test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Moar retcons: my Tank/Support hybrid

squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=13&n=Techno-Golem Tank/Support Hybrid&d=1563HVONPWY0000K000K80CK600KA05K900130LF40LI9002C0300000000BI00EI05QJ000tH52Jut0Zyp

The link is my current thoughts on the matter. 2 Open power slots, plenty of advantage points left. Runs in tank role.

What's changing:
-Ascension's reason for existing got killed, so it needs to be stripped out of the current build. (That's been replaced by masterful dodge).
-Added Ego Sprites. (About the only character where the change to it is beneficial, because he's going to be in the middle of things anyway).
-Had the darkness shield. The change to the advantage makes me not care for it. (Barely used it before anyway, because if this character is blocking enough to activate it regularly, he's doing something wrong). I probably do want a block, but I'm not sure which one. Maybe TK? Thoughts?
-Other current powers not included which might not make the cut: Thunderclap (mostly unused), Mindful Reinforcement (okay, considering re-adding, not tons of use, but benefits from a lot of specs).
-Superstats: Was Con/pre/int with only a single int mod. Int is... not that useful. Con's spec tree is pretty much garbage. (Took it for knock resistance. Still get knocked around like a pinball). Looked at Pre/con/rec, but Pre's spec tree isn't the greatest and i pretty much need my SS spec tree to give me a mastery i care about. (Pre's doesn't do anything for me). Ego has a lot of useful features that scale on secondary SS, has a cost-reduction spec that could make Lifedrain even more useable, and has a good mastery that makes up for the 40pts in either pre or con i'd be giving up by not having one of them as primary. (I considered Int primary, but I don't think it does enough that I care about, and the mastery isn't great for this).
-Reconsidering Sentinel spec tree. You may have noticed it only has 8 specs chosen - there's literally nothing particularly useful in the remaining specs. (Thunderclap was actually taken to get some use out of Torment - the lunge gets mostly used to apply fear and CC, rarely from far enough to stun). Of the ones that sound like they might apply to Lifedrain, afaict NONE of them do. (Moment of Need definitely doesn't, despite lifedrain being flagged as a heal. Eternal Spring i'd need to spend far too long analyzing combat logs to tell, but the individual heals aren't big enough for it to matter).

As you may have noticed, energy costs are a major build constraint. It's not just that I want to run Sparkstorm at the same time as lifedrain (although i do), it's that lifedrain is *really costly*. I've got it down to 13 initial / 10 per tick on my current build, and on a feared target with Compassion and Darkness EU that is *barely* enough to get 4s of lifedrain while sparkstorm runs. That's one of the things that makes Ego an attractive spec tree.

That makes Arbiter the only real possible alternative to Sentinel. Now, I'm already not sure if Administer is actually boosting Lifedrain (so hard to test in PH, because test dummies don't do damage, and the room that does controlled damage has nothing to lifedrain), so it isn't clear if enforcer would actually help either. But Rend would be okay, Ruthless is always okay, and Arbiter Aura could help my team even if it's useless to me. Preservation is of course the key spec here, but Honor (which i could get in Overseer too) will literally proc all the time if a teammate is standing within (soon to be) 20' of me because of vampiric on lifedrain. I think. Assuming it works with Lifedrain. (There's something else that will be a pain to test!)

Oh yeah, if you can't tell, lifedrain and spec trees do not play well together. The only thing i *know* works is the cost reductions. Half the other 'heal' specs simply don't work, and the other half I'm not sure and they're hard to test.

Anyway, the build gets in the middle of things, drops a bunch of AoE damage it doesn't need to maintain, and holds aggro while healing itself and any friendly near it. (And yes, it does actually hold aggro even without Ego Sprites in its current form). Two powers to choose, and a spec tree in question. Other thoughts appreciated too. FWIW, it's power color is purple, if that influences any power selections =)

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Lifedrain's heal depends on the dmg tick it derived from, but it still scales separately w/ bonus heal. Administer will increase its heal portion (slightly), but something like Moment of Need prob doesn't work because the heal tick crits only if the dmg portion crits. Arbiter doesn't really make sense for any build, sans maybe trying to use Concussion. Otherwise there's nearly always a better spec choice out there.

    I'd prob consider CoPD for certain (mostly melee) bosses. Even if it means you can't get the bonuses by moving around too much, it at least gives you a way to be resilient when ya decide to plant urslef in front of a boss and do long maintains. Otherwise ya just need to block well to avoid heavy knocks. Ego PSS is good for Lifedrain since it boosts crit rate and severity of the heal and dmg portions, while also giving defense and Insight. I wouldn't change that PSS.

    Since you are using a drain, ya could consider Dark Transfusion for extra energy. Normally wouldn't take it, but LD's heal isn't penalized by it so for the extra energy it should be easy to heal through the penalty and self-dmg. Ya could also consider Force Sheild's Force Sheath for extra energy and a decent block + linger effect. Lastly, from my testing w/ injured pets, it doesn't seem like LD procs Honor, so ya may want to avoid that spec option w/o having other heals.

    Otherwise, ya got the basics of the build filled out already, so the rest of the power slots may just depend on what else ya wanna do w/ the build (more team support, more personal defense w/ another AD in Unbreakable, more burst healing w/ Ascension, sigils, pets, an ally res, shadow blast for a 100ft Fear option, etc).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    flowcyto said:

    Lifedrain's heal depends on the dmg tick it derived from, but it still scales separately w/ bonus heal. Administer will increase its heal portion (slightly), but something like Moment of Need prob doesn't work because the heal tick crits only if the dmg portion crits. Arbiter doesn't really make sense for any build, sans maybe trying to use Concussion. Otherwise there's nearly always a better spec choice out there.

    Well, i'm sort of forced either Sentinel or Arbiter (with Overseer as the other) for the heal cost reduction so lifedrain is *playable*. And sentinel will literally involve wasting 2 spec points on specs that do nothing, and 3 of the other 6 aren't so hot either. (And the heal aura is mostly only useful for stacking compassion). So Arbiter is actually competitive, because the alternative just doesn't work well. Honestly, Sentry (the support/tank spec tree!) should be the go-to, but it doesn't supply the cost reduction i need (despite tanks needing it the most!).

    I'd prob consider CoPD for certain (mostly melee) bosses. Even if it means you can't get the bonuses by moving around too much, it at least gives you a way to be resilient when ya decide to plant urslef in front of a boss and do long maintains. Otherwise ya just need to block well to avoid heavy knocks. Ego PSS is good for Lifedrain since it boosts crit rate and severity of the heal and dmg portions, while also giving defense and Insight. I wouldn't change that PSS.
    CoPD is definitely a thought. Ideally, at least in boss fights, i won't be moving *that* much.

    Since you are using a drain, ya could consider Dark Transfusion for extra energy. Normally wouldn't take it, but LD's heal isn't penalized by it so for the extra energy it should be easy to heal through the penalty and self-dmg. Ya could also consider Force Sheild's Force Sheath for extra energy and a decent block + linger effect. Lastly, from my testing w/ injured pets, it doesn't seem like LD procs Honor, so ya may want to avoid that spec option w/o having other heals.
    Shocker, another heal-related spec that doesn't play well with lifedrain.

    I've thought about Dark Transfusion. Wasn't sure how significant the self-damage was.

    I think I probably want a shield though - looking at Force Shield and Telekinetic Shield at the moment. Does Telekinetic Reinforcement have a larger persistent defensive benefit? (Balancing with Force Sheath's improved energy returns?) Or is Force Sheath just strictly better? (Maybe i'll just choose based upon the one i like the look of better o.O)

    Otherwise, ya got the basics of the build filled out already, so the rest of the power slots may just depend on what else ya wanna do w/ the build (more team support, more personal defense w/ another AD in Unbreakable, more burst healing w/ Ascension, sigils, pets, an ally res, shadow blast for a 100ft Fear option, etc).
    Ally res sadly doesn't work because if i have aggro, i can't channel a res.

    And Ascension is so useless without the PBAoE heal. It's one of the reasons I'm retconning the current build, which was using it (from before the heal got removed).
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 721 Community Moderator
    edited March 2016
    Based on test parses, I'm pretty confident that Moment of Need does increase Lifedrain's critical chance.

    If you're having energy problems, you could consider dropping Presence in favor of Recovery (for your Compassion stat), then talenting (and gearing, if you're already hitting diminishing returns for Cost Discount) for more Endurance/Energy.

    *Edit* With Flashfire in the build, you could consider adding Absorb Heat to the build once it goes Live. Its heal effect is a 25' PBAoE.

    *Edit 2* Also worth noting the upcoming Holy Water. The advantage causes it to give ticks of energy (scaling with Recovery), which you can use on yourself. Neuroelectric Pulse (from the GCR vendor) also scales its energy gain with Rec, and can apply Challenging Strikes while it gives you energy.
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    edited March 2016

    Based on test parses, I'm pretty confident that Moment of Need does increase Lifedrain's critical chance.

    Interesting, because i couldn't notice a difference, and even with my low sample size, well, +9% is really big. I should have seen that o.O Maybe i need to run another test run.

    E-management is tight but workable. I'd note that sparkstorm as a cheap toggle carrying CS covers a lot of sins. (Notably i can use my EB at the same time if i need to).

    *Edit 2* Also worth noting the upcoming Holy Water. The advantage causes it to give ticks of energy (scaling with Recovery), which you can use on yourself. Neuroelectric Pulse (from the GCR vendor) also scales its energy gain with Rec, and can apply Challenging Strikes while it gives you energy.
    I'm not going to have Neuroelectric Pulse for a *long time*, because I have no interest in playing AT. So until they provide a way to farm GCR that isn't an exercise in masochism, no thanks.

    Edit: Flashfire now has CS! Now if only i had one more advantage point...
    Post edited by squirrelloid on
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    I ended up going with this:
    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=13&amp;n=Techno-Golem Tank/Support Hybrid&amp;d=1563HVONPWY7000K000K80CK600KA05K900130LF40LI9002C03MB033707BI00EI05QJ000tH52NA90Zyp

    Needs a test run on something like a rampage soon.

    I think i need to tweak my stat distribution a little too. Currently heroic primaries / OV secondaries w/ all R5 mods: 4x pre, 4x con, and 1x ego. Compared to Con primary w/ con mastery, i lost 40 Con (and gained 20 pre), so i feel like i need to swap a Pre mod for a Con mod because i dropped over 1k hp. Or swap the ego for a con mod maybe. (R5s cost a stupid amount of Q to pull out of gear, guess i need to copy over to the PTS to check what happens to energy costs when i do that).

    (Non-stat mods are sentinel in offense, growth in defense, and cost reduction in utility).

    Lifedrain is down to 12/9.7 energy cost. =)

    Also, force shield adv looks tons better than telekinetic shield advantage. Someone needs to tone the glare on tk shield's advantage down a couple f-stops, it's way too bright.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    One way to see if Moment works is if ya get a heal crit that's independent of the dmg tick critting for Lifedrain. I don't think I've ever seen that, then again it could be that Moment of Glory also increases the dmg portion's crit%. That'd be neat, though a bit nonsensical, if it were true.

    I have ally reses on my tanks and they can still get them off in some cases- just depends on the fight really. Something like Unbreakable can also give you a dmg shield to stop interruptions from low dmg. Not that I would normally recommend it, but pretty much all my FF builds have an ally res just as a personal pref- so threw that out there w/ all the other suggestions cause I was just brainstorming.

    Ascension is actually not too bad for the bonus heal boost here- its mostly why I suggested it; not for the AoE heal (which would take Illum w/ adv) or the dmg bonus (which is eh). But I can't blame ya for not wanting to use its current iteration. I'm hoping if they review all the AOs again then the passive dmg/heal from even Ascension will scale better- they really should try to balance those all more.

    afaik, TK Shield's linger is better for adding passive dmgRes, but Force Sheath's isn't too bad either (I think its ~16% for TK and ~8-9% for FS), and also gives energy when hit. Up to you, but it seems ya like FS better visually anyways.

    Ego Sprites or another TP DoT is a good choice cause they can apply CS/threat while channeling LD.

    I normally use R4s for starting gear and seeing what basic stat ranges I want, cause that's the highest rank mods ya can use that doesn't take Q to remove. If replacing R5s, I prob wouldn't even bother preserving them by spending the Q- if buying more isn't too costly for resources (would be for Con, but prob not for the others). Crit rating could also work in ur offensive gear, if ya wanna boost both the dmg and heal portions of LD.

    Regardless, how much maxHP do you have (and/or want to have)?
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    One way to see if Moment works is if ya get a heal crit that's independent of the dmg tick critting for Lifedrain. I don't think I've ever seen that, then again it could be that Moment of Glory also increases the dmg portion's crit%. That'd be neat, though a bit nonsensical, if it were true.

    It does. It also increases the crit chance of devour essence.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    but to which? Just the heal portion, or also the dmg portion? If the latter, then rofl Cryptic.. but that's cool I guess.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    but to which? Just the heal portion, or also the dmg portion? If the latter, then rofl Cryptic.. but that's cool I guess.

    Well, technically it should increase the crit of the whole power, because the whole power is flagged as a 'heal'.

    Don't think of 'heal' as 'you heal hp'. Think of heal as 'the power has the heal keyword listed in its power description'. That's how it should work.
Sign In or Register to comment.