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Extant PvP Issues from Module 5
macjae
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,415 Arc User
The tl;dr version: PvP currently has a lot of problems on Live; I try to summarize a lot of PvP issues of (somewhat variable) importance that I feel should be addressed, both in overarching terms and in terms of particular classes. Since this isn't testing feedback to changes made, but an attempt at summarizing present issues, I'm making a new thread for that.
Presently, there's a few major concerns tied to PvP as it exists on Live. I realize that we haven't seen the full extent of changes for module 6 yet, so hopefully there are fixes for the major problems coming soon. Some of the new powers that have been added to the classes on Preview look like they've been designed at least partially in such a way that they'll help address particular PvP issues, so that's good.
1. Kicking in PvP
There's currently an exploit that allows the rest of the team to be kicked from PvP matches, which has been frequently abused primarily in order to either avoid taking losses or by angry players "punishing" their pugmates for losing (or other perceived slights). This is particularly bad, as the first two players to get kicked like this take a queue penalty, which leaves them unable to queue again, on top of taking the loss they would have usually taken anyway. I'm hoping this will be fixed soon if it hasn't been already -- it's gone on for far too long, which has a deleterious effect on overall PvP community health. Remove the ability to kick people who are in PvP maps.
2. Matchmaking and the Gear Gap
Queue times are currently a lot longer than they used to, and when you get in, you'll quite often be faced with a match-up that's either very easy or next to impossible. This is a product of a relatively diminished PvP population, but also the tremendous gaps in player capability that has just widened over time, with the difference between BIS and beginner level 60s now being enormously much greater than it was at the start of the game.
Now, the current changes to the stats look like they may alleviate some of this in the short term, if they leave players with smaller % values than they currently receive (which has been the issue most have seen so far, but that's also using current gear), as this would make the difference between BIS and new players smaller than it currently is, especially if the proportion of stats derived from gear becomes higher relative to slotted enchantments than it currently is. On the other hand, with more linear stat scaling, once the stats get high enough, the result will be the opposite -- BIS players will outpace new and middle-geared players by an even larger margin.
I would suggest something along the following lines as a solution, in terms of designing new PvP sets:
This would conserve some differentiation in gear levels, allowing people to advance in relative power, but hopefully make the ultimate gap smaller, making matches more balanced and fun.
3. General Gameplay and Balance Issues
There's a number of unresolved problems pertaining to PvP balancing. I've attempted to summarize my major concerns below, based on the current standards of module 5. Without yet seeing the full extent of module 6 changes, it's hard to see how the differences will be in module 6 PvP, so things may be more different than immediately apparent. Changes like the stat change to Armor Penetration and Defense look greatly disfavorable to heavily armored classes.
An overarching concern in PvP remains that damage levels are very high -- virtually every class has the potential to one-rotation virtually every other class, if the right build and powers are employed. One way this could be redressed without individually altering a lot of powers would be to boost Tenacity: Increasing damage reduction from Tenacity, critical damage reduction (toning down heavy critical-based builds, which are very dominant for many classes) and possibly reinstating the original concept of Armor Penetration mitigation from Tenacity (which would be a particular boon to heavily armored classes, and may be required in light of how Armor Penetration is currently shaping up for module 6).
Similarly, control effects are too prevalent and dominant in PvP, with only a few classes having viable cc breakers. It might be nice to see a new mechanic which gave escalating control resistance as you got controlled, allowing the first couple of cc effects to be fully effective, followed by drastically diminishing returns if too many were applied too quickly. At the same time, the fact that Deflection can mitigate cc durations also drastically favors Deflect-heavy classes against cc effects, and makes the reliability of cc against such classes unpredictable, which has a large knock-on effect on overall class balancing. Remove the ability of Deflection to mitigate cc.
Action Point gain is also on the high side with all the boosts available now; Sigil of the Devoted is by far the most popular artifact for PvP builds, and artifact cloaks with additional Action Point gain are far more popular than the ones that add AC, because being able to use dailies more frequently is an extremely large boost. Consider halving the Action Point gain from the Sigil of the Devoted and artifact cloaks while players are flagged for PvP.
