I personally don't think of Bat-Man and Robin and the like as superheroes. I consider them more costumed crime fighters. Even though they've come to be widely accepted as superheroes, I just don't think it fits the bill because of, once again, genre dilution. I don't consider Phoenix Jones a superhero for the same reasons. He may look the part, but does he do anything that's actually super? No. Vigilante? Crime Fighter? Costumed? Yeah. Superhero? No.
A bit of a tangent, here, but I'm curious - what's your definition of a Superhero, then?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that he means...
Superheroes are the ones that have super powers and use them to do heroic things.
That's basically it, in a nutshell.
This came about a long time ago when I was discussing the topic with my brother. On the forums, people were trying to include whatever genre they really liked into being "superhero" stuff so they could feel justified in asking for costumes and/or content of that type.
And in the end, with their inclusion of every type of thing, the definition of superhero is "anyone who can do anything that a normal person can't." And while that sounds fine to some people at first - because now Goku is a superhero, the guy from Devil May Cry is a superhero, Cloud Strife is a superhero - then it also means that pokemon are superheroes, the teletubbies are superheroes, Mario is a superhero, Pac-Man is a superhero. Basically anything can be.
It's such ridiculous self-serving dilution that got me to think about what a superhero really is. Which brings me to:
In modern popular fiction, a superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of heroic character possessing extraordinary talents, supernatural phenomena, or superhuman powers and is dedicated to a moral goal or protecting the public. A female superhero is sometimes called a superheroine (also rendered super-heroine or super heroine). Fiction centered on such characters, especially in American comic books since the 1930s, is known as superhero fiction.
By most definitions, characters do not require actual supernatural or superhuman powers or phenomena to be deemed superheroes.Terms such as masked crime fighters, costumed adventurers or masked vigilantes are sometimes used to refer to characters such as the Spirit, who may not be explicitly referred to as superheroes but nevertheless share similar traits.
Some superheroes use their powers to counter day-to-day crime while also combating threats against humanity by supervillains, their criminal counterparts. Often, at least one of these supervillains will be the superhero's archenemy. Some long-running superheroes such as Superman, Batman, Captain America, Spider-Man, Iron Man and the Flash have a rogues gallery of recurring enemies. Superheroes sometimes will combat such threats as aliens, supernatural entities, and even ideological enemies such as Nazis.
This very fine definition of superheroes. The bolded part above is a part that most people don't even consider. To me, it has to be a setting that recognizes that superheroes exist. That's not to say that a setting couldn't exist that had only one supehero, but if that's the case, he needs other superhero tropes to sit him squarely in the superhero category. Does he wear a costume? Does he wear a mask and/or have a secret identity? Does he use his powers to fight crime and/or evil? If you don't check off at least some of these boxes, then I don't consider it a superhero.
Take Powder, for instance. He could do things that normal people cannot do, but he didn't have a secret identity, didn't use his powers to fight crime or evil, he didn't live in a world that recognized superheroes are real, and he didn't have any sort of costume. That's why you don't find Powder in the superhero section of anything. It's not just the character, it's the setting, too.
I am merely saying this; a hero MMO was released, they asked the player-base, what do you think of an animal form, as-well as a humanoid form. Both have their own set of costumes and animations. Basically, beasts will have costume options such as battle armor and cyborg eye patches from the character creation screen just like humanoids.
Perhaps they would not get every travel power two leggers get, for cost and time saving purposes. A grapple hook could work though, have it shoot from the back, aka their mounted armor lol.
Would it require some work? Sure, but for a team whom planned it all along, would not be a hassle perse, merely comes down to $$$ and memory, which should not be an issue, so long as they stay away from consoles.
edit: Eh..no clue why i quoted Morigosa in there, my bads.
I can just imagine a centaur running around with wall-crawling.
Okay, first off, no interest in multiply-legged supers - centaurs, spiders, The Amazing Centipede-Man, any of that.
Second, a1, why pretend you're only interested in gathering opinions when you argue so fiercely against opinions other than your own?
