I am going to blame my ISP no longer.

vasdamas · February 2015

Gateway's certificate expired, the game gives you SNRs before the match started resulting in you getting kicked just because of lame server problems. Why are some people getting that lag and the others don't, explain??

And no, it's not my ISP, I played DDO before I logged in Neverwinter and everything was fine in there.

jackedbrah · February 2015

Entire team got booted out of PVP a second ago.

NW has some potato servers.

vasdamas · February 2015

jackedbrah wrote: »

Entire team got booted out of PVP a second ago.

NW has some potato servers.

What annoys is somebody was still online to hit that stupid button.

Well, thanks for opening an empty case of care devs.

thefabricant · February 2015

Agreed, I will not blame my isp either, in fact, I must have a better isp then most as I don't seem to suffer from those random mass disconnects so many people suffer from. And they ARE mass disconnects, not isolated cases. I got over 100 people on my friends list and ~20 people are online at a time, when the mass disconnects occur, approximately 15 of those 20 will suddenly disconnect. If 3/4 of my friends list randomly disconnects "coincidently" all at the same time, then how many other people are disconnecting at that moment as well. Whilst I tend to get server not responding at that moment, I don't get disconnected. No, it is not my connection's fault, it is somewhere on Cryptic's side.

eldarth · February 2015

thefabricant wrote: »

No, it is not my connection's fault, it is somewhere on Cryptic's side.

Prove it. Where's your traceroute evidence? Do you know how many OTHER servers are BETWEEN you and Cryptic??

Are you even aware that SOME of them may be THROTTLING game/video network speeds??

Pro-Tips On Diagnosing Lag And Rubberbanding

Unless you can show traceroute evidence your just speculating without any networking knowledge.

lewstelamon01 · February 2015

eldarth wrote: »

Prove it. Where's your traceroute evidence? Do you know how many OTHER servers are BETWEEN you and Cryptic??

Are you even aware that SOME of them may be THROTTLING game/video network speeds??

Pro-Tips On Diagnosing Lag And Rubberbanding

Unless you can show traceroute evidence your just speculating without any networking knowledge.

I'll also point out that many of those relay points aren't owned or otherwise under the control of your ISP OR Cryptic's. Usually, those fall under the aegis of companies whose task it is to transport data between the networks of different ISPs, called peering providers.

karlorsacorn · February 2015

eldarth wrote: »

Prove it. Where's your traceroute evidence? Do you know how many OTHER servers are BETWEEN you and Cryptic??

Are you even aware that SOME of them may be THROTTLING game/video network speeds??

Pro-Tips On Diagnosing Lag And Rubberbanding

Unless you can show traceroute evidence your just speculating without any networking knowledge.

208.95.185.41 is from United States (US) in region North America
Input: patchserver.crypticstudios.com
canonical name: patchserver.crypticstudios.com
Registered Domain: crypticstudios.com

TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 208.95.185.41 [patchserver.crypticstudios.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 0 0 0 64.124.196.225 xe-4-2-0.er2.dfw2.us.above.net
2 1 1 1 64.125.20.233 ae7.cr2.dfw2.us.zip.zayo.com
3 9 9 9 64.125.21.62 ae2.cr2.iah1.us.zip.zayo.com
4 46 46 47 64.125.21.53 ae14.cr2.dca2.us.zip.zayo.com
5 46 44 44 64.125.20.29 ae0.mpr4.bos2.us.zip.zayo.com
6 41 41 41 64.125.25.41 ae2.mpr3.bos2.us.zip.zayo.com
7 42 42 42 208.184.110.70 208.184.110.70.ipyx-072053-002-zyo.above.net
8 45 44 44 63.251.128.41 border11.te7-1-bbnet1.bsn.pnap.net
9 49 53 53 216.52.61.78 perfectworldent-4.border11.bsn.pnap.net
10 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
11 46 46 45 208.95.185.41 patchserver2.crypticstudios.com
Trace complete

I support the OP.

eldarth · February 2015

karlorsacorn wrote: »

TraceRoute from Network-Tools.com to 208.95.185.41 [patchserver.crypticstudios.com]
Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
...
9 49 53 53 216.52.61.78 perfectworldent-4.border11.bsn.pnap.net
10 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
11 46 46 45 208.95.185.41 patchserver2.crypticstudios.com
Trace complete

I support the OP.

Um, looks like patchserver2.crypticstudios.com has a decent hop time to me - 46/46/45.
Traceroute looks like your biggest problem is the server between perfectworldent-4.border11.bsn.pnap.net and cryptic.

So you just proved it wasn't cryptic -- although it appears to be somewhere in PWE's domains.

lewstelamon01 · February 2015

Also run a pathping. It runs for about 7.5 minutes and will give you a better picture of which relays along the route may be dropping large amounts of packets and are problematic. Traceroutes are helpful but are more of a general at-the-moment snapshot of the behavior of a given route, and a pathping may reveal a different area which may be at issue.

And for the love of (insert deity) try running the pathping from your OWN PC as opposed to relying on a third-party website to do it for you. Instructions are listed in the lag and rubberbanding sticky but I'll list them here.

