Completely agree that ITC is the main cause of everyones Gripe with TR. It is way too advantageous. Between ITC and proper timing of DF and dodges, a good TR will show how broken ITC allows them to be. If you take that piece out of the puzzle, they quickly become much more balanced. But obviously we cant get rid of a skill, so it needs a rework. I say CC break and Deflect buff. No CC immunity. WKs don't have it and they can do just fine. Deflect severity of 75% already makes guaranteed deflect a beefy sort of CC mitigator.
Mighty leap turning all damage incoming to zero, and weirdly, lowering the damage of SE by a lot for some weird reason, shown in the parenthesis.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
I've been hit with SE while in mid air during my jump using mighty leap. I've been rooted by HRs in mid air and hit with Icy Rays in mid air using mighty leap. The tool tip says you dodge enemy attacks but it does not appear to have an immunity frame like a real dodge. It's useless as an attack and not a reliable defense against ranged classes who's attacks auto target you. It's fun to use, so is PC, because moving fast is fun. But when your entire rotation does 8k on dummies, only has one very short stun and everyone is running around with 40% dr from tenacity and 90k hp you aren't going to be killing anyone, at best you will be able to annoy them for some time and then run to a health potion faster than they do. That's not going to get you very far when you fight experienced players.
It isn't a rotation. You don't mindlessly hit your skills back to back. Icy Rays can't be dodged, it can only be nullified with sprint bursts or other CC immunity granting skills. There is a tiny amount of frames in the beginning of Mighty leap that don't grant the immunity.
Tying up experienced players on a node, is what experienced players do.
Wasting players time = giving your team an advantage.
This isn't a burst down set up. And the thread isn't about any of that anyway. It was about Shocking Execution. I have shown you can nullify it using mighty leap. Take it or leave it. I am never and will never claim they way I do things is the best or even technically better. I merely offer up some information on different things that most people don't or wouldn't try because they are too worried about other people being jerks about it.
Everything said against any of these powers can be said about any other set up. Experienced players know what is coming, they dodge a CC and it ruins your rotation. You are now at the mercy of your cool downs. IBS is great but without FLS or Take Down it is nothing more than a waste of time, with a cool looking animation.
Bring up so many points about range classes, how does having 4 more gap closers than other GWFs put me at any disadvantage vs ranged classes? The disadvantage is lack of burst. The advantage is that big bursts can also be completely avoided, rendering them completely powerless.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
It isn't a rotation. You don't mindlessly hit your skills back to back. Icy Rays can't be dodged, it can only be nullified with sprint bursts or other CC immunity granting skills. There is a tiny amount of frames in the beginning of Mighty leap that don't grant the immunity.
Tying up experienced players on a node, is what experienced players do.
Wasting players time = giving your team an advantage.
This isn't a burst down set up. And the thread isn't about any of that anyway. It was about Shocking Execution. I have shown you can nullify it using mighty leap. Take it or leave it. I am never and will never claim they way I do things is the best or even technically better. I merely offer up some information on different things that most people don't or wouldn't try because they are too worried about other people being jerks about it.
Everything said against any of these powers can be said about any other set up. Experienced players know what is coming, they dodge a CC and it ruins your rotation. You are now at the mercy of your cool downs. IBS is great but without FLS or Take Down it is nothing more than a waste of time, with a cool looking animation.
Bring up so many points about range classes, how does having 4 more gap closers than other GWFs put me at any disadvantage vs ranged classes? The disadvantage is lack of burst. The advantage is that big bursts can also be completely avoided, rendering them completely powerless.
Fair enough, but I'm replying as someone who has already spent some time trying what you are describing and found it to be unreliable and not worth the loss of damage. I don't believe that you can avoid burst damage by having one dodge every 10 seconds, and I believe that you can't do enough damage to kill most other classes at equal gear with the powers you are recommending.
Fair enough, but I'm replying as someone who has already spent some time trying what you are describing and found it to be unreliable and not worth the loss of damage. I don't believe that you can avoid burst damage by having one dodge every 10 seconds, and I believe that you can't do enough damage to kill most other classes at equal gear with the powers you are recommending.
At equal gear, i have no problem with any class really. Except for paladins, but that just because paladins. Both ML and PC allow you instant access to someones back, allowing you to proc Flanking maneuvers for free stuns. WMS second attack is always considered a back hit, so a crit on WMS = stun on your enemy, without having to be behind them.
Its one dodge every 10 secs as well as a stun every 5 seconds. If someone else is stunned they aren't attacking or CCing you.
It isn't about one quick burst of damage with this. if I need quick burst, thats what i use Take down -> Crescendo -> Take Down for.
PC is one of the highest AP generating spells, as it adds more AP per target hit. Roughly 3.5% - 4 % of AP per target hit. It is the only skill we have that generates AP per target hit. To the best of my knowledge. Meaning in a big group fight AP gen from PC equals
AP GENERATED = PC Charges used x Oppenents hit x 4
Lets say there are 3 people, every PC through the group gives you 12% ap instantly. so 1/3 of your AP can be filled in a matter of seconds. If the whole group is there, itll be closer to 20% AP generated instantly pre PC used. so 60% in a full group encounter.
Quick Crescendos are good enough for burst.
Another Way to avoid shocking execution and all damage when you want.
This makes for real fun use when you need to be a super tank. Fill your AP up, make sure you slot Steel Defense and Spinning strike. PC fills your AP up very fast. Once you get it full, and need to be defensive. Just use Spinning Strike and Shift Cancel it after about 1.5 seconds. It will proc the Steel Defense buff and leave you at about 70% AP left over in your bauble. Couple PCs and you are back to full, and can do it again, and again, and again. etc.
Or would taking 0 damage from all sources for 5 seconds whenever you want be a waste as well?
PS it is weird that Hidden Daggers doesn't generate any AP at all. Has anyone noticed this yet?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Okay pantamine, it's time to stop spreading bull****. Either upload a video of stfu.
Here how about this: Come 1v1 me in-game. Your GWF vs mine. Slot Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge while I slot my usual rotation. I'll even gear down to your level and wear green gear and no artifacts. If you refuse the 1v1 (Which you will, you're predictable) then come duo-queue with me and show me your uber GWF prowess.
All you do is talk, talk, talk. You're not a GWF and do not know how to play one. I use your god dam build in a troll account, the fact that this is your main build is seriously laughable.
Once again, you will deflect my request and keep writing long paragraphs praising these garbage encounters that are Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge.
Okay pantamine, it's time to stop spreading bull****. Either upload a video of stfu.
Here how about this: Come 1v1 me in-game. Your GWF vs mine. Slot Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge while I slot my usual rotation. I'll even gear down to your level and wear green gear and no artifacts. If you refuse the 1v1 (Which you will, you're predictable) then come duo-queue with me and show me your uber GWF prowess.
All you do is talk, talk, talk. You're not a GWF and do not know how to play one. I use your god dam build in a troll account, the fact that this is your main build is seriously laughable.
Once again, you will deflect my request and keep writing long paragraphs praising these garbage encounters that are Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge.
Holy Personal Attack Batman. How is any of what I said upsetting anyone in that way. Sorry man. If you want to gear down at some point and try it out we can do that. It is finals week coming up for me though so after that I would like to 1v1 for fun sure. If you gear down to my level, because I do not have BiS uber gear at all. It's about fun guys, its a friggin' game.
How am I predictable? because I am posting replies to the thread i was interested in? You used my build in a troll account? That's funny because all you know are three encounters that I use, sometimes, encounters change based on what enemy team has and what I am trying to do. Why would you make a troll account and waste resources and trying out a build you consider garbage? If anyone is pulling bull****, it is you, with that statement.
Why do people get so angry when talking about stuff? I never targeted anyone, i was having a discussion with clonkyo. And now some rando rambo is raging. Just really don't understand where the anger and hate is coming from. it seems weird.
Like I said, I never said i was better than anyone, or what I do or use is better than what you or anyone else might use.I was just giving some information. It isn't a standing challenge to anyone who thinks they are better than me for some odd reason. I wouldn't want the amount of challenges that would bring, because people usually think they are better than others on average. I showed a shot of SE being nullified with Mighty Leap. How is something bull**** when it is empirical? Talk about an oxymoron.
I am not praising the encounters, I was saying they can be used to avoid things very reasonably. Because that's what they are, mobility moves, not power moves.
