CHAMPIONS ONLINE: STATE OF THE GAME - 10/29/15

themightyzenith

So I see this was published and a post was made in the 'UNTIL Field Reports' section of these forums about it by crypticarcane. Also very noticable that we are not able to comment on that post

Here it is.... http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/9623143-champions-online:-state-of-the-game (copy/pasted below)

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"These last few months have been busy, and we’d like to give new players and old an overview of what we’ve been doing.

Updated New User Experience – We’ve updated the new user experience to be faster and more streamlined to give new players a better introduction to the game.
New Lockboxes – We’ve kept introducing new vehicles, costumes, and auras, and started introducing new Ultimate Powers for our Freeform players.
Event Updates – We’ve revised our event system, getting rid of the hourly updates in favor of longer-term Special Events with bigger bonuses to them. We’ve also started doing event refreshes, adding new gameplay, an event store, and new rewards to events.
Onslaught Gameplay – We’ve added a new type of gameplay to Champions in the form of “Onslaught Supervillains”, allowing you to become powerful raid-level supervillains rampaging across Millennium City.


We’ve got more things coming too!

New Lockbox Types - We’ve going to keep changing up what we put in Lockboxes.
Players don’t always want to see the same types of vehicles and costumes, so we’re going to be introducing new ways to customize and power-up your heroes!
New End-Game Content – You’ve got multiple top-end heroes and the best gear in the game: what do you do now? Well, we want to throw some epic new challenges your way! Get ready to save the world again!
Quality of Life Improvements – We’re taking a look at some of the persistent bugs we’ve had in the game and taking some time to address these issues.


Finally, we’d like to introduce a new member to the Champions Online team: Kaiserin! She’s been a very active member of the Champions Online community for years and is now working with us at Cryptic Studios. Welcome aboard, Kaiserin!"

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So did you guys read the SotG and what do you think?

For me it's great news about Kaiserin, but the rest is just vague vagueness. Pretty pointless SoTG.....they should have just stuck to a post telling us about Kaiserin's appointment.

jonsills

They get specific, and pretty soon we once again get people wailing about "broken promises" that were never actually made. At least there's some communication going on here.

themightyzenith

jonsills said:

They get specific, and pretty soon we once again get people wailing about "broken promises" that were never actually made. At least there's some communication going on here.

There is specific and there is the astounding vagueness in that SoTG. Some communication may be happening but no real information is being given to warrant that announcement being a "State of the Game", imo.

So what did you think of the SotG, jon?

thegrandnagus1

It's nice that they finally did a State of the Game, but it didn't actually tell us anything we don't already know. Obviously, there will be new lockboxes. Obviously they are going to make some kind of new content, at some point. Obviously they are going to fix bugs here and there. None of that is really telling us anything new, but oh well.

pantagruel01

It's appropriate to have some sort of post announcing a new dev, and that's mostly what this SotG accomplishes.

rianfrost

well

jonsills said:

They get specific, and pretty soon we once again get people wailing about "broken promises" that were never actually made. At least there's some communication going on here.

you know, i haven't seen an mmo forum that i have played on where that doesn't happen to some degree, and yet most of the other dev houses are much more open. that's not actually a convincing reason. but again, they only can tell us what they know, and i think its more that they don't know how much they can stretch with the small amount of funds they get, as they do the best they can with very little.
as to the sotg, honestly, im glad we got one, its super vague and they really dont mention much, as is standard for co, no new zones or powersets. though i am holding out some hope for the endgame thing, maybe we can get some smaller instanced areas there, but beyond that i'm going to hold off on the lockboxes to see if its purchasable too by regular means. like auras. if the new customization things are lockbox exclusive, then its worthless to me. if i can also get what i want with a deterministic rewards program, then i'm fine with it, they have to get money somehow, and some people like gambling, i don't. the rest is just bugfixes and while that's not really new content, i remember liking the tail and wing sliders, so that could be good for here as well.
and of course, congrats to kaiserin, Any word of new devs is good, and i don't have any negative feelings to her, so great for her, maybe great for us too, too early to tell.

xrazamax

State of the game post shouldn't contain details about things not confirmed to be coming out. They are just overall big picture views of the direction a game is headed. I think they explained that pretty clearly. It goes without saying champions has been unfairly neglected for a while. Their state of the game post was to show that this is no longer the case, and they are focusing on fixing bugs and quality of life, giving better value to their montinization options , end game content , the tailor and costume pieces. Which is great because that's what people want them to focus on.

