I find it funny how we get blamed when stuff goes wrong. Someone dies, it's clerics fault. Someone with a slow computer and bad internet connection is lagging and suddenly I am supposed to stop using my favorite at-will astral seal...
Quite often I see dps classes complaining about bad healing or low dps and so on... But they don't seem to realize that when used properly my encounters alone give them 45% damage buff, not to mention another 3 or so defense debuffs and 2 offense debuffs put on the enemy.
It's just continuing the grand tradition of pretty much every MMO I've ever played.
When an under-armoured and/or under-skilled tank dies, he blames the cleric/healer.
When a dps wizard is too slow to move to move away from an attack and dies, she blames the cleric.
When a party just plain gets it wrong and wipes, they blame the cleric.
Frustrated players need s scapegoat and it's always easiest to blame the "support" or non-frontline player(s).
Don't take it to heart too much and use whatever skills you want. Most of the claims about those skills are based on misinformation about bugs that have been fixed for a while now.
As all content (except Tiamat) in this game is solvable for a four player party if can never be your fault, the other must suck on their own if they cannot complete a dungeon.
It's just easier to blame someone a bit weaker like the DC or GF.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
The AS problem isn't anymore - it's already been addressed by the Devs several patches ago.
My personal rule: I'll play the way I like and as long as it doesn;t affect me then I'll go on with it. If it affect you then you should submit a support ticket. Also learn to ignore the ignorant. People will rant about you as a DC because they actually think they are a better player with a better set-up. There just isn't anything you can do about dimwits being dimwits.
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited January 2015
You died? Oh, that's too bad. Maybe next time you will actually get some HP and lifesteal, and actually move to avoid damage.
The only heals you will get from my DC are from Divine Glow and Repurpose Soul.
I had some GWF player call me a "nub" after we wiped on Fulminorax -- and he had not once attacked Valindra, in fact she flew down and killed me while he was off fighting the dragon. I didn't even know what to say, so I just put him on /ignore.
I think it's due to people coming from other games where the healer can carry the world. Neverwinter is not like that, and I'm glad -- I want to be overpowered, just not that overpowered.
Re: Tiamat lag, heal-spec DCs have a number of feats that auto proc on nearby players. These feats really ought to have target caps, but they don't. Anyway I just specced out of Cleansing Fire, I'll do Tiamat again and see if it's any less laggy.
Be that as it may, there is a reason tiamat stops functioning when a lot of clerics are about. The performance patch fixed a lot of these and other issues, but it's not entirely gone in my experience.
I agree with you on the ignorance part. But I try to look at it a little less selfish. If my skills make it harder to do the run, I look for an alternative. In that regard it's no different from not using Ice Storm in a dungeon because it bothers my team more than the skill helps killing. It doesn't have to be the players fault. No cleric can help producing that bug if he's unlucky with his boon selection. But regardless of it being a bug or lack of usefulness, a good player should look for the best way to assist his team through the run. And if you can avoid a bug or annoying your teammates by scattering mobs, you only make things easier for yourself.
There's still an issue with Cleric's contributing to some of the lag, but it's not all AS as it was. In short the Tiamat thing is a generally sloppy construct all the way a round. Hell, even the Devs don't know what all the issues are or they'd have it fixed (or on the mend) by now. :
As for the "selfish" aspect - that's a fair statement. But when berated constantly for no reason other than playing a particular class (no matter your playing skill) then one becomes jaded pretty quickly. My "screw-u I'll play the way I want" is mostly directed at the dimwitted crowd. I don;t complain about other classes affecting my play, I deal with it because I know wa all had to learn at some point: example: people being kicked from Blacklake Skirmish because they lit barrels on-fire. Really? It's childish to kick people for things like that. My point is: work with me or work against me, if you choose the latter then you;re on your own so deal with it.
Now with that said: most people didn't know about the bug and using Astral Seal *IS* attempting to help the party. So people are being scolded over something they don;t have a clue about. And now they are being scolded for the wrong reasons, to-boot. Eventually you'll just start to ignore those flames when you're on the receiving end of them for too long.
I think it's due to people coming from other games where the healer can carry the world. Neverwinter is not like that, and I'm glad -- I want to be overpowered, just not that overpowered.
