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It's time to get rid of Gear Score
pointsman
Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
TL;DR: Gear Score is an abused number that often leads to prejudice and bigotry against those who have a low GS number. It should be removed from the game, and players ought to be judged based on their competence, not their Gear Score.
Rationale:
First, it is important to understand what GS measures.
GS is simply the sum total of all of the stat points on your gear (except for HP; the HP number is divided by 4 before being included in the GS number).
So GS measures the stats on a person's gear. But it is a broken measure of even that, because GS also includes contributions that are not related to gear, and does not include all of the stats from gear.
For instance, some racial traits, such as the Human "Versatile Defense" trait, is included in GS, even though a racial trait is not gear.
Stats that come from companions are included in GS, even though companions can only loosely be regarded as "gear".
All classes have feats that boost GS. Every class has "Toughness" which boosts a character's GS by increasing a person's HP, and that boost to a character's HP is included in GS. Some classes have additional feats, such as GWF's Steely Defense, that boost GS by boosting a character's stat in a particular category. Furthermore, some of the characters' boons also are included in the GS calculation, even though boons and feats are independent of a character's gear.
What is NOT included in GS:
Armor and weapon enchantments are not included in GS. So a player that has a Perfect Vorpal and a player that has a Perfect Bronzewood are treated equivalently in terms of GS, even though for pretty much every class, a Perfect Vorpal is the better choice over a Perfect Bronzewood.
Some stats are not included in GS, such as Combat Advantage bonus or Incoming Healing bonus.
Abilities that are derived from a character's stat rolls (INT, CHA, CON, etc.) are not included in GS. So for instance, for a CW, the CW's INT score affects the character's recharge speed increase (RSI). The CW's Recovery stat ALSO affects the character's RSI. However, only the Recovery stat is included in the CW's GS, and NOT the CW's INT score. So a CW with an INT of 25 and Recovery of 3000 has about the same RSI as a CW with an INT of 20 and a Recovery of 4650. But the latter CW will have the higher GS, even though their RSI is the same.
Proper distribution of stats are not included in GS. A CW with Armor Penetration of 0 and Recovery of 6000, for instance, would be absurd. But that CW will have a higher GS than a CW with more balanced and appropriate stats, such as Armor Penetration of 2000 and Recovery of 3000. If you had a choice between having a CW on your team that had a GS of 16k (but with 0 ArPen and 6000 Recovery) and one that had a GS of 15k (but with 2000 ArPen and 3000 Recovery), which would you take? GS tells you that the former CW is the better choice, but that would be incorrect.
The problem is, that GS has become a proxy for a character's worth in a party, even though GS does not measure if the character has a good build, has the right feats, or even has balanced stats.
But because GS has become so pervasive as a tool for evaluating characters, it has led to players making dumb choices just to pad their GS so as to appear more superior than they actually are. For instance:
But the more pervasive problem with GS is that it is used to judge players unfairly. For a large segment of the population, a CW with a GS of 15k is considered prima facie to be a worse CW compared to a CW with a GS of 16k. Even though the 15k CW might have the correct balance of stats, while the 16k CW might have horrible stats and just padded GS. Most groups will likely take the 16k CW over the 15k CW judged solely on the basis of GS. Which is unfair to the 15k CW which did everything right, and just teaches the 15k CW that what he/she ought to do is just pad stats in order to be included in groups.
Some people - perhaps most - use GS as a measure to judge a player's commitment to the game, knowledge of the character's mechanics, or experience with the content. But gear can be purchased from the AH in a matter of minutes, and as noted above, a high GS does not in any way mean that the character has the correct feats, proper distribution of stats, or even knows what the gear is capable of (how to build buff/debuff stacks for instance).
This has become a real problem in raids like Tiamat, when players conclude that the reason for a failed raid is "low GS" by some members of the raid. There are even people who insist that a 15k GS should be a minimum, which is absurd - a DC wearing full High Prophet (T1) gear (the best gear for a debuff DC), all Mod 1/Mod 2 boons, and full Rank 7's will have a GS of around 14k. It is astounding to think that some players would want to exclude this 14k High Prophet DC from the raid in favor of a DC that has worse gear but padded stats, all in the name of having characters with bigger GS numbers "assist" them in victory in the raid.
