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2 gun mojo...

... is super EZ Mode and with medical nanites my new freeform character was face-rolling the game. I got bored and rerolled an energy caster that didn't have a huge con boost just so I might die if I'm dumb.

tl;dr - Freeform is OP. Please nerf.
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  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    double post brain fart
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    The only logical response to this thread now follows :


    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    I like your thinking and want you on my team of time traveling adventurers.
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  • notyuunotyuu Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    If you think medical Nanites are OP, wait until you find regen.


    In all things, a calm heart must prevail.

    Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.

    eOGi6Cv.png9rfvawn.pngr3iD4nS.png


    Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    To be honest, the healing stuff is fine. Most of the ATs could use one.

    But I spent 20 levels using nothing but a power builder and Two Gun Mojo and I was like, "Sheesh. I don't think I even needed the heals. What sort of Clarence soloing monsters can someone who knows the system inside and out make?"

    And then I rerolled like I said because I'm used to running an Inferno and avoiding faceplants are part of the challenge
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    twg042370 said:

    tl;dr - Freeform is OP.

    Only if OP powers are chosen.

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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Han still shot 1st, no matter how much cannon it wasn't.​​
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  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    CO FF for a dps is pretty much, finding a really good maintain and spamming the hell out of it. I've come to accept that - because I really don't see that changing much. And if it does - the QQ will be epic.

    (*yes I know there are awesome non-cheese builds out there...)
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    so is your new energy caster lightning. if so meet the other Tier 1 faceroll- lightning Arc.

    if you want a challenge, use nothing but the new telepathy DOT items. you too can take 20 minutes to nickle and dime Mega terak to death.

    or if you don't mind a small aggro problem, get fire, heals and pestilence as your passive.
    ire and TK has the same small problem..
    Those 2 characters had a tray of heal items, giving you an idea of the small problem.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    He is lightning but so far he's looking like a souped up Tempest. I might go Telepathy just to see how long it takes before I fall asleep if The Mind AT is anything to go by.

    Thing is, I don't think I can make his awesome costume work for another class. Maybe? I only got him past Poe so it's not like I have anything to lose by re rolling into and even weaker power set and seeing how he looks in pink

    The look is important, eh.
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  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Went with a TK/telepath combo. Did ego swords stuff for a while but it felt like an Unleashed with fewer costume options.

    So far I'm doing well against the mobs, but I'm not facerolling them anymore. I find Kevin Poe can be a handful when he joins the zerg rush though. We'll see how it works out.
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    When your first attempt at FF uses the top DPS power in the game... of course you're going to think FF is OP... 2GM is arguably the strongest DPS power in CO currently... challenged only by Strafing Run... Before the changes to Ice, Ice Blast w/Hard Frost was comparable to 2GM, but not anymore...

    If you really want a challenge but still able to hit some good numbers... Try Gadgeteer Pistols.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    "Medical Nanites"
    "OP"

    6453910.jpg​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies
    Playing since 1 February 2011 90+ Characters (7 ATs, 83 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    The beauty of Freeform is that you can make just about any superhero you can think of. Come up with a concept, pick powers that fall in line with that concept, and have fun playing that character, not that pile of stats.