1. Click your start icon.
2. Click "Run".
3. In the box provided, type "cmd".
4. At the prompt provided, type "pathping patchserver.crypticstudios.com" (obviously, without the quotes)
5. The test will run for ~450 seconds. After this time, it will display its results. What you're going to want to look at is the percent of packets lost. This will be displayed for each node along the route. A few percentage points is acceptable, anything in double digits is problematic.

Also, in the future, refrain from sarcastic commentary when asked to provide diagnostics. Speculation and conjecture is not helpful when dealing with latency matters--hard numbers are needed to be able to be of any help. Also be aware that even when posting those numbers, a solution is rarely, if ever, readily available--the purpose of the diagnostic tests is to determine a possible cause based on evidence rather than speculation.

packrat0 · February 2015

Part of the problem in diagnosing this is that the timeouts are completely unpredictable, and too short-lived to pop up a command prompt as soon as it starts and run a tracert to get meaningful data.
By the time the tracert gets to the 4th or 5th hop in the chain, everything is back to normal and you'll be able to reconnect.

zebular · February 2015

Good news is that people should begin to not be so confused in the near future (hopefully) on how the internet works due to seeing less issues not related to the game server and not related to their own ISP for new Net Neutrality regulations have been passed by the FCC!

Link
Another link

Now it is just a matter of time till we start seeing improvements on some of these companies that the majority of the US (and other countries coming into the US) have been seeing issues with, despite erroneously blaming the game server or assuming everyone's telling them it's "their" ISP.

Huzzah!

lewstelamon01 · February 2015

packrat0 wrote: »

Part of the problem in diagnosing this is that the timeouts are completely unpredictable, and too short-lived to pop up a command prompt as soon as it starts and run a tracert to get meaningful data.
By the time the tracert gets to the 4th or 5th hop in the chain, everything is back to normal and you'll be able to reconnect.

That's why I suggested running a pathping test as well. It runs for a longer period of time and is better suited for getting a long-term picture of your route to the server.

packrat0 · February 2015

lewstelamon01 wrote: »

That's why I suggested running a pathping test as well. It runs for a longer period of time and is better suited for getting a long-term picture of your route to the server.

Ah true. But of course that requires consistently tabbing out of the game every 7 minutes to restart it in the off chance you will catch it, so that's not too much of an improvement.

karlorsacorn · February 2015

What I proved is nothing really, but especially that the problem isn't with any single ISP. So, its NOT end users faults. :cool:

eldarth wrote: »

Um, looks like patchserver2.crypticstudios.com has a decent hop time to me - 46/46/45.
Traceroute looks like your biggest problem is the server between perfectworldent-4.border11.bsn.pnap.net and cryptic.

So you just proved it wasn't cryptic -- although it appears to be somewhere in PWE's domains.

lewstelamon01 · February 2015

karlorsacorn wrote: »

What I proved is nothing really, but especially that the problem isn't with any single ISP. So, its NOT end users faults. :cool:

And, as been said numerous times, no one's blaming the end user. That's merely the assumption people make because it's said that the problem is not inherently with the server. It's not a "one or the other" problem--the problem is rarely at either end of the connection but rather somewhere in the middle.

micky1p00 · February 2015

lewstelamon01 wrote: »

And, as been said numerous times, no one's blaming the end user. That's merely the assumption people make because it's said that the problem is not inherently with the server. It's not a "one or the other" problem--the problem is rarely at either end of the connection but rather somewhere in the middle.

Off course without knowing the exact network topology and access to it, all diagnostics are guesses but, and there is a but:

Recently two types of disconnects occur, one is the "Server not responding" which leads after a count down into a disconnect, and the instant kick, that will require re-logging in.
In most cases during the "SNR" the chat functions as it should, and the chat server is: crypticspace.com [208.95.184.142]
The address recommended to test against for lag in the other threads is: patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.185.41]
(can look for the game connections later)

Both fall under cryptics ip block and located at the same palace (https://ipinfo.io/AS46461).
This shows that most likely the connection 'in the middle' was not interrupted.

The second type, the immediate kick, appears more like a game error, and restart and not a network issue. The game doesn't detect any connection problem, but even if so, most/all data is transported by UDP so there shouldn't be a timeout enforced by the protocol and even if there is (some tcp connection), the game should set the connection tolerances, number of retries and timeouts and shouldn't just kick into the login screen.

Bottom line, there are things that can be done by the devs to analyze, mitigate and/or solve this, and it should be done ASAP. This annoyance from this problem is at the pitchforks level, so either it should be solved or if a solution can't be found please communicate where the problem (with the analysis) is so we will target the pitch forks at the right direction.

blackjackwidow · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

Good news is that people should begin to not be so confused in the near future (hopefully) on how the internet works due to seeing less issues not related to the game server and not related to their own ISP for new Net Neutrality regulations have been passed by the FCC!

Link
Another link

Now it is just a matter of time till we start seeing improvements on some of these companies that the majority of the US (and other countries coming into the US) have been seeing issues with, despite erroneously blaming the game server or assuming everyone's telling them it's "their" ISP.