I agree. DC in this game have been on the short end of the stick and being chastised since before open beta. That won;t change any time soon. It is statistically the least-played class until recently (I think GF has taken that spot now after the mod 5 update to DCs DPS)
I think you need to draw a distinction between an organised party in a dungeon or mission and pugging it, be that a dungeon, HE or Tiamat.
In the former I think the party have every right to expect team mates to co-operate and play for the team, even if it means not using your favourite skill, because that's what you are: a team.
In the latter as a pug, I don't think you can have any say in what another player does or does not do. In fact in Tiamat, where much of the DC bashing continues to happen, you really should not be taking time out from the fight to type anything in chat, least of all abuse. Anyone typing is not fighting and is either dying or standing at the camp fire.
Healers need thick skins in any game. If I was a DC and someone was yelling at me like they do at some DCs I'd probably double my efforts to do whatever it is I am not supposed to do and make sure the yeller knows it. If you give in to that sort of bullying it will only encourage more.
So I say to all DCs, keep your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up and do whatever you want. None of it is real....
I think you need to draw a distinction between an organised party in a dungeon or mission and pugging it, be that a dungeon, HE or Tiamat.
In the former I think the party have every right to expect team mates to co-operate and play for the team, even if it means not using your favourite skill, because that's what you are: a team.
In the latter as a pug, I don't think you can have any say in what another player does or does not do. In fact in Tiamat, where much of the DC bashing continues to happen, you really should not be taking time out from the fight to type anything in chat, least of all abuse. Anyone typing is not fighting and is either dying or standing at the camp fire.
Healers need thick skins in any game. If I was a DC and someone was yelling at me like they do at some DCs I'd probably double my efforts to do whatever it is I am not supposed to do and make sure the yeller knows it. If you give in to that sort of bullying it will only encourage more.
So I say to all DCs, keep your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up and do whatever you want. None of it is real....
It is actually pretty hard to make me angry in-game or IRL. And I usually do whatever I want and don't care about complainers. I just thought I would make a thread to see what other people think.
I think you need to draw a distinction between an organised party in a dungeon or mission and pugging it, be that a dungeon, HE or Tiamat.
In the former I think the party have every right to expect team mates to co-operate and play for the team, even if it means not using your favourite skill, because that's what you are: a team.
In the latter as a pug, I don't think you can have any say in what another player does or does not do. In fact in Tiamat, where much of the DC bashing continues to happen, you really should not be taking time out from the fight to type anything in chat, least of all abuse. Anyone typing is not fighting and is either dying or standing at the camp fire.
Healers need thick skins in any game. If I was a DC and someone was yelling at me like they do at some DCs I'd probably double my efforts to do whatever it is I am not supposed to do and make sure the yeller knows it. If you give in to that sort of bullying it will only encourage more.
So I say to all DCs, keep your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up and do whatever you want. None of it is real....
I absolutely concur with this 1000% (I know: silly exaggeration, but yeah). As an organized team everyone know what everyone else is doing and expects, hence the definition of teamwork. PUGging on the other-hand: well if we all were stuck in the dungeon for a week straight and had voice communication it would go better eventually because: learning each other.
Thick-skin: absolutely. I just visually ignore rude people myself (I think I've only actually hit the "ignore" key on two people in two years). The flip-side of the coin and type of 'complaint' I am generally referring to when I say "you have personal issue, I'll play the way I want" will be the rude ones.
Asking someone to not do something with a brief "it makes lag" is different from "Stupid DC STOP ******* USING AS!!!!". To which the latter gets the "talk to my butt" reply. LOL Let's just say it's a 'situational' response.
The AS problem isn't anymore - it's already been addressed by the Devs several patches ago.
My personal rule: I'll play the way I like and as long as it doesn;t affect me then I'll go on with it. If it affect you then you should submit a support ticket. Also learn to ignore the ignorant. People will rant about you as a DC because they actually think they are a better player with a better set-up. There just isn't anything you can do about dimwits being dimwits.