Third, I started skimming when you said a CoT dev was "thinking about this". CoT "devs" have been thinking about a lot of things, for quite some time. Haven't seen much of it come to life, though. I can "think about" writing a novel, but that won't get a single page finished. I've been "thinking about" fixing that junkheap in my garage, but there it sits, not running at all. When the "devs" for that seeming blue-sky project start actually doing, not just "thinking about it", maybe I'll give them a bit of attention.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The only person i debated against was Biff, unless you can find an instance where i argued "Fiercely" with anyone else. Am I allowed to illustrate my stance? Guess not, hehe. He said CO was not influenced by fantasy, me and a few others disagreed, CO has already crossed that line. I did not see any curse words nor foul language from him nor I.
I'm not certain that you read my entire posts. In like my third post in this thread I said "I already said I know there's fantasy elements in comics, and that that stuff is in Champions already, but even in comics it's a small part of the whole." Not to mention that I do know that most of everything that's "super" in the Champions universe, even technology, comes from magic. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
Anyway, he's probably referencing your condescending tones in some of your posts, like when you linked a webpage to me that explains what percentages are. As well as dismissing my side of the conversation as being clearly "false" despite lots of evidence to the contrary.
Sharing opinions is a discussion. Telling people their opinions are wrong is more of an argument.
Just sayin'. I'm not trying to revive that whole discussion.
Not to mention that I do know that most of everything that's "super" in the Champions universe, even technology, comes from magic. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
Technically, almost.
What's going on is that Magic is ultimately the reasons certain forms of physics bending or outright physics breaking technology works, but the technology itself is still technology and would be coiuntered as any other technology would need to be. Castng an anti-magic field wouldn't prevent the technology from continuing to work.
basically, the magical origin of the Champions Earth setting happened a long time ago and it can't be *taken back* easily, unless the tides of magic themselves wane.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Shadowrun, and it's description of the magi-cyberpunk setting it's in being called "the sixth world"*, but it's a pretty similar concept. Magic is running high currently, and this allows all sorts of crazy stuff to occur that can't when magic is low. Including Superheroes with all sorts of non-magical explanations for their powers.
*the sixth time in Shadowrun's settings history known to 'immortals' like ancient elves and dragons that magic has run very high for an extended period.
In comics, characters like that are usually very fringe. They are usually minor players or members of a strange race (maybe even magical) race the hero encounters. In other words, NPC's. The whole thing about superheroes is that they are idealized human beings. Sure Superman is an alien, but he's a very attractive human looking alien. Wonder Woman and Thor are mythological creatures but they are very human looking. And so on.
Even a big green mutant like the HULK is an idealized human. That's basically what super heroes are. Something like adding centaurs to CO doesn't feel very superhero like. It feels more like a fantasy game. And yes there are magical elements to superheroes and some in CO ... but they are not overwhelming elements, They blend into the story and cannon. This idea doesn't blend. It's also a very demanding resource drain, for something that only a small number of people would be interested in.
This is RiverOcean's 2nd Account. Can't combine my STO and CO accounts for some weird reason.
i rate it on the same level, as the people who want to play a villain in a superhero game. Yes, you have villains in the stories, doesn't mean you should be able to play them.
ok you're a villain or the correct term, a criminal(we'll leave off the obvious discussion of 'normal' player behaviour)
NPC vendors won't deal with you, they are hero aligned.
PRIMUS trainers won't deal with you- lore says that.also hero aligned.
Mission givers won't deal with you- you're a criminal.
NPC mobs- you can't farm, they are villains therefore friendly.
NPC villain trainers- any with even 2 braincells to rub together, are going to make damn sure they don't get spotted in Millenium city or even the other zones which have much smaller hero numbers. They sure aren't going to have anything to do with a VISIBLE supervillain. That would come under criminal stupidity.
I don't want the game to spend resources developing quadrupedal models/costumes/animations for characters, but CO already has created a situation where many combinations exist that don't mesh with common understandings of super hero comics. I use the term jokingly, but we've all seen some version of the "wolf/dragon/cyborg", perhaps the "undead/wolf/cyborg/demon", or the "undead/dragon/ninja". Characters like these are unlikely, at best, in superhero comics, yet they are made and played.
Though I agree with the idea that centaurs and similar creatures don't fit superhero comics, I don't think that applies to CO. That ship sailed a long time ago, crewed by "shark/cyborg/ninja/pirates".
actually heroics and villainy are ethical viewpoints. you don't need one to be the other.
heroes are generally(but not always) law abiding but the main point is they go out of their way to help others. They don't need to wait for a villain to be heroic .
villains can be law abiding but their aims are to help themselves with little or no regard for others.