Piercing damage is a concept that's being used to an increasing degree over the last few modules. It obviously causes issues in that it negates the impact of defensive stats, which hurts the classes that rely on strong defensive stats most of all -- GFs and GWFs. Now, there is a place for some piercing damage to balance out damage potential between highly armored and low-armored targets, but not for attacks that rely almost entirely upon being piercing. Effects that inflict piercing damage should either be reduced to some proportion of overall damage (i.e. Shocking Execution could do 75% normal and 25% piercing damage), be based on damage that's already being mitigated (like the current version of the combat HR), or represent a small bonus in proportion to overall damage with damage potential capped by the potential of the power being used (i.e. Shadowy Opportunity could be clamped to inflict no more than 20% of the base damage of the power it procs off of).
Glyphs are another point that should be amended to some degree. Currently, nearly every ranged class relies on using red dragon glyphs for the added damage procs, which greatly enhances the damage of otherwise low-yielding at-will attacks like Ray of Frost. By slotting two of the same kind, the stat boost and added effect of glyphs is also continuously active, which seems unintended (or potentially designed as a trade-off against the larger short-term boost of slotting two different glyphs). Regardless, it would probably help overall balance if the different glyph types were better balanced against each other, so either reducing the damage output of red glyphs or adding an ICD may be desirable.
4. Class-Specific Issues
This section is based around trying to summarize some of the more important balance issues for each class and major bugs impacting on each class. Obviously, I have my biases just as everyone else, but I try to take a holistic approach here; in many cases, nerfs to the particular abilities of some classes will greatly improve the situation for other classes, which makes boosting them in other ways less necessary.
Trickster Rogues: This is currently an extremely imbalanced class. When properly specced, it gets too much in the way of offensive and defensive capability, and can top that with having a lot of control effects that are easy to land and not fun to play against. In terms of gameplay, it presents a number of different challenges: Because of their defensive capabilities, TRs are very good at contesting a node and surviving against multiple opponents. This in turn is very good for taking advantage of less experienced or focused opponents, as they'll either be drawn to the node in an (heroic) attempt to liberate it, or they'll avoid the TR at all costs because they don't want to be ganked by the invisible man. An equally skilled, equally geared TR will win a 1v1 against any other class, so ceteris paribus, more than one player is required to clean out a TR.
At the same time as we'd like TRs to be more in line with other classes, reducing their damage output would probably hurt them a lot in PvE again, which leaves diminishing their defensive capabilities, some of which result from bugs.
Devoted Clerics: DCs were given a lot of new capabilities in module 5, which allows them to effectively perform different roles. However, the overall impact of a DC on a team is possibly a bit much, as the difference between having one and not having one is very substantial; a good DC can greatly boost a team's tankiness while providing either massive healing bursts, or providing a great deal of added damage and cc. The presence or absence of a DC on a team is the second most decisive after that of a good TR.
Control Wizard: Overall, CWs currently enjoy a package of tankiness and damage that's overall a bit too good, especially if the excesses of TRs and DCs are toned down. Virtually every strong CW is now renegade; the added cc from oppressor is not helpful against many classes since it also comes with diminished damage, while thaumaturges do not have the great team utility that renegades do.
Hunter Rangers: Presently, this class is fairly mono-dimensional in PvP -- every good PvP-built HR out there is a trapper now. Melee-built HRs remain an option that's viable, but doesn't deal nearly as much damage, while archery HRs are pretty much dead in the water in PvP.
Great Weapon Fighters: This class has issues with scaling; it is a solidly strong class at BIS levels, but gets progressively worse at lower gear scores due to the way key abilities scale. At the same time, there's really only one viable build at BIS levels. Sentinels can get decent tankiness combined with massive area-based burst damage; the mechanics for the other paths are clunky, and while their damage potential and mobility is high, they can also die quickly, especially if proned. GWFs are also lacking in that a large number of their powers are of relatively little use in PvP; Not so Fast does not adequately slow foes to be of appreciable use, the healing from Restoring Strike is paltry, and so on.
Guardian Fighters: The "defender" class in PvP in reality does not have core mechanics that allow it to directly shield other players except through control. It's capable of surviving for a long time, but not nearly as much as a TR, and if caught in a bad position, dies very quickly, making it less than ideal as a node holder. Overall, GFs are fairly well-balanced and well-rounded, with a few viable variations, but on the weakish side in PvP.