    That's when it's fun.
    biffsig.jpg
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    Mind at i actually a REALLY easy AT to level.,especially once you get the energy unlock.
    to give you an idea of some of the combos I've tried.
    . Smudge - mutated puma- insane inventor/gun nut, actually just nuts
    2. Hope- djinn- earth air fire
    3. felicity- PnP character with ridiculous luck, here she's a magic user
    4. Leaf Mckenzie- ranged support mage
    5. Emily- earth plus big weapon
    6. Warden-electric
    7. Mist of the sea-elf with bow and pistol and rocket launcher and orbital cannon
    8.Chance-scourge- demonically possesed daughter of Snowball
    9.Lurimer- elemental mage
    10.Anathema the blood elf- earthdawn variety- shadow/MA
    11. Atta 1.0 version 3- scouting/survey robot and collecter of small critters
    12.Hist Aerian- fire/healer with pestilence- how much aggro can one person get
    13. Dr Elizabeth Finkle- mentalist/psychologist
    14. Random- half celestial/shadow elf- healer
    15.S.P.O.T- Oak sapling- male dryad- Specialist AT
    16. leafchaser- small, cute,friendly STUPID wolfwere puppy
    17. Christmas rose- angel with a safety line- scourge
    18. bright avenger- rainbow coloured becasue I'm sick of all the black/grey NA
    19.Anneika- little gun toting maniac
    20.Warden . J- tried her as a modified electric mage (redo)
    21.Vi'lar- 2 gun sort of tank
    22.Miska- battery operated plasma beam
    23. Delusional- mentalist obviously
    24. The Smurfer Dude - blue skin, white pants, blond hair- force, wind lightning
    25. Hey You - heyyu ne Tan - independent contractor
    26. Quicken- inventor- cursed by a mummy
    27. Cheap trick- "if they're staring at my t*ts they're not watching my guns"
    28. Mimi - the air head, air mage
    29. heras- specialist with added self heal- small alien
    30. Angelica The Rising Demon- nemesis and 'evil' twin of Christmas Rose
    31. Hangus - dot mentalist- for those who don't mind nickle and dimeing people to death
    32.Skeeter - FF archer- it has heals
    33. Tinker, NA minus blades plus healing and Skarnes
    34. Sue Kai Foff - mage mechaniton- darkness plus gadgets, mainly drones
    35. Serentex - "sure I'll test the power armour" a few tests later "ok, remove that, and that and that is just dangerous"
    36. Mode One- FF- levelled with no gear , vehicles or legacy devices(now I need to try it with an AT)
    37. Cha Qui- Master AT
    38. Melinda Finkle- (no relation) 1/4 fae- fire and guns
    39. Mode 2- at- Grimoire AT levelled with no gear
    40. Scruffy(soriffee tossta)- alien toddler in dino suit . quote "Zobies, want play zobies"
    41. major Nuisance- force cascade. I consider a force user a major nuisance, even if it my character
    41. Mrrowp aka Poofy cat- fire and ice
    42. Spirit- Mind AT
    43. Spook- mentalist- part time dead person or is it part time live person
    44. Smudge c at- claws, lightning reflexes and guns. ok she's cat gun nut
    45. Snow job- ice/gun(ok gadgets) bunny- independent contractor- hates small yappy dogs
    46. Feather puff- cursed AT.
    47. Cerentex- squirrel- Mind at. ok she's nuts
    48. Mark.E.D. - Norta- doing independent investigation of suitable behaviour(it's wandering around by itself)
    49. Pita- non blood sucking , evolved vampire- transfers energy back and forth
    50. bas ata- baby robot- healer
    51. Scaredy cat "is it safe yet?" elementalist, looking for a nice, quiet, safe place.
    52. Kitten ka boom boom- lavender tabby- scourge with regen
    53. Kittykaboomboom- her larger, stupider brother- fire/ice/electric/pets- I just couldn't make up my mind
    54. Stripes and Stars - tabbies are stripes. Disciple AT.
    55. Chickie- human/oid/bird-Ice as dps instead of tank
    56. Vorpal Bunny(Vospol) NA- mentalist/toys.- weird but it works
    57. White lady- bean sidhe- darkness of course
    58. Patience- Patience is a virtue, not when it is someone with a staff with a big pointy bit ont he end. heavy weapon plus might
    59. Smurfer Dudette- female smurfer with better heals and lightning
    60. Aahmes- force use- crushing wave/redirected force and force detonation most of all.
    61. Minia Bun(smallest of 3 BUnn sisters) - Tempest AT
    62. Avoided One- laser swords set- never again
    63. Stupid Cupid- archer with NA passive
    64. Dusty - marksman at
    65. Noone - Void at
    66. Senna ne Caro- Blade at
    67. Nona Metoo- inventor/night avenger< new ones past here
    68. Dr Helen O'Heal O.C.(Oh CR..) inventor AT
    69. Cinna Mon Bun - squall at
    70. Conflagrant - Inferno at obviously
    71. Dr Helen O'Heal Md(misdirection) Impulse AT
    72. Burper- baby dragon, bite, claws, breath weapoin , heal, lizard freinds... 3 unpsent powers.
    73. Deer oh dear.- active offence/passive defence- small deer with guns and passive 2 attacks and the rest passive heals.
    74. Major Skanke- long blonde hair, tight shorts, open jacket with nothing under, knee high boots... male. Night avenger< new from here
    75.Ethera- Devastator ATonce you get lunge and block, simple.
    76. Master Ninja- 2 attacks, 6 heals, 3 work on others(well here's me a mobile skeleton, happily continuing on and what do they do . die as soon as their body fails)
    77.Callichex- slightly insane squirrel - Unleashed at
    78. The Penetrator- NW- the person who Defender blames, for thing he shouldn't have done
    79.Marriffe Tossta - savage ATknee alien toddler
    80.Snow Bunn- void powers with seraphim in support.
    81.Generic Blue Redder- Cursed at- demon, torn clothes, awful aura. the usual
    82. Skitter- wind/heals/aopm
    83.Roc Kerr- guitarist, earth DPS(2 puns in one)
    84. Sunlight- aztec doggie- particle powers.
    85. Generic experimented on pet- savage with summon & gravity driver
    86. Winging It- FF glacier in Dps plus Flashfire and rimefire.
    87.