I can understand anyone being upset that there were no announcements regarding new content, but new content is probably best left to its own announcement post

dr490nbr347hi

It's pretty barebones and didn't go into specifics, but this is our first SotG in what...3 years? I'm feeling really good now.

championshewolf

dr490nbr347hi wrote: »

It's pretty barebones and didn't go into specifics, but this is our first SotG in what...3 years? I'm feeling really good now.

It is good to have something but yea, it as extra bare bones. They say endgame content, well what does it mean? Dungeons, raids, just big world bosses what? Does this mean UNITY is being expanded? Does this mean new types of gear and/or mods? Does this mean difficulty levels? And those are basic questions.

I am glad we got some information but it is still really too vague to get any ideas.​​

jonsills

championshewolf said:

It is good to have something but yea, it as extra bare bones. They say endgame content, well what does it mean? Dungeons, raids, just big world bosses what? Does this mean UNITY is being expanded? Does this mean new types of gear and/or mods? Does this mean difficulty levels? And those are basic questions.



I am glad we got some information but it is still really too vague to get any ideas.​​

It means they've decided what "endgame" is besides making new toons. And now that they've figured that out (probably with Kai's help), they want to actually do something about it for a change.

championshewolf

jonsills wrote: »

It means they've decided what "endgame" is besides making new toons. And now that they've figured that out (probably with Kai's help), they want to actually do something about it for a change.

No, it really doesn't. Endgame has been defined in this industry easily for ten years if not longer. It still tells us nothing other than they are working on it.​​

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championshewolf

bluegrassbeast wrote: »

Spar, need to let this 'but in other games' angle go, truly.

Still, its a SotG. That we have one at all is a positive sign in my jaded book.

Not really. The angle that needs to be let go is "Champions is different" which is demonstrably a false statement.

And I am not being negative about the SoTG but it was sparse and still leaves more questions than answers.​​

xrazamax

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Saying that they will focus on end game content is really all we need to know at this point. They might not have any specific end game content built at this point to announce or show off

jonsills

Spar, I don't know what this "industry agreement" is that you're on about, but I can tell you that no three people in these forums seem to be able to agree on it - I've watched far too many discussions on the topic devolve into arguments, then ad hominem, then flames.

And if you mean we should have the same "endgame" as, say, WoW - "seasons" of gear? Really? What is this, an MMO or a fashion shop? (And if you want to see gear inflation get really out of hand, well...)

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ashensnow

The SotG worked for me simply because it conveys a sense that the devs have intentions, and plans, for the game's future. May not mean much to others but it resonated with me.

championshewolf

bluegrassbeast wrote: »

Freeform, lack of trinity focus, lesser focus on gear......

But keep telling yourself that.

Freeform? You mean the thing many MMOs use now?

Lack of Trinity focus because of ease of gameplay? What?

Lesser focus on gear? Ok this one is a bold faced lie because gear is as important, if not more so, than the powers you pick.

Again, demonstrably proven wrong.​​

kemmicals

I think I'm mostly just happy for Kaiserin. As for the other stuff they have planned, I really dunno. It seems pretty promising, but then I'm kinda used to lowering my expectations for some of the things in development.

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raighn

The SotG was in my opinion far too vague... however, what i'm looking at the most from this is the promise of fixing bugs... there aree far to many bugs in CO that have been around for years on end, many of wich have been present since before I started playing...

bluegrassbeast said:

"Because Spar Said So!"TM

I'm sorrry, but she is right atleast about the gear focus... Gear in CO is without a doubt one of the most important things to any build.

heroshima1

I took the end game content comment as them expanding the Moon missions like they said they were going to do when Mechanon was released. I could be wrong, but at least it's something relevant they mentioned in the past.

championshewolf

raighn wrote: »

I'm sorrry, but she is right atleast about the gear focus... Gear in CO is without a doubt one of the most important things to any build.

