the Mega-Ds in time, and it's hard to get more than that involved in most zones.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Question: can you use knocks to force the spiders away from the Megas?
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If you'll take a moment to read, Spinny, you'll see that I have been doing things. What I was attempting to say, I thought quite clearly, was that champ's claim that you can only get one-shotted during this event "if you're AFK" was not accurate. Players have been one-shotted. I've been one-shotted. Now, unlike some, that doesn't stop me - the death penalties in this game are almost as trivial as the ones in STO, and at least I can recover somewhere less than a mile away from the fight, so I just power up and head back out. But that does not mean it doesn't happen, and it doesn't mean I was AFK at the time - often, it means that either I just plain didn't see the wire-frame, or I was charging up an attack and praying I'd get it off before the robots' AoE went off. (Usually, I can, but obviously not always.)
The question was raised as to why so many people seem to be ignoring the Mega-D invasion. I was citing a few reasons. I'm not ignoring it, because a) that doesn't seem a very heroic thing to do, and b) I've been in on several wins, which always feels nice. (The rewards are pretty trivial, but so what?) On the other tentacle, it doesn't feel very heroic to be the only super facing down six giant robots - it feels more like suicidal, because given the time limit there's no possible way to win. If I wanted to run the Kobayashi Maru, I'd join Starfleet.
So, for those who have been sitting out the event for the reasons I cited - to the Qliphoth with that noise! None of it matters in the least! Gather at Homestead just before the hour, and send those stupid bots back where they came from en masse! Anyone (at least anyone who's level 10, and that takes almost no time to reach) can help, the more the merrier, and if you're worried about falling in combat, take a moment to run between the buildings immediately east - there's a spawn point you can claim there, so you can get right back into things. There's nothing magical about Zone One - any zone can win, but you have to be willing to try!
And if the elitists are getting you down, try either putting them on Ignore or just shutting down Chat. (I recommend the Ignore method, as sometimes people say useful things in Chat. Not often, admittedly, but it does happen...)
Now, for the rest of you, who have been running every hour you can - try not talking down to the noobs. You were a noob once yourself, and for some of you it wasn't all that long ago. Not everyone has memorized every move that every mob makes; not everyone has a PBAoE attack to get those frigging regular-sized Destroids off their butts (you know, the ones that can stun and immobilize you by hitting you in the head with their rifles, with no tell first); and some folks are running ATs and don't have a self-heal. Help them out. Tell them about Karneeki the Magnificent, and the healing items he sells for pretty doggone cheap. Don't mock them when they die - you don't feel great when it happens either, and making fun of them just makes them not want to play any more. (Can't speak for some of y'all, obviously, but I feel safe in saying that most of us get enough of that from RL, we don't need it in our games.) Basically, apply Wheaton's Law. You might be surprised how much more fun that makes things.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!