Scourge Warlocks: These are by and large widely considered the weakest class in PvP. They can either spec for massive damage and be vulnerable to cc and damage, or spec for more tankiness and cc resistance, but deliver mediocre damage. The main weakness of SWs is susceptibility to cc and burst damage; their main defensive feature does not allow them to adequately offset big damage bursts like Ice Knife or Intimidation, and they are usually unable to avoid such attacks. On the other hand, their damage potential is high, and they tend to win longer battles thanks to excellent self-heals from Soulbinder stacks.
Presently, there's a few major concerns tied to PvP as it exists on Live. I realize that we haven't seen the full extent of changes for module 6 yet, so hopefully there are fixes for the major problems coming soon. Some of the new powers that have been added to the classes on Preview look like they've been designed at least partially in such a way that they'll help address particular PvP issues, so that's good.
1. Kicking in PvP
There's currently an exploit that allows the rest of the team to be kicked from PvP matches, which has been frequently abused primarily in order to either avoid taking losses or by angry players "punishing" their pugmates for losing (or other perceived slights). This is particularly bad, as the first two players to get kicked like this take a queue penalty, which leaves them unable to queue again, on top of taking the loss they would have usually taken anyway. I'm hoping this will be fixed soon if it hasn't been already -- it's gone on for far too long, which has a deleterious effect on overall PvP community health. Remove the ability to kick people who are in PvP maps.
2. Matchmaking and the Gear Gap
Queue times are currently a lot longer than they used to, and when you get in, you'll quite often be faced with a match-up that's either very easy or next to impossible. This is a product of a relatively diminished PvP population, but also the tremendous gaps in player capability that has just widened over time, with the difference between BIS and beginner level 60s now being enormously much greater than it was at the start of the game.
Now, the current changes to the stats look like they may alleviate some of this in the short term, if they leave players with smaller % values than they currently receive (which has been the issue most have seen so far, but that's also using current gear), as this would make the difference between BIS and new players smaller than it currently is, especially if the proportion of stats derived from gear becomes higher relative to slotted enchantments than it currently is. On the other hand, with more linear stat scaling, once the stats get high enough, the result will be the opposite -- BIS players will outpace new and middle-geared players by an even larger margin.
I would suggest something along the following lines as a solution, in terms of designing new PvP sets:
- The PvP armor sets are free; you can pick them up once you hit max level.
- The PvP armor sets receive a substantial stat boost or multiplier while flagged for PvP, making them BIS in PvP, and mediocre outside it.
- Rather than buying new sets of PvP armor, you upgrade them over time. This works by feeding them glory, and could use a UI similar to black ice. This could work by either allowing individual stats to be purchased upwards, or buying new tiers (by piece). The 2-piece and 4-piece bonuses upgrade once you've invested a total number of glory points in the set.
- Similarly, for PvP weapons and offhands, you could use glory to unlock set bonuses and special abilities similar to the artifact offhands.
- Before entering PvP at level 70, players should get a quest to pick up their set (to prevent oblivious players from entering in greens anyway).
This would conserve some differentiation in gear levels, allowing people to advance in relative power, but hopefully make the ultimate gap smaller, making matches more balanced and fun.
3. General Gameplay and Balance Issues
There's a number of unresolved problems pertaining to PvP balancing. I've attempted to summarize my major concerns below, based on the current standards of module 5. Without yet seeing the full extent of module 6 changes, it's hard to see how the differences will be in module 6 PvP, so things may be more different than immediately apparent. Changes like the stat change to Armor Penetration and Defense look greatly disfavorable to heavily armored classes.
An overarching concern in PvP remains that damage levels are very high -- virtually every class has the potential to one-rotation virtually every other class, if the right build and powers are employed. One way this could be redressed without individually altering a lot of powers would be to boost Tenacity: Increasing damage reduction from Tenacity, critical damage reduction (toning down heavy critical-based builds, which are very dominant for many classes) and possibly reinstating the original concept of Armor Penetration mitigation from Tenacity (which would be a particular boon to heavily armored classes, and may be required in light of how Armor Penetration is currently shaping up for module 6).
Similarly, control effects are too prevalent and dominant in PvP, with only a few classes having viable cc breakers. It might be nice to see a new mechanic which gave escalating control resistance as you got controlled, allowing the first couple of cc effects to be fully effective, followed by drastically diminishing returns if too many were applied too quickly. At the same time, the fact that Deflection can mitigate cc durations also drastically favors Deflect-heavy classes against cc effects, and makes the reliability of cc against such classes unpredictable, which has a large knock-on effect on overall class balancing. Remove the ability of Deflection to mitigate cc.