Just hear me out for a moment...ok..so, horse people don't fit in a comic universe, only humans. I would buy this, if there were no horse people in comics.
I've been reading comics for a long time. I don't recall any centaurs - not even in the Legion of Superheroes or the Green Lantern Corps, both of which are composed mostly of aliens. There's a Lantern who is an egg with tentacles, and one that's a living planet, but no centaurs that I can recall. (The Legion are almost all either humanoid or sapient energy fields.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
"This game is about superheroes and while I'm sure you could give me an example of a handful of four-legged superheroes, it's just way too niche in my opinion, and wouldn't really have a place here."
And..
"Let me put it this way. Let's pretend you had an MMO that was all swords and sorcery. No guns in sight anywhere because they haven't been invented yet or whatever. Someone says "You know what this game needs? Guns! I know it's a fantasy game, but I've seen guns in fantasy games before. And not only guns, but like steam tanks and steam-powered robots and rideable steam-dragons! How cool would that be?!""
As others have pointed out, CO has already crossed that line. There are guns, swords, and sorcery in CO; his example does not fit here, the concepts are wizards, etc.
You're having a real hard time understanding the things I say.
First of all, I'm the first that pointed out that there is fantasy-based stuff in this game already. Your posts come off like I'm some kind of ignoramus that isn't at all familiar with this game.
Second, just because some fantasy stuff is in, doesn't mean all fantasy stuff has a place.
My example was for a hypothetical game. I was drawing parallels between asking for guns in fantasy games and centaurs in a modern superhero setting. If you don't see the connection there, then I can only imagine that talking to you further would be like talking to a potted plant.
Keep in mind that there are fantasy games that have guns in them. Even though "the concepts are wizards, etc."
I've been reading comics for a long time. I don't recall any centaurs - not even in the Legion of Superheroes or the Green Lantern Corps, both of which are composed mostly of aliens. There's a Lantern who is an egg with tentacles, and one that's a living planet, but no centaurs that I can recall. (The Legion are almost all either humanoid or sapient energy fields.)
Read more than, provided links.
Actually, I'd like to see some links provided by you that supports any sort of claim that Centaurs and other four-legged friend-people are popular in superhero comics. I mean, here, check this out:
There's a link for you that has like a million and a half superheroes. Let's see how many centaurs you can find in there to prove your point.
I read plenty of comics too, and the amount of centaurs I've seen in them is like, probably zero. Your suggestion to just "read more, then" is just you trying to deflect the problem. You're trying to prove that it's a common enough idea, you show us.
Centaurs is a furry fandom not a super hero thing, regardless of the belief. Even the place you think you would see them, Thor, has never really shown a centaur like creature unless they were background things, or at best, a villain that was to be slapped around and defeated.
The only thing you've proven is that centaurs belong far, far in the background in a superhero setting. So far that you'd maybe see one in the audience in the Forum Malvanum and that's it..
They are a total and complete niche, (just like I said in my first reply) and that is hardly something that belongs in the forefront (meaning, player characters).
You're honestly grasping at straws here. Also, you haven't found any evidence that they exist in the Champions universe at all, and that's more relevant than if they exist in Marvel or DC comics. Barring that, you should probably just agree on the fact that you're asking for a totally fringe idea to become a main feature here.
So you went to the DC wiki. And you found not seven titles, or even a trivial seven characters, but seven comics pages that mention centaurs. And from Marvel? You dug up a single entry on a villain so obscure (and frankly, so stupid - makes our demon/ninja/robot/catgirls look sensible) that no one has ever actually heard of him.
Not exactly bolstering your case here. Or should we be pushing for people to be able to play dogs because of Krypto, and because there were two titles back in the day that featured dogs (Rin Tin Tin and Rex the Wonder Dog, as I recall)? Hell, make "unpowered, unskilled normal" an Archetype - plenty of those in the background in comics, right? Doesn't everyone want to play a background character?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Not sure this has been discussed before, but anyway, I was on the City of Titans official page (excited about the game btw), and there was an interesting discussion there. The developers were discussing travel powers and movement modes. Later in the thread, we started to talk about the possibility of a quadrupedal hero stance, as an alternate to the typical two legged form. The developers brought up a centaur, but yea, something like that.
Now, I am not saying CO will do it. If a MMO were to do this, animation sets must be made for each groups; the humans and animals.