Well, gear is not the only thing. Champions is not the only game that offers up freeform structure and character building.

The Secret World is another prime example of this but if we want to dig further, you also have games like Ultima Online, EVE Online, RIFT, Guild Wars 2, The Elder Scrolls Online and a few others. Hell even most class based games now are also much more freeform and allowing choice in how players are allowed to build and structure their characters. WoW and SWTOR allow players to have differing choices even within the same character to do multiple things even with the same character. You aren't hardlocked into one thing outside of a select few things.

And the whole trinity system has always been a weak excuse by players, because even in Guild Wars 2 there was always someone who built for tanking and others who built for supporting, at least if you planned for your team to make it through those dungeons. Only in games where the challenge was hollow or non-existent was the trinity really worthless. Hell, even in EVE Online they have their own versions of roles and specialists as the corporate fleets have people who specialize in specific things to make sure their fleet is efficient for battles.

The whole anti-role argument has always really made me laugh, since the argument never really was about roles, as even in the comics the various heroes take on specific roles they are strongest at, because if they don't then the well organized "villains" often wreck their stuff... and it becomes a major story arc for many super teams that they have to over come their differences and work as a team in order to over come a bad guy or a group of bad guys. And the only reason people argue about the whole role thing is in general they don't want to need anyone else's help because they believe it's an unfair thing because taking on an epicly powerful villain is suppose to be easy or something.

But eh, if "Spar says so" is the best answer they got, then it shows they don't bother to actually take a look around the industry.​​

itsbrou

I hope we go to **** ***** **** ******. The **** looks amazing and kinda familiar.

raighn

championshewolf said:

Well, gear is not the only thing. Champions is not the only game that offers up freeform structure and character building.



The Secret World is another prime example of this but if we want to dig further, you also have games like Ultima Online, EVE Online, RIFT, Guild Wars 2, The Elder Scrolls Online and a few others. Hell even most class based games now are also much more freeform and allowing choice in how players are allowed to build and structure their characters. WoW and SWTOR allow players to have differing choices even within the same character to do multiple things even with the same character. You aren't hardlocked into one thing outside of a select few things.



And the whole trinity system has always been a weak excuse by players, because even in Guild Wars 2 there was always someone who built for tanking and others who built for supporting, at least if you planned for your team to make it through those dungeons. Only in games where the challenge was hollow or non-existent was the trinity really worthless. Hell, even in EVE Online they have their own versions of roles and specialists as the corporate fleets have people who specialize in specific things to make sure their fleet is efficient for battles.



The whole anti-role argument has always really made me laugh, since the argument never really was about roles, as even in the comics the various heroes take on specific roles they are strongest at, because if they don't then the well organized "villains" often wreck their stuff... and it becomes a major story arc for many super teams that they have to over come their differences and work as a team in order to over come a bad guy or a group of bad guys. And the only reason people argue about the whole role thing is in general they don't want to need anyone else's help because they believe it's an unfair thing because taking on an epicly powerful villain is suppose to be easy or something.



But eh, if "Spar says so" is the best answer they got, then it shows they don't bother to actually take a look around the industry.​​

Sorry, but drop GW2 from that list... i believe you meant GW1... in GW2 the whole idea of "freeform" was killed... your only choices are your wepons and what seccondary skills from your class you wish to use... your actually pretty well locked into specific build types per class... GW2's system is closer to the Archetype system that CO should have had instead of what it got.. it's not actually FF... as for team dynamics, all roles in GW2 are perfectly viable in team up until you build a Condition Damage character... then you find yourself hating team mates for the exact same reason CC players here disslike playing with teams... other players rendering your entire build useless (in GW2 the all stacks of Conditions {dots} deal damage based on the most recent application, and since just about everyone can apply conditions as secondary effects, the damage is constantly resetting to lower damage values and durations...) GW1 on the other hand had much closer to an actual FF system...

rianfrost

bluegrassbeast said:

Freeform, lack of trinity focus, lesser focus on gear......

But keep telling yourself that.

i think "lack of trinity focus" is a bit of a false goal, because while the "trinity" has been explicit in some games, i think it also breaks down to very pragmatic elements. at any given time you can make a choice of an action, either your action harms an enemy, supports the team by applying a debuff, buff or healing to mitigate incoming damage, or you control aggro "tanking", though crowd control powers also fit from a practical perspective" just about every combat action is going to fall on one of those axes, and your gear and build will dictate that you will do one better than the other two, so even if you have modest abilities in 2 categories, one role will be situationally best for the makeup of your group, so there will always be roles, ridding yourself of that involves a very radical change in combat..and i'd be ok with that, but expect it to take some work to make, balance and convince people used to the old ways that its better, but its probably best to accept reality as it is and work on how to remove the stigma of roles by making them more engaging to play. not sure if co has the remaining manpower or budget to attempt the former, but the latter might be a worthwhile goal.

championshewolf

raighn wrote: »

Sorry, but drop GW2 from that list... i believe you meant GW1... in GW2 the whole idea of "freeform" was killed... your only choices are your wepons and what seccondary skills from your class you wish to use... your actually pretty well locked into specific build types per class... GW2's system is closer to the Archetype system that CO should have had instead of what it got.. it's not actually FF... as for team dynamics, all roles in GW2 are perfectly viable in team up until you build a Condition Damage character... then you find yourself hating team mates for the exact same reason CC players here disslike playing with teams... other players rendering your entire build useless (in GW2 the all stacks of Conditions {dots} deal damage based on the most recent application, and since just about everyone can apply conditions as secondary effects, the damage is constantly resetting to lower damage values and durations...) GW1 on the other hand had much closer to an actual FF system...

I would agree with you if, and this is the big part, if changing a few abilities specialties and such around didn't really completely change how your class played. You can make your character a DPS a support or a tank or try to even hybridize to your hearts content and achieve similar results. So yea, GW2 fits in that camp quite well. I may not like the game, but I still can't deny it pulls off the freeform still.​​

rianfrost

actually terra, i had some happy news that gw2 apparently got free from ncsoft and now is just arenanets game. it was always a nice game, and now i could finally go back without the stench. so now, until co gets some new zones or plant powers, the journey of talus frostdrake, the unusually friendly Charr ash legion infiltrator can continue.

championshewolf

rianfrost wrote: »

actually terra, i had some happy news that gw2 apparently got free from ncsoft and now is just arenanets game. it was always a nice game, and now i could finally go back without the stench. so now, until co gets some new zones or plant powers, the journey of talus frostdrake, the unusually friendly Charr ash legion infiltrator can continue.

My problem with GW2 had nothing to do with the company, but more or less the game play. So I don't see how that is happy news.​​

spinnytop

I'm just glad this wasn't another one of those awful player-written SotGs.




New End-Game Content – You’ve got multiple top-end heroes and the best gear in the game: what do you do now? Well, we want to throw some epic new challenges your way! Get ready to save the world again!

^ I hope they deliver on that one super hard. Hard enough to make Bluegrass bleed out a whole ocean of tears!

rianfrost

championshewolf said:

rianfrost wrote: »

actually terra, i had some happy news that gw2 apparently got free from ncsoft and now is just arenanets game. it was always a nice game, and now i could finally go back without the stench. so now, until co gets some new zones or plant powers, the journey of talus frostdrake, the unusually friendly Charr ash legion infiltrator can continue.

My problem with GW2 had nothing to do with the company, but more or less the game play. So I don't see how that is happy news.​​

i understand that, but for me it was exclusively about the company, i enjoyed the game and the robust continuing development, but ncsoft never gets another penny. so it was happy for me.
hmm quotes are a bit funky here.

championshewolf

rianfrost wrote: »

i understand that, but for me it was exclusively about the company, i enjoyed the game and the robust continuing development, but ncsoft never gets another penny. so it was happy for me.
hmm quotes are a bit funky here.

Yes, yes, I know the misguided dichotomy of baseless accusations because a beloved franchise died.​​

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rianfrost

championshewolf said:

rianfrost wrote: »

i understand that, but for me it was exclusively about the company, i enjoyed the game and the robust continuing development, but ncsoft never gets another penny. so it was happy for me.

hmm quotes are a bit funky here.

