Another TR/CW player whose will tell me that Shocking Execution can be out runned by GWF??? Hope you do not suggest to slot "Mighty Leap" to dodge it... (but you would not be the first one on doing so... so...)
EDIT: Seems like some players still do not get a "basic" about some classes (2, in fact): Some classes just CANT avoid SE, even if it has a LOUSY FX!!!!
No I dont believe you slightly higher gear TR hit my SW with SE while im daze and it only shred 20k HP. Different story if you have less hp coz that is a intended finisher with long casting animation which can be dodge or out run not to mention it can be disrupted I use CaGI with my GWF no problem TR are easily counter moderate damage class.
People still crying over SE while some classes have encounters (anvil of doom) that as much if not more damage than SE. Once again, it is an underpowered class issue (gwf/sw) not an overpowered class/feature issue.
People still crying over SE while some classes have encounters (anvil of doom) that as much if not more damage than SE. Once again, it is an underpowered class issue (gwf/sw) not an overpowered class/feature issue.
Seriously? Anvil of doom? You're gonna go with that? What about the requirement for the target to be bellow 40% hp? What about crit chance? What about deflect chance? What about DR? Stop embarrassing yourself.
So, AoD respecting all defenses plus need to have some "conditions" to get those numbers is far worse than a hit that has a 100% crit rate from stealth, hurts for 60ks vs full HP players and ignores every single defense mechanic... nice to know.
Seriously? Anvil of doom? You're gonna go with that? What about the requirement for the target to be bellow 40% hp? What about crit chance? What about deflect chance? What about DR? Stop embarrassing yourself.
holy **** lol...I hope you didn't hurt yourself typing that out, I almost feel like I induced a seizure or some kind of panic attack.
No embarrassment in being wrong about something. I would like to see the gear behind the really big SE numbers though. I get it that at higher gear levels 100k+ unmitigated damage is a problem, so it would make sense for either the damage to be toned down a good bit or for it to be damage that can be mitigated at least to an extent.
hmmpfff. Ok, nerf S.E., remove steath tab mechanic, remove dodges, remove all abilities of TR. TR stay OP. Raging is more easy than learn to play.
Why ? Because they are rogues, the more hated class, since Beta.
Few GWF and SW can dodge my S.E., i don't know why others can't learn how it is possible. They are a lot of pvp aspects who need rework before details like S.E.
Few GWF and SW can dodge my S.E., i don't know why others can't learn how it is possible. They are a lot of pvp aspects who need rework before details like S.E.
It is possible to dodge SE. Good luck working out the timing for it though. GWF Mighty Leap at right time, others just dodge at right time. I have done it a handful of times. The window of timing is small, possibly even a bug? But Since Mod 1, I have dodged SE's randomly. Feel free to test with friends and see if you can find the window of opportunity to dodge SE
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
as a tr i have to agree gwf do suffer from a disadvantage when it come to 1v1 with tr. but at the same time you need to remember 3 modules ago gwf were practically semi gods in pvp!!!
but i do agree gwf need some buff when i comes to pvp more dmg resistance or extra hp or something to make them be able to face trs.
Using Migty Leap to avoid SE is stupid mechanic becouse this is wasting of 1 encounter to have any chance to survive. GWF is in very bad situation vs TR ( hmmmm...to be honest like all classes X_X) from long time, tank builds are useless becouse of TR's piercing damage so for what GWF should pump up Defensive statistics if it can be avoid by piercing damage? This deprives us of diversity in this game and this is very annoying.
PS. Mister up on my post. GWF was semi god in pvp....and only TR was able to kill him then, if you want to, you can find movies on YT
Using Migty Leap to avoid SE is stupid mechanic becouse this is wasting of 1 encounter to have any chance to survive. GWF is in very bad situation vs TR ( hmmmm...to be honest like all classes X_X) from long time, tank builds are useless becouse of TR's piercing damage so for what GWF should pump up Defensive statistics if it can be avoid by piercing damage? This deprives us of diversity in this game and this is very annoying.
PS. Mister up on my post. GWF was semi god in pvp....and only TR was able to kill him then, if you want to, you can find movies on YT
■ You mean as stupid as the CW having to waste his essential [TAB] slot to non-offensive shield for pure need for survival?
■ You mean as stupid as MI TRs having no choice but to waste one of his precious slots to ITC in face of all the CCs going on (and then having to waste another one to SS because the stealth mechanic setup is prohibitive and stupid)?
What's so stupid about having to use a specific power to address a specific need?