You can hate me for whatever reason, and get mad. But SE being nullified with ML is fact. And that's the main objective of this thread.
(I think it's the pic of my rogue that makes people naturally angry and not want to actually take what I say into consideration. I have played CW, TR, and GWF since beta. Please don't assume stuff based on a forum pic. My TR isn't even a MI, and my CW isn't a spell storm. Because easy mode != fun)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Holy Personal Attack Batman. How is any of what I said upsetting anyone in that way. Sorry man.
You're spreading misinformation about an absolutely awful build. And given how clueless most of the players are, they will think your build is viable. It is NOT.
If you want to gear down at some point and try it out we can do that. It is finals week coming up for me though so after that I would like to 1v1 for fun sure. If you gear down to my level, because I do not have BiS uber gear at all. It's about fun guys, its a friggin' game.
Deal
How am I predictable? because I am posting replies to the thread i was interested in? You used my build in a troll account? That's funny because all you know are three encounters that I use, sometimes, encounters change based on what enemy team has and what I am trying to do. Why would you make a troll account and waste resources and trying out a build you consider garbage? If anyone is pulling bull****, it is you, with that statement.
Mighty Leap - Battle Fury - Punishing Charge.
Instigator build, SwordMaster with Steel Defense.
That's what I use on the troll account. I've had that build before you even made your GWF probably. And now you actually use a similar build as a MAIN build... I understand you want to have fun, but are you a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
Why do people get so angry when talking about stuff? I never targeted anyone, i was having a discussion with clonkyo. And now some rando rambo is raging. Just really don't understand where the anger and hate is coming from. it seems weird.
I just don't want the GWF community following this absolute joke of a build. And the resent towards you is the fact that you're a TR (aka coward) trying to GWF. Stick to stealth and spamming piercing damage. Thanks
Like I said, I never said i was better than anyone, or what I do or use is better than what you or anyone else might use.I was just giving some information. It isn't a standing challenge to anyone who thinks they are better than me for some odd reason. I wouldn't want the amount of challenges that would bring, because people usually think they are better than others on average. I showed a shot of SE being nullified with Mighty Leap. How is something bull**** when it is empirical? Talk about an oxymoron.
Any TR with half a brain cell (They're mostly dumb as hell, I'll give you that, so your thing can sometimes work) can animation cancel Shocking Exeuction and make you waste your mighty leap. Then what? Bam, SE'd.
I am not praising the encounters, I was saying they can be used to avoid things very reasonably. Because that's what they are, mobility moves, not power moves.
You can hate me for whatever reason, and get mad. But SE being nullified with ML is fact. And that's the main objective of this thread.
Mighty Leap has a use. Punishing Charge doesn't count as a dodge, your little build would be interesting if it did, but Punishing Charge is useless.
"Punishing" charge. The only person being Punished is the GWF slotting it.
You mighty leap away from them putting them out of range. Thought that was self explanatory.
Most TR's dont Shift cancel SE. Because they aren't used to anyone dodging it or attempting to ever, much less with Mighty Leap. That's why it usually works. But if they do cancel, then yea they will probably be able to get you with it. There isn't a way to completely avoid SE over and over if he keeps canceling it. Just as no one can keep avoiding take down over and over with me using sprint bar to cancel it, and PC for gap closing.
With steel defense and full ap you could do the Spinning strike trick and take no damage at all, since you aren't moving he won't think to cancel it.
I haven't played my TR since last summer, she is still 60, and I wasn't a MI, never was since WK came out. My first character was CW with beta, Then GWF then TR, then others to try, but didn't take them to max because they weren't fun to me. Waiting for druid.
Please stop judging based on the forum pic. I like the stance she has when she throws DisStrike. I am absolutely sure no one will think they should do anything of what I say based just on the amount of people bashing it, so while your motivation may be noble, the execution of what you wanted to do, protect new players, will only show them the toxicity that this game creates between people.
It's funny because if I said I was an Iron VanGuard using Takedown/FLS and IBS and Hidden Daggers, people would think I was a really good player, solely based on the fact that i am using a very similar set up to them, and they know how it works and that it does/can work. Or if I was using Flourish IBS and Hidden Daggers, That would be good too no? Even though nothing else is known about the build or how I play. just because I use the same encounters as most others, they will think i am a good player.
PC is a quick step out of any AoE ground target ability. You can juke FLS with PC with proper timing. If it were a true dodge, it would be absolutely OP LOL.
I am a Destroyer build, so you are already off base on builds. I only go up enough in instigator to get the silence on ML(only 1 point needed for 1 second silence) and get the rest in Flanking maneuvers(1.8 sec stun on crit). WMS crit = stun from flank maneuvers, because the second hit always hits from behind.
PC, ML, Take Down SureStrike WMS Destroyer and Weapon Master.
I only slot Steel Defense when i need to troll hard and eat a lot of encounters while contesting a point.
Honestly it seems like you just pieced that together based on things I have said in these posts, as in, you made it up - on the spot. Since you show Steel Defense and no other Passive Feature, and mention nothing of what At Wills you use or Dailys. Based on your join date, I am sure that none of your Characters were made before mine.
Please stop with the personal attacks and diminishing comments. Do you really want to be the cause of a thread being closed?
I am not a coward because TR was a fun class that I haven't played in a long time. It is a game, can't really judge peoples bravery or cowardice since there is nothing actually at stake. (Even though the way some people avoid death in this game is really quite funny. (Die on the Node or don't come to the Dom)
Your Troll Account Build failed because you have absolutely no kind of CC on your bar.
Battle Fury isn't going to help you if you have ML and PC slotted as well. I tried that, it is great if you want to be a permasprinter, but it isn't really great in combat. So I can see why you would have such a bad taste in your mouth. Try it out again, going Full destroyer and 15 in instigator. it is much different and MUCH better than trying it as full instigator. (Any wep with stacking Dot will help to get Instant stacks of DP)
Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic, so lets just end it and agree to disagree. I can play the way I like, and others can the way they like. I never said once that everyone should use this and do everything I do. But I also won't come in here calling them derogatory terms and trying to belittle their thoughts, opinions, and inputs.
You have my input on ways to deal with SE, take it or leave it. As always it is easier to just argue that there is nothing that can be done and the TR shouldnt have an attack like that. But really, it is ITC that makes them so ridiculous, it always has been and it always will be. ITC is the main reason people will pick MI over WK.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
It is obvious that people don't read. Why bother, am i right? Clonkyo I have said multiple times I don't play instigator tree. I have never said I am better than anyone, or using Mighty leap is better than using something else. Simply stated some information on the use of ML or PC.
Pantomime doesn't translate as farce. It is miming. It is talking with your hands. Which is what typing is, after all.
pantomime
[pan-tuh-mahym]
noun
1.
the art or technique of conveying emotions, actions, feelings, etc., by gestures without speech.
I thought you were a more reasonable person who would actually read and reply. but instead it is some bashing, putting a quote of me in your sig - as a form of mockery - and unequivocally immature , and then talked about a bunch of other people, who i am assuming are considered the best players, and then belittling yourself as a sign of modesty towards them for some reason.
The condescension in these forums is beyond ripe. As is apparently the amount of egg shells one should walk on when coming here.I have nothing to teach you, but you all should learn some interpersonal communication, which includes listening - in this case reading, actually READING. Absorbing what you have read, and then replying to it.instead of simply taking a quick look, grabbing what is most salient to you, and then only replying to that one part.
Why would I go through the trouble of recording a video? You are the one complaining about SE. I gave you ways to deal with it. if you don't want to use them, then don't. And enjoy being killed by SE every time. There really isn't much else you can do about it.
Thanks for keeping it friendly, constructive, respective, and informative. Peace.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
It is obvious that people don't read. Why bother, am i right? Clonkyo I have said multiple times I don't play instigator tree. I have never said I am better than anyone, or using Mighty leap is better than using something else. Simply stated some information on the use of ML or PC.
Pantomime doesn't translate as farce. It is miming. It is talking with your hands. Which is what typing is, after all.
pantomime
[pan-tuh-mahym]
noun
1.
the art or technique of conveying emotions, actions, feelings, etc., by gestures without speech.
I thought you were a more reasonable person who would actually read and reply. but instead it is some bashing, putting a quote of me in your sig - as a form of mockery - and unequivocally immature , and then talked about a bunch of other people, who i am assuming are considered the best players, and then belittling yourself as a sign of modesty towards them for some reason.