At the extreme, some players use GS to harshly judge players with a low number, and accuse them of being leeches, parasites, idiots, or worse. This is just outright bigotry, but it is enabled by the "GS culture" that pervades this game, where the presumption is that high GS means better player.
This GS nonsense has got to stop, and the first way it can stop is by eliminating this single number from the game, and force players to evaluate characters based on the particular choices that the players have made in gearing them up. These choices are much more revealing at a player's competence in building and managing a character, than one single number, GS, which is a measure of gear alone, and a flawed measure of even that. So instead of evaluating a CW based on whether the GS number is higher, players will then have to evaluate characters based on whether they are wearing the proper gear and have chosen the proper enchantments, artifacts and ability scores.
But if there has to be one single number used by which to judge characters, it should NOT be a number that is based on GEAR! It ought to be based on contributions from the entirety of a character's build and experience, of which gear is just one part. Perhaps there can be a "score" assigned to different feats that are selected, depending on what the player has chosen (a score based on "DPS" can be used based on whether the player has chosen the DPS-boosting feats, as core based on "buffing" can be used based on whether the player has chosen the buff/debuffing feats, etc.)
Rationale:
First, it is important to understand what GS measures.
GS is simply the sum total of all of the stat points on your gear (except for HP; the HP number is divided by 4 before being included in the GS number).
So GS measures the stats on a person's gear. But it is a broken measure of even that, because GS also includes contributions that are not related to gear, and does not include all of the stats from gear.
For instance, some racial traits, such as the Human "Versatile Defense" trait, is included in GS, even though a racial trait is not gear.
Stats that come from companions are included in GS, even though companions can only loosely be regarded as "gear".
All classes have feats that boost GS. Every class has "Toughness" which boosts a character's GS by increasing a person's HP, and that boost to a character's HP is included in GS. Some classes have additional feats, such as GWF's Steely Defense, that boost GS by boosting a character's stat in a particular category. Furthermore, some of the characters' boons also are included in the GS calculation, even though boons and feats are independent of a character's gear.
What is NOT included in GS:
Armor and weapon enchantments are not included in GS. So a player that has a Perfect Vorpal and a player that has a Perfect Bronzewood are treated equivalently in terms of GS, even though for pretty much every class, a Perfect Vorpal is the better choice over a Perfect Bronzewood.
Some stats are not included in GS, such as Combat Advantage bonus or Incoming Healing bonus.
Abilities that are derived from a character's stat rolls (INT, CHA, CON, etc.) are not included in GS. So for instance, for a CW, the CW's INT score affects the character's recharge speed increase (RSI). The CW's Recovery stat ALSO affects the character's RSI. However, only the Recovery stat is included in the CW's GS, and NOT the CW's INT score. So a CW with an INT of 25 and Recovery of 3000 has about the same RSI as a CW with an INT of 20 and a Recovery of 4650. But the latter CW will have the higher GS, even though their RSI is the same.
Proper distribution of stats are not included in GS. A CW with Armor Penetration of 0 and Recovery of 6000, for instance, would be absurd. But that CW will have a higher GS than a CW with more balanced and appropriate stats, such as Armor Penetration of 2000 and Recovery of 3000. If you had a choice between having a CW on your team that had a GS of 16k (but with 0 ArPen and 6000 Recovery) and one that had a GS of 15k (but with 2000 ArPen and 3000 Recovery), which would you take? GS tells you that the former CW is the better choice, but that would be incorrect.
The problem is, that GS has become a proxy for a character's worth in a party, even though GS does not measure if the character has a good build, has the right feats, or even has balanced stats.