That is essentially what PvP build/tactics are -- selection and focus. You can't address everything by yourself, so you focus on essential issues that you think are most important. Hence CWs find survival most important and allocate their mastery slot to shield, and MI TRs find avoiding CCs the key to survival so they allocate a precious encounter slot to it.
Now, in regards to principle, I want to make it clear that:
(1) SE needs to be changed so that SW/GWFs also have some sort of chance to be able to avoid it
(2) piercing damage is stupid
(3) the 'double-tap' that allows you another use of SE when you kill with it, is stupidest idea ever
So I'm not necessarily contesting the need to nerf SE. However, I am contesting your bullshi* argument in regards to principle. Everybody chooses to their own need. If you need something but do not build for it, then you suffer the consequences of that something. Simple as that.
As it is, if you feel that it is so much more important to avoid SE than use that other slot for more offense/defense, then you do it. If you think using that slot for more offense/defense is more important than avoiding SE, then you do that. It's the same with any other class, any other player, any other game even.
■ You mean as stupid as the CW having to waste his essential [TAB] slot to non-offensive shield for pure need for survival?
■ You mean as stupid as MI TRs having no choice but to waste one of his precious slots to ITC in face of all the CCs going on (and then having to waste another one to SS because the stealth mechanic setup is prohibitive and stupid)?
What's so stupid about having to use a specific power to address a specific need?
That is essentially what PvP build/tactics are -- selection and focus. You can't address everything by yourself, so you focus on essential issues that you think are most important. Hence CWs find survival most important and allocate their mastery slot to shield, and MI TRs find avoiding CCs the key to survival so they allocate a precious encounter slot to it.
Now, in regards to principle, I want to make it clear that:
(1) SE needs to be changed so that SW/GWFs also have some sort of chance to be able to avoid it
(2) piercing damage is stupid
(3) the 'double-tap' that allows you another use of SE when you kill with it, is stupidest idea ever
So I'm not necessarily contesting the need to nerf SE. However, I am contesting your bullshi* argument in regards to principle. Everybody chooses to their own need. If you need something but do not build for it, then you suffer the consequences of that something. Simple as that.
As it is, if you feel that it is so much more important to avoid SE than use that other slot for more offense/defense, then you do it. If you think using that slot for more offense/defense is more important than avoiding SE, then you do that. It's the same with any other class, any other player, any other game even.
The really funny thing about SE is that GWFs and SW's are the last classes I feel I ever NEED to use it on. They are dispatched with a daze and maybe one or two rotations of duelists flurry. The classes I want to use SE in order to quickly eliminate a major threat are classes that require some tactics to be able to use SE on. Otherwise they will dodge it, or their temp hp will eat it, or you will have that damage reflected right back onto you. Picking on SW's with SE is a kind of asshattery reserved for when a match is pretty much shot anyways or GG shenanigans.
Fortunatelly, i predicted that a TR or a CW player will tell us, GWF players, slot "Mighty Leap"... In response to your ... um... i will be kind and gentle and define it as "response"... i say this: if i slot Mighty leap, will you not slot S.E. ?? Is a fair trade, dont you think??
I have a TR CW and GWF. As those are the only classes that I find fun to play (waiting on Druid or Bard). I don't ever slot SE on my TR because my paragon path doesn't have it.
I usually run with mighty leap slotted on my GWF as well as Punishing Charge, because they are very useful if used correctly.
You dont slot mighty leap solely for trying to dodge a SE. (which of course is very next to impossible if the TR is smart and does it from stealth) You can dodge everything and anything with it. If you are an instigator build you also get boosted dmg, combat advantage, a silence on everyone hit in the area and a 25% reduced cooldown. It isn't a waste of an encounter slot if you actually use mighty leap. Just most GWFs still for for bang bang boom basic cookie cutter set up combo, so in their eyes, it is a waste of an encounter slot.
Honestly, SE has always been a thorn in PVPs side. They could easily just cut the range on it so a GWF that isn't using mighty leap or PC to help extend the gap quicker, they can still just shift sprint out. (As long as they are aware it is coming of course)
But Mighty Leap even for not a dodge is an instant 25 gap greater/closer, coupled with PC which is another instant gap closer/creator is a good way to get out of it as well.
Now I am going to stop divulging how I play my GWF.
TL;DR
GWF has ways to deal with SE. they just aren't ideal in the regards to how most people want to play GWF or feel like they HAVE to play it / build it. as for SW's, no idea, never got one up past level 30.