The condescension in these forums is beyond ripe. As is apparently the amount of egg shells one should walk on when coming here.I have nothing to teach you, but you all should learn some interpersonal communication, which includes listening - in this case reading, actually READING. Absorbing what you have read, and then replying to it.instead of simply taking a quick look, grabbing what is most salient to you, and then only replying to that one part.
Why would I go through the trouble of recording a video? You are the one complaining about SE. I gave you ways to deal with it. if you don't want to use them, then don't. And enjoy being killed by SE every time. There really isn't much else you can do about it.
Thanks for keeping it friendly, constructive, respective, and informative. Peace.
you are amazing and i love you.FIRST PERSON ON THESE FORUMS WHO ACTUALLY HAS SOME SENSE IN THEIR HEADS!!!!
Why would I go through the trouble of recording a video? You are the one complaining about SE. I gave you ways to deal with it. if you don't want to use them, then don't. And enjoy being killed by SE every time. There really isn't much else you can do about it.
Feels like playing a TR changes something in that person's mind.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
/This post was addressed to pantamime I don't know why it didnt show it/
Stop lying, insulting and misleading other players. GWF right now has no dodge in any encounter or mechanic, Mighty Leap or Punishing Charge have no dodge, you may only TRY (I repeat TRY) to get out of range using it but what practice proves: most of the time (I would rather say constantly) you are getting hit in the middle of performing this encounters with whatever opponent power: cc or not, daily or not, you won’t survive anyway. Why I accused you about insulting other players? – because TR/CW/HR/GF will kill you even easier when you will be trying to use this powers you suggested and STAY in combat. You constantly trying to make your gwf opponents stupid, and your “tactic” was tested long time ago by most of gwfs and IT DOES NOT WORK. Stop trying to make fools of us and blind to your wonderful “tactic”. This game isn’t a rocket science you know? Try to imagine (I really suggest you do that) that your enlightening discover of an excellent strategy and tactic for gwf might have been already discovered and tested by others long time ago.
GWF was promised some changes by devs (2 weeks after mod 6), GentelmenCrush was saying in GWF thread that we may get dodge on sprint and some other changes. But we know what current state of this game is…(many weeks after mod 6 release basic GWF class feature Weapon Master still doesn’t work when you add 4 point into it, other classes have the same issues with their class features too). Until we won’t get those promised changes there’s no effective tactic in pvp for GWF class, you may only run with DC/Paladin healing you as some kind of body guard (but healing DC does not rly need a body guard he is very hard to kill, Paladin doesn’t need one either…).
And no, this is not a start of discussion from my part, this is trying to end it (yes you may always think we all are bad gwf players and can't have good timing on that wonderfull and effective enounters Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge, lets stick to that and end this off-topic posts).
About Topic of this thread:
I do not understand why some players are saying that Executioner can’t sustain perma-stealth? He CAN and on Executioner path with Shadowborn feat you can have even 40k power on Shocking Execution in stealth +100% crit and even more piercing with Oppresive Darkness class feature (like even without that TRs wouldn’t have enough piercing). So yes this class and daily SE need changes. But seriously, who cares..? (for many months it looks like nobody except some smaller and smaller with every day community)
About Topic of this thread:
I do not understand why some players are saying that Executioner can’t sustain perma-stealth? He CAN and on Executioner path with Shadowborn feat you can have even 40k power on Shocking Execution in stealth +100% crit and even more piercing with Oppresive Darkness class feature (like even without that TRs wouldn’t have enough piercing). So yes this class and daily SE need changes. But seriously, who cares..? (for many months it looks like nobody except some smaller and smaller with every day community)
Maintain perma-stealth without Return to Shadows is possible but is really hard and of course, as executioner you can't just running around hitting from stealth as saboteurs do.
To have 40k power rating in the next attack after go stealth you need to have 20k power, and as you know we all are running around with 20k power, a purple pony and a magic unicorn (just making obvious the fact that the argument of the 40k power rating is just exaggerate/ridiculous).
No one uses Oppressive Darkness as it was nerfed (in the preview server) making it completely useless.
Maintain perma-stealth without Return to Shadows is possible but is really hard and of course, as executioner you can't just running around hitting from stealth as saboteurs do.
To have 40k power rating in the next attack after go stealth you need to have 20k power, and as you know we all are running around with 20k power, a purple pony and a magic unicorn (just making obvious the fact that the argument of the 40k power rating is just exaggerate/ridiculous).
About perma stealth - it's harder but still possible, and SE on Executioner path has crazy dmg.
About that 40k power - I was told about TR who had 18k power in pvp so 36k isn't that far from 40k, perhaps some day we will get back an option of checking players while pvp, you will get a screenshot then. I was writing what is possible not about green/blue gear newbie players in pvp (not so few TRs have 16k power which gives you 32k on first attack in stealth avoiding DR).
About perma stealth - it's harder but still possible, and SE on Executioner path has crazy dmg.
About that 40k power - I was told about TR who had 18k power in pvp so 36k isn't that far from 40k, perhaps some day we will get back an option of checking players while pvp, you will get a screenshot then. I was writing what is possible not about green/blue gear newbie players in pvp (not so few TRs have 16k power which gives you 32k on first attack in stealth avoiding DR).
I don't know any TR that stacks 18k power, it doesn't means that they couldn't exists just that I've never seen one. A part from that, what the Shadowborn feat do is increment the power rating of the next attack a 100% (when maxed) that doesn't means that it multiply your Power by two, just that increment in a 100% how power affects to the damage of your next attack.
I stack 10.457 power right now and that means for me (in PvE) to hit with LB for 75k instead of 56k. I wish it really work as you said.
EDIT: I already said that is possible go quasi-perma-stealth in non saboteur but is just hard and the RoI is not that high
Takedown is extremely inefficient as a PvP stun. I tested a lot destroyer runner with also variations such as punishing charge.
First of all, you have to understand that slotting mighty leap is inefficient too in 99% of the situations with only that upside of slotting a dodge to avoid SE.
Slotting, to say, ITC, or shield on tab, is a "universal" setup that allows you to face all the classes and it's useful to face every kind of enemy.
Slotting mighty leap is useful only to dodge SE, it's useless and sub-optimal to face anything else, including a TR apart from dodging SE daily. As a GWF, damage comes at you like a non-stop stream right now from both TRs and CWs. One dodge is useless to protect yourself from that. And is one encounter that takes away part of your damage or CC cause the silence effect you get is harder to get cause the power itself is harder to land in the heat of battle compared to FLS, and is not a stun. Also, you must dig all the way into the 3rd feat tree of instigator to get it, losing all the defensive feats of sentinel tree which are way more reliable and useful (5% deflect, mark damage boost and countless scars).
Slotting PC as a gap closer is also sub-optimal as it can get interrupted/ CCed easily.
Using PC-TD makes you lose the dodge from ML and also TD is still easily dodged, even with it going to a 2s cooldown you still waste precious time trying to land it and, also, it can be dodged, and when that happens, it goes on full cooldown. And any decent PvPer will dodge it making it crush on immunity.
Slotting stuff like ML, PC, TD or BF only allows you to "troll", which means you will annoy the enemy for a short time before their superior DPS brings your HPs down and you either die or sprint away.
Even if you're good at linking TD to threat rush or PC cancelling the animations, and even if you're good at faking the hit cancelling TD with sprint, a good CW/TR/HR/DC, pretty much every class played well, will dodge or just bunnyhop out of its range forcing you to fake again and again, while dealing no damage while they burst you down fast.
So while TD cooldown is virtually under 6 seconds, you never stun the enemy every 5.X seconds in PvP.
You also lose 40% damage buff from daggers.
So your DPS, i can tell you, are the GWF "base damage", which is low and not enough to not even make a CW with shield on tab+negation, or any other PvP-geared class, have the slightest concern about you. You will jump here and there, charge here and there while they either burn someone else and heal up with life steal cause they have all the time to make it proc at least one time (seen PvP toons with 20% LS chance).
No need for a video. Just let's meet in game and test your build in PvP. You think no GWF ever tested this stuff. We did. And the result is that it's sub-optimal or we would be using it right now.
Trolling enemies a bit and then run to pot is not needed in PvP.