    chaelk @kittykaboomboom with 28 level 40's (Snowball)

    1. Snowball- red tabby- electric
    2. kitten kaboomboom- lavender tabby- scourge
    3. Itty Bitty Kitty- irate little sh*t, ego blades.
    4. Dark puppy- darkness
    5. Dinky puppy- runt of the litter- lots of toys
    6. Wind runner/stealth- armed and eye blinding in armour
    7. Sonor- night avenger At
    8. Hider- sort of night avenger
    9. Captain Chat Ban- electric with pets- ranged support
    10. Blue light- battery powered plasma beam
    11. Megian - small venomous lizard- force polus infernal
    12. Irinia- wind/force- becasue we don 't have computer empath as a power set,
    13.Moonstruck- wind/lightning- slightly not sane-
    14. Fire Song- shapeshifter- TK- ranged plus melee
    15. Scruffy- bestial FF- I added puppy, puppy and puppies
    16. Just Visiting the Planet- Fist AT(OMG, never again)
    17.Jr. Acct. Hiis'try- 'not the lizard' accountant- wind /lightning
    18. Choco puppy-munitions- NO 2GM
    19. Bug Gar- Bug called Gar- wind/force cascade
    20. Da Bean - NA with guns and boomerangs.
    21. Petal- mentalist plant(or what not to do with the dryad costume)
    22. Were-do- dual blade, slightly odd wolf were.< past here
    23. Rat-a-tat-tat - rat soldier at
    24. Little Pink Dude - mentalist- The Generator overloaded and the nightmare became real.(yes, my one and only clone. IF ones of ingame devices count)
    25. Pink Bats - Inferno plus heals, a bad joke
    26. Campus krampus- Specialist at
    27. Splattercast -Invincible AT
    28. Princess Magic Sprinkle Skittlep - scourge at.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • tigerofcachticetigerofcachtice Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Based on this Action Figure of Lady Gadfly, I'm guessing she's a 2 Gun Mojo user, too:


    Banner%20Try%20Again.jpg
    More action at Champions Online Comics @ http://co-comics.webs.com
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User

    Don't like it, don't use it.

    There's always gotta be one in a thread.
    avianos said:


    6453910.jpg​​

    Okay two. There's always gotta be two in a thread.
    raighn said:

    If you really want a challenge but still able to hit some good numbers... Try Gadgeteer Pistols.

    Now that sounds fun! And I have the old timey mustaches unlocked. Thanks for the suggestion.
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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    The beauty of Freeform is that you can make just about any superhero you can think of. Come up with a concept, pick powers that fall in line with that concept, and have fun playing that character, not that pile of stats.

    That's when it's fun.