Easiest fix, is to just reduce the range on the **** thing, so both GWF and SW can get out of it. Make the TR;s that use SE actually have to think about how and when they use it. Not just press 1 and done.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
■ You mean as stupid as MI TRs having no choice but to waste one of his precious slots to ITC in face of all the CCs going on (and then having to waste another one to SS because the stealth mechanic setup is prohibitive and stupid)?
-Sure, remove ITC from TRs, The day when ITC stop providing CC immune will be the best days in this game for me
Between CW shield + TR ITC and GWF migty Leap there is only one but significant difference- They are always working. Little example? You are making SE, GWF can hear that and he is using migty leap. Now as a smart TR you should use your dodge to stop animation of SE and land it after next 2 seconds with 100% effectiveness, but maybe you are not enough smart? Thats why i think, it is just stupid.
PS. CW shield again, you don't like it, but I assure you that i don't like it too. Do you think it is funny for me wasting my place for offensive encounter and replace it with Shield without which i have no chance to survive against any class 1 vs 1?
Now, in regards to principle, I want to make it clear that:
(1) SE needs to be changed so that SW/GWFs also have some sort of chance to be able to avoid it
(2) piercing damage is stupid
(3) the 'double-tap' that allows you another use of SE when you kill with it, is stupidest idea ever
So I'm not necessarily contesting the need to nerf SE. However, I am contesting your bullshi* argument in regards to principle. Everybody chooses to their own need. If you need something but do not build for it, then you suffer the consequences of that something. Simple as that.
Well, maybe this is my fault that you missunderstanding me, so i want to say it more clear. I am not saying "this is stupid to place encounter which let you avoid dmg or part of the enemy damage to you" but i said "Using Migty Leap to avoid SE is stupid mechanic" becouse to be honest... if you meet smart TR he will land it on you anyway so this is waste of encounter for me. Thats what i mean....
U WOT M8 slot Not so Fast as the third encounter to unleash the maximum potential of GWF class.
third encounter is take down on a 5.5 second cool down. Ill keep my ability to juke everyone and stun them every 5 seconds instead of an unreliable easy to avoid combo that everyone knows is coming. Thanks for the great input on the topic though. Make sure to keep trying the same things against what is giving you difficulties, and then being perplexed as to why you can't deal with them and they are giving you difficulties. Square peg Round hole syndrome.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Would be glad to see a video of you playing that GWF, just for lulz. Any half competent player of any class would shut you down while you're trying to land takedown and jumping around like an ape with mighty leap and punishing charge. Maybe your tactic is to troll-run away trying to lure idiots from capping nodes but I'm absolutely sure you won't kill anyone with that ability setup, unless the ones you're fighting are way unskilled and undergeared.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
On that sense, i think, obsydian is saying that the "utility" that brings "mighty leap" can not be compared with the "utility" that brings TAB shield and ItC.
If I miss Take down its like a 2 sec cool down. Which is like nothing, just as a TR who dodge cancels SE would have.
PC is just over 6 second cooldown (recharge time) for me. So essentially every 6 seconds a have a 30ft instant gap closer that has a stun.
PC -> Takedown is a 32' (give or take, PC is 25' and take down is like 7' or 10 i can't remember off the top of my head) gap closer that ends in an immediate take down. There is no stall between the end of PC and Takedown going off.
Do you guys not understand how to shift cancel Takedown to make people dodge when you want them too?
This reminds me of people back in the day saying Flourish was a horrible skill because all the "good" players will dodge it, and it will only work on"PuGs". Same concept here, shift cancel to make animation go but skill stay off cool down. making your target waste a dodge because he thinks you are really using flourish.
People only see value in Big Damage numbers. Guess how much damage these big nukes do to me? None, because they miss.
What is the biggest weakness of any class in this games PvP? Being Controlled for even a second, because it leads to chain stunning lock down. Avoiding the initial lock with Mighty Leap and well timed Shift sprints makes it so you don't get put into that chain lock and waste half your life then popping Unstoppable because you have to.
Can't leave the SE 30' range? Tap shift sprint, and leap or PC. You are outside of 30ft range in about 1 second.
I do some times run pass mid and drag people to their home point. If they don't follow me then I will try and cap it. If thy do, I will troll the point by juking big hits thus making me live MUCH longer. I do this when necessary, because some people dont understand that contesting points and capping points is the name of the game.