What do you guys/gals think? Ever wanted to play as a true quadrupedal as opposed to the hunchback beast stance? Think it would be cool to have a quadrupedal or two legger option from the character creation screen? Imo, this would be sweet to see some heroes resembling Mega-Terak running around.
Also, a limb option would be pretty neat, four legs, four arms, etc.
Obviously it would require a ton of work, Thoughts on quadrupedal heroes?
I think it's a dumb idea. I never wanted to play as a four legged anything. I would not think it's cool on a super hero game designed after westernized style comic book in the iron/silver/golden era.
My thoughts on quadrupedal heroes are that it just seems like a waste of development time for too many reasons that I'd personally rather not list.
No disrespect, I'm just answering the topic questions.
.....are a part of greek mythology. So, how can one fit, but not the other? Either mythology/fantasy does not fit, or it does, can't have it both ways.
In comics, characters like that are usually very fringe. They are usually minor players or members of a strange race (maybe even magical) race the hero encounters. In other words, NPC's. The whole thing about superheroes is that they are idealized human beings. Sure Superman is an alien, but he's a very attractive human looking alien. Wonder Woman and Thor are mythological creatures but they are very human looking. And so on.
Even a big green mutant like the HULK is an idealized human. That's basically what super heroes are. Something like adding centaurs to CO doesn't feel very superhero like. It feels more like a fantasy game. And yes there are magical elements to superheroes and some in CO ... but they are not overwhelming elements, They blend into the story and cannon. This idea doesn't blend. It's also a very demanding resource drain, for something that only a small number of people would be interested in.
Just because a mythology fits, doesn't mean that all parts have to fit. You'll more likely find Hera becoming the Queen of Massachusetts in a comic long before Medusa, the half-snake gorgon, in the same role. It's Thor who came from Asgard to become a superhero, not the Minotaur. Superman had Krypto, a nice, seemingly purebred faithful dog, not Cerberus, the three-headed hellhound. Some things fit, and some don't.
Yes, Champions lets you play as some silly things, but these silly things are mostly-humanoid. Being a half horse is not popular by a long shot in superhero comics, and would probably be just as popular in Champions.
Most comic book universes are gigantic kitchen sinks, so just about anything exists in there somewhere. They are, however, a vanishingly small category, dropping well below ordinary animals (non-centaur).
I'm going to have to agree with Biff here - a non-humanoid character is not a good fit for a superhero setting. Could it exist? Sure. Would I use such an option if it were available in-game? Absolutely. Is it a good fit for the setting? No, I don't think it is.
And the reason I think that is because, imo, a superhero setting is ultimately about humans - it's about how humans deal with power and responsibility, anonymity and danger. In that context, the less clearly human a character is, the less of a fit they are. Sure, we've got aliens (Superman) or gods (Thor) - but those characters are still fundamentally human in ways that a worg or a centaur or a dragon are not.
Of course, fit or no fit, I'd still love to have more options available in-game - but I don't expect to see anything more complicated than perhaps a genie aura that replaces the character's lower half with a trailing cone of swirling air like the become device.
You are dancing around my sentiments big time brah......you will not address centaurs directly, because i provided proof, but you are being vague, by saying all. Fine, i will play your game, all can indeed fit, actually, a number are in the comic universe, including creatures, because they are tied to greek mythology, hence you will see hercules vs the hydra.
Goodness. The only thing you're proving with every link you post is that centaurs and the like are so marginal that they barely deserve to be mentioned and definitely don't deserve to be featured.
I'm not dancing around anything. I've said several times straight up, centaurs are a bad fit, for various reasons I and almost everyone else has already mentioned, but you completely ignore everything.
"You'll more likely find Hera becoming the Queen of Massachusetts in a comic long before Medusa, the half-snake gorgon, in the same role. It's Thor who came from Asgard to become a superhero, not the Minotaur. Superman had Krypto, a nice, seemingly purebred faithful dog, not Cerberus, the three-headed hellhound. Some things fit, and some don't."
Of course, because Minotaurs among other creatures are usually the villain. However, that is not the argument, you are ducking my question big time, for the last few pages ever since ppl called you out on the fantasy does not fit comment.
I'm gonna try to make this clear one last time. A nice, big font should work:
I didn't say fantasy elements don't fit, I said centaurs as player characters don't fit.