Action Point gain is also on the high side with all the boosts available now; Sigil of the Devoted is by far the most popular artifact for PvP builds, and artifact cloaks with additional Action Point gain are far more popular than the ones that add AC, because being able to use dailies more frequently is an extremely large boost. Consider halving the Action Point gain from the Sigil of the Devoted and artifact cloaks while players are flagged for PvP.
Piercing damage is a concept that's being used to an increasing degree over the last few modules. It obviously causes issues in that it negates the impact of defensive stats, which hurts the classes that rely on strong defensive stats most of all -- GFs and GWFs. Now, there is a place for some piercing damage to balance out damage potential between highly armored and low-armored targets, but not for attacks that rely almost entirely upon being piercing. Effects that inflict piercing damage should either be reduced to some proportion of overall damage (i.e. Shocking Execution could do 75% normal and 25% piercing damage), be based on damage that's already being mitigated (like the current version of the combat HR), or represent a small bonus in proportion to overall damage with damage potential capped by the potential of the power being used (i.e. Shadowy Opportunity could be clamped to inflict no more than 20% of the base damage of the power it procs off of).
Glyphs are another point that should be amended to some degree. Currently, nearly every ranged class relies on using red dragon glyphs for the added damage procs, which greatly enhances the damage of otherwise low-yielding at-will attacks like Ray of Frost. By slotting two of the same kind, the stat boost and added effect of glyphs is also continuously active, which seems unintended (or potentially designed as a trade-off against the larger short-term boost of slotting two different glyphs). Regardless, it would probably help overall balance if the different glyph types were better balanced against each other, so either reducing the damage output of red glyphs or adding an ICD may be desirable.
4. Class-Specific Issues
This section is based around trying to summarize some of the more important balance issues for each class and major bugs impacting on each class. Obviously, I have my biases just as everyone else, but I try to take a holistic approach here; in many cases, nerfs to the particular abilities of some classes will greatly improve the situation for other classes, which makes boosting them in other ways less necessary.
Trickster Rogues: This is currently an extremely imbalanced class. When properly specced, it gets too much in the way of offensive and defensive capability, and can top that with having a lot of control effects that are easy to land and not fun to play against. In terms of gameplay, it presents a number of different challenges: Because of their defensive capabilities, TRs are very good at contesting a node and surviving against multiple opponents. This in turn is very good for taking advantage of less experienced or focused opponents, as they'll either be drawn to the node in an (heroic) attempt to liberate it, or they'll avoid the TR at all costs because they don't want to be ganked by the invisible man. An equally skilled, equally geared TR will win a 1v1 against any other class, so ceteris paribus, more than one player is required to clean out a TR.
At the same time as we'd like TRs to be more in line with other classes, reducing their damage output would probably hurt them a lot in PvE again, which leaves diminishing their defensive capabilities, some of which result from bugs.
- The Knife's Edge feat interacts with Bloodbath in such a way that all of a TR's encounter power cooldowns are completely reset, which gives them a likely unintended level of access to their encounter powers.
- The Shadow of Demise feat procs multiple times using DoT enchantments, allowing this to put out inordinate amounts of damage.
- The Shadowy Opportunity feat procs off of any attack, which means Saboteurs can put out a lot of damage simply by spamming Cloud of Steel; if Shadowy Opportunity would only proc off of encounter powers, or do greatly reduced damage when proccing off of at-wills, this would help a great deal.
- The overall ability of TRs to daze their targets is too great; a TR can keep a target dazed for a very long time while putting out a lot of damage, and still maintain exceptional defensive capabilities when the daze wears off. This can be solved either by reducing the dazing duration of certain TR powers, or by giving players immunity windows similar to the windows against CW freezes.
- Shocking Execution is another particularly troublesome daily, as it completely negates the defensive capabilities of some classes -- GWFs and SWs in particular. Change it to respect all forms of damage mitigation in PvP, but give it bonus damage against injured targets.
- Between stealth, numerous long dodges (four to start with), relatively high movement speed, high Deflection and improved deflection severity and access to the Impossible to Catch power for MI TRs, TRs have too much overall defensive ability in PvP. The added stealth reveal was, as anticipated, insufficient in terms of its impact on this aspect -- TRs can dodge through it or keep you dazed for the duration of it. Reducing the impact of smaller damage procs on stealth duration also reduced one way of countering stealth. Increasing the length of the stealth reveal and increasing the cooldown on ITC would both help with making counter-play against TRs more feasible.