The way others play GWf has a huge capability for damage. But any good player, and GWF knows that, if you make them miss their FLS they are pretty much unable to use IBS unless they also have TakeDown slotted. But I am imagining most have Hidden Daggers on because its another easy to use no thought put into it skill, and those are the skills that people like. See enemy GWF coming in, you know he is going to try and FLS from a short distanc, so you just mighty leap to him and TakeDown when you land. Hit him with some WMS SS combo and PC through him, He turns around targeting where you were, because he is not expecting you to run directly through him.
Another point to think about. 3 PC's and a Mighty leap is enough mobility to stay on top of a Rogue or CW or Ranger with out having to use any sprint for gap closing. Allowing you to save all your stamina for using quick taps of Shift to time and use for negating control effects. And every 5.5 seconds they are getting a stun.
The fact that no one is even willing to try and see the beneficial applications of this shows you the mindset people have on GWF (and in this game). That there is really only 1 way that is considered right or effective. It's just like for my TR hen I was Whisper Knife through mod 4 and 5, people always saying, that will never work against good permastealth TRs. It worked just wonderfully for me though.
Why did it work for me, just as this weird GWF build does? Because I KNOW WHAT MY ENEMIES ARE GOING TO DO BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS THE SAME EXACT ENCOUNTER SETUP / PLAY STYLE BASED ON THESE ENCOUNTERS. IF I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO I CAN REACT ACCORDINGLY AND CONTROL THE FLOW OF THE FIGHT. MEANWHILE THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM GOING TO DO OR AM DOING. BUT BEING A GWF, STAYING NEAR YOUR ENEMY IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE, TO KEEP PRESSURE ON THEM. PC AND MIGHTYLEAP ALLOW YOU TO STICK TO ANYONE INDEFINITELY. ALWAYS BEING CLOSE TO THEM MAKES THEM FRUSTRATED AND UNDER TOO MUCH PRESSURE, MAKING THEM RUIN THEIR PLANNED ROTATIONS AND PUTTING THEM IN A DEFENSIVE POSITION. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, GETS THEM FOCUSED ON YOU, JUST LIKE TAUNTING AN NPC.
What is the greatest defense in this or any game? Not being able to be hit. I don't mean purely dodging and stuff, as Mighty leap is the only dodge we have really. But PC and Sprint also lend to the GWFs ability to play smart and Break enemies LoS on him when he needs.
Maybe one day I will make a video, but based on how my old thread of Whisper Knife theory craft went, I see no need to share any ideas with the player base. I tried to do it here and all it does is cause a bunch of nay sayers to come out of the wood work. Yet, if I posted a video of how it works, I am pretty sure people would try it out. If you are curious, I gave enough ideas behind the concept these powers that you can try it out for yourself if you are curious.
TL;DR
Mighty leap and 3 PCs is enough mobility to stay on TRs, CWs, Rangers and everyone else with out using sprint as a gap closer. Allowing you to use stamina solely for Tapping Shift for Short Sprint Bursts to be immune to CC.
Shift cancel Take Down, making people dodge and keeping TakeDown off cooldown.
Short sprint burst + PC or Mighty leap = you are out of SE range in about 1 second.
So many people use the same exact set up, giving you knowledge of their actions and battle plan, giving you the upper hand if you are smart. Meanwhile, they have no idea what you are doing, thus no idea how to react or try and control the battle. You make the classes that need CC in order to fight miss that CC, and they are instantly in a disadvantageous situation.
As for SE and TR's in general. Master Infiltrator has always been a really easy class to be good with at PvP. I say make ITC only break CC instead of making them immune to it. (If they break CC then it grants the CC immunity) But they can't just pop it before they are CC'ed and be granted an immunity as well. If they pop it before being CC'ed then it shoul donly give them the deflect buff and no CC buff.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
- i really like to see a GWF land IBS after a Mighty Leap vs regular PvP Players (PuGs usually do not count due anyone can go with Mighty Leap, Not So Fast and Roar on PvP and kill most of them).
Sorry, Stopped reading there:
Mind if you rec yourself playing PvP matches vs non-pugs players and using Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge?? I really will appreciate it.
Why would you try to land IBS on something that isn't stunned or rooted? That is just stupid. It's why everyone uses FLS or Flourish or Take Down AND IBS.
If you are going MightyLeap -> IBS, then you are doing it far beyond wrong. While Mighty Leap may be a joke of a power to most, there is a correct way to use it. And trying to use it as a set up power of IBS would just be, beyond dumb.