Huzzah!

I was soooo happy to see this today! Net Neutrality for all! Of course, 'soon' is a relative term - as the major offenders will launch their counter-fights with vigor, I am sure.

Still - nice to finally see a step in the right direction.

vordayn · February 2015

I've been getting a lot of disconnects lately too. I'm not sure why. The worst was when we were Tier IV in Tiamat and going to win, then just wiped because of disconnects. The rage on /zone chat was palpable ... Perhaps it's a matter of server capacity? I do not seem to get this with other MMOs.

It doesn't seem to be an end-user thing at all, as it happened to quite a number of people simultaneously.

samothrace22 · February 2015

Yeah my issues have heightened recently, right now can't log onto the game! And interesting the positive feedback of the net neutrality thing here, I've only heard bad things about it.

vordayn · February 2015

Yes, that's why I'm posting here - I can't log into the game :P

samothrace22 · February 2015

Oh sweet I am always comforted when I'm not the only one

Unknown · February 2015

This content has been removed.

zebular · February 2015

We have been having winter storms raging for the past month across the north and east. I believe the datacenter is in the East while the game servers are in California. However, I am in Michigan and haven't had any lag at all for the past month. Just abrupt the D/C's that a lot have also been getting.

slintash · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

We have been having winter storms raging for the past month across the north and east. I believe the datacenter is in the East while the game servers are in California.

That's great and all, but it doesn't explain why a number of us all got kicked and can't even load the launcher while other people are still playing just fine. I should know, me and about 8 others all got kicked at the same time and atleast 10 others are still playing just fine.

Unknown · February 2015

This content has been removed.

zebular · February 2015

amvek wrote: »

So you are saying we should live with it rather than them investigating the cause?

Goodness, I didn't say anything of the sort. You're reading too much into what I said. I did also add more to my post while you were typing that response.

Unknown · February 2015

This content has been removed.

vordayn · February 2015

And you can't exactly say it's because it's F2P (and say you get what you pay for) when a number of us are paying customers!

(ed. no-one did actually say that, but I'm not sure if this server instability would be acceptable on sub-based MMOs. I mean our money has to go somewhere).

zebular · February 2015

amvek wrote: »

All I want is them to find out why and if it is not their end put the pressure on where the issue is and on the company responsible for fixing it! Seems every server disconnect topic ends up getting deleted.

Actually, we move them here where they belong, in Bug Reports, or we merge them with one of the stickies or another thread posted around the same time. Few actually get closed or removed.

Here's the most recent ones:
Sticky: Pro-Tips on Diagnosing Lag and Rubberbanding
Sticky: Disconnecting? Look Here!
Sticky: [Feedback] Lag and Rubberbanding
East Coast Lag?
too many frequent disconnects
Tiamat Server crash
lag in sharandar
Game is completely unplayable due to disconnects
here we have again rubberbanding strike!
Unable to Connect
Tiamat lag
Tiamat Extreme Lag Record: Temptation SW End Feat Soul Bond
Mass server disconnects
Extreme lag

lewstelamon01 · February 2015

amvek wrote: »

Too many people are getting Server not Responding. Out of 20 people in my guild 3/4 of them are getting this issue. Players from Canada, USA, Europe, Asia and Australia! Please stop making excuses for them. This is something that needs to be looked into!

As of right now not only is the server not responding issue going on the lag in game is so bad it is affecting everyone in between the disconnects. This is affecting all my guildmates. Either they are having an issue somewhere along their connection or they are having server issues. According to players in my guild this lag is affecting all 3 cryptic games.

It is also affecting the gateway

Are you running the necessary diagnostics or are you just using conjecture (this happens to so-and-so as well, so it HAS to be the server!!) to blame "the man"?

And yes, Zeb is correct--the area where the datacenter for Cryptic's game shards is in the middle of an area that has experienced extensive winter storms of late. That's just one of a hundred possible causes over which Cryptic has absolutely ZERO control.

We ask for traceroutes and other diagnostic tests not because we want to blame the user (which we're not) but because without those tests, it's simply impossible to determine what's going on with the behavior of your route from your PC to the server. Also, just because it's happening in several places does not mean that there isn't a common point of trouble between the user and the server--internet traffic does not always follow the shortest route from point A to B and a common relay may be at fault.

I sincerely don't think the IT team is sitting on their duffs just eating donuts in the break room, and for what it matters we DO let Akro know when we're experiencing problems in the game. That doesn't mean that it's a problem that's within their sphere of influence to fix--and just because Cryptic is a large corporation does not mean that everything is within their reach to address.

Many of the mods have extensive networking and PC experience. We aren't just trying to "shift blame from the company". We just see the larger picture. We have the collective experience to understand that lag is not an easy or simple monster to tame--if it can be truly tamed at all. Just look at any major MMORPG forum. I'll wager you'll find at least three threads complaining about lag or disconnects.

eldarth · February 2015

http://www.internettrafficreport.com/

I am going to blame my ISP no longer.

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