Current most efficient setup is, and with a reason, GWF destroyer with 3 trees on sentinel to countless scars+5% deflect+damage on mark, negation, high LS chance with lifedrinker enchant, focused destroyer feat and bravery. Iron vanguard. Buff damage with daggers, focused destroyer, go unstoppable and in the end you have up to 150% damage buff and now you can deal massive damage with SS alone and then FLS-IBS to nuke down the enemy.
At PUG level you can also use different setups and hit-run being a very efficient killer. At BiS/ Premade level the above setup is needed i believe to survive a bit the crazy damage bursts coming at you.
GWF in this module has only one option, and the option is to buff fast and then nuke down the enemy in seconds cause now we have the tools to really be DPS monsters once we build up all our damage buffs. Still the class requires a lot more skill to both survive and land DPS than CWs or TRs, for example.
Trying to be a stun machine, or an extremely mobile troll is not efficient the same as the old module 4 runner build. It's a different way to play the class, it's sure. But from my own tests, it's less efficient and when the enemies are well geared and experienced this kind of setup will show all its flaws. Believe me.
But it's nice to see someone using his brain and doing his own build. If it suits your playstyle, good for you.
Still ,you've to understand that slotting mighty leap, even if that alone to face a TR, means you either give up daggers damage buff (40%) or FLS stun. And good luck catching the TR without a stun. If you go for ML-PC for extreme mobility and dodge, your damage will make a 100k HP TR laugh while he spam dodge rolls and proceed to burn you down during ML cooldown.
A GWF will never outrun a TR and imho the only real option is to balance the classes with:
- SE respecting tenacity like avery other power/daily/thing in PvP. TRs are not special, so there's no reason for their daily to pass through tenacity 100%. It's nonsense.
- GWF stuns being undeflectable or IBS animation being as fast as RS animation so it can be landed directly. Reason: GWF IBS is the only real nuke and requires CC to reliably land. It can still be deflected and dodged, but if you add deflectable stuns that pretty much make IBS unable to land if the stun is defelcted, you nullify most of GWF tools when facing a high deflect class like TRs or HRs. Cause it means that, to land IBS damage, the conditions are:
- You time-aim your stun perfectly, and avoid it being dodged (fine)
- IBS is not deflected (fine)
- Stun is not deflected (nope)
It adds a third layer of condition that makes the whole rotation extremely unreliable and is the only class that got such mechanic where 80% of DPS are linked to a CC power which can be deflected. A CW or TR or HR or any other class who gets its CC deflected can still deal most of its damage. A GWF, instead, has its whole rotation nullified, on top of being one of the 2 classes with no real tool to avoid SE damage unless they slot another rotation that pretty much nullifies completely their DPS, while a TR with ITC or a CW with shield on tab still have their DPS in place cause they don't need all the stacks a GWF needs but they get their DPS from the start (Storm spell, piercing damage exc...).
No, you are wrong here, you are not givin any way to deal with S.E. because, as a lot of GWF-players, myself included, have/had told you that "mighty Leap" on PvP is really not viable not reliable at all, and explained the reason behind it.
Just because slotting ML lowers your burst by replacing another encounter, thus making you say it isn't viable for pvp, doesn't mean it doesn't avoid SE dmg.
Please don't follow some false logic to prove your point. This is your logic as I read it.
---Skill not being viable in pvp , but negating damage on SE, means that there is no way to negate SE damage----
Do you see how that doesn't logically follow?
My screenshot above shows that it does Nullify SE damage. The viability in PvP was not the point being made.
The reliability of using ML to dodge things is really based on your own reaction time. But practice and you will dodge a lot.
Just as you practiced with how you play now, and you can land your combos well.
I wouldn't suggest using an encounter solely to deal with such a specific problem, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work
ML or Steel Defense proc off of a daily are your only real options to avoid it. Other than that, just hope you can live through it.
I don't run to potions, I die on the node. I contest, I don't chase kills. If I do run away, it is in hopes that the 2 people on me will follow me away from the node, if they don't then I zip back and continue contesting. because dying in this game doesn't have any real draw back. If you are running to pots all the time, you are way too concerned about your K/D ratio, and in fact are a hindrance to your team.
So to be clear one last time. And hopefully clear the air.
Fact and Disclaimer:
Using ML and PC will result in low burst potential, with a higher potential for avoidance,
!!!!!!NOT SUGGESTED FOR HIGH TIER PVP!!!!!
!!!!!!USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! DON"T EXPECT IT TO BE EASY!!!
!!!!!!DON"T EXPECT IT TO MAKE YOU A SUPER KILL GUY!!!
!!!!!!IT WILL NOT MAKE YOU A SUPER KILL GUY!!!!
If you want to be a Super Kill Guy then play a CW or TR
My K/D ratio isn't positive, but my assists are high and my wins out weigh losses. That should help shed a light as well on playing this way. This is a team oriented way of playing, with a possibility of node trolling.
There is that better?
Enjoy the rest of your conversation.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
An on topic but funny side note, I managed to do a 100k SE on a gwf pug yesterday and he accused me of using "turkish hacks" and reported me.
Really on topic: It says a whole lot when these threads about TR powers pretty much always develop into threads about under powered classes. It really looks like the TR is not op so much as gwf and sw need some help.
I had a GWF Iron Vanguard Sentinel way back in the day (right before iwd dropped). It ran 3-5 GWF guild premade troll comps vs pugs and I made my way through some pvp guilds that today are no longer around. I had an HR in a similar situation at the same time. This was when bis or near bis would only set you back $50-$100. The GWF was to troll and the HR was to kill GWFs, "Panzerjager" or "Tank hunter-killer". The nerf to both caused me to walk away from the game until a few months ago, late mod 5.
The point is, things change, classes become strong, classes become weak. We adapt or we play other games. Mod6 changed stealth in what originally was supposed to reduce its use. It only gave people an incentive to re-create and run perma-stealth builds. What do you think is going to happen if they change SE? It is going to result in TRs adapting in a way that will cause everyone to scream nerf again.
But seems like you did so when you stated "be happy being killed by S.E.".
If ANY GWF cant deal some damage, is useless to its team.
If ANY GWF cant "facetank" some damage, is useless to its team.
(i sugested that "Punishing charge" could cancel ANY power and dealing double damage [which is low too] while doing so... basically, turning it into a real "counter and punisher" move) because, basically, you cant hold nodes, you cant turn the scale into your team's favor, etc BUT, if you feel confortable playing in that way, do not stop playing that way.
I am sorry it seemed that way. I merely meant its the only actual avoidance / dodge that we have as GWFs. So really the only other option is to take the hit of SE and die or be close to death. Sorry if it came across as rude or anything.
If punishing Charge worked like that, I am pretty sure it would be on a lot of GWF players bars. And I would love that kind of beef up for my play style! Even with out the double damage, the canceling of skills would be make it punishing enough.
The real problem is that SE isn't what you should be focused on / worried about at all. While I admit it is a lame skill, as is ITC, and why I have a WK since Wk came out, it is the complete synergy of all the different pieces playing in a TR's favor that give them their over abundance of good things.
GWF just needs some love, there isn't much you can do about anything until the devs make the changes live and we will see if it brings enough good to GWFs to compete with more than just 1 type of build.
This game has so much potential still, I really wish they would stop mucking it up mod after mod.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
(...)A part from that, what the Shadowborn feat do is increment the power rating of the next attack a 100% (when maxed) that doesn't means that it multiply your Power by two, just that increment in a 100% how power affects to the damage of your next attack.
I stack 10.457 power right now and that means for me (in PvE) to hit with LB for 75k instead of 56k. I wish it really work as you said.
EDIT:(...)
Maxed? Stacking power? Wth are you talking about? Shadowborn feat gives you +100% Power on next attack when you enter stealth. You are not stacking anything. It's easy to check it just enter stealth and see your power stat (if you have that feat), you may be in P Enclave - I wd give you a video example but my connection upload speed is to slow at place where I am right now.
On TR right now you can stay in stealth, hit like truck and have bazzilion dodges and stuns (even aoe stuns!) - what more wd player want? :rolleyes:
An on topic but funny side note, I managed to do a 100k SE on a gwf pug yesterday and he accused me of using "turkish hacks" and reported me.
Really on topic: It says a whole lot when these threads about TR powers pretty much always develop into threads about under powered classes. It really looks like the TR is not op so much as gwf and sw need some help.
I had a GWF Iron Vanguard Sentinel way back in the day (right before iwd dropped). It ran 3-5 GWF guild premade troll comps vs pugs and I made my way through some pvp guilds that today are no longer around. I had an HR in a similar situation at the same time. This was when bis or near bis would only set you back $50-$100. The GWF was to troll and the HR was to kill GWFs, "Panzerjager" or "Tank hunter-killer". The nerf to both caused me to walk away from the game until a few months ago, late mod 5.
The point is, things change, classes become strong, classes become weak. We adapt or we play other games. Mod6 changed stealth in what originally was supposed to reduce its use. It only gave people an incentive to re-create and run perma-stealth builds. What do you think is going to happen if they change SE? It is going to result in TRs adapting in a way that will cause everyone to scream nerf again.
My humble opinion.
It's not classes changing.
It's a daily bypassing all sources of DR and being a 100% sure big nuke on GWF/SW is plain stupid, nonsense, unbalanced.
Even the OP GWFs back in the days, let's say module3, got to actually aim and time their bugged roar, and if focused they would go down. In fact, they were cancelled in premades and many premade players pointed that out. Also, TRs still got means to avoid roar if they kept moving or were not predictable so that the GWF could not roar them out of stealth. The GWF still got to predict where the stealth TR was in order to hit with Roar. So as OP as they were, it was a big shot away from current SE mechanic vs GWFs/SWs, which can be summarized in:
"i press this button, and no matter what you have, no matter what you do, you lose 70% of your HP. You can be sprinting at the right time, or in unstoppable, or both, have 20/40% tenacity or 42%+ 84% ArP resist, it doesn't matter. I press this button, i get my cookie".
The Devs nerfed GWFs to the ground in module 4 cause, their words:
- IBS landing on proned enemies and bypassing DR and deflect was wrong
- Unstoppable 50% DR popping too often was a non-proactive way of increase survivability
so they nerfed prones, nerfed unstoppable, nerfed det gain, buffed sprint to be "on par with other shift mechanics". Is it? Nope.
Then they introduced:
- Piercing damage going through everything
- CW shield on tab providing passive unmitigable DR to a ranged class
- Longer immunity rolls and 4 immunity rolls+ insta dodge (more reactive dodges) for other classes while sprint got a double use (gap closer and defense) but with only a 40% increase and a deleay at start, getting CC immunity which, btw, other dodge mechanics already have. And while a dodge allows other classes to avoid SE, sprint doesn't. On par with other shift mechanics? On par with CW teleport spam, TR dodge roll spam?
SE being a "press this button, see the GWF losing most of his HPs or just die. GWF got soulforged and you just killed it with SE pressing your "win" button? No problem. You get another SE to kill the **** cockroach again!".
It's a daily bypassing all sources of DR and being a 100% sure big nuke on GWF/SW is plain stupid, nonsense, unbalanced.
Even the OP GWFs back in the days, let's say module3, got to actually aim and time their bugged roar, and if focused they would go down. In fact, they were cancelled in premades and many premade players pointed that out. Also, TRs still got means to avoid roar if they kept moving or were not predictable so that the GWF could not roar them out of stealth. The GWF still got to predict where the stealth TR was in order to hit with Roar. So as OP as they were, it was a big shot away from current SE mechanic vs GWFs/SWs, which can be summarized in:
"i press this button, and no matter what you have, no matter what you do, you lose 70% of your HP. You can be sprinting at the right time, or in unstoppable, or both, have 20/40% tenacity or 42%+ 84% ArP resist, it doesn't matter. I press this button, i get my cookie".
The Devs nerfed GWFs to the ground in module 4 cause, their words:
- IBS landing on proned enemies and bypassing DR and deflect was wrong
- Unstoppable 50% DR popping too often was a non-proactive way of increase survivability
so they nerfed prones, nerfed unstoppable, nerfed det gain, buffed sprint to be "on par with other shift mechanics". Is it? Nope.
Then they introduced:
- Piercing damage going through everything
- CW shield on tab providing passive unmitigable DR to a ranged class
- Longer immunity rolls and 4 immunity rolls+ insta dodge (more reactive dodges) for other classes while sprint got a double use (gap closer and defense) but with only a 40% increase and a deleay at start, getting CC immunity which, btw, other dodge mechanics already have. And while a dodge allows other classes to avoid SE, sprint doesn't. On par with other shift mechanics? On par with CW teleport spam, TR dodge roll spam?
SE being a "press this button, see the GWF losing most of his HPs or just die. GWF got soulforged and you just killed it with SE pressing your "win" button? No problem. You get another SE to kill the **** cockroach again!".
Hey you make a lot of great points. What I have said all along is that they should just bring back to gwf what they took away from it in mod 3. Which was a lot. GWF got castrated and since then every other class but sw got buffed up. A lot. Return GWF and HR to its mod 2 state, give SWs a legit defense mechanic, and everything is good to go. SE on a mod2 gwf meant that you go from a gwf with full health to suddenly a gwf in unstoppable with full health.
No, thank you, i prefer BASTLY my Mod3's GWF pro active damage dealer based on chain combos (Takedown -> Flourish/Frontline Surge -> IBS) rather than a new CW-class... BUT, i agree that Deep gash and Steel Blitz must be buffed for sure.
Well they gutted FLS also. GWF is such a tangle of nerfs now. It sucks because it is a fun class to play.
I have a TR CW and GWF. As those are the only classes that I find fun to play (waiting on Druid or Bard). I don't ever slot SE on my TR because my paragon path doesn't have it.
I usually run with mighty leap slotted on my GWF as well as Punishing Charge, because they are very useful if used correctly.
You dont slot mighty leap solely for trying to dodge a SE. (which of course is very next to impossible if the TR is smart and does it from stealth) You can dodge everything and anything with it. If you are an instigator build you also get boosted dmg, combat advantage, a silence on everyone hit in the area and a 25% reduced cooldown. It isn't a waste of an encounter slot if you actually use mighty leap. Just most GWFs still for for bang bang boom basic cookie cutter set up combo, so in their eyes, it is a waste of an encounter slot.
Honestly, SE has always been a thorn in PVPs side. They could easily just cut the range on it so a GWF that isn't using mighty leap or PC to help extend the gap quicker, they can still just shift sprint out. (As long as they are aware it is coming of course)
But Mighty Leap even for not a dodge is an instant 25 gap greater/closer, coupled with PC which is another instant gap closer/creator is a good way to get out of it as well.
Now I am going to stop divulging how I play my GWF.
TL;DR
GWF has ways to deal with SE. they just aren't ideal in the regards to how most people want to play GWF or feel like they HAVE to play it / build it. as for SW's, no idea, never got one up past level 30.
Easiest fix, is to just reduce the range on the **** thing, so both GWF and SW can get out of it. Make the TR;s that use SE actually have to think about how and when they use it. Not just press 1 and done.
lol so whats the range now , you want to be like in the back of the neck kiss before using encounter get real man , problem about is that stealth give 50% crit and most tr uses vorpal especially the ones who have perfect vorpal so in the video that's one thing you can see clearly. cutting down on range does not solve but make it worse , how about whisperknife tr that use see hateful knives roll up on a shield of gwf like a ball i was one but i came back to master inf , but question is this an advantage of tr does it help to just delete class so these forum post will stop and we all use cw instead
Comments
Mighty leap turning all damage incoming to zero, and weirdly, lowering the damage of SE by a lot for some weird reason, shown in the parenthesis.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Tying up experienced players on a node, is what experienced players do.
Wasting players time = giving your team an advantage.
This isn't a burst down set up. And the thread isn't about any of that anyway. It was about Shocking Execution. I have shown you can nullify it using mighty leap. Take it or leave it. I am never and will never claim they way I do things is the best or even technically better. I merely offer up some information on different things that most people don't or wouldn't try because they are too worried about other people being jerks about it.
Everything said against any of these powers can be said about any other set up. Experienced players know what is coming, they dodge a CC and it ruins your rotation. You are now at the mercy of your cool downs. IBS is great but without FLS or Take Down it is nothing more than a waste of time, with a cool looking animation.
Bring up so many points about range classes, how does having 4 more gap closers than other GWFs put me at any disadvantage vs ranged classes? The disadvantage is lack of burst. The advantage is that big bursts can also be completely avoided, rendering them completely powerless.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Fair enough, but I'm replying as someone who has already spent some time trying what you are describing and found it to be unreliable and not worth the loss of damage. I don't believe that you can avoid burst damage by having one dodge every 10 seconds, and I believe that you can't do enough damage to kill most other classes at equal gear with the powers you are recommending.
At equal gear, i have no problem with any class really. Except for paladins, but that just because paladins. Both ML and PC allow you instant access to someones back, allowing you to proc Flanking maneuvers for free stuns. WMS second attack is always considered a back hit, so a crit on WMS = stun on your enemy, without having to be behind them.
Its one dodge every 10 secs as well as a stun every 5 seconds. If someone else is stunned they aren't attacking or CCing you.
It isn't about one quick burst of damage with this. if I need quick burst, thats what i use Take down -> Crescendo -> Take Down for.
PC is one of the highest AP generating spells, as it adds more AP per target hit. Roughly 3.5% - 4 % of AP per target hit. It is the only skill we have that generates AP per target hit. To the best of my knowledge. Meaning in a big group fight AP gen from PC equals
AP GENERATED = PC Charges used x Oppenents hit x 4
Lets say there are 3 people, every PC through the group gives you 12% ap instantly. so 1/3 of your AP can be filled in a matter of seconds. If the whole group is there, itll be closer to 20% AP generated instantly pre PC used. so 60% in a full group encounter.
Quick Crescendos are good enough for burst.
Another Way to avoid shocking execution and all damage when you want.
This makes for real fun use when you need to be a super tank. Fill your AP up, make sure you slot Steel Defense and Spinning strike. PC fills your AP up very fast. Once you get it full, and need to be defensive. Just use Spinning Strike and Shift Cancel it after about 1.5 seconds. It will proc the Steel Defense buff and leave you at about 70% AP left over in your bauble. Couple PCs and you are back to full, and can do it again, and again, and again. etc.
Or would taking 0 damage from all sources for 5 seconds whenever you want be a waste as well?
PS it is weird that Hidden Daggers doesn't generate any AP at all. Has anyone noticed this yet?
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Here how about this: Come 1v1 me in-game. Your GWF vs mine. Slot Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge while I slot my usual rotation. I'll even gear down to your level and wear green gear and no artifacts. If you refuse the 1v1 (Which you will, you're predictable) then come duo-queue with me and show me your uber GWF prowess.
All you do is talk, talk, talk. You're not a GWF and do not know how to play one. I use your god dam build in a troll account, the fact that this is your main build is seriously laughable.
Once again, you will deflect my request and keep writing long paragraphs praising these garbage encounters that are Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge.
Holy Personal Attack Batman. How is any of what I said upsetting anyone in that way. Sorry man. If you want to gear down at some point and try it out we can do that. It is finals week coming up for me though so after that I would like to 1v1 for fun sure. If you gear down to my level, because I do not have BiS uber gear at all. It's about fun guys, its a friggin' game.
How am I predictable? because I am posting replies to the thread i was interested in? You used my build in a troll account? That's funny because all you know are three encounters that I use, sometimes, encounters change based on what enemy team has and what I am trying to do. Why would you make a troll account and waste resources and trying out a build you consider garbage? If anyone is pulling bull****, it is you, with that statement.
Why do people get so angry when talking about stuff? I never targeted anyone, i was having a discussion with clonkyo. And now some rando rambo is raging. Just really don't understand where the anger and hate is coming from. it seems weird.
Like I said, I never said i was better than anyone, or what I do or use is better than what you or anyone else might use.I was just giving some information. It isn't a standing challenge to anyone who thinks they are better than me for some odd reason. I wouldn't want the amount of challenges that would bring, because people usually think they are better than others on average. I showed a shot of SE being nullified with Mighty Leap. How is something bull**** when it is empirical? Talk about an oxymoron.
I am not praising the encounters, I was saying they can be used to avoid things very reasonably. Because that's what they are, mobility moves, not power moves.
You can hate me for whatever reason, and get mad. But SE being nullified with ML is fact. And that's the main objective of this thread.
(I think it's the pic of my rogue that makes people naturally angry and not want to actually take what I say into consideration. I have played CW, TR, and GWF since beta. Please don't assume stuff based on a forum pic. My TR isn't even a MI, and my CW isn't a spell storm. Because easy mode != fun)
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
You're spreading misinformation about an absolutely awful build. And given how clueless most of the players are, they will think your build is viable. It is NOT.
Deal
Mighty Leap - Battle Fury - Punishing Charge.
Instigator build, SwordMaster with Steel Defense.
That's what I use on the troll account. I've had that build before you even made your GWF probably. And now you actually use a similar build as a MAIN build... I understand you want to have fun, but are you a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
I just don't want the GWF community following this absolute joke of a build. And the resent towards you is the fact that you're a TR (aka coward) trying to GWF. Stick to stealth and spamming piercing damage. Thanks
Any TR with half a brain cell (They're mostly dumb as hell, I'll give you that, so your thing can sometimes work) can animation cancel Shocking Exeuction and make you waste your mighty leap. Then what? Bam, SE'd.
Mighty Leap has a use. Punishing Charge doesn't count as a dodge, your little build would be interesting if it did, but Punishing Charge is useless.
"Punishing" charge. The only person being Punished is the GWF slotting it.
Most TR's dont Shift cancel SE. Because they aren't used to anyone dodging it or attempting to ever, much less with Mighty Leap. That's why it usually works. But if they do cancel, then yea they will probably be able to get you with it. There isn't a way to completely avoid SE over and over if he keeps canceling it. Just as no one can keep avoiding take down over and over with me using sprint bar to cancel it, and PC for gap closing.
With steel defense and full ap you could do the Spinning strike trick and take no damage at all, since you aren't moving he won't think to cancel it.
I haven't played my TR since last summer, she is still 60, and I wasn't a MI, never was since WK came out. My first character was CW with beta, Then GWF then TR, then others to try, but didn't take them to max because they weren't fun to me. Waiting for druid.
Please stop judging based on the forum pic. I like the stance she has when she throws DisStrike. I am absolutely sure no one will think they should do anything of what I say based just on the amount of people bashing it, so while your motivation may be noble, the execution of what you wanted to do, protect new players, will only show them the toxicity that this game creates between people.
It's funny because if I said I was an Iron VanGuard using Takedown/FLS and IBS and Hidden Daggers, people would think I was a really good player, solely based on the fact that i am using a very similar set up to them, and they know how it works and that it does/can work. Or if I was using Flourish IBS and Hidden Daggers, That would be good too no? Even though nothing else is known about the build or how I play. just because I use the same encounters as most others, they will think i am a good player.
PC is a quick step out of any AoE ground target ability. You can juke FLS with PC with proper timing. If it were a true dodge, it would be absolutely OP LOL.
I am a Destroyer build, so you are already off base on builds. I only go up enough in instigator to get the silence on ML(only 1 point needed for 1 second silence) and get the rest in Flanking maneuvers(1.8 sec stun on crit). WMS crit = stun from flank maneuvers, because the second hit always hits from behind.
PC, ML, Take Down SureStrike WMS Destroyer and Weapon Master.
I only slot Steel Defense when i need to troll hard and eat a lot of encounters while contesting a point.
Honestly it seems like you just pieced that together based on things I have said in these posts, as in, you made it up - on the spot. Since you show Steel Defense and no other Passive Feature, and mention nothing of what At Wills you use or Dailys. Based on your join date, I am sure that none of your Characters were made before mine.
Please stop with the personal attacks and diminishing comments. Do you really want to be the cause of a thread being closed?
I am not a coward because TR was a fun class that I haven't played in a long time. It is a game, can't really judge peoples bravery or cowardice since there is nothing actually at stake. (Even though the way some people avoid death in this game is really quite funny. (Die on the Node or don't come to the Dom)
Your Troll Account Build failed because you have absolutely no kind of CC on your bar.
Battle Fury isn't going to help you if you have ML and PC slotted as well. I tried that, it is great if you want to be a permasprinter, but it isn't really great in combat. So I can see why you would have such a bad taste in your mouth. Try it out again, going Full destroyer and 15 in instigator. it is much different and MUCH better than trying it as full instigator. (Any wep with stacking Dot will help to get Instant stacks of DP)
Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic, so lets just end it and agree to disagree. I can play the way I like, and others can the way they like. I never said once that everyone should use this and do everything I do. But I also won't come in here calling them derogatory terms and trying to belittle their thoughts, opinions, and inputs.
You have my input on ways to deal with SE, take it or leave it. As always it is easier to just argue that there is nothing that can be done and the TR shouldnt have an attack like that. But really, it is ITC that makes them so ridiculous, it always has been and it always will be. ITC is the main reason people will pick MI over WK.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Pantomime doesn't translate as farce. It is miming. It is talking with your hands. Which is what typing is, after all.
pantomime
[pan-tuh-mahym]
noun
1.
the art or technique of conveying emotions, actions, feelings, etc., by gestures without speech.
I thought you were a more reasonable person who would actually read and reply. but instead it is some bashing, putting a quote of me in your sig - as a form of mockery - and unequivocally immature , and then talked about a bunch of other people, who i am assuming are considered the best players, and then belittling yourself as a sign of modesty towards them for some reason.
The condescension in these forums is beyond ripe. As is apparently the amount of egg shells one should walk on when coming here.I have nothing to teach you, but you all should learn some interpersonal communication, which includes listening - in this case reading, actually READING. Absorbing what you have read, and then replying to it.instead of simply taking a quick look, grabbing what is most salient to you, and then only replying to that one part.
Why would I go through the trouble of recording a video? You are the one complaining about SE. I gave you ways to deal with it. if you don't want to use them, then don't. And enjoy being killed by SE every time. There really isn't much else you can do about it.
Thanks for keeping it friendly, constructive, respective, and informative. Peace.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
you are amazing and i love you.FIRST PERSON ON THESE FORUMS WHO ACTUALLY HAS SOME SENSE IN THEIR HEADS!!!!
Feels like playing a TR changes something in that person's mind.
Stop lying, insulting and misleading other players. GWF right now has no dodge in any encounter or mechanic, Mighty Leap or Punishing Charge have no dodge, you may only TRY (I repeat TRY) to get out of range using it but what practice proves: most of the time (I would rather say constantly) you are getting hit in the middle of performing this encounters with whatever opponent power: cc or not, daily or not, you won’t survive anyway. Why I accused you about insulting other players? – because TR/CW/HR/GF will kill you even easier when you will be trying to use this powers you suggested and STAY in combat. You constantly trying to make your gwf opponents stupid, and your “tactic” was tested long time ago by most of gwfs and IT DOES NOT WORK. Stop trying to make fools of us and blind to your wonderful “tactic”. This game isn’t a rocket science you know? Try to imagine (I really suggest you do that) that your enlightening discover of an excellent strategy and tactic for gwf might have been already discovered and tested by others long time ago.
GWF was promised some changes by devs (2 weeks after mod 6), GentelmenCrush was saying in GWF thread that we may get dodge on sprint and some other changes. But we know what current state of this game is…(many weeks after mod 6 release basic GWF class feature Weapon Master still doesn’t work when you add 4 point into it, other classes have the same issues with their class features too). Until we won’t get those promised changes there’s no effective tactic in pvp for GWF class, you may only run with DC/Paladin healing you as some kind of body guard (but healing DC does not rly need a body guard he is very hard to kill, Paladin doesn’t need one either…).
And no, this is not a start of discussion from my part, this is trying to end it (yes you may always think we all are bad gwf players and can't have good timing on that wonderfull and effective enounters Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge, lets stick to that and end this off-topic posts).
About Topic of this thread:
I do not understand why some players are saying that Executioner can’t sustain perma-stealth? He CAN and on Executioner path with Shadowborn feat you can have even 40k power on Shocking Execution in stealth +100% crit and even more piercing with Oppresive Darkness class feature (like even without that TRs wouldn’t have enough piercing). So yes this class and daily SE need changes. But seriously, who cares..? (for many months it looks like nobody except some smaller and smaller with every day community)
Maintain perma-stealth without Return to Shadows is possible but is really hard and of course, as executioner you can't just running around hitting from stealth as saboteurs do.
To have 40k power rating in the next attack after go stealth you need to have 20k power, and as you know we all are running around with 20k power, a purple pony and a magic unicorn (just making obvious the fact that the argument of the 40k power rating is just exaggerate/ridiculous).
No one uses Oppressive Darkness as it was nerfed (in the preview server) making it completely useless.
About perma stealth - it's harder but still possible, and SE on Executioner path has crazy dmg.
About that 40k power - I was told about TR who had 18k power in pvp so 36k isn't that far from 40k, perhaps some day we will get back an option of checking players while pvp, you will get a screenshot then. I was writing what is possible not about green/blue gear newbie players in pvp (not so few TRs have 16k power which gives you 32k on first attack in stealth avoiding DR).
I don't know any TR that stacks 18k power, it doesn't means that they couldn't exists just that I've never seen one. A part from that, what the Shadowborn feat do is increment the power rating of the next attack a 100% (when maxed) that doesn't means that it multiply your Power by two, just that increment in a 100% how power affects to the damage of your next attack.
I stack 10.457 power right now and that means for me (in PvE) to hit with LB for 75k instead of 56k. I wish it really work as you said.
EDIT: I already said that is possible go quasi-perma-stealth in non saboteur but is just hard and the RoI is not that high
First of all, you have to understand that slotting mighty leap is inefficient too in 99% of the situations with only that upside of slotting a dodge to avoid SE.
Slotting, to say, ITC, or shield on tab, is a "universal" setup that allows you to face all the classes and it's useful to face every kind of enemy.
Slotting mighty leap is useful only to dodge SE, it's useless and sub-optimal to face anything else, including a TR apart from dodging SE daily. As a GWF, damage comes at you like a non-stop stream right now from both TRs and CWs. One dodge is useless to protect yourself from that. And is one encounter that takes away part of your damage or CC cause the silence effect you get is harder to get cause the power itself is harder to land in the heat of battle compared to FLS, and is not a stun. Also, you must dig all the way into the 3rd feat tree of instigator to get it, losing all the defensive feats of sentinel tree which are way more reliable and useful (5% deflect, mark damage boost and countless scars).
Slotting PC as a gap closer is also sub-optimal as it can get interrupted/ CCed easily.
Using PC-TD makes you lose the dodge from ML and also TD is still easily dodged, even with it going to a 2s cooldown you still waste precious time trying to land it and, also, it can be dodged, and when that happens, it goes on full cooldown. And any decent PvPer will dodge it making it crush on immunity.
Slotting stuff like ML, PC, TD or BF only allows you to "troll", which means you will annoy the enemy for a short time before their superior DPS brings your HPs down and you either die or sprint away.
Even if you're good at linking TD to threat rush or PC cancelling the animations, and even if you're good at faking the hit cancelling TD with sprint, a good CW/TR/HR/DC, pretty much every class played well, will dodge or just bunnyhop out of its range forcing you to fake again and again, while dealing no damage while they burst you down fast.
So while TD cooldown is virtually under 6 seconds, you never stun the enemy every 5.X seconds in PvP.
You also lose 40% damage buff from daggers.
So your DPS, i can tell you, are the GWF "base damage", which is low and not enough to not even make a CW with shield on tab+negation, or any other PvP-geared class, have the slightest concern about you. You will jump here and there, charge here and there while they either burn someone else and heal up with life steal cause they have all the time to make it proc at least one time (seen PvP toons with 20% LS chance).
No need for a video. Just let's meet in game and test your build in PvP. You think no GWF ever tested this stuff. We did. And the result is that it's sub-optimal or we would be using it right now.
Trolling enemies a bit and then run to pot is not needed in PvP.
Current most efficient setup is, and with a reason, GWF destroyer with 3 trees on sentinel to countless scars+5% deflect+damage on mark, negation, high LS chance with lifedrinker enchant, focused destroyer feat and bravery. Iron vanguard. Buff damage with daggers, focused destroyer, go unstoppable and in the end you have up to 150% damage buff and now you can deal massive damage with SS alone and then FLS-IBS to nuke down the enemy.
At PUG level you can also use different setups and hit-run being a very efficient killer. At BiS/ Premade level the above setup is needed i believe to survive a bit the crazy damage bursts coming at you.
GWF in this module has only one option, and the option is to buff fast and then nuke down the enemy in seconds cause now we have the tools to really be DPS monsters once we build up all our damage buffs. Still the class requires a lot more skill to both survive and land DPS than CWs or TRs, for example.
Trying to be a stun machine, or an extremely mobile troll is not efficient the same as the old module 4 runner build. It's a different way to play the class, it's sure. But from my own tests, it's less efficient and when the enemies are well geared and experienced this kind of setup will show all its flaws. Believe me.
But it's nice to see someone using his brain and doing his own build. If it suits your playstyle, good for you.
Still ,you've to understand that slotting mighty leap, even if that alone to face a TR, means you either give up daggers damage buff (40%) or FLS stun. And good luck catching the TR without a stun. If you go for ML-PC for extreme mobility and dodge, your damage will make a 100k HP TR laugh while he spam dodge rolls and proceed to burn you down during ML cooldown.
A GWF will never outrun a TR and imho the only real option is to balance the classes with:
- SE respecting tenacity like avery other power/daily/thing in PvP. TRs are not special, so there's no reason for their daily to pass through tenacity 100%. It's nonsense.
- GWF stuns being undeflectable or IBS animation being as fast as RS animation so it can be landed directly. Reason: GWF IBS is the only real nuke and requires CC to reliably land. It can still be deflected and dodged, but if you add deflectable stuns that pretty much make IBS unable to land if the stun is defelcted, you nullify most of GWF tools when facing a high deflect class like TRs or HRs. Cause it means that, to land IBS damage, the conditions are:
- You time-aim your stun perfectly, and avoid it being dodged (fine)
- IBS is not deflected (fine)
- Stun is not deflected (nope)
It adds a third layer of condition that makes the whole rotation extremely unreliable and is the only class that got such mechanic where 80% of DPS are linked to a CC power which can be deflected. A CW or TR or HR or any other class who gets its CC deflected can still deal most of its damage. A GWF, instead, has its whole rotation nullified, on top of being one of the 2 classes with no real tool to avoid SE damage unless they slot another rotation that pretty much nullifies completely their DPS, while a TR with ITC or a CW with shield on tab still have their DPS in place cause they don't need all the stacks a GWF needs but they get their DPS from the start (Storm spell, piercing damage exc...).
Just because slotting ML lowers your burst by replacing another encounter, thus making you say it isn't viable for pvp, doesn't mean it doesn't avoid SE dmg.
Please don't follow some false logic to prove your point. This is your logic as I read it.
---Skill not being viable in pvp , but negating damage on SE, means that there is no way to negate SE damage----
Do you see how that doesn't logically follow?
My screenshot above shows that it does Nullify SE damage. The viability in PvP was not the point being made.
The reliability of using ML to dodge things is really based on your own reaction time. But practice and you will dodge a lot.
Just as you practiced with how you play now, and you can land your combos well.
I wouldn't suggest using an encounter solely to deal with such a specific problem, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work
ML or Steel Defense proc off of a daily are your only real options to avoid it. Other than that, just hope you can live through it.
I don't run to potions, I die on the node. I contest, I don't chase kills. If I do run away, it is in hopes that the 2 people on me will follow me away from the node, if they don't then I zip back and continue contesting. because dying in this game doesn't have any real draw back. If you are running to pots all the time, you are way too concerned about your K/D ratio, and in fact are a hindrance to your team.
So to be clear one last time. And hopefully clear the air.
Fact and Disclaimer:
Using ML and PC will result in low burst potential, with a higher potential for avoidance,
!!!!!!NOT SUGGESTED FOR HIGH TIER PVP!!!!!
!!!!!!USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! DON"T EXPECT IT TO BE EASY!!!
!!!!!!DON"T EXPECT IT TO MAKE YOU A SUPER KILL GUY!!!
!!!!!!IT WILL NOT MAKE YOU A SUPER KILL GUY!!!!
If you want to be a Super Kill Guy then play a CW or TR
My K/D ratio isn't positive, but my assists are high and my wins out weigh losses. That should help shed a light as well on playing this way. This is a team oriented way of playing, with a possibility of node trolling.
There is that better?
Enjoy the rest of your conversation.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Really on topic: It says a whole lot when these threads about TR powers pretty much always develop into threads about under powered classes. It really looks like the TR is not op so much as gwf and sw need some help.
I had a GWF Iron Vanguard Sentinel way back in the day (right before iwd dropped). It ran 3-5 GWF guild premade troll comps vs pugs and I made my way through some pvp guilds that today are no longer around. I had an HR in a similar situation at the same time. This was when bis or near bis would only set you back $50-$100. The GWF was to troll and the HR was to kill GWFs, "Panzerjager" or "Tank hunter-killer". The nerf to both caused me to walk away from the game until a few months ago, late mod 5.
The point is, things change, classes become strong, classes become weak. We adapt or we play other games. Mod6 changed stealth in what originally was supposed to reduce its use. It only gave people an incentive to re-create and run perma-stealth builds. What do you think is going to happen if they change SE? It is going to result in TRs adapting in a way that will cause everyone to scream nerf again.
My humble opinion.
I am sorry it seemed that way. I merely meant its the only actual avoidance / dodge that we have as GWFs. So really the only other option is to take the hit of SE and die or be close to death. Sorry if it came across as rude or anything.
If punishing Charge worked like that, I am pretty sure it would be on a lot of GWF players bars. And I would love that kind of beef up for my play style! Even with out the double damage, the canceling of skills would be make it punishing enough.
The real problem is that SE isn't what you should be focused on / worried about at all. While I admit it is a lame skill, as is ITC, and why I have a WK since Wk came out, it is the complete synergy of all the different pieces playing in a TR's favor that give them their over abundance of good things.
GWF just needs some love, there isn't much you can do about anything until the devs make the changes live and we will see if it brings enough good to GWFs to compete with more than just 1 type of build.
This game has so much potential still, I really wish they would stop mucking it up mod after mod.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Maxed? Stacking power? Wth are you talking about? Shadowborn feat gives you +100% Power on next attack when you enter stealth. You are not stacking anything. It's easy to check it just enter stealth and see your power stat (if you have that feat), you may be in P Enclave - I wd give you a video example but my connection upload speed is to slow at place where I am right now.
On TR right now you can stay in stealth, hit like truck and have bazzilion dodges and stuns (even aoe stuns!) - what more wd player want? :rolleyes:
It's not classes changing.
It's a daily bypassing all sources of DR and being a 100% sure big nuke on GWF/SW is plain stupid, nonsense, unbalanced.
Even the OP GWFs back in the days, let's say module3, got to actually aim and time their bugged roar, and if focused they would go down. In fact, they were cancelled in premades and many premade players pointed that out. Also, TRs still got means to avoid roar if they kept moving or were not predictable so that the GWF could not roar them out of stealth. The GWF still got to predict where the stealth TR was in order to hit with Roar. So as OP as they were, it was a big shot away from current SE mechanic vs GWFs/SWs, which can be summarized in:
"i press this button, and no matter what you have, no matter what you do, you lose 70% of your HP. You can be sprinting at the right time, or in unstoppable, or both, have 20/40% tenacity or 42%+ 84% ArP resist, it doesn't matter. I press this button, i get my cookie".
The Devs nerfed GWFs to the ground in module 4 cause, their words:
- IBS landing on proned enemies and bypassing DR and deflect was wrong
- Unstoppable 50% DR popping too often was a non-proactive way of increase survivability
so they nerfed prones, nerfed unstoppable, nerfed det gain, buffed sprint to be "on par with other shift mechanics". Is it? Nope.
Then they introduced:
- Piercing damage going through everything
- CW shield on tab providing passive unmitigable DR to a ranged class
- Longer immunity rolls and 4 immunity rolls+ insta dodge (more reactive dodges) for other classes while sprint got a double use (gap closer and defense) but with only a 40% increase and a deleay at start, getting CC immunity which, btw, other dodge mechanics already have. And while a dodge allows other classes to avoid SE, sprint doesn't. On par with other shift mechanics? On par with CW teleport spam, TR dodge roll spam?
SE being a "press this button, see the GWF losing most of his HPs or just die. GWF got soulforged and you just killed it with SE pressing your "win" button? No problem. You get another SE to kill the **** cockroach again!".
Hey you make a lot of great points. What I have said all along is that they should just bring back to gwf what they took away from it in mod 3. Which was a lot. GWF got castrated and since then every other class but sw got buffed up. A lot. Return GWF and HR to its mod 2 state, give SWs a legit defense mechanic, and everything is good to go. SE on a mod2 gwf meant that you go from a gwf with full health to suddenly a gwf in unstoppable with full health.
Well they gutted FLS also.