I wish people would see that using uber top level gear, the easiest cookie cutter build that generates the biggest numbers of damage != great level of skill of the player. Anyone can make the current FOTM class, like they do every update, and completely steamroll other people, playing classes that aren't the current OverPowered FOTM.
If you truly are a good player, then you should be able to beat the cookie cutter builds, using your own idea of a build. Think about it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Mighty leap is a 12ft burst radius. It is actually a 40ft jump. Which instantly gets you out of range of SE.
Mighty Leap allows you to avoid that 10k big hit or CC from range, because you can jump whenever the hell you need to. You don't need to be close to jump, come on man.
Mighty Leap allows you to last longer than 5 secs, it allows you to last longer than when you don't use it guaranteed. if you know how to use it.
For any one to land their full kill rotation on you, they have to hard CC you. Mighty Leap allows the avoidance of a hard CC opener. And disrupts their entire rotation.
The 5 sec Take Down is where the damage comes from. Every 5 secs you land a stun and combo the **** out of them then move and make them miss their guaranteed incoming counter skill which will most of the time be a CC attempt on you. Which is where you tap mighty leap to make them miss (or if you used ML as a counter to a hard CC opener, you simply tap shift and shrug it off), make them try to dodge away. But you tapping PC right when they dodge, puts you right next to them simultaneously as they arrive from the dodge. Couple more seconds and you have Take Down ready again. Using PC to keep them close to you even if they dodge allows you to use ALL OF YOUR STAMINA to resist incoming CC's.
It is all about timing.
The entire purpose of this all that you seem to be missing. is that it puts pressure on your enemy, making it very difficult for them to successfully do the rotation they are so used to mindlessly hitting in a quick succession. You throw this off, and most player are not good or quick enough to think of a different strategy to implement while they are in the heat of battle. They will keep trying their dedicated PvP rotation.
People are so blood thirsty that when you run in to a group of enemies, most of the time that ML you use to avoid someones CC opener, avoids 2 - 4 people opening hard CCs. Effectively tanking a bunch of CC for your team with out even being CC'ed or hurt.
Honestly, enemy GWFs are the things I fera the least with this build. because they all do the same thing, and this counters it very easily. As it counters rogues, because if you see them once, see what ay they dodge and just tap PC to go with them and immediately as you hit PC hit TakeDown as well. This makes it so that take down hits your target upon your arrival of PC, which is their arrival of their dodge, since you are pretty much right with them through their whole dodge. There is a window between dodges where a player can't dodge, this is the xact same time a PC->Take Down lands it's stun.
The style is very different, trust me when I say it is effective. You won't have the Burst of other GWFs since no IBS, but you also won't be bursted down as quickly as those other GWFs. If you play smart and use this thing called situational awareness. And also pay attention to each of your enemies encounters and decode their rotation from that. This will tell you when and how you should be dedicating the use of ML.
If I make a video it will solely show the escape from SE. I feel no need to show exactly how I play when most of the information is here. And most people wouldn't like it because it doesn't have big shiny IBS numbers. But please dont go telling people ML has a range of 12ft when it is a range of 40.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Comments
No I dont believe you slightly higher gear TR hit my SW with SE while im daze and it only shred 20k HP. Different story if you have less hp coz that is a intended finisher with long casting animation which can be dodge or out run not to mention it can be disrupted I use CaGI with my GWF no problem TR are easily counter moderate damage class.
haha! thats it? thats SE what a joke! TR are average they cant pne rotate a decent properly build toon compared to a CW
gtfo 10/char
Seriously? Anvil of doom? You're gonna go with that? What about the requirement for the target to be bellow 40% hp? What about crit chance? What about deflect chance? What about DR? Stop embarrassing yourself.
okokok :P
holy **** lol...I hope you didn't hurt yourself typing that out, I almost feel like I induced a seizure or some kind of panic attack.
No embarrassment in being wrong about something. I would like to see the gear behind the really big SE numbers though. I get it that at higher gear levels 100k+ unmitigated damage is a problem, so it would make sense for either the damage to be toned down a good bit or for it to be damage that can be mitigated at least to an extent.
Why ? Because they are rogues, the more hated class, since Beta.
Few GWF and SW can dodge my S.E., i don't know why others can't learn how it is possible. They are a lot of pvp aspects who need rework before details like S.E.
Dodge? Sorry, what?
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
but i do agree gwf need some buff when i comes to pvp more dmg resistance or extra hp or something to make them be able to face trs.
PS. Mister up on my post. GWF was semi god in pvp....and only TR was able to kill him then, if you want to, you can find movies on YT
■ You mean as stupid as the CW having to waste his essential [TAB] slot to non-offensive shield for pure need for survival?