Yes, yes, I know the misguided dichotomy of baseless accusations because a beloved franchise died.​​



wow, that was a surprisingly aggressive response, i was just happy to see gw2 was not being published by nc, thats all, not sure where you are getting any accusations from, but ok, got it, light hearted digressions are a bad idea, sorry for bothering you.

xcelsior41

bluegrassbeast said:

Freeform, lack of trinity focus, lesser focus on gear......

But keep telling yourself that.

In rampages that lack of trinity focus kinda is non-existant, or atleast, from my experience of hearing on Zone the recruitments for Rampages, it is.

itsbrou

xcelsior41 said:

bluegrassbeast said:

Freeform, lack of trinity focus, lesser focus on gear......

But keep telling yourself that.

In rampages that lack of trinity focus kinda is non-existant, or atleast, from my experience of hearing on Zone the recruitments for Rampages, it is.

F&I is extra demanding of a trinity in both pugs and PQ. Hybrids get pushed out pretty fast due to not being focused 100% on tanking or healing. DPS can suck as much as they want to.

biffsmackwell

someguywhoplaysgames said:

DPS can suck as much as they want to.

Does this mean I will be accepted into some groups?!

pantagruel01

bluegrassbeast said:

Spin-to-Lose, you still don't get that I don't hate challenge, I hate fake challenge and I hate tedium.

And have an unreasonably narrow definition of "real challenge".

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xcelsior41

bluegrassbeast said:

Not really

"No RNG bullcrap" and "no changing the rules with no warning or precedence" is a pretty simple baseline.

I agree with make RNG more in line, but I'm not too sure what you mean by "no changing the rules"

xcelsior41

someguywhoplaysgames said:

xcelsior41 said:

bluegrassbeast said:

Freeform, lack of trinity focus, lesser focus on gear......

But keep telling yourself that.

In rampages that lack of trinity focus kinda is non-existant, or atleast, from my experience of hearing on Zone the recruitments for Rampages, it is.

F&I is extra demanding of a trinity in both pugs and PQ. Hybrids get pushed out pretty fast due to not being focused 100% on tanking or healing. DPS can suck as much as they want to.

Preeetty Much, brou

sigmaseven0

My prediction is that endgame content will be the lairs revamped for lv 40 with new rewards.

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spinnytop

bluegrassbeast said:

You also seem to think I actually care what you think about me, and that indeed anyone here actually cares about your opinions at all.

Sad little ego on a sad little hill.

Okay, there's your Treat, I acknowledged you. Now shoo, onto the next house with you.

I don't think that word means what you think it means

paladincoh

ashensnow said:

The SotG worked for me simply because it conveys a sense that the devs have intentions, and plans, for the game's future. May not mean much to others but it resonated with me.

Hit the nail on the head for me as well. Glad to see it.

beezeeze

lockouts are nothing new now and I don't see why we shouldn't keep them, gives people with res powers something useful to do every now and then. RGN moves that deal out poptentailly fatal damage? Yeah kinda cheap...but again gives those ressers something to do. Do you want to devaule their build choices by making one of their abilites totally pointless just so you can feel more invincible!?(Yeah didn't think so! you probably didn't even think about that!)

raighn

beezeeze said:

Do you want to devaule their build choices by making one of their abilites totally pointless just so you can feel more invincible!?(Yeah didn't think so! you probably didn't even think about that!)

Considering that theres already been CC devalued for that very reason before... I wouldn't put it past some people in this community to answer that question with a "yes"...

stellariodragon

We need like a cosmic with a ton of HP that switches around techniques randomly, and not based on HP.

chaelk

I'd feel a lot better about it, if I hadn't found an Interview by Rob Obermeyer(?) in MMORG, about all the development planned after On Alert.
But at least they are trying.
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standard arguments starting on page one. This thread shouldn't last long.

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spinnytop

pantagruel01 said:

bluegrassbeast said:

Spin-to-Lose, you still don't get that I don't hate challenge, I hate fake challenge and I hate tedium.

And have an unreasonably narrow definition of "real challenge".

Based around the misguided notion that this game is meant to make players feel like Super Man fighting a group of common street thugs.