My point is this, they fit, because they exist..... ...now...answer my question because I have answered yours, do Centaurs, Minotaurs exist in the comic universe? Yes or no?
Do they exist in Champions? Minotaurs? Nope. Half-man half-bull Manimal, yes. Centaurs, nope. If you have evidence of the contrary, show me a screenshot. Question answered.
Actually scratch that, you already conceded that they do, "You'll more likely find Hera becoming the Queen of Massachusetts in a comic long before Medusa, the half-snake gorgon, in the same role."
Well then, how can they not fit? You mean that you just don't want to see them? or you feel that mythology in comics is out of place (In your opinion/imo)? if that is the case, cool, but coming off like it is a fact that they do not fit is silly, considering they are in comics. Like saying Wizards don't fit in CO, but yet, it is an archetype concept in-game. You could say, "Well, imo wizards and fanstasy do not fit in comics" That is cool, its your opinion.
They (Medusa, Cerberus, other monsters) fit in the sense that they could exist in the setting. They don't fit as main-focus protagonists in a game about superheroes.
If something like Teleiosaurus were added to Onslaught, pretty much kills alot in this thread, as it pertains to CO.
I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion. Allowing players to control an animal-style supervillain is absolutely fine within all the context that Onslaught brings with it.
I'm not sure why you think it "kills a lot" in this thread. These animals are villains, not superheroes, and definitely not something you can just pick in the character creator.
Mechanically, Mega-Terak is not much different than letting us play Grond. We can't have heroes with four arms, but Grond's got 'em. The reason it works is because Grond already has his animations (I think they did have to do some animation work but I'm not sure) that work with the "costume pieces" he and other grondlings use. It's fine because we can say for certain you won't see Grond throwing force cascades or spinning chains around.
And for the record, I'd be against being able to play a dinosaur like Teleiosaurus and other Teleiosaurs. Even though they clearly belong in the game, they clearly don't belong as superheroes. Same reason why I'm against having centaurs.
If something like Teleiosaurus were added to Onslaught, pretty much kills alot in this thread, as it pertains to CO.
Teleiosaurus would be like Grond -- extensively crippled in terms of animations, which would be masked by the fact that it can't use any powers other than those built into the template, so other than emotes not working you mostly wouldn't notice.
"FIT in the way that you want them to is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than simply EXISTING"
Hand cannons like the X-buster, light sabers, or space jets do not fit in a game like Elder Scrolls Online because it is medievil-esque, hence they simply do not exist.
They (Medusa, Cerberus, other monsters) fit in the sense that they could exist in the setting. They don't fit as main-focus protagonists in a game about superheroes.
Maybe not Bat-Man, but to a mythological character, they will most likely battle creatures based upon mythology at some point, aka The Twelve Labors of Hercules.
Yes, finally, thank you. They would fit as something you fight or something off in the background.
Do they exist in Champions? Minotaurs? Nope. Half-man half-bull Manimal, yes. Centaurs, nope. If you have evidence of the contrary, show me a screenshot.
Of course you dodged my question again, but I am a nice guy, and will continue to answer yours, because it is so fun to pick them apart
Yes they exist in comics. Yes they belong in comics. Great, you got the very exact answer you want, which still means squat. "It belongs as a main feature in the game because they exist in a tiny little margin in other comic book universes" is the absolute worst argument you can make, but that's the one you're making.
Nothing is stopping me from breaking the game, while killing the hero vibe by creating a bull/hoove hero whom stands on his two feet named Minotaur......Centaur? Nah, does not exist, in CO, hence the point of this thread?
..This is kind of fun...lol...try again? Will refresh page every now and then, going to play some XI.
I find it hilarious that your idea of fun is just a complete lack of understanding of very simple terms. But hey, who am I to judge.
Give it up, Biff. I know "troll" is kind of verboten as a descriptor, but this guy appears to be arguing merely for the sake of arguing. There's no point in responding with reasoned discussion, because that's not the realm he's operating in.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Comments
This came about a long time ago when I was discussing the topic with my brother. On the forums, people were trying to include whatever genre they really liked into being "superhero" stuff so they could feel justified in asking for costumes and/or content of that type.