- The 100% critcal hit chance while in stealth is also problematic, but changing this around to any significant degree would obviously have too much of a deleterious effect on PvE TRs. It could probably be changed to allowing a proc window with an ICD without disturbing PvE too much, while reducing the ability of PvP TRs to output high consistent damage from stealth (in particular, Saboteurs using Gloaming Cut).
Devoted Clerics: DCs were given a lot of new capabilities in module 5, which allows them to effectively perform different roles. However, the overall impact of a DC on a team is possibly a bit much, as the difference between having one and not having one is very substantial; a good DC can greatly boost a team's tankiness while providing either massive healing bursts, or providing a great deal of added damage and cc. The presence or absence of a DC on a team is the second most decisive after that of a good TR.
- Sun Burst cuts through cc immunities. This is particularly devastating against GFs, GWFs and SWs, as it interrupts their immunity frames from blocking, sprinting or shadow slipping. It can push away GWFs in Unstoppable, greatly reducing their ability to take advantage of it.
- The overall ability of DCs to mitigate and heal damage is probably a little on the strong side. DCs are very hard to kill, which is good considering that unless DPS-specced, they don't have a lot of damage, but the effect on a team as a whole is also usually in excess of the damage an opposing team can bring to offset a DC's healing. In virtually every case, a (non-troll) team combination involving a DC will edge out one that doesn't. It gets particularly hard when one team lacks powers to knock an opponent out of an Astral Shield, which only CWs, DCs and GFs get encounter powers for.
- Similarly, DCs can overall perform very strongly in a number of ways if appropriately specced; they can put down a fairly long stun chain with Break the Spirit, DPS DCs can inflict devastating amounts of damage. None of the individual aspects are too strong on their own compared to what other classes have, but the whole is probably too much. The rate of Divinity gain may be the underlying issue.
Control Wizard: Overall, CWs currently enjoy a package of tankiness and damage that's overall a bit too good, especially if the excesses of TRs and DCs are toned down. Virtually every strong CW is now renegade; the added cc from oppressor is not helpful against many classes since it also comes with diminished damage, while thaumaturges do not have the great team utility that renegades do.
- Storm Spell currently provides CWs with far too much damage in some configurations, making Ray of Frost into a virtual ray of death in some cases. There seems to be a bug involving the off-hand feature, or possibly some renegade path powers, that allows it to double proc, on top of the massive critical chance a CW can enjoy. This source of damage needs to be drastically toned down.
- CWs get a huge boost in tankiness from running Shield on spell mastery, which makes them some of the tankiest characters around. At the same time, without running Shield, a CW will die extremely quickly. This makes Shield virtually the only acceptable power to run on spell mastery, which makes for little variety. The damage reduction from Shield should be toned down while giving CWs more options for survivability from other sources, such as longer teleports, more teleports, or higher base control resistance from Wisdom. Ideally, CWs should also be given more of a reason to use the Shield pulse in an active manner (in order to make it work better with the PvP set bonus); adding a small stun might be ideal for this.
- Renegade build CWs are currently far better than the other CW builds largely because the capstone feat provides very powerful team boosts, and also grants access to very strong healing bursts. The effects of this capstone should be toned down, particularly the healing (which is not something that should be a major feature of CWs).
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche remains pretty much a dead power in PvP. Running this on spell mastery required skillful execution (unlike most other CW abilities, which are auto-aim), and it should be improved enough to be viable again. Besides a damage boost, reducing the casting time and improving the responsiveness and speed of the Shard should help make it a decent control effect.
Hunter Rangers: Presently, this class is fairly mono-dimensional in PvP -- every good PvP-built HR out there is a trapper now. Melee-built HRs remain an option that's viable, but doesn't deal nearly as much damage, while archery HRs are pretty much dead in the water in PvP.
- Careful Attack can proc multiple times when used with enchantments like plaguefire, outputting much more damage than likely intended. This should be fixed.
- Root effects are problematic for several reasons: They can't be dodged, which makes landing them a non-issue against dodge-based classes. With Trapper feats, the roots last for a long time and can tick for extremely high amounts of damage. With the listed module 6 addition of roots also applying daze effects, this is set to become much worse as HRs will be able to root/daze opponents and also make them take massive damage from an effect that can't be dodged. Roots should ideally be dodgeable, and tick for less damage against players than they currently do (not so much of a reduction that HRs fail at being highly damaging strikers, but the current version leaves too little room for countering).
- The Forest Ghost daily presents another layer of issues with HR power interactions; HRs can enter stealth and then daze and root targets without the targets being able to retaliate or counter. The cooldown isn't very important as long as it roughly matches the time a target takes to die, respawn and move back into position to receive more. Forest Ghost should at least be subject to the same stealth reveal rules as TR stealth, and other changes like a reduced movement speed while using Forest Ghost may be appropriate. However, if accompanied by a reduction to root damage, the Forest Ghost animation should also be shortened so HRs can use it as a better reactive defensive measure or getaway tool.
- HR dodge frames remain too short and unreliable, particularly in the conditions of variable latency many players experience. They should receive a small boost in duration.
Great Weapon Fighters: This class has issues with scaling; it is a solidly strong class at BIS levels, but gets progressively worse at lower gear scores due to the way key abilities scale. At the same time, there's really only one viable build at BIS levels. Sentinels can get decent tankiness combined with massive area-based burst damage; the mechanics for the other paths are clunky, and while their damage potential and mobility is high, they can also die quickly, especially if proned. GWFs are also lacking in that a large number of their powers are of relatively little use in PvP; Not so Fast does not adequately slow foes to be of appreciable use, the healing from Restoring Strike is paltry, and so on.
- When GWFs apply marks from multiple sources such as Threatening Rush and Daring Shout, the effect stacks, which provides too big of a damage boost; this is probably unintentional, and should be changed.
- The mechanics for Destroyer GWFs should change, as they're currently quite bad. Either allow stacks to build up outside of Unstoppable, make their damage scale by hit points lost, or give them a large direct damage boost while in Unstoppable without needing to build stacks.
- GWFs overall need a bit more up-front survivability; Destroyers and Instigators in particular die very quickly. Consider something like reducing the amount of determination gained from taking damage, but giving a small, steady stream of determination gain to compensate. This would allow GWFs to use Unstoppable earlier in a fight, at the expense of somewhat less ability to string chains of it together. This would allow GWFs to resist burst damage better, but they'd be more susceptible to middling sustained damage.
Guardian Fighters: The "defender" class in PvP in reality does not have core mechanics that allow it to directly shield other players except through control. It's capable of surviving for a long time, but not nearly as much as a TR, and if caught in a bad position, dies very quickly, making it less than ideal as a node holder. Overall, GFs are fairly well-balanced and well-rounded, with a few viable variations, but on the weakish side in PvP.
- As GWFs, GFs are capable of applying a double mark effect, which provides a greater damage boost than is probably intended.
- Terrifying Impact prones players through cc immunities.
- GFs have issues related to blocking. Visually, it can be hard to tell which attacks are within the block arc and which are not. If the GF could get an outline similar to the combat advantage circle that indicates whether an opponent is being blocked or not, that would help with positioning.
- A daze effect applied against a blocking GF also causes an interrupt-type cooldown on their encounter powers for 1 second; this should be fixed, as it makes counterplay against TRs especially hard in some cases. Also, Shadow of Demise will inflict full damage even if the initial attack is blocked.
- A few GF powers could use a boost to allow GFs to better fulfill their role. Villain's Menace should have a shorter casting, allow cc immunity while being cast and function as a cc breaker. Likewise, Fighter's Recovery should also have a cc breaking effect. This would give GFs access to some additional defense against cc at an appropriate cost and allow them to function better as tanks and node defenders.
Scourge Warlocks: These are by and large widely considered the weakest class in PvP. They can either spec for massive damage and be vulnerable to cc and damage, or spec for more tankiness and cc resistance, but deliver mediocre damage. The main weakness of SWs is susceptibility to cc and burst damage; their main defensive feature does not allow them to adequately offset big damage bursts like Ice Knife or Intimidation, and they are usually unable to avoid such attacks. On the other hand, their damage potential is high, and they tend to win longer battles thanks to excellent self-heals from Soulbinder stacks.