    What Smacky said. I have 2GM on two of my over 50 characters, and that's only because it fit the character (and inspired Barnstormer's battle cry of "WHEN IN DOUBT, SHOOT 'EM IN THE FACE!"). I use them according to how the character would use two guns. I'd probably do more DPS using them exclusively but BOOOOOOORING (as the OP noted). I wanna play super-heroes, not be uber gamer. :)

    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User

    Han still shot 1st, no matter how much cannon it wasn't.​​

    It wasn't a cannon, it was a blaster! :p
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User

    Han still shot 1st, no matter how much cannon it wasn't.​​

    It wasn't a cannon, it was a blaster! :p
    A Tempest?
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Han still shot 1st, no matter how much cannon it wasn't.

    It wasn't a cannon, it was a blaster! :p

    A Tempest?

    Blaster would be the gadgeteeer pistols. One has an odd effect on nearby trees.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,531 Arc User
    avianos wrote: »
    "Medical Nanites"
    "OP"

    6453910.jpg

    Why else does Sentinel heal allies for nearly 1k every 3 seconds? ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

    ... Oh wait... Half of that is from Sentinel Aura.​​
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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    twg042370 said:

    Han still shot 1st, no matter how much cannon it wasn't.​​

    It wasn't a cannon, it was a blaster! :p
    A Tempest?
    No, a mockery of finn for misspelling "canon". :D

    'Dec out

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  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    Because who needs super strengh or mystical powers when you can just shoot them with bullets!


    ...it's a good thing we don't have to buy our own ammo.

  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    Problem is even with ATs the game is easy. You can solo everything even with nanites as your only healing.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    nepht said:

    Problem is even with ATs the game is easy. You can solo everything even with nanites as your only healing.

    Well, we are superheros after all. :p

    Oh, and Nepht, I think someone stole your character concept for another game. ;)

    [youtube]
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User


    Well, we are superheros after all. :p

    Oh, and Nepht, I think someone stole your character concept for another game. ;)

    [youtube]

    I hear Bast likes Twilight...nuff said.

    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User

    _________________
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    what?
    Didn't get the expected response?
    Try ingame for more gullible people​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    deadman20 wrote: »
    avianos wrote: »
    "Medical Nanites"
    "OP"

    6453910.jpg

    Why else does Sentinel heal allies for nearly 1k every 3 seconds? ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

    ... Oh wait... Half of that is from Sentinel Aura.

    You need to tell me how much PRE and Bonus Healing you stacked to archieve that! onion-61.gif​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies
    Playing since 1 February 2011 90+ Characters (7 ATs, 83 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    chaelk said:

    Try ingame for more gullible people​​

    I'm sure you're both very pleasant and not at all pugnacious in real life and the pointless rudeness you're showing here is just a result of having an unrelated bad day and not an ingrained difficulty in dealing with other people for deep-seated emotional and psychological reasons that are unknown to me.

    I hope you both can fix up whatever minor thing that's giving you such a, temporarily, miserable disposition that you want to toss flame bait at a stranger on the internet. Life is too short to be unpleasant to interact with all of the time but I'm sure that despite your can't-be-helped pissy mood you know this and want to stop, but pride is adding another level of difficulty for you both to get past. We've all been there.

    So whatever it is that's giving you two this, no doubt temporary, unlikable online personality: Go get 'em, tiger. You can lick it. Like a lollipop. I believe in you.
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  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    twg042370 said:

    chaelk said:

    Try ingame for more gullible people​​

    I'm sure you're both very pleasant and not at all pugnacious in real life and the pointless rudeness you're showing here is just a result of having an unrelated bad day and not an ingrained difficulty in dealing with other people for deep-seated emotional and psychological reasons that are unknown to me.

    I hope you both can fix up whatever minor thing that's giving you such a, temporarily, miserable disposition that you want to toss flame bait at a stranger on the internet. Life is too short to be unpleasant to interact with all of the time but I'm sure that despite your can't-be-helped pissy mood you know this and want to stop, but pride is adding another level of difficulty for you both to get past. We've all been there.

    So whatever it is that's giving you two this, no doubt temporary, unlikable online personality: Go get 'em, tiger. You can lick it. Like a lollipop. I believe in you.
    I like Chaelk and ur a douche for this post and you should go far far away. But that was &%$*ing magnificent.

    Also who fixed the forum users?...its like the heyday of 2011. All we need is Shev and The_Last* back for it to be perfect ^w^

    *I miss Mr Halo fanboi man ;_;
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    2 gun mojo...

    Is just fine. Its other powers that aren't up to speed. Lightning Arc, Blade Tempest, Shred, Cleave, and formerly Ice Blast are also at the standard of great powers that you can get right out the gate.

    If TGM is OP than all those other powers are OP. They just aren't because its what you use with them. And content was made easier because ATs exist.​​
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User

    2 gun mojo...



    Is just fine. Its other powers that aren't up to speed. Lightning Arc, Blade Tempest, Shred, Cleave, and formerly Ice Blast are also at the standard of great powers that you can get right out the gate.



    If TGM is OP than all those other powers are OP. They just aren't because its what you use with them. And content was made easier because ATs exist.​​

    You forgot TK Assualt on that list.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    Cleave​​

    I do have to wonder, do you use cleave often? I see people claiming it's so strong a lot, but I do actually have a HW character I use a lot and in my opinion it is in need of a buff. Can you provide me with any damage parses to show why you think it belongs in your list of strong powers.

    Also, TGM does higher damage than any of those powers you listed (now that ice blast has been changed), while having less requirements for supporting powers and specific stats.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    twg042370 wrote: »
    Try ingame for more gullible people
    I'm sure you're both very pleasantno, not really and not at all pugnacious in real life yesand the pointless rudeness you're showing here is just a result of having an unrelated bad dayno and not an ingrained difficulty in dealing with other people for deep-seated emotional and psychological reasons that are unknown to me.nope I just find people annoying including friends.

    I hope you both can fix upassuming we want to whatever minor thing that's giving you such a, temporarily, miserable dispositionnope, not temporarily, usually that you want to toss flame bait at a stranger on the internet.who says it's just to strangers? Life is too short to be unpleasant to interact with, all of the time ok, missed a comma, then it makes more sensebut I'm sure that despite your can't-be-helped pissy moodcan be helped. Don't find more, oh this is OP. er.. we know. it's been reported along with a load of others. you know this and want to stopnope, but pride is adding another level of difficulty for you both to get past. We've all been there.are you sure?

    So whatever it is that's giving you two this, no doubt temporary,nope unlikable online personality: Go get 'em, tiger.make up your mind You can lick it. Like a lollipop. I believe in youoh, however did I live without that.

    Nepth, Shev was a master at shoving both feet firmly down her throat.

    to the OP,
    my posts are usually heavily edited to remove rude and tactless comments. I didn't edit that one.​​
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  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    Cleave​​

    I do have to wonder, do you use cleave often? I see people claiming it's so strong a lot, but I do actually have a HW character I use a lot and in my opinion it is in need of a buff. Can you provide me with any damage parses to show why you think it belongs in your list of strong powers.

    Also, TGM does higher damage than any of those powers you listed (now that ice blast has been changed), while having less requirements for supporting powers and specific stats.
    I've actually been wondering the same thing for quite some time... my HW build uses Cleave and it's by far the weakest power she has... I'd honestly be willing to bet its one of the weakest powers on any of my characters...
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    Cleave R3 and Challenging Strikes is an excellent agro power and the third attack doing great spike damage. It grabs the attention of plenty of mobs without have to use specs to help.
    raighn wrote: »
    You forgot TK Assualt on that list.

    I usually do. Include that.​​
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    Cleave R3 and Challenging Strikes is an excellent agro power and the third attack doing great spike damage. It grabs the attention of plenty of mobs without have to use specs to help.​​

    You can grab agro with almost any power if you add CS, and there are much better alternatives for that then cleave. And a 5k or maybe 6k crit on a dps build is not a great spike, and certainly not if you count the prerequisite attacks and activation time.

    From Kaiserin's dps tests:
    TGM = 4700
    Cleave (+demolish debuff) = 3600

    I still don't understand your reasons to place Cleave on the same list of strong powers as TGM.
  • notyuunotyuu Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    Cleave R3 and Challenging Strikes is an excellent agro power and the third attack doing great spike damage. It grabs the attention of plenty of mobs without have to use specs to help.​​

    You can grab agro with almost any power if you add CS, and there are much better alternatives for that then cleave. And a 5k or maybe 6k crit on a dps build is not a great spike, and certainly not if you count the prerequisite attacks and activation time.

    From Kaiserin's dps tests:
    TGM = 4700
    Cleave (+demolish debuff) = 3600

    I still don't understand your reasons to place Cleave on the same list of strong powers as TGM.
    Considering that cleave is a AoE combo attack which is capable of stacking enraged [and scales off strength, really REALLY well] it's considered rather powerful for what it is.
    In all things, a calm heart must prevail.

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    Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    chaelk said:



    Nepth, Shev was a master at shoving both feet firmly down her throat.
    ​​

    Exactly ^o^

    And I did call the OP a douche c'mon \o\

    But the OP being overly nasty to people for no real reason (really OP dont be a douche thats mah job U_u ) aside a lot of us are missing the valid point he or she made. Even with borked builds this game is way to easy which is one of the reasons people get bored with it pretty fast.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    notyuu said:

    aiqa said:

    Cleave R3 and Challenging Strikes is an excellent agro power and the third attack doing great spike damage. It grabs the attention of plenty of mobs without have to use specs to help.​​

    You can grab agro with almost any power if you add CS, and there are much better alternatives for that then cleave. And a 5k or maybe 6k crit on a dps build is not a great spike, and certainly not if you count the prerequisite attacks and activation time.

    From Kaiserin's dps tests:
    TGM = 4700
    Cleave (+demolish debuff) = 3600

    I still don't understand your reasons to place Cleave on the same list of strong powers as TGM.
    Considering that cleave is a AoE combo attack which is capable of stacking enraged [and scales off strength, really REALLY well] it's considered rather powerful for what it is.
    Stacking forms is generally not a big problem, TGM stacks concentration too. And Cleave does not have any STR scaling, it has (melee) damage bonus scaling like every other melee attack. Those dps numbers I posted are on a full build including strength, if you want to claim differently please provide some actual data. The AoE part of cleave is among the worst in the game, melee cone with a 3 target limit, there are many ranged attacks with a higher target cap and bigger attack surface that do higher damage and considering those limits it should be much closer to single target ranged attacks than it is.

    I suspect that the ideas cleave is a strong attack are still from the time when agressor was still a toggle. If it was really up to the level of TGM and such don't you think you would see it used more often?
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I'd say a power that works great as a melee AoE and can hold agro without sacrificing R3 is a pretty exceptional. DPS shouldn't be the ultimate deciding factor when determining if a power is great or not. Regardless, you need to include AoE damage for overall DPS.​​
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    Okay, maybe I'm just not using whatever synergistic stuff y'all think is just obvious, but in my experience 2GM isn't that big a deal. Gunrunner does a lot more damage with his imaginary Gatling Gun than with his imaginary pistols.​​
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    If you want to add maximum AoE damage, there are no good single target powers. That is of course not a good way to compare things and there are many higher damage AoE attacks with higher target caps and a bigger attack surface, even some pbAoE. And like I said, you can hold agro with many powers, that is not something unique. The only thing Cleave does appart from damage is enrage stacking (so you can build your form... yay?). Non of the things that cleave does appart from damage are unique or even close to high performance, so damage is actually the only thing you have to count when deciding how well the power performs.

    Again, I seriously doubt you're using cleave on any character you play often.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 750 Arc User
    I can't stand the rooting AOEs, I need to be mobile, storm of arrows is a good one, but the DPS is very poor, epidemic works well also, ninja star spin is good as well, if you're a shadow dancer type.​​
    [NbK]XStorm
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

    And.. again, those other ranged powers are 100', 2GM is 50'. And believe me, you use both ranges you'll learn that difference is far from academic.

    Wich is more than made up for by having full mobility and not having a damage ramp up, that doesn't need a significant damage advantage.
This discussion has been closed.