But because GS has become so pervasive as a tool for evaluating characters, it has led to players making dumb choices just to pad their GS so as to appear more superior than they actually are. For instance:
- using 2/2 sets when a 4pc set bonus would be more helpful for the party (e.g. High Vizier)
- using a T3 set, with more GS-boosting stats, when a T1 or T2 set would provide a better advantage for the party (e.g. High Prophet or Avatar of War)
- forsaking helpful stats that are not included in GS, such as Combat Advantage bonus, in favor of ones that boost GS but aren't as helpful to the party
- placing a lower priority on abilities derived from stat rolls in favor of granting those same abilities from gear, even though stat rolls are a far better away to achieve that ability than to attempt to do so with gear
- using companions that grant stats, instead of companions that can grant more useful abilities that do not however contribute to GS, such as control bonus or critical severity increase.
But the more pervasive problem with GS is that it is used to judge players unfairly. For a large segment of the population, a CW with a GS of 15k is considered prima facie to be a worse CW compared to a CW with a GS of 16k. Even though the 15k CW might have the correct balance of stats, while the 16k CW might have horrible stats and just padded GS. Most groups will likely take the 16k CW over the 15k CW judged solely on the basis of GS. Which is unfair to the 15k CW which did everything right, and just teaches the 15k CW that what he/she ought to do is just pad stats in order to be included in groups.
Some people - perhaps most - use GS as a measure to judge a player's commitment to the game, knowledge of the character's mechanics, or experience with the content. But gear can be purchased from the AH in a matter of minutes, and as noted above, a high GS does not in any way mean that the character has the correct feats, proper distribution of stats, or even knows what the gear is capable of (how to build buff/debuff stacks for instance).
This has become a real problem in raids like Tiamat, when players conclude that the reason for a failed raid is "low GS" by some members of the raid. There are even people who insist that a 15k GS should be a minimum, which is absurd - a DC wearing full High Prophet (T1) gear (the best gear for a debuff DC), all Mod 1/Mod 2 boons, and full Rank 7's will have a GS of around 14k. It is astounding to think that some players would want to exclude this 14k High Prophet DC from the raid in favor of a DC that has worse gear but padded stats, all in the name of having characters with bigger GS numbers "assist" them in victory in the raid.
At the extreme, some players use GS to harshly judge players with a low number, and accuse them of being leeches, parasites, idiots, or worse. This is just outright bigotry, but it is enabled by the "GS culture" that pervades this game, where the presumption is that high GS means better player.
This GS nonsense has got to stop, and the first way it can stop is by eliminating this single number from the game, and force players to evaluate characters based on the particular choices that the players have made in gearing them up. These choices are much more revealing at a player's competence in building and managing a character, than one single number, GS, which is a measure of gear alone, and a flawed measure of even that. So instead of evaluating a CW based on whether the GS number is higher, players will then have to evaluate characters based on whether they are wearing the proper gear and have chosen the proper enchantments, artifacts and ability scores.
But if there has to be one single number used by which to judge characters, it should NOT be a number that is based on GEAR! It ought to be based on contributions from the entirety of a character's build and experience, of which gear is just one part. Perhaps there can be a "score" assigned to different feats that are selected, depending on what the player has chosen (a score based on "DPS" can be used based on whether the player has chosen the DPS-boosting feats, as core based on "buffing" can be used based on whether the player has chosen the buff/debuffing feats, etc.)
Post edited by pointsman on
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Comments
only people that want it to go are low gs people i worked hard to get where i am 18k gs cw
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
1) People are the problem, not the system. The system could probably do with tweaks though
2) If they removed it, there will still be problems and nothing will be solved.
3) If they replaced the gs system with something else, I have little faith that the new system would actually be better than the one it was meant to supersede. I mean they caused this whole gs disparity in the first place.
My 19k CW would like to see GS eliminated.
But i'd rather they fix it then remove it. Because there are a lot of stats that dont give GS
For example Combat advantage.Combat advantage is a huge damage bonus for some classes like Sent GWF,GF or Tr.Yet it is not included.
A combat advantage of 1000 gs points is worth +8,5% damage bonus.For power this is roughly 1300 extra power.