- SWs need a slightly better ability to survive big burst damage; this could be from added resistance to critical hits (similar to the Tenacity critical reduction), or some other mechanic that allows them to periodically mitigate very large hits. The SW shadow slip mechanic is based on GWF sprint mechanics, but SWs have no equivalent to Unstoppable (nor should they) so they need something else to help with the same issues.
- SW survivability is designed around life steal, but this is subject to healing depression in PvP (and will be less reliable with upcoming life steal changes). SW life steal should not be subject to healing depression in PvP.
- Some key issues with several SW powers should be resolved: The casting time of many tends to be too long, some involve complex interactions with warlock's curses (Wraith's Shadow is a particularly complex beast), and sometimes the casting animation is desynchronized from the actual activation. Blades of Vanquished Armies loses a great deal of its utility because its effect gets interrupted by being cc-ed (it should also ideally be castable while moving, similar to Infernal Spheres).
- Out of all PvP armor set bonuses, SWs also have the worst one; it does not interact with their tab or shift mechanics in any way and the damage bonus is far too circumstantial compared to the more straightforward bonuses offered by other sets. If anything, SWs should get an additional defensive bonus from their PvP set, like +10% deflection chance while shadow slipping.
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Comments
CW are a bit more complexe than what you say.
Shield should be changed to make it a lot more situationnal. On mastery, it should only give a better push. Not an increase to DR. For survivanility, CW have control so they should have better bonus and resist to control. But they should be the 2p bonus of the pvp set.
Oppressor should be the pvp tree but it rely too much on Freeze and it don't provide enough damage. The change look good but can be a lot better. (my detailled feedback can be found in the cw topic).
Now i dont want to remember what you write about " in Melee classes handicapped in pvp vs ranged?" GF vs CW problem.
You assume HR's will be Trappers come Mod 6.
Not even half as powerful as TRs of any current spec. I'd say, they can compete with CWs - both have CC, but most of it either short or long root effect which leaves you ability to attack, both have moderate to high defense (deflection/semi-stealth vs shield on tab+chaotic growth), both have to be built right and trapper also has one of the highest skillcaps in PvP, probably the hardest class/tree to play.
However, that new passive, that makes grasping roots daze, should be removed. It's absolutely unnecessary to give them more CC.
All the testing I did shows that CA does not multi-proc with enchantments any more than it does with any other source of damage. CA is intended to proc whenever the target takes damage (within duration and subject to ICD) and that's all that happens with DOT enchantments. You can get the exact same effect with any other DOT placed on the target.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Ummm... 'some sort of bug that allows it to double proc' actually.. it is the OH.. and its an unlockable feat.. that allows it to double proc...................... *shrugs*
I am Specced for Fury DPS, but I stack HP as high as I can, Leveld up my Defenders Banner for regen + Inc Heal bonus and this made me quite survivable but still able to bring the pain (Murderous Flames is lovely) as I am more interested in Killing than i am dieing lol
With In Combat Regen disappearing, making my Defenders Banner 100% USELESS to me as a solo kill hunter, im worried that I will be forced into a Pure DPS Glass Cannon that will just get kicked from PvP matches because im not a CW/CC machine, sicne as you put it, CW's able to meet that level of Defense and survivability plus an *** load of CC and DPS. I mean, Really, does Ice Knife really need to prone you too? lol
Tnx for taking the time to write this and I hope some Devs print this and use IT as a roadmap to make some basic improvements to pvp in the future.
Well done.
Best
My question still stands, I'm not bashing your post it's a legitimate question. Why would Forrest ghost have the same rules as TR stealth when Forrest ghost is a daily that doesn't last more than a few seconds? The roots are defensive/escape tools 99% of hunter skills are... what escape do you suggest that hr doesn't currently have?
also note i said i disagree with "most of your points".
I personally don't agree with the Forrest ghost point and the root duration.
I'll consider your post useless flame.
This is a great idea and with the new "average item level" system I HOPE they can implement a "Highest Average Item level - achieved" system which can THEN replace the ELO matchmaking. What this would do is keep track of the highest average item level your character has achieved, and then match you based on THAT number. So even if you took off your gear it makes no difference since it sets a "high water mark" if you will.
I love the PVP gear idea. Instead of the black ice system, it could easily be the "RP" system but with Glory and seals.
Once you hit max level, you get a quest to get some basic PVP gear. As you earn Glory you feed those items with glory, to upgrade any piece it costs X seals and even some wards for the % chance.