Only one thing to add...open to the possibility of actually finding equanimity, maybe even connecting to your natural inner joy when ppl attempt to impose low tone vibes through rants and complaints etc (not to say you intentionally cause that once you can harvest it that is)
How? Ever watch the "news" from an eagles view? If you have youll see that just about every news piece is negative, bordering on abuse...One way is to use that "negative programing" to record a laugh track typically used for TV production and play it while watching the "news"... You quickly find that you can maintain at minimum your natural sunny and healthy aura in the midst of all that and downstram you will notice that this will actually trigger glee. Not glee at the expense of anothers upset, but the glee that simply already existed within. Even if the negativity incoming is something you are to help and act on, this glee will grant you far more power to act than if you do so from the same anguish that is effecting the other.
The AS problem isn't anymore - it's already been addressed by the Devs several patches ago.
You are joking right?
Because What they did has nothing to do with "fixing" problem - just avoiding it in some cases. What devs did was to auto-lower your graphic settings when frame-rate drops. This is useful and any other game made in last 10 years had it already, but ok, now neverwinter also has it.
Anyway - try to turn your back on a tiamat head while Hallowed ground is active, astral seal is active, and someone is still attacking it. You get instant 1 FPS untill other people stop attacking it or AS expires.
It's sad that this kind of "I do what I want" mentality is so pervasive in this game. You have 20 people telling a DC not to use a power that screws up the experience but this player doesn't care, they get mass heal points from it, want to be on top of the scoreboard and to hell with you if you don't like the lag it causes. Sure you should be able to use any power you want, but shortcomings of the game mean you need to pick something else, it's a team sport, be a team player.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
You are joking right?
Because What they did has nothing to do with "fixing" problem - just avoiding it in some cases. What devs did was to auto-lower your graphic settings when frame-rate drops. This is useful and any other game made in last 10 years had it already, but ok, now neverwinter also has it.
Anyway - try to turn your back on a tiamat head while Hallowed ground is active, astral seal is active, and someone is still attacking it. You get instant 1 FPS untill other people stop attacking it or AS expires.
The AS "bug" was patched a while ago. The issues now are being caused by all classes and mobs, not just DCs. Furthermore, it is not just AS anyway. While Hallowed may be a small factor in certain situations, my main Cleric, and many others, casts AS and HG together with no detriments to myself or others.
If one is going to blame DCs, then please one should also blame HRs, TRs, GWFs, GFs, SWs, CWs, Tiamat, and the Mobs too. But don't do so here. Instead, /bug report with your ACT data or whatever evidence one has.
Closing this as we don't allow the degradation of any player, whether or not their class is working properly. If one has something to report on these issues, file a Support/GM Ticket or an ingame /bug report. The forums are not the place for the player hatemongering these threads and reports on the forum are bringing.
Comments
When an under-armoured and/or under-skilled tank dies, he blames the cleric/healer.
When a dps wizard is too slow to move to move away from an attack and dies, she blames the cleric.
When a party just plain gets it wrong and wipes, they blame the cleric.
Frustrated players need s scapegoat and it's always easiest to blame the "support" or non-frontline player(s).
Don't take it to heart too much and use whatever skills you want. Most of the claims about those skills are based on misinformation about bugs that have been fixed for a while now.
It's just easier to blame someone a bit weaker like the DC or GF.
My personal rule: I'll play the way I like and as long as it doesn;t affect me then I'll go on with it. If it affect you then you should submit a support ticket. Also learn to ignore the ignorant. People will rant about you as a DC because they actually think they are a better player with a better set-up. There just isn't anything you can do about dimwits being dimwits.
The only heals you will get from my DC are from Divine Glow and Repurpose Soul.
I think it's due to people coming from other games where the healer can carry the world. Neverwinter is not like that, and I'm glad -- I want to be overpowered, just not that overpowered.
Re: Tiamat lag, heal-spec DCs have a number of feats that auto proc on nearby players. These feats really ought to have target caps, but they don't. Anyway I just specced out of Cleansing Fire, I'll do Tiamat again and see if it's any less laggy.
