Regular/Frequent "State of the Game"

handofkain

Cryptic,
I would like to request an increase in the frequency and regularity of your "State of the Game" announcements. These announcements are integral in keeping the community engaged and informed, not to mentioned excited. We, the players, need to know what you, the developers, are working on and what is coming in the near future. The last "State of the Game" announcement we received from you was back in April! This is far too long to go without an update on what you all are working on and what we can look forward to next. I love what you have been doing with the game in recent months and would like to applaud and encourage you for bringing in a breath of fresh air to CO which has sat stagnant for too long. But without regular, and frequent, communication from you about what is coming next, players who have long seen their game neglected can easily slip back into a pessimistic mindset. I am sure there will be a good percentage of replies to this thread informing me of how "dead" champions is and how you, as the developers, have abandoned it. I see the work that has been done since the start of the year and I notice a marked increase n development. I have faith that my favorite game is starting to get the attention is deserves and I am over the moon. With that being said, please let us know what is coming up and what you are working on more frequently. Once a month would be great. But three months since the last update is too long. Thank you for taking the time to read this and keep up the good work.

-Mike

jonsills

There's a good reason for that. When they did regular, frequent updates, they'd often discuss with us upcoming plans, noting that said plans were always subject to change. And when the plans failed to come to fruition (as with the Foundry, which proved to be far too difficult and expensive to code), or did so differently than originally planned (the first update of Heavy Weapon skins), the forums immediately exploded into a froth of claims that we the players were being "lied to" and "defrauded", because some people hear the phrase "we'd like to do this sometime in the future" and immediately translate that as "this is guaranteed to be a new feature within the next two to three months".

And then there's the vocal contingent that will call the devs "liars" by denying the value of anything that has been accomplished. To hear some folk tell it, there's been nothing of any significance added to the game since Vibora Bay, and I've heard a couple of people deny even that much advance.

Basically, there's no percentage in State of the Game updates around here.​​

nepht

They would get hijacked by aliens screaming about when where they going to fix peeveepee.

sterga

I'd say your best bet into learning about future things coming to CO is to schmooze with Kai or get yourself into the chat channel she keeps sharing development info in.

"When they did regular, frequent updates, they'd often discuss with us upcoming plans, noting that said plans were always subject to change. And when the plans failed to come to fruition [...]"

If the devs were constantly saying they'd like to do stuff and that stuff never happened, then players should call devs on their inability to get things done. It's a terrible reason not to communicate with the entire community. First step is actually coming up with a reasonable plan that isn't "stuff the current dev (team?) wants to throw into the game". We have enough abandoned project in CO.

ealford1985

She doesn't share development info in chat.

decorumfriends

sterga said:

If the devs were constantly saying they'd like to do stuff and that stuff never happened, then players should call devs on their inability to get things done.

No, they shouldn't. That's exactly what makes them not want to talk, people using State of the Game as nothing more than something to pick apart and **** about.

markhawkman

Yeah, the STO devs were the same way. They used to say a lot of stuff about unfinished plans... but people used it as an excuse to rage.

For example: during the lead up to LoR they were apparently at one point planning to make Suliban available as part of the Romulan Republic.

Also, at one point they referred to the Republic aliens as "Hybrids" and were planning to make them unavailable to non subscribers. Which would have been unique since the plan was not to restrict them to LTS(Romulan Borg are there for that) but all gold players.

But that got dropped and the devs never explained what the concept was that would have made them different.

biffsmackwell

Bunch of us told them to go wild, post any kind of plans they had, even if they had a big chance of not panning out. The more mature of us were like "that's cool, we get it" when stuff didn't pan out. The immature raged, and they outnumbered us.

Well, we tried.

roughbearmattach

I'm reminded of how sometimes young students I work with equate "change of mind" with "lie".
It isn't worth the headache.

sterga

"No, they shouldn't. That's exactly what makes them not want to talk, people using State of the Game as nothing more than something to pick apart and **** about."

"People are mean" isn't a good reason not to make plans and actually stick to them.

aesica

biffsmackwell said:

Bunch of us told them to go wild, post any kind of plans they had, even if they had a big chance of not panning out.

I can see why that might grind to a halt. Sharing "BIG IDEAS!" with players is setting oneself up to be screamed to about lying, exaggerating, breaking promises, and just about any other negative thing you can think of.

handofkain

This saddens me greatly. It is always a shame when the immature minority is so vocal and divisive when confronted with perfectly reasonable changes to the game's design plan that the devs feel it would be better to leave the whole community in the dark. An active communication channel between the developers and the community is vital for a healthy and successful MMO. If the devs truly want to revitalize CO, they need to engage the community. One of the best ways to do that is to let us know what is currently in development.

Another way is to seek out opinions (not like those are rare here 8-0 ) on what content the player base likes and would like to see more of. I for one (told you opinions were easy to find) would love to see more Comic Series! Those are my favorite content of the game and CO needs more of them!

If only we, the community, as a whole, could be more understanding of dev changes and plans that don't pan out. We might actually be able to know what is planned for the game we love so much!

jaazaniah1

I'd wager that, at this point in staffing and budget, they probably have a reasonable idea of what they will be releasing a month (maybe 2 months?) in advance. Some sort of monthly SotG providing some sort of promo for certain releases seems doable. E.g. if they know they will be releasing a follow up to the nightmare invasion around Halloween (just as an example) they could promo that in early October. They could even put caveats in the SotGs that a release date may have to be pushed back or even cancelled so that they cover themselves in case something happens to prevent a release on time (or, hopefully not, at all).

chaelk

if they say the date has been changed, people **** about incompetence, if they push it out on schedule with bugs, the same people **** about incompetence.
As for the not happen at all, see all the bitching in the last Until feild report, which went on for THREE years(until someone finally thought to close it), about "you said we would be getting this, why haven't we got it."

---

ok, if plans change isn't good enough. How about, we keep getting new trainee devs, who after they prove themselves competent, get transferred to the other 2 games..​​

decorumfriends

sterga said:

"No, they shouldn't. That's exactly what makes them not want to talk, people using State of the Game as nothing more than something to pick apart and **** about."

"People are mean" isn't a good reason not to make plans and actually stick to them.

"Tell us what you're planning to do, but only if you're absolutely concrete about it, or we'll call you a liar."

It's not "people are mean", it's "people are stupid and take every vague reference as if it were a contract". They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

handofkain

I believe there are several ways around this. One being disabling the comments for their State of the Game and UNTIL Reports. This would deny the detractors their platform on which to complain but it would also deny those of us who are more understanding a way to let the Devs know we appreciate what they are doing. One could argue that the suggestion forum is the appropriate place for all of these comments.

Another option is send out the State of the Game and UNTIL Reports as emails instead of forum posts. This would eliminate user responses. Not the most convenient or preferred way to handle this but, then again, the situation is certainly less than ideal.

I think we can all agree that it would preferable to receive the SotG and UNTIL Reports here in the forums. That being said, there are ways around those that would take such an opportunity to complain and accuse. I just want to know what is coming so I can be excited and anticipate the arrival of new content rather than being left in the dark.

darqaura2

handofkain said:

I believe there are several ways around this. One being disabling the comments for their State of the Game and UNTIL Reports. This would deny the detractors their platform on which to complain but it would also deny those of us who are more understanding a way to let the Devs know we appreciate what they are doing. One could argue that the suggestion forum is the appropriate place for all of these comments.

Another option is send out the State of the Game and UNTIL Reports as emails instead of forum posts. This would eliminate user responses. Not the most convenient or preferred way to handle this but, then again, the situation is certainly less than ideal.

I think we can all agree that it would preferable to receive the SotG and UNTIL Reports here in the forums. That being said, there are ways around those that would take such an opportunity to complain and accuse. I just want to know what is coming so I can be excited and anticipate the arrival of new content rather than being left in the dark.

I would say they should only do a State of the Game/UNTIL/whatevs they want to call it, when they have something substantial to tell us.

Bug fixes for Forum Malv, yeah no I don't need to know about that ahead of time, as to me that is just maintenance work.

The total rework and improvement of various powers they did recently (with a total change to make Tanking a bit easier!!!), sure that's good for a more frequent report.

I don't need to know if they plan to move some decimal points one to two months from now.

New content, rebalances, powers, etc. Sure.

Also if plans change, people need to accept it and be mature about it. I would prefer if it remained a locked thread on the forums. All other methods seem inconvenient and like more work for an already stressed team.

biffsmackwell

handofkain said:

I believe there are several ways around this. One being disabling the comments for their State of the Game and UNTIL Reports. This would deny the detractors their platform on which to complain but it would also deny those of us who are more understanding a way to let the Devs know we appreciate what they are doing. One could argue that the suggestion forum is the appropriate place for all of these comments.

Another option is send out the State of the Game and UNTIL Reports as emails instead of forum posts. This would eliminate user responses. Not the most convenient or preferred way to handle this but, then again, the situation is certainly less than ideal.

I think we can all agree that it would preferable to receive the SotG and UNTIL Reports here in the forums. That being said, there are ways around those that would take such an opportunity to complain and accuse. I just want to know what is coming so I can be excited and anticipate the arrival of new content rather than being left in the dark.

This wouldn't work because those threads are not the only ones people bitched in. Any thread that grumpy people who don't know the difference between "idea" and "promise" comment on, they'll bring up the "Cryptic are liars" crap as long as the info is out there, somewhere.

darqaura2

I think the way Kai recently did it is fine though.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1205146/champions-online-state-of-the-game-4-29-2016

She posted a link to a blog post in a locked forum post and that blog post had no comment ability on it.

I think that should work just fine.

biffsmackwell

Yeah but look at the content. They completely played it safe by posting what's already been done, what's already being worked on (so there's no doubt it'll go live at that point), and even safer stuff like "more costumes and lockboxes!"

I mean, I'm fine with that state of the game 100%, not criticizing at all. But previous states and reports went much further into the future, especially with the whole "these things are totally subject to change" part.

darqaura2

biffsmackwell said:

Yeah but look at the content. They completely played it safe by posting what's already been done, what's already being worked on (so there's no doubt it'll go live at that point), and even safer stuff like "more costumes and lockboxes!"



I mean, I'm fine with that state of the game 100%, not criticizing at all. But previous states and reports went much further into the future, especially with the whole "these things are totally subject to change" part.

True. Though I'm not really sure how far they can really go depending on resources they may have working on various points.

For instance, if they are using an Agile methodology they may work on multiple things that eventually can come together at some point. But until those multiple parts (art assets, sound assets and voice over work, UI work, programming for scripts for in mission/events, etc) come together or are close to, they may not be able to put even a "possible date on things".

But I do get your point about them playing it safe.

spinnytop

jonsills said:

There's a good reason for that. When they did regular, frequent updates, they'd often discuss with us upcoming plans, noting that said plans were always subject to change. And when the plans failed to come to fruition (as with the Foundry, which proved to be far too difficult and expensive to code), or did so differently than originally planned (the first update of Heavy Weapon skins), the forums immediately exploded into a froth of claims that we the players were being "lied to" and "defrauded", because some people hear the phrase "we'd like to do this sometime in the future" and immediately translate that as "this is guaranteed to be a new feature within the next two to three months".



And then there's the vocal contingent that will call the devs "liars" by denying the value of anything that has been accomplished. To hear some folk tell it, there's been nothing of any significance added to the game since Vibora Bay, and I've heard a couple of people deny even that much advance.



Basically, there's no percentage in State of the Game updates around here.​​

Oh good, Jon already said it so I don't have to.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

I'm reminded of how sometimes young students I work with equate "change of mind" with "lie".
It isn't worth the headache.

Maybe that's why some people are so loathe to change their minds about things nowadays.

handofkain said:

If the devs truly want to revitalize CO, they need to engage the community. One of the best ways to do that is to let us know what is currently in development.

PTS. Lets us know literally exactly what is currently in development and even have a hand in shaping it, within reason. I don't need to know what their plans for the future are, I'm content knowing what's right around the corner.

rebornmonster79

The state of the game is overcast. But for real who knows I've not actually logged in for couple months little reason to as an Archtype. Look at that I put the actual word not lazy hehe.

biffsmackwell

Yeah but you spelled it wrong.

rebornmonster79

Aha that I did good catch Bifficus.