This makes a great way for PVP gear progression. You cannot just skip to the BIS pvp gear, you must level the PVP gear. HOWEVER dont copy the insane costs. I would just look at the glory cost per piece and make that the upgrade. With the Seals being the required materials. Thus it would not cost anymore to get to BIS except you are now forced to spend glory on each upgrade along the way. OR you can just go right for blackice gear which is a hybrid PVP/PVE set.
I like this idea ALOT!!!!
I also like the idea of making PVP weapons similar in function to artifact pieces. With set bonuses and even "features". I would also but the same types of things on the PVP GEAR. Start with T1 Neck/Rings etc and spend glory to upgrade those.
The Neck Pieces should have +AC and AP/Sec bonuses that upgrade over time.
Various Belts should have say +1-3 Con or Dex or w.e as well.
You can literally copy the artifact item bonuses but make them just a TAD less in "power/effectiveness" Meaning instead of +8 AC you would get +6 AC. Or instead of +4 Con on a Belt, it has +3 Con. Its COMPARABLE but not QUITE as good.
Trapper HR pretty have the decided advantage against WK scoundrels. If the WK strikes first they have a chance but it is still well in favor of the trapper. If the trapper strikes first the WK has no chance at all. The only escape the WK has does not work against the trapper root (actually it doesn't work against a lot of things).
support added.
And yes, it's not mystery that TRs are OP, but rogues always been pretty baws in every game I played in terms of pvp.. but in this game it's a little bit over the edge because said rogues can screw up tanks in a couple attacks, in which most other games tank counter rogues the best, because rogues hunt down squishy targets ...
Anyways, from my point of view? CW is the most powerful class in the game right now, DC has the most influence on a team winning or not(TR/CW second place)
I've had little/no problem clearing out any TR of equal gear in a 1v1 on my CW before. You may be in stealth bu the node never lies, and it tells you when opponents are on it, or not...
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Now I would go and say make destroyers purpose give us increased crit change and severity. but People would scream OP. (Imagine a destroyer with 70% crit and 200% severity.. Facemelting 101...)
I would say Give us extra damage as piercing on every hit in unstoppable. but I'd rather they just removed piercing damage.
(although If it has to stay. buff deep gash to 4/8/12/16/20% power damage over 2 seconds that procs on Crit, and change its damage to piercing, (can only have 1 deep gash at a time, so at most you deal 20% piercing every 2 seconds)
Your suggestion of the capstone stacking outside of unstoppable (and perhaps giving us a further benefit IN unstoppable) would be a well needed boost for the paragon. Hopefully they look at this thread, and hopefully they also look at some of the many survivability boosting suggestions that are out there.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
you are correct on this one. ICD for CA is 1.5 seconds without exceptions. it is actually bigger timeout then most other dots like DC sunburst. And damage has to be dealt for it to proc. This power is fine as it is.
TO author
New feet. It has its own disadvantage. You can get more control - that is true. But it is 1/2 time daze on player on real testing. price for it is that you need to have crit build HR and give away Lone Wolf as deflect chance or serpent. Even thought this feat can make some builds really valuable we still need to see how it will all work. Plus don't forget that daze from this power and HR roots seems to take no advantage from Control strength. It may be still a bug though. For now I would not judge this class feature yet as OP.
As far as I share your concerts about pvp. Right now game faces too big changes to items/curves/LS/regen/tenancy to be good enough solid on mod 6 pvp state. It maybe a case where that 0.5 sec daze is the only way for HR to stay alive in some cases.
I won't comment on any other class. Each has its own OP stuff except maybe SW. Mostly it is too much control in majority of cases. Id just advice instead of blaming all and any class wait till mob 6 is actually out.
I will agree with first post that HR are again a mono build with 0 variation. And id like to see some positive changes for other feat paths.
All other suggestions about game mechanics are great. Good job summing them up.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
We were good until this part.
This is a blanket nerf that's going to hit WK the hardest. Considering MI is a lot more melee-oriented than WK, the stealth reveal was already pretty ridiculous considering the TR is visible within attack range anyway.
WK's greatest defense comes from range and stealth. MI's greatest defense comes from range, stealth, and MI. That's typically why it's a lot easier to stack defensively on a MI and still apply great damage.
Otherwise, great post with great ideas.
I'd hope a dev looked at this but I know they won't do anything with it anyway.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.