And in the end, with their inclusion of every type of thing, the definition of superhero is "anyone who can do anything that a normal person can't." And while that sounds fine to some people at first - because now Goku is a superhero, the guy from Devil May Cry is a superhero, Cloud Strife is a superhero - then it also means that pokemon are superheroes, the teletubbies are superheroes, Mario is a superhero, Pac-Man is a superhero. Basically anything can be.
It's such ridiculous self-serving dilution that got me to think about what a superhero really is. Which brings me to: This very fine definition of superheroes. The bolded part above is a part that most people don't even consider. To me, it has to be a setting that recognizes that superheroes exist. That's not to say that a setting couldn't exist that had only one supehero, but if that's the case, he needs other superhero tropes to sit him squarely in the superhero category. Does he wear a costume? Does he wear a mask and/or have a secret identity? Does he use his powers to fight crime and/or evil? If you don't check off at least some of these boxes, then I don't consider it a superhero.
Take Powder, for instance. He could do things that normal people cannot do, but he didn't have a secret identity, didn't use his powers to fight crime or evil, he didn't live in a world that recognized superheroes are real, and he didn't have any sort of costume. That's why you don't find Powder in the superhero section of anything. It's not just the character, it's the setting, too. I can just imagine a centaur running around with wall-crawling.
Second, a1, why pretend you're only interested in gathering opinions when you argue so fiercely against opinions other than your own?
Third, I started skimming when you said a CoT dev was "thinking about this". CoT "devs" have been thinking about a lot of things, for quite some time. Haven't seen much of it come to life, though. I can "think about" writing a novel, but that won't get a single page finished. I've been "thinking about" fixing that junkheap in my garage, but there it sits, not running at all. When the "devs" for that seeming blue-sky project start actually doing, not just "thinking about it", maybe I'll give them a bit of attention.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Anyway, he's probably referencing your condescending tones in some of your posts, like when you linked a webpage to me that explains what percentages are. As well as dismissing my side of the conversation as being clearly "false" despite lots of evidence to the contrary.
Sharing opinions is a discussion. Telling people their opinions are wrong is more of an argument.
Just sayin'. I'm not trying to revive that whole discussion.
What's going on is that Magic is ultimately the reasons certain forms of physics bending or outright physics breaking technology works, but the technology itself is still technology and would be coiuntered as any other technology would need to be. Castng an anti-magic field wouldn't prevent the technology from continuing to work.
basically, the magical origin of the Champions Earth setting happened a long time ago and it can't be *taken back* easily, unless the tides of magic themselves wane.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Shadowrun, and it's description of the magi-cyberpunk setting it's in being called "the sixth world"*, but it's a pretty similar concept. Magic is running high currently, and this allows all sorts of crazy stuff to occur that can't when magic is low. Including Superheroes with all sorts of non-magical explanations for their powers.
*the sixth time in Shadowrun's settings history known to 'immortals' like ancient elves and dragons that magic has run very high for an extended period.
Even a big green mutant like the HULK is an idealized human. That's basically what super heroes are. Something like adding centaurs to CO doesn't feel very superhero like. It feels more like a fantasy game. And yes there are magical elements to superheroes and some in CO ... but they are not overwhelming elements, They blend into the story and cannon. This idea doesn't blend. It's also a very demanding resource drain, for something that only a small number of people would be interested in.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
ok you're a villain or the correct term, a criminal(we'll leave off the obvious discussion of 'normal' player behaviour)
NPC vendors won't deal with you, they are hero aligned.
PRIMUS trainers won't deal with you- lore says that.also hero aligned.
Mission givers won't deal with you- you're a criminal.
NPC mobs- you can't farm, they are villains therefore friendly.
NPC villain trainers- any with even 2 braincells to rub together, are going to make damn sure they don't get spotted in Millenium city or even the other zones which have much smaller hero numbers. They sure aren't going to have anything to do with a VISIBLE supervillain. That would come under criminal stupidity.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Though I agree with the idea that centaurs and similar creatures don't fit superhero comics, I don't think that applies to CO. That ship sailed a long time ago, crewed by "shark/cyborg/ninja/pirates".
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Now don't get me wrong I know the devs will never allow me to live out my dream...
but all of the reasons you think my idea is stupid are wrong!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
heroes are generally(but not always) law abiding but the main point is they go out of their way to help others. They don't need to wait for a villain to be heroic .
villains can be law abiding but their aims are to help themselves with little or no regard for others.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
First of all, I'm the first that pointed out that there is fantasy-based stuff in this game already. Your posts come off like I'm some kind of ignoramus that isn't at all familiar with this game.
