Aribter Mastery/Honor Synergy

beerbane

I'm looking at Warden/Arbiter for a combo-oriented melee build, and I was wondering if anyone using the Arbiter spec tree noticed if Arbiter Mastery can proc Honor? Or does Honor only work with directly targeted heals/shields? I'm also going to have Absorb Heat going - which I would hope would also build stacks of Honor? Thoughts? Confirmations? Condemnations?

flowcyto

Unfortunately, Honor doesn't proc from Arbiter Mastery, from my testing w/ pets in the Battle Station. One of the reasons Arbiter is kinda weak atm.

beerbane

Thanks for the reply. I guess the better question would be what DOES work for Honor? Sounds like it's direct heals/HoTs only, even though I would love if ancillary heals like Sentinel Aura/Mend from Illumination/Chained Healing from Celestial Conduit/etc could proc the thing.

flowcyto

The only passive heal auras I've found that work w/ Honor (when healing allies) are Seraphim and Med Nanites.

beerbane

Thanks again - that definitely helps. Probably better to look to Honor in the Overseer tree for ranged builds and leave Arbiter alone.

superalfgorn

Just chiming in with a build that touches all the points of the discussion above.

This is for a pyromancer melee mage. It uses the combo from TKblades colored red for the fire sword in pair with the ones you can conjure from Pyromancer's blades.
Seraphim boosts the dmg from the swords and its heals constantly proc Honor whose dmg boost nicely fuels Ego Blade Breach.



PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Pyroclast Justicar (rebuilt)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Field Ops Training
Level 9: Survival Training
Level 12: Ascetic
Level 15: Jack of All Trades
Level 18: Shooter
Level 21: Academics

Powers:
Level 1: Kinetic Darts
Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Siphoning Strikes)
Level 6: Ego Blade Dash
Level 8: Seraphim (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mental Discipline (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Telekinetic Eruption (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 20: Circle of Radiant Glory (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Pyromancer's Blades (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Ego Blade Breach (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Divine Renewal

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
Constitution: Tough (3/3)
Constitution: Deflection (3/3)
Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
Arbiter: Enforcer (3/3)
Arbiter: Ruthless (2/2)
Arbiter: Rend (2/2)
Arbiter: Honor (2/2)
Arbiter: Preservation (1/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Arbiter Mastery (1/1)

beerbane

Ooooh - I like Pyroclast's build. What role are you generally running in?

superalfgorn

Since it uses Seraphim you can choose between Hybrid and Support. He uses Hybrid for the much better damage since it is damage oriented.

beerbane

Possible dumb question incoming: Is Honor from the Arbiter tree considered a separate buff from the Honor in the Overseer tree? I'm just wondering if it would possible to get twice the honor, so to speak...

flowcyto

Lasted I tested, they both can stack.

superalfgorn

I initially had both. However, the bonus might not be so significant to warrant both trees. Ususally a splash of Warden or Vindicator does wonders for DPS more than the additional 30% "additive" bonus from Honor

h4forums

Sorry to necro an old topic, but I was looking into this myself and was wondering how the honor spec works. Does each attack consume all current stacks of honor, or can you build up the 3 stacks and maintain it while attacking?

edit: mostly curious because i thought this might be worth a look with pillar of poz's healing rune, since it is click it should not be too hard to work into a combo build.

edit 2: untested, but i was thinking something like this? using melee dps role, but actually a "support" dps. void shift in, drop poz for honor, drop soul vortex for energy, spam thundering kicks to heal everyone. assuming around 15k hp, this is 450 hp heal (5 targets? 20? uncapped?) from arbiter mastery per combo finish. its very low dps, use stealth + shadowstrike whenever burst damage is needed.

single stat con arbiter mastery - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Recovery (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Predator (Str: 8, Con: 10, Dex: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Enduring (Con: 8)
Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Paramilitary Training (Str: 3, Con: 3, Rec: 3, End: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Blade Tempest
Level 1: Form of the Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Pillar of Poz
Level 14: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
Level 17: Spirit Reverberation
Level 20: Soul Vortex (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 26: Entrancing
Level 29: Vorpal Blade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Rebirth
Level 38: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 28/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35:

Specializations
Recovery: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Recovery: Staying Power (2/2)
Recovery: Super Charged (3/3)
Recovery: Second Wind (2/2)
Arbiter: Ruthless (2/2)
Arbiter: Arbiter Aura (3/3)
Arbiter: Honor (2/2)
Arbiter: Enhanced Gear (3/3)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Honor (2/2)
Overseer: Enhanced Gear (3/3)
Mastery: Arbiter Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Healing runes, from my brief testing w/ pets in the PH, don't seem to proc Honor when healing allies or you. Also, you can't make a build w/o choosing an end builder (Blade Tempest isn't one), Rec PSS isn't that great, and it would prob be better to use Steadfast or MSA (+Int SS) as the EU there anyways.

If you wanted a Hybrid melee-support w/ Honor and Arbiter Mastery, I'd prob just take Seraphim w/ TK Blades (and maybe the support drones to proc Honor when solo), or Med Nanites w/ any melee set, and use appropriate debuffs to boost combo dmg (ex. Demolish and/or Burst Shot's debuff for Crushing dmg, Shredded for Slashing, EBB and/or Mental Storm for TK Blades, etc). Honor will have a larger effect for heavy charged attacks instead of instant/combos, in any case.