There's still an issue with Cleric's contributing to some of the lag, but it's not all AS as it was. In short the Tiamat thing is a generally sloppy construct all the way a round. Hell, even the Devs don't know what all the issues are or they'd have it fixed (or on the mend) by now. :
As for the "selfish" aspect - that's a fair statement. But when berated constantly for no reason other than playing a particular class (no matter your playing skill) then one becomes jaded pretty quickly. My "screw-u I'll play the way I want" is mostly directed at the dimwitted crowd. I don;t complain about other classes affecting my play, I deal with it because I know wa all had to learn at some point: example: people being kicked from Blacklake Skirmish because they lit barrels on-fire. Really? It's childish to kick people for things like that. My point is: work with me or work against me, if you choose the latter then you;re on your own so deal with it.
Now with that said: most people didn't know about the bug and using Astral Seal *IS* attempting to help the party. So people are being scolded over something they don;t have a clue about. And now they are being scolded for the wrong reasons, to-boot. Eventually you'll just start to ignore those flames when you're on the receiving end of them for too long.
I agree. DC in this game have been on the short end of the stick and being chastised since before open beta. That won;t change any time soon. It is statistically the least-played class until recently (I think GF has taken that spot now after the mod 5 update to DCs DPS)
In the former I think the party have every right to expect team mates to co-operate and play for the team, even if it means not using your favourite skill, because that's what you are: a team.
In the latter as a pug, I don't think you can have any say in what another player does or does not do. In fact in Tiamat, where much of the DC bashing continues to happen, you really should not be taking time out from the fight to type anything in chat, least of all abuse. Anyone typing is not fighting and is either dying or standing at the camp fire.
Healers need thick skins in any game. If I was a DC and someone was yelling at me like they do at some DCs I'd probably double my efforts to do whatever it is I am not supposed to do and make sure the yeller knows it. If you give in to that sort of bullying it will only encourage more.
So I say to all DCs, keep your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up and do whatever you want. None of it is real....
I absolutely concur with this 1000% (I know: silly exaggeration, but yeah). As an organized team everyone know what everyone else is doing and expects, hence the definition of teamwork. PUGging on the other-hand: well if we all were stuck in the dungeon for a week straight and had voice communication it would go better eventually because: learning each other.
Thick-skin: absolutely. I just visually ignore rude people myself (I think I've only actually hit the "ignore" key on two people in two years). The flip-side of the coin and type of 'complaint' I am generally referring to when I say "you have personal issue, I'll play the way I want" will be the rude ones.
Asking someone to not do something with a brief "it makes lag" is different from "Stupid DC STOP ******* USING AS!!!!". To which the latter gets the "talk to my butt" reply. LOL Let's just say it's a 'situational' response.
Only one thing to add...open to the possibility of actually finding equanimity, maybe even connecting to your natural inner joy when ppl attempt to impose low tone vibes through rants and complaints etc (not to say you intentionally cause that once you can harvest it that is)
How? Ever watch the "news" from an eagles view? If you have youll see that just about every news piece is negative, bordering on abuse...One way is to use that "negative programing" to record a laugh track typically used for TV production and play it while watching the "news"... You quickly find that you can maintain at minimum your natural sunny and healthy aura in the midst of all that and downstram you will notice that this will actually trigger glee. Not glee at the expense of anothers upset, but the glee that simply already existed within. Even if the negativity incoming is something you are to help and act on, this glee will grant you far more power to act than if you do so from the same anguish that is effecting the other.
You are joking right?
Because What they did has nothing to do with "fixing" problem - just avoiding it in some cases. What devs did was to auto-lower your graphic settings when frame-rate drops. This is useful and any other game made in last 10 years had it already, but ok, now neverwinter also has it.
Anyway - try to turn your back on a tiamat head while Hallowed ground is active, astral seal is active, and someone is still attacking it. You get instant 1 FPS untill other people stop attacking it or AS expires.
If one is going to blame DCs, then please one should also blame HRs, TRs, GWFs, GFs, SWs, CWs, Tiamat, and the Mobs too. But don't do so here. Instead, /bug report with your ACT data or whatever evidence one has.
Closing this as we don't allow the degradation of any player, whether or not their class is working properly. If one has something to report on these issues, file a Support/GM Ticket or an ingame /bug report. The forums are not the place for the player hatemongering these threads and reports on the forum are bringing.
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