Second, just because some fantasy stuff is in, doesn't mean all fantasy stuff has a place.
My example was for a hypothetical game. I was drawing parallels between asking for guns in fantasy games and centaurs in a modern superhero setting. If you don't see the connection there, then I can only imagine that talking to you further would be like talking to a potted plant.
Keep in mind that there are fantasy games that have guns in them. Even though "the concepts are wizards, etc." Actually, I'd like to see some links provided by you that supports any sort of claim that Centaurs and other four-legged friend-people are popular in superhero comics. I mean, here, check this out:
http://marvel.com/comics/characters
There's a link for you that has like a million and a half superheroes. Let's see how many centaurs you can find in there to prove your point.
I read plenty of comics too, and the amount of centaurs I've seen in them is like, probably zero. Your suggestion to just "read more, then" is just you trying to deflect the problem. You're trying to prove that it's a common enough idea, you show us.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
They are a total and complete niche, (just like I said in my first reply) and that is hardly something that belongs in the forefront (meaning, player characters).
You're honestly grasping at straws here. Also, you haven't found any evidence that they exist in the Champions universe at all, and that's more relevant than if they exist in Marvel or DC comics. Barring that, you should probably just agree on the fact that you're asking for a totally fringe idea to become a main feature here.
Not exactly bolstering your case here. Or should we be pushing for people to be able to play dogs because of Krypto, and because there were two titles back in the day that featured dogs (Rin Tin Tin and Rex the Wonder Dog, as I recall)? Hell, make "unpowered, unskilled normal" an Archetype - plenty of those in the background in comics, right? Doesn't everyone want to play a background character?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I never wanted to play as a four legged anything.
I would not think it's cool on a super hero game designed after westernized style comic book in the iron/silver/golden era.
My thoughts on quadrupedal heroes are that it just seems like a waste of development time for too many reasons that I'd personally rather not list.
No disrespect, I'm just answering the topic questions.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Yes, Champions lets you play as some silly things, but these silly things are mostly-humanoid. Being a half horse is not popular by a long shot in superhero comics, and would probably be just as popular in Champions.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
And the reason I think that is because, imo, a superhero setting is ultimately about humans - it's about how humans deal with power and responsibility, anonymity and danger. In that context, the less clearly human a character is, the less of a fit they are. Sure, we've got aliens (Superman) or gods (Thor) - but those characters are still fundamentally human in ways that a worg or a centaur or a dragon are not.
Of course, fit or no fit, I'd still love to have more options available in-game - but I don't expect to see anything more complicated than perhaps a genie aura that replaces the character's lower half with a trailing cone of swirling air like the become device.
I'm not dancing around anything. I've said several times straight up, centaurs are a bad fit, for various reasons I and almost everyone else has already mentioned, but you completely ignore everything. Uh huh, I never said that fantasy elements were never in any comics setting. FIT in the way that you want them to is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than simply EXISTING.
Sharks (not shark people) EXIST in champions. Sharks don't FIT as an option for player characters.
See the difference? Who am I kidding, no, you don't. I'm gonna try to make this clear one last time. A nice, big font should work:
I didn't say fantasy elements don't fit, I said centaurs as player characters don't fit.
Do they exist in Champions? Minotaurs? Nope. Half-man half-bull Manimal, yes. Centaurs, nope. If you have evidence of the contrary, show me a screenshot.Question answered. They (Medusa, Cerberus, other monsters) fit in the sense that they could exist in the setting. They don't fit as main-focus protagonists in a game about superheroes.
I'm not sure why you think it "kills a lot" in this thread. These animals are villains, not superheroes, and definitely not something you can just pick in the character creator.
Mechanically, Mega-Terak is not much different than letting us play Grond. We can't have heroes with four arms, but Grond's got 'em. The reason it works is because Grond already has his animations (I think they did have to do some animation work but I'm not sure) that work with the "costume pieces" he and other grondlings use. It's fine because we can say for certain you won't see Grond throwing force cascades or spinning chains around.
And for the record, I'd be against being able to play a dinosaur like Teleiosaurus and other Teleiosaurs. Even though they clearly belong in the game, they clearly don't belong as superheroes. Same reason why I'm against having centaurs.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It just needs a bolt in the head and made into glue.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods