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Possibility of a new megatank WK Scoundrel build?
mirrorballs
Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
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mod6 feat Master Infighter: 10% extra DR
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rank4 of class feature Advantageous Position + artifact offhand classfeature augment: 20% extra DR for 8 seconds after leaving stealth
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rank4 of DHS: 15% damage debuff for 15 seconds
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rank4 of VP: 12% damage debuff for 15 seconds
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transcendent Feytouched: 18% damage debuff + 18% damage buff for you for 20s, 3 target AoE, once every 20 s = 100% uptime
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transcendent Negation: 3% x 10 stacks DR
Total DR:
+30 (TR average base DR)
+10 (Master Infighter)
+20 (r4 Advantageous Position + offhand artifact)
+30 (Transcendent Negation)
max 90% DR sustained for 8 seconds after destealth
Total damage debuff against target
-15 (r4 DHS)
-12 (r4 VP)
-18 (Transcendant Feytouched)
-45% damage for max 9 seconds, but all debuffs can be immediately refreshed = 100% uptime
Average Deflection chance
+50 (mod6 standard, WK, balanced CON/DEX/CHA investment, boons/feats)
+10 (Mocking Gesture: 10 seconds directly after stealthing)
+10 (Survivor: under 30% HP threshold)
average 60% chance, if one maintains "stealth-attack as quickly as possible and destealth"
New Fighting Style
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give up the old stealth and chain daze tactic
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new tactic 1: stealth as late as possible, plant DHS+VP
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new tactic 2: follow-up with 3~4 CoS, stealth is depleted
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new tactic 3: this leaves you about 8 seconds to go with Mocking Gesture effect, which roughly syncs with the 8s advantageous position duration, and the VP debuff duration which has about 7s left
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always remember to keep DHS+VP+TFey combo debuffs up. At any given time, your opponents will always be limited to less than half of his potential damage output (DHS+VP+Tfey+Master Infighter)
As a TR, almost always has the first attack advantage. The opponent will almost always have DHS+VP+TFeytouched applied on him. The WK scoundrel begins the attack. Skullcracker is nerfed, so at most it's now only 3 second daze. 3 seconds past, the enemy retaliates with a mega, 50k damage attack. At this point, TNegation hasn't kicked in yet, so it's a -45% damage debuffed attack against a 60% DR.
...the 50k attack is reduced to 11k.
He hits you with a 100k damage attack? No sweat. It's gonna do only 22k.
I think I'm gonna be rolling with this setup.
...you f-ers whined to the devs to take away my daze? Okee.
Now I'll just straight-up slap you around out of stealth.
I think I'll try going toe-to-toe against Sentinels now.
trolollololol
Post edited by mirrorballs on
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Comments
regards
Of course.
It does have a predecessor of a build tho', and experimental setup I used to run briefly in mod4, with the same P.Negation and P.Feytouched. The overall debuff strength was of course, much weaker than current numbers for mod6, but it did have the effect of... let's say, when you'd be exposed to a full rotation from a CW that blows around 80% of your HP, it would contain the damage down to around 40% of your HP.
The reason I gave up on the setting was that the current versions of the P.Negation and P.Feytouched enchantmants all had a the "short uptime, long downtime" problem. P negation currently works for only like 6 seconds and then goes into a long cooldown, and Feytouched has a 50% uptime with 10s effect, and then 10s cooldown.
But now, both of the enchantments have changed radically. I think it has high probability of working out .
its good to see variety in builds being experimented
how are you going to deal with the cc of pvp? vp is terrible, pvp is CC-City.
your experiment requires too much preparation time, and pvp is too fastpaced and cc is thrown left and right, and this thing to me seems more like an utility, like a dc or gf in #2 node.
once mod6 comes rec vids and post here
regards
I'm kinda hoping if a TR can keep up that much DR + deflect, it can sort of endure the whole process with just raw face tanking/brawling. Like said, the damage debuff can be kept up indefinitely, but the DR boost is basically timed.
When the TR is exposed by starting the attack from stealth, it will maintain for around 8 seconds 60% DR, which after that point the effects from advantageous position would disappear, but then would be replaced by the effects of T.Negation. \
So in reality, the TR probably won't have that theoretical 90% DR, but rather, would start off with 60%, and as time passes it would rise up to 63%... 66%... 69%... 72%... 75% as the effects of T.Negation start stacking, but than after 8 seconds Advantageous Position will fall off and take its 20% DR with it, and it would drop back down to 70% and stabilize there until next stealth.
So most probably, I'm thinking I would rather keep the VP mark on for that additional -12% damage debuff on the target, and use it up only when really, really, really necessary (like an impending, anticipated Ice Knife combo), and would just endure a CC rotation and hope it ends with only around 25~30% of my HP, instead of like taking away 70~80%.
When mixed in with Smokebomb, I think it could turn out to be a very tough TR that mainly operates out of stealth... perhaps the final arrival point of the "Combat TR" ideal, who knows.
Attack wise, I'm thinking WoB and CB as the dailies, since I've seen my TR power go upto 17k with the WoB powerboost, in which case melted down the elite-grade (not the normal version, but the version that turns up much tougher than normal) mobs that were 2 levels higher than me in one of those 10-people recommended HEs in one of the new zones... with a non-stealthed DF. I ended up clearing that HE alone which was actually quite easy, although admittedly it was those simplistic troll/lizard mobs. I figure if I can melt them down and kill one of those in less than 15 seconds with non-stealthed DF spamming with WoB power boost, it might have some meaning in PvP as well.
I might actually go for a non-SS using build.. perhaps if they finally fix the new stealth power, I actually might be able to pull it off.
(but this is still a long way to go I guess)
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
and people are upset with a cws shield omg
lets see the tr get the pvp nerf it needs
Love this Guy!!!!
Your Idea is awesome!!!
Me ....Am a Scoundrel that can run like helll...already very tough to kill ...53% Deflect and 45k on pvp 11.5 defensive stats
and 2 or 3 guys cant bring me down... and most of the time i kill 1 of them while the others are beating me and cant CC me and after that i run like hell, evade and dissapear......hahahhahahha
Last GG kill like 30 guys and got like 1 death trololol.... with ur ideas this class can become more OP than it is.... thx for the input...lets see how we do on mod 6... simehow i got a very nice feeling this will be awesome
It works, mor. I've fought and duked it out with saber's GWF without stealth and won.
But most of the potential still remains theoretical as my enchantments have not met the requirements in the original thesis yet. It's sort of lucky that I have perfect Feytouched and Negation enchantments as leftovers during those days of experimentation back in mod3~mod4, so it was fortunate that I could switch to those immediately since day1 of EE.
However, I've noticed that it is not without limitations, and this still doesn't simply make you a 'megatank' a la mod2 GWF. What I've noticed is that;
It's still a scoundrel build, which means its still optimized for 1vs1 scenarios. Against many people (...like 6~7, in the new Gauntlgrym.. lol) no amount of defense is going to save you
This is because despite the increased defense capacity,
ultimately, your real survival depends on maintaining the triple damage debuffs of DHS+VP+Feytouched -- and you can only do this against one at a timeI need more time (...and money... @!#*^!) to get P.Feytouched to T.Feytouched level to really test the full potential and see if the 3-target AoE debuff + 100% uptime makes a difference(although I'm quite sure it will)
I've also noticed Negation armour stacks run on different timers and don't use the standard 'new stack refreshes previous stacks' type of mechanics. This means it's actually quite difficult to maintain full 10 stacks, but as a trade-off, the stacks don't all instantly fall out .. instead, as time passes it falls off one by one.. and then comes up one by one.. Maintaining full stacks for any length of meaningful time is very difficult, but you always have some stacks up and it never just instantly goes away. Interesting.
In most PvE content, the lack of regeneration and constant life-steal isn't even noticeable. Your attacks will always proc more lifesteal heals than you lose HP
Against WoD or IWD level, I couldn't manage a straight-up out-of-stealth brawl against those mobs with lv60 gear I have currently. Using more stealth-based approach solves much of the problems... so I'm thinking that once my stats, gears, enchants and stuff are brought up to lv70 standards, I could probably manage an out-of-stealth all-out brawl against these mob groups
Who the fek's the idiot that thought of putting 50 dragon hoard coins per piece onto the new 65 blue gear?!
...and of course... the instances when it plain doesn't work well...
1. against CWs and their massive, repeated, random proc damage spikes
2. any type of piercing damage... HRs... Sabos.. what else?
Now the real problem is this:
Why do it with a scoundrel?
There's no reason to.
I find no reason to make a scoundrel now. The path is gutted down to uselessness. Most of the important feats, T1, T2, T3... all accessible to other paths anyway.
As a matter of fact, with the current feat placements, making a Saboteuer will give you a TR that:
deflects as well as a scoundrel
is as tough as a scoundrel (Negation and Feytouched enchants, Advantageous Position class feature and its power augment, DHS, VP, the new +10% DR feat that's tier3... none of what makes a tanky TR is exclusive to the scoundrel in the first place)
CCs as well as a scoundrel... chain-dazing can be done by any TR class, the longer version was only possible through how efficient Skull Cracker was... but now that SC and Concussive Strikes are both useless in PvP, basically the scoundrel doesn't hold any real 'cc advantage' over other paths
Let's face it. Mod5 scoundrel was a very impressive and powerful build, but the way the feats were set up, most of them were useless or not very effective. The only redeeming factor was that concussive strikes and Skull Cracker offered a chance of a concentrated assault once every 15 secs that would make up for its obvious shortcomings when compared with Sabo/Exec -- namely, survivability and damage.
The scoundrel feats above tier3... *sigh*... unlike how Sabo's T4~capstone or Exec's T4~capstone are the defining characteristics of the path, the scoundrel T4~capstone doesn't really add anything to the prowess of the build path. What it did, was try to make up for the gaping holes in the scoundrel path had.
Now that they've just killed and gutted down what the scoundrel path had to offer, ANY TR CAN BE JUST AS TANKY AS THE BUILD I'M EXPERIMENTED WITH, and then simply be a Sabo/Exec on top of it.
So, if you build a Sabo this way, you get an extremely tanky TR that can permastealth, and then deal the broken piercing damage <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. If you build an Exec this way, you get an extremely tanky TR that can 1-shot people.
If you build a Scoundrel this way, you get an extremely tanky TR... and nothing else.
That's what the scoundrel is now. This is the real tragedy and failure with this build. You don't need to make a scoundrel. Just do it with a Sabo and you'll get a permastealth TR with jaw-dropping damage that doesn't even need to make use of defenses, and then in the rare times when you are caught with the pants down, you can show the enemies that even your stick and balls are made of diamond.
What the changes/nerfs in the Scoundrel path did, simply created even more of a monster out of the already monstrous Saboteuer path.
Ruined mah day...
Seems to be, rayr.