Other general option is to not have to use Seraphim or MN to passively proc Honor and maybe do it via Vala's Light + MSA. Although it will lower ur dps considerably to cast healing frequently, it is good AoE healing around you.

h4forums

flowcyto said:

Healing runes, from my brief testing w/ pets in the PH, don't seem to proc Honor when healing allies or you. Also, you can't make a build w/o choosing an end builder (Blade Tempest isn't one), Rec PSS isn't that great, and it would prob be better to use Steadfast or MSA (+Int SS) as the EU there anyways.

That's too bad about the healing rune. My bad on blade tempest, yeah that would get subbed for some random end builder. I understand that the seraphim or med nanites passives work, however I wanted to use night avenger because shadow strike is such a great way for non-specialized dps builds or dps hybrids to make a meaningful contribution when burst damage is required (eg. dinosaur regen phase, eidolon green crystal). However, there still needs to be a consistent way to apply the healing to allies to proc honor. I'm assuming honor doesn't proc if you heal a full-health ally, so stuff like vala's light are no good as casting it on rotation might miss healing anyone due to dedicated healers being around. Sigh. If only arbiter mastery itself procced honor, but you've already tested that too

EDIT: Probably better to just abandon using honor entirely I guess.

flowcyto

You can proc Honor on allies already at full health. Its how you can have Honor constantly refreshing when solo w/ pets out when using MN or Seraphim, even when not in combat.

edit: here's a basic way to build around Honor and Arbiter, if ya really want it- using TK Blades and Seraphim to make a hybrid melee dps-support:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Hero (End: 6, Rec: 6, Other Stats: 8)
Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 12: Showmanship (Ego: 5, Pre: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Wordly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Lasting Impression (Pre: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Kinetic Darts
Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Telekinetic Burst (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Seraphim (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Ego Reverberation
Level 14: Compassion
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Ego Blade Annihilation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Mental Storm
Level 26: Ego Blade Dash
Level 29:
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 20/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Arbiter: Enforcer (3/3)
Arbiter: Ruthless (2/2)
Arbiter: Rend (2/2)
Arbiter: Honor (2/2)
Arbiter: Preservation (1/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Arbiter Mastery (1/1)

Last power slots can be w/e ya want for support or utility- a healing rune, Vala's, Holy torrent, CoRG, sigils, an AoE ally res, block enhancer, an AO, etc. Can't outright replace a healer, but does provide melee/tanks w/ some healing relief while still having some dps potential. 2nd spec choice is up to you- Warden is a nice mix of personal dps and defense, while things like Sentinel or Sentry are more support-oriented.

h4forums

I understand and appreciate the seraphim version, but I think it feels really forced for arbiter mastery. With the Thundering kicks (1.1 sec per combo) and single stat con, it is probably the paper maximum of arbiter master use. Compared to the seraphim version with ego blades (1.5 sec per combo) and mixed stats since you have to split ego/con to give all that ego stuff better damage. It is making an already low heal even lower. At this point, why not just have a normal tk blader with a utility heal instead

Also seraphim forces hybrid or support role, and I think arbiter mastery matches better for tank or dps role. After all, hybrids and support can use real healing spells anyway with their superstat heal bonus, while arbiter mastery's healing is con-scaled.

flowcyto

First of all, I think there's a bit of moving the goalposts here w/ this criticism - I was not focusing on Arbiter's Mastery w/ that build, as much of this talk has been about Honor anyways. Secondly, Arbiter and its Mastery already aren't a great prospect, tbh. Its more for just trying to make the spec work for a hybrid dps as a whole, while not making the spec or Mastery the entirety of the build for practical purposes. Also, TKicks may be the fastest combo, but not by a large amount, due to input lag slowing down its time more than the tooltip states. Its only a few tenths of a second faster than many other combos (1.2 vs. 1.5, but again the tooltips are a bit off in practice).

h4forums

flowcyto said:

First of all, I think there's a bit of moving the goalposts here w/ this criticism - I was not focusing on Arbiter's Mastery w/ that build, as much of this talk has been about Honor anyways. Secondly, Arbiter and its Mastery already aren't a great prospect, tbh. Its more for just trying to make the spec work for a hybrid dps as a whole, while not making the spec or Mastery the entirety of the build for practical purposes. Also, TKicks may be the fastest combo, but not by a large amount, due to input lag slowing down its time more than the tooltip states. Its only a few tenths of a second faster than many other combos (1.2 vs. 1.5, but again the tooltips are a bit off in practice).

Yeah I apologize for the moving goalposts, that was my bad. I did come into the discussion for arbiter mastery though, and only picked up onto the honor stuff out of thinking it would synergize. But since you already said they dont synergize, everything else after was just random theorycrafting with no real goal. Sorry bout that!

flowcyto

Yea its np. Ur right that for pure optimization of its frequency and procs, going w/ TKicks and Con would be good, but then you have to step back and look at the wider scope of how effective that's going to be, and/or if there's other things ur trying to accomplish with the build. The issue is a bit more that, as you've seen, there's not as much synergy there as one would hope atm.