■ You mean as stupid as MI TRs having no choice but to waste one of his precious slots to ITC in face of all the CCs going on (and then having to waste another one to SS because the stealth mechanic setup is prohibitive and stupid)?
What's so stupid about having to use a specific power to address a specific need?
That is essentially what PvP build/tactics are -- selection and focus. You can't address everything by yourself, so you focus on essential issues that you think are most important. Hence CWs find survival most important and allocate their mastery slot to shield, and MI TRs find avoiding CCs the key to survival so they allocate a precious encounter slot to it.
Now, in regards to principle, I want to make it clear that:
(1) SE needs to be changed so that SW/GWFs also have some sort of chance to be able to avoid it
(2) piercing damage is stupid
(3) the 'double-tap' that allows you another use of SE when you kill with it, is stupidest idea ever
So I'm not necessarily contesting the need to nerf SE. However, I am contesting your bullshi* argument in regards to principle. Everybody chooses to their own need. If you need something but do not build for it, then you suffer the consequences of that something. Simple as that.
As it is, if you feel that it is so much more important to avoid SE than use that other slot for more offense/defense, then you do it. If you think using that slot for more offense/defense is more important than avoiding SE, then you do that. It's the same with any other class, any other player, any other game even.
The really funny thing about SE is that GWFs and SW's are the last classes I feel I ever NEED to use it on. They are dispatched with a daze and maybe one or two rotations of duelists flurry. The classes I want to use SE in order to quickly eliminate a major threat are classes that require some tactics to be able to use SE on. Otherwise they will dodge it, or their temp hp will eat it, or you will have that damage reflected right back onto you. Picking on SW's with SE is a kind of asshattery reserved for when a match is pretty much shot anyways or GG shenanigans.
I have a TR CW and GWF. As those are the only classes that I find fun to play (waiting on Druid or Bard). I don't ever slot SE on my TR because my paragon path doesn't have it.
I usually run with mighty leap slotted on my GWF as well as Punishing Charge, because they are very useful if used correctly.
You dont slot mighty leap solely for trying to dodge a SE. (which of course is very next to impossible if the TR is smart and does it from stealth) You can dodge everything and anything with it. If you are an instigator build you also get boosted dmg, combat advantage, a silence on everyone hit in the area and a 25% reduced cooldown. It isn't a waste of an encounter slot if you actually use mighty leap. Just most GWFs still for for bang bang boom basic cookie cutter set up combo, so in their eyes, it is a waste of an encounter slot.
Honestly, SE has always been a thorn in PVPs side. They could easily just cut the range on it so a GWF that isn't using mighty leap or PC to help extend the gap quicker, they can still just shift sprint out. (As long as they are aware it is coming of course)
But Mighty Leap even for not a dodge is an instant 25 gap greater/closer, coupled with PC which is another instant gap closer/creator is a good way to get out of it as well.
Now I am going to stop divulging how I play my GWF.
TL;DR
GWF has ways to deal with SE. they just aren't ideal in the regards to how most people want to play GWF or feel like they HAVE to play it / build it. as for SW's, no idea, never got one up past level 30.
Easiest fix, is to just reduce the range on the **** thing, so both GWF and SW can get out of it. Make the TR;s that use SE actually have to think about how and when they use it. Not just press 1 and done.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
U WOT M8 slot Not so Fast as the third encounter to unleash the maximum potential of GWF class.
-Sure, remove ITC from TRs, The day when ITC stop providing CC immune will be the best days in this game for me
Between CW shield + TR ITC and GWF migty Leap there is only one but significant difference- They are always working. Little example? You are making SE, GWF can hear that and he is using migty leap. Now as a smart TR you should use your dodge to stop animation of SE and land it after next 2 seconds with 100% effectiveness, but maybe you are not enough smart? Thats why i think, it is just stupid.
PS. CW shield again, you don't like it, but I assure you that i don't like it too. Do you think it is funny for me wasting my place for offensive encounter and replace it with Shield without which i have no chance to survive against any class 1 vs 1?
+1 d(^.^)b
Well, maybe this is my fault that you missunderstanding me, so i want to say it more clear. I am not saying "this is stupid to place encounter which let you avoid dmg or part of the enemy damage to you" but i said "Using Migty Leap to avoid SE is stupid mechanic" becouse to be honest... if you meet smart TR he will land it on you anyway so this is waste of encounter for me. Thats what i mean....
third encounter is take down on a 5.5 second cool down. Ill keep my ability to juke everyone and stun them every 5 seconds instead of an unreliable easy to avoid combo that everyone knows is coming. Thanks for the great input on the topic though. Make sure to keep trying the same things against what is giving you difficulties, and then being perplexed as to why you can't deal with them and they are giving you difficulties. Square peg Round hole syndrome.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Thank you :P
PC is just over 6 second cooldown (recharge time) for me. So essentially every 6 seconds a have a 30ft instant gap closer that has a stun.
PC -> Takedown is a 32' (give or take, PC is 25' and take down is like 7' or 10 i can't remember off the top of my head) gap closer that ends in an immediate take down. There is no stall between the end of PC and Takedown going off.
Do you guys not understand how to shift cancel Takedown to make people dodge when you want them too?
This reminds me of people back in the day saying Flourish was a horrible skill because all the "good" players will dodge it, and it will only work on"PuGs". Same concept here, shift cancel to make animation go but skill stay off cool down. making your target waste a dodge because he thinks you are really using flourish.
People only see value in Big Damage numbers. Guess how much damage these big nukes do to me? None, because they miss.
What is the biggest weakness of any class in this games PvP? Being Controlled for even a second, because it leads to chain stunning lock down. Avoiding the initial lock with Mighty Leap and well timed Shift sprints makes it so you don't get put into that chain lock and waste half your life then popping Unstoppable because you have to.
Can't leave the SE 30' range? Tap shift sprint, and leap or PC. You are outside of 30ft range in about 1 second.
I do some times run pass mid and drag people to their home point. If they don't follow me then I will try and cap it. If thy do, I will troll the point by juking big hits thus making me live MUCH longer. I do this when necessary, because some people dont understand that contesting points and capping points is the name of the game.
The way others play GWf has a huge capability for damage. But any good player, and GWF knows that, if you make them miss their FLS they are pretty much unable to use IBS unless they also have TakeDown slotted. But I am imagining most have Hidden Daggers on because its another easy to use no thought put into it skill, and those are the skills that people like. See enemy GWF coming in, you know he is going to try and FLS from a short distanc, so you just mighty leap to him and TakeDown when you land. Hit him with some WMS SS combo and PC through him, He turns around targeting where you were, because he is not expecting you to run directly through him.
Another point to think about. 3 PC's and a Mighty leap is enough mobility to stay on top of a Rogue or CW or Ranger with out having to use any sprint for gap closing. Allowing you to save all your stamina for using quick taps of Shift to time and use for negating control effects. And every 5.5 seconds they are getting a stun.
The fact that no one is even willing to try and see the beneficial applications of this shows you the mindset people have on GWF (and in this game). That there is really only 1 way that is considered right or effective. It's just like for my TR hen I was Whisper Knife through mod 4 and 5, people always saying, that will never work against good permastealth TRs. It worked just wonderfully for me though.
Why did it work for me, just as this weird GWF build does? Because I KNOW WHAT MY ENEMIES ARE GOING TO DO BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS THE SAME EXACT ENCOUNTER SETUP / PLAY STYLE BASED ON THESE ENCOUNTERS. IF I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO I CAN REACT ACCORDINGLY AND CONTROL THE FLOW OF THE FIGHT. MEANWHILE THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM GOING TO DO OR AM DOING. BUT BEING A GWF, STAYING NEAR YOUR ENEMY IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE, TO KEEP PRESSURE ON THEM. PC AND MIGHTYLEAP ALLOW YOU TO STICK TO ANYONE INDEFINITELY. ALWAYS BEING CLOSE TO THEM MAKES THEM FRUSTRATED AND UNDER TOO MUCH PRESSURE, MAKING THEM RUIN THEIR PLANNED ROTATIONS AND PUTTING THEM IN A DEFENSIVE POSITION. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, GETS THEM FOCUSED ON YOU, JUST LIKE TAUNTING AN NPC.
What is the greatest defense in this or any game? Not being able to be hit. I don't mean purely dodging and stuff, as Mighty leap is the only dodge we have really. But PC and Sprint also lend to the GWFs ability to play smart and Break enemies LoS on him when he needs.
Maybe one day I will make a video, but based on how my old thread of Whisper Knife theory craft went, I see no need to share any ideas with the player base. I tried to do it here and all it does is cause a bunch of nay sayers to come out of the wood work. Yet, if I posted a video of how it works, I am pretty sure people would try it out. If you are curious, I gave enough ideas behind the concept these powers that you can try it out for yourself if you are curious.