That just creates the same problem with malappropriation of stats, just widened to include a larger category of stats. Because in that case, +450 Combat Advantage and +450 Movement and +450 Gold Gain would be treated exactly the same.
As it SHOULD be, every gear have it's own score. For example, T1 pieces should give collectively let's say 10000 gear score, T2 15000 gear score and so on and so forth. +2 bonus shouldn't make a difference but +4 bonus should increase the score like 200 points (theoreticly speaking). Runes and enchantments should have their own score, 10 for R1, 20 for R2 etc. (I am making up numbers, these are all examples).
Feat is giving you gearscore?. That's not a problem anymore since GEAR ONLY gives score now. +10% crit sev on your Erynie was rendering you '****' on your 14k toon?. Not anymore!.
Let's scrap this poor idea and make Gearscore count GEAR into account, not stats.
1) Gear score should have an option to be hidden
Okay, some worked hard for their gear score and want to show it off to others. Others simply don't want to be judged on an arbitrary number. So why not the option to turn it off entirely as the player deems fit? Trouble is, many would see an optional absence of gear score as evidence that the player has a bad one. Absence of evidence would equate to an evidence of absence.
2) Make GS viewable only by the player to whom it pertains
So, if no one can see anyone else's gear score but their own, they won't have that number to judge players by? Perhaps, but as the playerbase tends to have a propensity to judge, by some means, the aptitude of the player next to them, they'll just find some other way.
That, I think, is the bottom line: GS is but one way to have an immediate gauge of a player's ability, skewed or padded as it may be. People are impressed by an arbitrarily large number, without regard to how one came about said number. Remove GS and people will just find another way to make that snap, knee-jerk judgement of another player's ability. What next, eliminate colored tiers for gear?
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
The moderators debated that too. However, that feature seems to be omnipresent in all MMORPGs.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
However, GS does not equate necessarily to one's knowledge of what they are doing. You don't need a 20k gear score to know what you are doing in a T2 dungeon. There are clueless people running around in T2 gear as well.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
DPS for, well, duh, DPS classes (CW, TR, HR, etc). This is obvious. Higher numbers are better for DPS.
HPS for DC's (and possibly other healer classes in the future). This is the HP healed per second. Higher numbers are better for heal spec DC's.
Defense spec for GF, GWF, and potentially DC. Higher number is better. This is for tanking.
But here's the thing:
A MoF CW with High Vizier who has experience building HV stacks, selected the proper Thaum feats, and has rank 7 enchantments with Greater Plague Fire and Soulforged enchantments, will have the exact same GS as a MoF CW also with rank 7 enchantments, who selected just random feats, has no idea what he/she is doing, has Perfect Bronzewood and Fireburst enchants (why Fireburst? Because "master of flame" lol) and who bought High Vizier gear but has no idea how to build HV stacks.
GS does not differentiate between these two players.
In fact it's more likely that the latter CW will have a HIGHER GS because that CW will more likely have stat-boosting pets instead of the more useful ability-granting pets - not because they are stupid players, but because those are the first pets that you get in the game.
no we all knoiw that gs is way to low 13-14k is where that should be
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
What i dont agree is when people demand extremly high GS for some content that really isnt that challenging as some T1 and T2 dungeon with people asking for 16k+. When we reach that point is when the GS depart from the real use for it, I would prefer they put a maximum GS=2x"GS required to enter" rather than getting rid of the GS as an indicator.
Being able to inspect someone is a much better indication to know if that player is doing stuff right or not.
verry true gs doesnt tell you everything but it does let you know that player has put some work on that toon
Really? So you are forming a party for an epic run, you're gonna jsut take a bunch of GF's?
I have played glass cannons in several MMO's. The idea is that you have a tank, some DPS, and a healer, not a bunch of glass cannons running around oneshotting a mob then getting killed. >_>
Hence, you'd have a CW with stats like:
DPS: 40k
HPS: 0
Def: 1k
And a GF would have a score like:
DPS:7k
HPS: 0
Def: 40k
Or does this still not make sense? In the above example, both would probably have an idental GS using the current method.