Less-Than-Silver-Recog Costs

roughbearmattach

Chatting with a new player with low-level toon today, I realized something about the Recog costs for MCPD, PRIMUS, and UNTIL: characters will quickly outlevel earning these lower level recog tiers before being to purchase even one of the higher cost items.

Yes, a hero may trade in the next tier of recog for a lower tier, but now that means you will outlevel that next tier before being able to purchase one item, and so on.

In other words, this player had reached level 40 before getting enough MCPD, PRIMUS, or UNTIL recog to get even one of the top items (which cost hundreds of recog).

This seems like an unintended consequence. It's weird and unsatisfying.

jaazaniah1

Kind of reminds me of the old crafting system. You spend lots of time getting stuff together then make something you had already out leveled.​​

thatcursedwolf

jaazaniah1 said:

Kind of reminds me of the old crafting system. You spend lots of time getting stuff together then make something you had already out leveled.​​

That seems to be the way of most MMO crafting systems.

spinnytop

if you want something from one of those vendors it's easy enough to go kill stuff of that level... twice as easy considering you'll probably one shot them. It's actually a great thing if you think about it - those people who enjoy ultra-easy content now actually have ultra-easy content that will actually give them rewards.

lilsteffie

spinnytop said:

if you want something from one of those vendors it's easy enough to go kill stuff of that level... twice as easy considering you'll probably one shot them. It's actually a great thing if you think about it - those people who enjoy ultra-easy content now actually have ultra-easy content that will actually give them rewards.

Yes it is ultra easy, but how long are you willing to spend, mindlessly grinding all that ultra easy content? At the current rate you'd spend days on a single character grinding for it.

legendarylycan

kind of like how you spend days grinding all those 5k kill perks for costumes and/or titles...at least the costumes are account unlocks​​

lilsteffie

shadowfang240 said:

kind of like how you spend days grinding all those 5k kill perks for costumes and/or titles...at least the costumes are account unlocks​​

When i first played CO, i expected those 5k perks to be account wide. ... why they arent is beyond me.

spinnytop

lilsteffie said:

spinnytop said:

if you want something from one of those vendors it's easy enough to go kill stuff of that level... twice as easy considering you'll probably one shot them. It's actually a great thing if you think about it - those people who enjoy ultra-easy content now actually have ultra-easy content that will actually give them rewards.

Yes it is ultra easy, but how long are you willing to spend, mindlessly grinding all that ultra easy content? At the current rate you'd spend days on a single character grinding for it.

I think a few days running around killing stuff is fine to get something you want. Back in the day lots of people used to run around mindlessly killing stuff on Monster Island for crafting mats, and I thought that was pretty fun!

chaelk

most of that UNTIL is from alert dailies​​

magpieuk2014

Yup. A normal playthrough of Westside (lvl 6-15) will normally generate around 50 MCPD recog, maximum. You'd have to go hard looking for it to get anywhere near the costume pieces or additional gear. Not sure what the drop rate is from low level mobs in Westside, either, but I'm sure that going back and farming them would take forever and be very (very) boring. I used to do this with Questionite Hour and to be honest, it was pretty soul destroying even with an actual end product. PRIMUS and UNTIL work a little better because you're in the drop zones longer.

For a new player it's made even worse by there being no MCPD recog vendor in Westside (why not???). So I doubt they would even realise what can be bought with the currency until they'd gone past the place where they could collect it. Weird and unsatisfying it is, but that's what happens when things are done in a rush.​​

roughbearmattach

You stop earning UNTIL recog from dailies at level 40, though, @chaelk. Having 250-300 UNTIL recog just isn't close enough, to say nothing of PRIMUS and MCPD.
When you need 500 or 975 recog for something, earning 1 at a time from mobs is maddening.

@spinnytop
You won't earn 500 or 1000 recog in a few days spamming mobs, when you get 1 recog a time, every 20 mobs or so.

My consternation comes from the fact that by the time you are done with a level range's recog, you haven't earned anywhere near enough for anything other than a consummable or junk random gear.

In other words, the prices are just off for lower-level rewards.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

You stop earning UNTIL recog from dailies at level 40, though, @chaelk. Having 250-300 UNTIL recog just isn't close enough, to say nothing of PRIMUS and MCPD.
When you need 500 or 975 recog for something, earning 1 at a time from mobs is maddening.

@spinnytop
You won't earn 500 or 1000 recog in a few days spamming mobs, when you get 1 recog a time, every 20 mobs or so.

My consternation comes from the fact that by the time you are done with a level range's recog, you haven't earned anywhere near enough for anything other than a consummable or junk random gear.

In other words, the prices are just off for lower-level rewards.

I do agree that the leveling pace needs to be slowed down a bit so that people spend more time at the various level ranges. I mean, we're not just out-leveling recog awards... we're out-leveling like half the game's content.

squirrelloid

Not only do you not pick up anywhere near enough recog, but the quest reward recog options for *1 recog* are just woeful now. That should be 10 recog as a choice for all those quests, and then we might be getting somewhere with actually getting *something* for recog collected with a character. (Quest rewards are generally bad, but this made them ridiculously worse).

legendarylycan

yeah, the missions could use a little boost to their recognition rewards - the ones that offer recognition, of course, as not all do​​

chaelk

roughbearmattach wrote: »

You stop earning UNTIL recog from dailies at level 40, though, @chaelk. Having 250-300 UNTIL recog just isn't close enough, to say nothing of PRIMUS and MCPD.
When you need 500 or 975 recog for something, earning 1 at a time from mobs is maddening.

@spinnytop
You won't earn 500 or 1000 recog in a few days spamming mobs, when you get 1 recog a time, every 20 mobs or so.

My consternation comes from the fact that by the time you are done with a level range's recog, you haven't earned anywhere near enough for anything other than a consummable or junk random gear.

In other words, the prices are just off for lower-level rewards.

that's what I was pointing out. That character chose nothing but Recognition , no gear rewards.
The comment with it on the other thread was " This is why Recog needs to be acct bound."
also most of the UNTIL was from the 10 packs on daily missions.
I play mostly on weekends, so all I have time for in evenings during the week, is alert daily.​​

roughbearmattach

Ah, gotcha, @chaelk

I know that characters can spend recog on cheaper/consummable items, @spinnytop, but it's just weird that standard play just won't earn one even close to a third of the recog needed for one high-price recog item of any tier lower than SCR.

Yes, you could convert recog down--converting all UNTIL and PRIMUS to MCPD. That still won't get you one item, and then you have no recog for anything else.

heartstringsk3

I know the devs don't really care too much, but I really hope they consider just outright reverting the prices for everything below Silver Champion. It's super-unsatisfying, and it's not like you can get anything amazing for MCPD, PRIMUS, and UNTIL anyway. Is it really so bad that new players can unlock a bunch of extra costume pieces or travel powers with some effort?

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

Ah, gotcha, @chaelk

I know that characters can spend recog on cheaper/consummable items, @spinnytop, but it's just weird that standard play just won't earn one even close to a third of the recog needed for one high-price recog item of any tier lower than SCR.

Yes, you could convert recog down--converting all UNTIL and PRIMUS to MCPD. That still won't get you one item, and then you have no recog for anything else.

I think the intent may be that to get the higher priced items, you are going to be going back and farming for recog even after you've outleveled. It might be a clever way for them to extend the life of certain areas, which might be a good thing considering we have entire swaths of content that only account for like 1 hour of the leveling journey.

roughbearmattach

spinnytop said:

I think the intent may be that to get the higher priced items, you are going to be going back and farming for recog even after you've outleveled. It might be a clever way for them to extend the life of certain areas, which might be a good thing considering we have entire swaths of content that only account for like 1 hour of the leveling journey.

I see what you're saying, but it is a gamble. The player I talked with was frustrated/annoyed that they couldn't get any rewards in their current level range, or past one.

A veteran player might have all or most of the MCPD, PRIMUS, or even UNTIL unlocks/gear/etc. Newer players won't, and will likely never earn enough to "go back to lower level areas", as you suggest, because the farming rate is just much too low. You'll hit 5000 kill perks long before earning 975 of MCPD or PRIMUS recog.

chaelk

most players aren't going to those areas to level, "takes too long"" not enough reward". They are unlikely to go farming, which involves a lot of time for little reward, unless you are lucky.
also the infinite spawns in each area have been removed about 4 patches ago​​

draogn

roughbearmattach said:

spinnytop said:

I think the intent may be that to get the higher priced items, you are going to be going back and farming for recog even after you've outleveled. It might be a clever way for them to extend the life of certain areas, which might be a good thing considering we have entire swaths of content that only account for like 1 hour of the leveling journey.

I see what you're saying, but it is a gamble. The player I talked with was frustrated/annoyed that they couldn't get any rewards in their current level range, or past one.

A veteran player might have all or most of the MCPD, PRIMUS, or even UNTIL unlocks/gear/etc. Newer players won't, and will likely never earn enough to "go back to lower level areas", as you suggest, because the farming rate is just much too low. You'll hit 5000 kill perks long before earning 975 of MCPD or PRIMUS recog.

Anyone who does manage to farm the 975 tokens and decides to use those tokens to buy something like Batflight I have a feeling will be very irritated once they realize how useless of a tp it is. Rather then giving everything a blanketed price the items should be priced according to worth/usefulness, and nothing should be more then 100 tokens. More then that is just absurd.

raighn

More successful MMOs with a multitude of currencies like our Recog have the costs scale with the level range of the currency & rewards... early game currencies buy things for 5-20 each while late game currencies cost an upwards of 1k per item... if they really want SCR items to have such high costs then all lower Recogs must be priced appropriate to their level range with the lowest MCR having all it's items cost only 5-20 each...

crypticbuxom

Again, the rate of recog earned isn't low. The cost is just high.

Maybe they can reintroduce the gear conversion again that turns vendor trash into recog instead of selling them for Resources. Make higher rarity stuff level up your R&D and we remotely have the old crafting system back.​​

roughbearmattach

Another idea would be to get a favorable exchange when trading down recog, like x2 per step:

1 SCR = 2 UNTIL
1 UNTIL = 2 PRIMUS
1 PRIMUS = 2 MCPD

So. . . 1 SCR would generate 8 MCPD.

spinnytop

crypticbuxom said:

Again, the rate of recog earned isn't low. The cost is just high.



Maybe they can reintroduce the gear conversion again that turns vendor trash into recog instead of selling them for Resources. Make higher rarity stuff level up your R&D and we remotely have the old crafting system back.​​

There's an idea.

roughbearmattach

crypticbuxom said:

Again, the rate of recog earned isn't low. The cost is just high.



Maybe they can reintroduce the gear conversion again that turns vendor trash into recog instead of selling them for Resources. Make higher rarity stuff level up your R&D and we remotely have the old crafting system back.​​

Good suggestion

spinnytop

Actually wait... so what's to prevent people from just buying a few things off the auction house and buying everything off the recog vendor via vendoring them and thereby skipping the entire "play to get stuff" intent... think my endorsement of that idea may have been too quick.

captainhunter1

Since the recent Recognition revamp, I found the system much more in line than it used to be.

Consumables and devices have much better choices and are useful at level (and scale in the case of summoning devices, so that high level characters can still use them effectively).

Yes some of the stat equipment and costume costs are outrageous (975 points for a single rare costume piece??) and should be adjusted down, but overall, it is a much better system than in the past.

draogn

spinnytop said:

Actually wait... so what's to prevent people from just buying a few things off the auction house and buying everything off the recog vendor via vendoring them and thereby skipping the entire "play to get stuff" intent... think my endorsement of that idea may have been too quick.

The absurd prices for one, the amount of tokens it takes to purchase something means fewer players are going to be less likely to farm tokens just to sell it on the ah. When they do decide to try, they will set the AH price to match the amount of time it took to grind the tokens.

spinnytop

draogn said:

spinnytop said:

Actually wait... so what's to prevent people from just buying a few things off the auction house and buying everything off the recog vendor via vendoring them and thereby skipping the entire "play to get stuff" intent... think my endorsement of that idea may have been too quick.

The absurd prices for one, the amount of tokens it takes to purchase something means fewer players are going to be less likely to farm tokens just to sell it on the ah. When they do decide to try, they will set the AH price to match the amount of time it took to grind the tokens.

I'm not talking about selling the stuff from the vendor on the AH.

draogn

spinnytop said:

draogn said:

spinnytop said:

Actually wait... so what's to prevent people from just buying a few things off the auction house and buying everything off the recog vendor via vendoring them and thereby skipping the entire "play to get stuff" intent... think my endorsement of that idea may have been too quick.

The absurd prices for one, the amount of tokens it takes to purchase something means fewer players are going to be less likely to farm tokens just to sell it on the ah. When they do decide to try, they will set the AH price to match the amount of time it took to grind the tokens.

I'm not talking about selling the stuff from the vendor on the AH.

The G cost for those items on the ah isn't much better then the token costs.

chaelk

crypticbuxom wrote: »

Again, the rate of recog earned isn't low. The cost is just high.

Maybe they can reintroduce the gear conversion again that turns vendor trash into recog instead of selling them for Resources. Make higher rarity stuff level up your R&D and we remotely have the old crafting system back.

I remember that. level 11, take a bag of junk gear, break it down for 100 craft pts . go back to leelling, repeat at next training level​​

spinnytop

draogn said:

spinnytop said:

draogn said:

spinnytop said:

Actually wait... so what's to prevent people from just buying a few things off the auction house and buying everything off the recog vendor via vendoring them and thereby skipping the entire "play to get stuff" intent... think my endorsement of that idea may have been too quick.

The absurd prices for one, the amount of tokens it takes to purchase something means fewer players are going to be less likely to farm tokens just to sell it on the ah. When they do decide to try, they will set the AH price to match the amount of time it took to grind the tokens.

I'm not talking about selling the stuff from the vendor on the AH.

The G cost for those items on the ah isn't much better then the token costs.

Once again, that's not what I'm talking about.