TL;DR
Mighty leap and 3 PCs is enough mobility to stay on TRs, CWs, Rangers and everyone else with out using sprint as a gap closer. Allowing you to use stamina solely for Tapping Shift for Short Sprint Bursts to be immune to CC.
Shift cancel Take Down, making people dodge and keeping TakeDown off cooldown.
Short sprint burst + PC or Mighty leap = you are out of SE range in about 1 second.
So many people use the same exact set up, giving you knowledge of their actions and battle plan, giving you the upper hand if you are smart. Meanwhile, they have no idea what you are doing, thus no idea how to react or try and control the battle. You make the classes that need CC in order to fight miss that CC, and they are instantly in a disadvantageous situation.
As for SE and TR's in general. Master Infiltrator has always been a really easy class to be good with at PvP. I say make ITC only break CC instead of making them immune to it. (If they break CC then it grants the CC immunity) But they can't just pop it before they are CC'ed and be granted an immunity as well. If they pop it before being CC'ed then it shoul donly give them the deflect buff and no CC buff.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Why would you try to land IBS on something that isn't stunned or rooted? That is just stupid. It's why everyone uses FLS or Flourish or Take Down AND IBS.
If you are going MightyLeap -> IBS, then you are doing it far beyond wrong. While Mighty Leap may be a joke of a power to most, there is a correct way to use it. And trying to use it as a set up power of IBS would just be, beyond dumb.
I wish people would see that using uber top level gear, the easiest cookie cutter build that generates the biggest numbers of damage != great level of skill of the player. Anyone can make the current FOTM class, like they do every update, and completely steamroll other people, playing classes that aren't the current OverPowered FOTM.
If you truly are a good player, then you should be able to beat the cookie cutter builds, using your own idea of a build. Think about it.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Mighty Leap allows you to avoid that 10k big hit or CC from range, because you can jump whenever the hell you need to. You don't need to be close to jump, come on man.
Mighty Leap allows you to last longer than 5 secs, it allows you to last longer than when you don't use it guaranteed. if you know how to use it.
For any one to land their full kill rotation on you, they have to hard CC you. Mighty Leap allows the avoidance of a hard CC opener. And disrupts their entire rotation.
The 5 sec Take Down is where the damage comes from. Every 5 secs you land a stun and combo the **** out of them then move and make them miss their guaranteed incoming counter skill which will most of the time be a CC attempt on you. Which is where you tap mighty leap to make them miss (or if you used ML as a counter to a hard CC opener, you simply tap shift and shrug it off), make them try to dodge away. But you tapping PC right when they dodge, puts you right next to them simultaneously as they arrive from the dodge. Couple more seconds and you have Take Down ready again. Using PC to keep them close to you even if they dodge allows you to use ALL OF YOUR STAMINA to resist incoming CC's.
It is all about timing.
The entire purpose of this all that you seem to be missing. is that it puts pressure on your enemy, making it very difficult for them to successfully do the rotation they are so used to mindlessly hitting in a quick succession. You throw this off, and most player are not good or quick enough to think of a different strategy to implement while they are in the heat of battle. They will keep trying their dedicated PvP rotation.
People are so blood thirsty that when you run in to a group of enemies, most of the time that ML you use to avoid someones CC opener, avoids 2 - 4 people opening hard CCs. Effectively tanking a bunch of CC for your team with out even being CC'ed or hurt.
Honestly, enemy GWFs are the things I fera the least with this build. because they all do the same thing, and this counters it very easily. As it counters rogues, because if you see them once, see what ay they dodge and just tap PC to go with them and immediately as you hit PC hit TakeDown as well. This makes it so that take down hits your target upon your arrival of PC, which is their arrival of their dodge, since you are pretty much right with them through their whole dodge. There is a window between dodges where a player can't dodge, this is the xact same time a PC->Take Down lands it's stun.
The style is very different, trust me when I say it is effective. You won't have the Burst of other GWFs since no IBS, but you also won't be bursted down as quickly as those other GWFs. If you play smart and use this thing called situational awareness. And also pay attention to each of your enemies encounters and decode their rotation from that. This will tell you when and how you should be dedicating the use of ML.
If I make a video it will solely show the escape from SE. I feel no need to show exactly how I play when most of the information is here. And most people wouldn't like it because it doesn't have big shiny IBS numbers. But please dont go telling people ML has a range of 12ft when it is a range of 40.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter