I think there are a lot of issues that sort of fall together here.
There's the easy AP generation from the cloak and the DC artifact on top of regular AP generation, allowing players to chain dailies. The DC artifact has basically always been a great primary artifact, pretty much completely overshadowing a lot of the other options. It generates AP, can in some cases heal for a lot more than Waters does, and has good stats. A change to the DC artifact would probably be good (as it would allow less controlled AP generation resulting in the ability to use it to get back-to-back dailies).
The fact that TRs constantly get 100% crit chance while in stealth means that builds that allow TRs to stay and attack from stealth can output very large amounts of damage. Given their stated goals, they really missed the mark on fixing permastealth. It would seem more in line with what seemed to be the intention that the 100% crit had a limited duration and then a cooldown, giving TRs the ability to guarantee a big hit with their first few attacks coming out of stealth, not a constant stream of critical gloaming cuts, or letting every tick of Bloodbath crit.
Then there's the ability of TRs to deny other classes their defenses before hitting with their big nukes. (Obviously, not every TR has the dazing capabilities of a scoundrel, but Dazing Strike is there for the taking.) As stated by the thread starter, not being able to dodge is terrible, but on the other hand, GWFs can actually break cc and go unstoppable once they've accumulated enough damage, so they're probably not the worst off in this regard, at least compared to dodge-reliant classes when they get denied their ability to dodge at all.
The specific powers of Bloodbath and Shocking Execution obviously become broken once used in specific configurations. Adding some piercing damage, or keeping the target dazed so they can't dodge, on top of always being critical and used with vorpal enchants and possibly other crit severity-boosting effects like food buffs. I think there are aspects of the powers that need tweaking; Shocking Execution should probably be reverted to an execute power with lower base damage and higher damage against injured targets, and should respect Tenacity at the very least. However, the brokenness is also contextual; if TRs lost the ability to crit every strike in stealth, and couldn't use dailies so often (or use a controlled ability to chain double or triple dailies), that would probably make the dailies far less menacing overall.
This is a short list of the amount of synergies at work with daily powers when a certain TR build/path is used, as I've written in another thread:
■ regular AP gain artifact(cloak)
■ max-AP-on-use artifact(Sigil of the Divine)
■ a Daily power that does multiple hits while assuming damage-immunity(Bloodbath)
■ a feat that procs piercing damage with all hits of the above daily(Shadowy Opportunity)
■ a feat that gives freebie stealth with use of the above daily(Invisible Infiltrator)
■ a feat that instantly recharges all encounters with use of above daily(Knife's Edge)
■ a capstone feat that allows the game's easiest perma management up to date(OWtS)
■ being able to perma so easily, attacks often enough from stealth to fill AP quickly(GC)
A massive number of traits that all converge/focus at a single point of synergy. The next most powerful set of synergies coming from a single class without outside buffs, IMO, is with HRs and their resilience/survival, but even HRs have only 3~4 types of powers/feats/self-buffs that contribute to strengthen a single focal point of performance. In the MI/Sab case, it's just nauseating amounts.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
This is the module of the TRs. TRs are going to dominate PVP. Let's just keep on providing feedback so that hopefully, they will be balanced soon enough (module 6)
I main a MI Executioner myself, and I do agree that Shocking Execution has become too strong. The base damage increase in exchange for the "deals more damage as your target loses life" was too strong. As a result I don't really use it anymore, instead I've grown to love Whirlwind of Blades.
But I understand that not every TR has the same conscience about the issue (if I didn't I'd be a WK Sab and trollolololol all day long).
As for BB, I believe it's fine so long as it's not coupled with Shadowy Opportunity. It doesn't hit terribly hard, even with 5.5k power & 2.8k AP, and all classes have tools to deal with it - even SWs and GWFs. Seriously just run/fly away fast enough and it'll stop connecting, it happens to me all the time.
Instead I tend to use mine as an anti-perma weapon/panic button. But then again maybe I'm not very good at PvP for a reason (tend to float around the 100th page mark).
Why is everyone acting like TR is squishy outside of stealth?
They have 250 dodge rolls and ItC. A TR will have about the same or better deflect/DR as my combat HR. And I never go stealth. Nor can I 1 shot anyone, with anything, EVER. Also the only extra movement speed I have is from my dark enchants. I see TRs not even mounting up anymore. Just enter stealth and they can move faster than a rank 3 mount.
Bloodbath, SE or 20k gloaming cuts is just a few things. Stealth as a whole and their insane mobility is a bigger issue IMO.
And they are not more squishy than a ranger outside of stealth. Especially not when you factor in ItC and their silly high movement with near infinite dodge rolls.
Bu bu but HR has 5 dodges. YEAH RIGHT, anyone who says that HR has a lot of dodges has never EVER played HR. I would trade my 5 crappy dodges for TWO of the HR dodge rolls. Nevermind freaking FOUR of them. Jesus asikofnasdkon
EDIT: If i were a troll player, i should say that we, GWF-players, have a dodge: From now on, we must use Mighty Leap on PvP, that should solve the problem with BB, SE, 45k damage LB or 20k crit Gloam/Disheart
Lol, yeah Mighty Leap ftw, new OP encounter for GWF. Well played Sir, well played. In all seriousness don't think we didn't already discuss that as an option. However TR's quickly adapt and will then daze us, just like any class, right before S.E. and same result (not to mention you lose an encounter for control or dps).
Thanks for the comedic commentary, tension breakers are always welcome.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Because this thread is not about that. This thread is about a shot from a daily regardless of skill and that it doesn't really take that much gear at all to pull off.
I was playing a GWF with over 60k HP, had my shield up and took 46k damage after it said "blocked" - In the past I have NEVER not been able to block a shocking, it was actually hilarious to hold up my shield and block it. I have no idea if this was a bug and that my meter was almost gone and it just happened to go through while still saying block....BUT - I sure took 46k hp. And I sure saw the "blocked" animation.
A good TR vs a bad TR is 60% skill, 40% gear. This removes that little bit of skill that TR's needed, the majority of the gear, and now anyone can gear up a TR, put shmeh gear on it, shmeh enchants, and 1 shot Bis players. I love TR's being OP, because I just let them fight each other, or let me kill the none OP people who aren't chasing them lol. But the fact that I was on my GF 1v1'ing a TR got him down pretty low, he is a well known TR from EOA. Tyrion runs up, as I was near death, and says he'll try and hold the node. It was no lie, 5 seconds til he said. "Dead". It was instant. And it was every single time. The fact that I have 8-12k more hp than everyone else is the only reason I could live through it.
#1 - shocking needs nerfed.
#2 - BB damage needs reduced as with 63K HP it killed me 100% of the time when fighting same EOA rogue, and CS rogue. Both arguable top 5 on the server.... but 63k HP everytime? every single time?
- They need toned down, not nerfed back into mod 3, but adjusted.
- To comment on the GF who posted those super high gloomings, he didn't tell us if the TR was buffed by a GF, a mark, if he was debuffed, ETC, nor did he mention his HP, nor is this thread about that so please move on from it.
Tyrion - I wuv you
Nice commentary bro, thanks for adding to the post!
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited December 2014
In all honestly I think Tyrion's comment on GWF being balanced against most other class is pretty accurate and this can be seen in most of the 20-25k fights. Unfortunately the low GS GWF has very limited surviability and are often beaten before rhey can show their full potential. Other than that BIS GWF can put up a good fight against most other classes. +1 again for Tyrion's unbiased comments.
Hey Tyrion! Very good post with valid points.
Small Bow speaking here ;-)
I completly agree here on the topic and would like to add some strategic insight about TRs.
TR has ALOT of strengths.
First you have (perma) stealth. Very useful for backcapping and blocking an enemy node. Perma stealth prevents you from beeing cleared even when two enemies are rotating to you. Even with just beeing able to perma stealth, you bring an invaliable asset to every pvp team.
Second, you have the insane mobility, especially in stealth and because of increased dodge rolls. It helps the TR to rotate very fast + it is a very important factor to survive and play for terrain advantages, especially in hotenow.
Third, TR has now best dmg in the game. I have seen gwfs like papabig, sobek, tyrion, jen and other complete BiS players getting hit for over 15k. While beeing in stealth and remaining there. People say your exposed while using GC but these comments are either intentional missleading or result of inexpirence. You can pretty much instan dodge roll after GCing, also, with some anticipation, hitting any giving target. The frame of vulnerability to catch the TR here is very very short.
Fourth, and very on topic: the dailies of TRs are just ridicolous now. I am getting hit by rayrdans TR Vicious Delicious by back to back BBs for 60k+ dmg, and hes not even maxed.(fun fact: why are TRs present here dont speak up to that insanity of TR dailies?) Every class, no matter of skill or gear is getting wiped out by a single TR.
Every above point isnt gamebreaking by itself. Seing it isolated, I would not have problem with a superior 1vs1 class. Also in isolated perspective, ability to perma stealth and block a node isnt overpowered.
But all the strengths combined makes the current TR the most OP class the game has seen so far. Even the mod2 gwf would be no match for TRs right now.
TR can kill any class 1vs1, TR can maintain a close stall against any 2vs1, against some classes even wipe them out. While he is still perma.
This limits the strategic possibilities to counter an enemy TR close to zero.
A big factor are the dailies.
Blood bath is not only killing everything, it also auto hits, it gives complete immunity and on top of that also reduces all cooldowns + proccing piercing dmg.
You cant blame specific artifacts for that imbalance. A single BB is also complete overpowered, two back to back BBs are just troll stomping at its best.
I have asked many TRs, some considered the best in the game, how to play against such a mess. I only got two possible responses: "just run away and dont fight the TR" or "send ur own TR to enemy TR"
Ofc these responses werent meant very serious.
We need a little more honesty in giving feedback instead of "yay, its my turn beeing OP, eat this!!"
I think the recent changes to Shocking exec is a bug, it hasn't been listed in patchnotes and it not respecting DR is a big change. so I guess the devs will bring it back to what it was before.
Truth!!!!! - I guess the one positive of them focusing on fixing a fight they had months to get ready, and then 2 weeks after mod 5, was that it let me get so sick of pvp on my GF that I am having fun on a bugged Tiamat fight until I get my offhand probably tomorrow. After that... I really have no idea what to do lol.
BUT - Despite the brokenness of the TR it has made some people learn the TR. Which is good, because honestly there are like 5 of them that if in a 1v1 would be a toss up. The rest.... they die. Probably gear related mostly as this games "skill" cap is so low.
DEV's - Listen to this post!!! Learn from your listening, and listen more. The pug 10k GS guy isn't the norm anymore, everyone has huge GS's and you need to take the advice of the people who test at the high end. At the high end is where the little broken things become EXTREMELY obvious. When everyone has maxed out stats, the truly broken abilities are what shine. Yet, most updates/nerfs/ are based on the pug stomper lol. Oh well, but this would be a pretty good place to start
0
urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
edited December 2014
I don't get it
IMO when a group acts like a unit they are hard to beat
I have litterally seen groups lose cause the lose site of the objective and just kill (or Try to) folks
Hey Tyrion! Very good post with valid points.
Small Bow speaking here ;-)
I completly agree here on the topic and would like to add some strategic insight about TRs.
TR has ALOT of strengths.
First you have (perma) stealth. Very useful for backcapping and blocking an enemy node. Perma stealth prevents you from beeing cleared even when two enemies are rotating to you. Even with just beeing able to perma stealth, you bring an invaliable asset to every pvp team.
Second, you have the insane mobility, especially in stealth and because of increased dodge rolls. It helps the TR to rotate very fast + it is a very important factor to survive and play for terrain advantages, especially in hotenow.
Third, TR has now best dmg in the game. I have seen gwfs like papabig, sobek, tyrion, jen and other complete BiS players getting hit for over 15k. While beeing in stealth and remaining there. People say your exposed while using GC but these comments are either intentional missleading or result of inexpirence. You can pretty much instan dodge roll after GCing, also, with some anticipation, hitting any giving target. The frame of vulnerability to catch the TR here is very very short.
Fourth, and very on topic: the dailies of TRs are just ridicolous now. I am getting hit by rayrdans TR Vicious Delicious by back to back BBs for 60k+ dmg, and hes not even maxed.(fun fact: why are TRs present here dont speak up to that insanity of TR dailies?) Every class, no matter of skill or gear is getting wiped out by a single TR.
Every above point isnt gamebreaking by itself. Seing it isolated, I would not have problem with a superior 1vs1 class. Also in isolated perspective, ability to perma stealth and block a node isnt overpowered.
But all the strengths combined makes the current TR the most OP class the game has seen so far. Even the mod2 gwf would be no match for TRs right now.
TR can kill any class 1vs1, TR can maintain a close stall against any 2vs1, against some classes even wipe them out. While he is still perma.
This limits the strategic possibilities to counter an enemy TR close to zero.
A big factor are the dailies.
Blood bath is not only killing everything, it also auto hits, it gives complete immunity and on top of that also reduces all cooldowns + proccing piercing dmg.
You cant blame specific artifacts for that imbalance. A single BB is also complete overpowered, two back to back BBs are just troll stomping at its best.
I have asked many TRs, some considered the best in the game, how to play against such a mess. I only got two possible responses: "just run away and dont fight the TR" or "send ur own TR to enemy TR"
Ofc these responses werent meant very serious.
We need a little more honesty in giving feedback instead of "yay, its my turn beeing OP, eat this!!"
Let's be honest!!
1) SE (crazy/annoying/broken) 41k dmg to full hp targets from lame Trs. 1 shot most ppl.
2) Knife's Edge feat (combined with BB gives 100% cooldown! = 1 more full rotation! Most ppl fail to see how OP this is. Gives except of great dmg, great survivability. Probably the main reason why top TRs can 2v1 top players (check crollax vs gwf/gf or 2cw's).
3) BB (ridiculous dmg)
4)The idea of unmitigated/unresisted dmg in PvP breaks the game to a point that it doesn't make sense anymore! HRs were ridiculous last 2 mods, now is TRs turn??? WE ALL SAY NO!
5)Scoundrel's daze is too much (sometimes enemy won't even manage to use 1 power! and i'm talking about top players)
Saboteur is broken as hell (especially WK and it's even worse on human race)
Scoundrel is OP
Executioner is lame easy play and makes 13k TRs think they are good
Here! Truth told! Wasn't that hard! Come on fellow TRs, stop hiding behind your finger and admit it!
Come on fellow developers and save us from this madness!
but if you add all those dazes+ ITC+ huge deflect with 75% severity and lots of rolls ? You see it doesnt leave much room for vulnerability unless is 2v1
"Scoundrel is OP" Just not true.
ortzhy is on point on the above reply
I don't know if it is ok to post a link but here is some footage from day 1 of mod.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0cJkjnAsx4
just have a look at the first fight to see how a visible 18k scoundrel can give a hard time to an entire party
(second fight is even better)
in addition to that i will tell you that i had a 1v1 with Bunny Rabbit a week ago. He went down in 10 seconds and wasn't able to click a thing! That's OP.
ok....i have enough nerf them hard, gimme back mod 4 tr with some damaging capstone and the new dazing strike and dodge for people to adapt.
really it would be enough
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
1) SE (crazy/annoying/broken) 41k dmg to full hp targets from lame Trs. 1 shot most ppl. but it can be dodged!
2) Knife's Edge feat (combined with BB gives 100% cooldown! = 1 more full rotation! Most ppl fail to see how OP this is. Gives except of great dmg, great survivability. Probably the main reason why top TRs can 2v1 top players (check crollax vs gwf/gf or 2cw's). Could be a bug.. or WAI .. waiting to hear from devs.. 3) BB (ridiculous dmg) Player needs to have a good setup and be vs a single target for this to be true!, Does not ice knife also have super damage? When a player uses BB on you (YOU CAN DODGE) (YOU CAN MOVE TO OTHER PLAYERS) (YOU CAN MOVE TO MONSTERS in open pvp)
4)The idea of unmitigated/unresisted dmg in PvP breaks the game to a point that it doesn't make sense anymore! HRs were ridiculous last 2 mods, now is TRs turn??? WE ALL SAY NO! I like it.. other players have skills that bypass immunity as well. 5)Scoundrel's daze is too much (sometimes enemy won't even manage to use 1 power! and i'm talking about top players) Most of the time this is because people try to run away from the scoundrel... try CC reduction enchantments/companions? Saboteur is broken as hell (especially WK and it's even worse on human race) Scoundrel is OP Explain please.... Executioner is lame easy play and makes 13k TRs think they are good explain please
Here! Truth told! Wasn't that hard! Come on fellow TRs, stop hiding behind your finger and admit it!
Come on fellow developers and save us from this madness!
Atsaliagos
TR are good right now..
I admit I dont like being hit by scoundrels in pvp, but I can always manage to escape / counter them (even on my CW)
When I first played vs a scoundrel I tried to run away when they dazed me... that made me get hit in the back = more daze.
Just stand your ground and fight.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
ok....i have enough nerf them hard, gimme back mod 4 tr with some damaging capstone and the new dazing strike and dodge for people to adapt.
really it would be enough
SE can be dodged but not all classes have dodge. A gwf will have to take that 41k dmg (Sabo's are able to do that so that explains why i say they are broken) Also, dodge or die doesn't make sense.
Scoundrel is OP. just have a look at my last post.
As for the executioner is simple. Stealth -> Lashing Blade(crit+comb adv) + Shadow of Demisse .. a few seconds later :"i should have bought a soulforged!" :P
When fighting scoundrel everyone is either dazed or hitting empty air. The daze is what makes it unfair for other classes. Let's take GWF for example. GWF FLS a TR, he most likely deflects and is out in 0.1s. If not, he's out after 1 second anyways. Now TR dazes the GWF and he's CCd for the whole 5+ seconds whether he deflected or not. See the difference? Daze should have duration reduced by half on players like stun is and affected by deflect severity like stun is. Then we have balance.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
SE can be dodged but not all classes have dodge. A gwf will have to take that 41k dmg (Sabo's are able to do that so that explains why i say they are broken) Also, dodge or die doesn't make sense.
Scoundrel is OP. just have a look at my last post.
As for the executioner is simple. Stealth -> Lashing Blade(crit+comb adv) + Shadow of Demisse .. a few seconds later :"i should have bought a soulforged!" :P
then what about ice knife? 45k CW
what about ray of enfeeblement + icy ray 33k combo? CW
what about intimidation 36k aoe in mod 5? GWF
what about 27k burn you to death? DC
I don't see anyone talking about this...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Skrytochujca has ~8k power, 38k hp and all legendary stuff. What did you expect from op class with such gear?
I have expereienced ~22k hits from some TR's( won't mention names). Im playing CW with 50k hp.
The damage is not a problem(except for shocking execution) but the stuns from TR. As for now TR can stun you for way longer than a "Control" Wizard could.
As for CW's damage i think it's not a problem at all when you compare it to almost the same damage coming from DC or TR. CW can't heal as fast, don't have ITC or stealth so idk what's the problem with that.
Comments
This is a short list of the amount of synergies at work with daily powers when a certain TR build/path is used, as I've written in another thread:
■ regular AP gain artifact(cloak)
■ max-AP-on-use artifact(Sigil of the Divine)
■ a Daily power that does multiple hits while assuming damage-immunity(Bloodbath)
■ a feat that procs piercing damage with all hits of the above daily(Shadowy Opportunity)
■ a feat that gives freebie stealth with use of the above daily(Invisible Infiltrator)
■ a feat that instantly recharges all encounters with use of above daily(Knife's Edge)
■ a capstone feat that allows the game's easiest perma management up to date(OWtS)
■ being able to perma so easily, attacks often enough from stealth to fill AP quickly(GC)
A massive number of traits that all converge/focus at a single point of synergy. The next most powerful set of synergies coming from a single class without outside buffs, IMO, is with HRs and their resilience/survival, but even HRs have only 3~4 types of powers/feats/self-buffs that contribute to strengthen a single focal point of performance. In the MI/Sab case, it's just nauseating amounts.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
+1 to OP
But I understand that not every TR has the same conscience about the issue (if I didn't I'd be a WK Sab and trollolololol all day long).
As for BB, I believe it's fine so long as it's not coupled with Shadowy Opportunity. It doesn't hit terribly hard, even with 5.5k power & 2.8k AP, and all classes have tools to deal with it - even SWs and GWFs. Seriously just run/fly away fast enough and it'll stop connecting, it happens to me all the time.
Instead I tend to use mine as an anti-perma weapon/panic button. But then again maybe I'm not very good at PvP for a reason (tend to float around the 100th page mark).
They have 250 dodge rolls and ItC. A TR will have about the same or better deflect/DR as my combat HR. And I never go stealth. Nor can I 1 shot anyone, with anything, EVER. Also the only extra movement speed I have is from my dark enchants. I see TRs not even mounting up anymore. Just enter stealth and they can move faster than a rank 3 mount.
Bloodbath, SE or 20k gloaming cuts is just a few things. Stealth as a whole and their insane mobility is a bigger issue IMO.
And they are not more squishy than a ranger outside of stealth. Especially not when you factor in ItC and their silly high movement with near infinite dodge rolls.
Bu bu but HR has 5 dodges. YEAH RIGHT, anyone who says that HR has a lot of dodges has never EVER played HR. I would trade my 5 crappy dodges for TWO of the HR dodge rolls. Nevermind freaking FOUR of them. Jesus asikofnasdkon
Lol, yeah Mighty Leap ftw, new OP encounter for GWF. Well played Sir, well played. In all seriousness don't think we didn't already discuss that as an option. However TR's quickly adapt and will then daze us, just like any class, right before S.E. and same result (not to mention you lose an encounter for control or dps).
Thanks for the comedic commentary, tension breakers are always welcome.
Nice commentary bro, thanks for adding to the post!
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Small Bow speaking here ;-)
I completly agree here on the topic and would like to add some strategic insight about TRs.
TR has ALOT of strengths.
First you have (perma) stealth. Very useful for backcapping and blocking an enemy node. Perma stealth prevents you from beeing cleared even when two enemies are rotating to you. Even with just beeing able to perma stealth, you bring an invaliable asset to every pvp team.
Second, you have the insane mobility, especially in stealth and because of increased dodge rolls. It helps the TR to rotate very fast + it is a very important factor to survive and play for terrain advantages, especially in hotenow.
Third, TR has now best dmg in the game. I have seen gwfs like papabig, sobek, tyrion, jen and other complete BiS players getting hit for over 15k. While beeing in stealth and remaining there. People say your exposed while using GC but these comments are either intentional missleading or result of inexpirence. You can pretty much instan dodge roll after GCing, also, with some anticipation, hitting any giving target. The frame of vulnerability to catch the TR here is very very short.
Fourth, and very on topic: the dailies of TRs are just ridicolous now. I am getting hit by rayrdans TR Vicious Delicious by back to back BBs for 60k+ dmg, and hes not even maxed.(fun fact: why are TRs present here dont speak up to that insanity of TR dailies?) Every class, no matter of skill or gear is getting wiped out by a single TR.
Every above point isnt gamebreaking by itself. Seing it isolated, I would not have problem with a superior 1vs1 class. Also in isolated perspective, ability to perma stealth and block a node isnt overpowered.
But all the strengths combined makes the current TR the most OP class the game has seen so far. Even the mod2 gwf would be no match for TRs right now.
TR can kill any class 1vs1, TR can maintain a close stall against any 2vs1, against some classes even wipe them out. While he is still perma.
This limits the strategic possibilities to counter an enemy TR close to zero.
A big factor are the dailies.
Blood bath is not only killing everything, it also auto hits, it gives complete immunity and on top of that also reduces all cooldowns + proccing piercing dmg.
You cant blame specific artifacts for that imbalance. A single BB is also complete overpowered, two back to back BBs are just troll stomping at its best.
I have asked many TRs, some considered the best in the game, how to play against such a mess. I only got two possible responses: "just run away and dont fight the TR" or "send ur own TR to enemy TR"
Ofc these responses werent meant very serious.
We need a little more honesty in giving feedback instead of "yay, its my turn beeing OP, eat this!!"
BUT - Despite the brokenness of the TR it has made some people learn the TR. Which is good, because honestly there are like 5 of them that if in a 1v1 would be a toss up. The rest.... they die. Probably gear related mostly as this games "skill" cap is so low.
DEV's - Listen to this post!!! Learn from your listening, and listen more. The pug 10k GS guy isn't the norm anymore, everyone has huge GS's and you need to take the advice of the people who test at the high end. At the high end is where the little broken things become EXTREMELY obvious. When everyone has maxed out stats, the truly broken abilities are what shine. Yet, most updates/nerfs/ are based on the pug stomper lol. Oh well, but this would be a pretty good place to start
IMO when a group acts like a unit they are hard to beat
I have litterally seen groups lose cause the lose site of the objective and just kill (or Try to) folks
Urlord
nope, should be the other way around.
If you are a TR and can't kill GF....recheck your boon/feats/playstyle.
it goes both ways...
i was shocked when I saw how much a difference our feats can make in pve pvp
Let's be honest!!
1) SE (crazy/annoying/broken) 41k dmg to full hp targets from lame Trs. 1 shot most ppl.
2) Knife's Edge feat (combined with BB gives 100% cooldown! = 1 more full rotation! Most ppl fail to see how OP this is. Gives except of great dmg, great survivability. Probably the main reason why top TRs can 2v1 top players (check crollax vs gwf/gf or 2cw's).
3) BB (ridiculous dmg)
4)The idea of unmitigated/unresisted dmg in PvP breaks the game to a point that it doesn't make sense anymore! HRs were ridiculous last 2 mods, now is TRs turn??? WE ALL SAY NO!
5)Scoundrel's daze is too much (sometimes enemy won't even manage to use 1 power! and i'm talking about top players)
Saboteur is broken as hell (especially WK and it's even worse on human race)
Scoundrel is OP
Executioner is lame easy play and makes 13k TRs think they are good
Here! Truth told! Wasn't that hard! Come on fellow TRs, stop hiding behind your finger and admit it!
Come on fellow developers and save us from this madness!
Atsaliagos
but if you add all those dazes+ ITC+ huge deflect with 75% severity and lots of rolls ? You see it doesnt leave much room for vulnerability unless is 2v1
ortzhy is on point on the above reply
I don't know if it is ok to post a link but here is some footage from day 1 of mod.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0cJkjnAsx4
just have a look at the first fight to see how a visible 18k scoundrel can give a hard time to an entire party
(second fight is even better)
in addition to that i will tell you that i had a 1v1 with Bunny Rabbit a week ago. He went down in 10 seconds and wasn't able to click a thing! That's OP.
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really it would be enough
TR are good right now..
I admit I dont like being hit by scoundrels in pvp, but I can always manage to escape / counter them (even on my CW)
When I first played vs a scoundrel I tried to run away when they dazed me... that made me get hit in the back = more daze.
Just stand your ground and fight.
+1 on that.
Scoundrel is OP. just have a look at my last post.
As for the executioner is simple. Stealth -> Lashing Blade(crit+comb adv) + Shadow of Demisse .. a few seconds later :"i should have bought a soulforged!" :P
then what about ice knife? 45k CW
what about ray of enfeeblement + icy ray 33k combo? CW
what about intimidation 36k aoe in mod 5? GWF
what about 27k burn you to death? DC
I don't see anyone talking about this...
I have expereienced ~22k hits from some TR's( won't mention names). Im playing CW with 50k hp.
The damage is not a problem(except for shocking execution) but the stuns from TR. As for now TR can stun you for way longer than a "Control" Wizard could.
As for CW's damage i think it's not a problem at all when you compare it to almost the same damage coming from DC or TR. CW can't heal as fast, don't have ITC or stealth so idk what's the problem with that.