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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Militia Barracks

Armor Pen vs. Power Question for GWF (PvP)

nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited September 2014 in The Militia Barracks
Mod4, My stats are, 18-24-20 (19-25-21).

I am a IV > Destroyer
I have a plague fire enchantment in weapon.

Assuming the above to be true, what should my Armor Penetration Rating be be for PvP? It would also be helpful if you could elaborate on your choice. From my understanding, the Armor Penetration at 25 CON should be around 2000, and assuming some day, if I manage to get a CON belt and push the CON to 29 my armor penetration should be around 1600. Am I wrong (please elaborate why) ?
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Post edited by nezraal on

Comments

  • lucifron44lucifron44 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Here, someone posted a chart about CON and ArPen. It is for PvE but maybe you can extrapolate the info you need. Btw, this post has been closed by some mod, so I guess there must be more recent and accurate info on this subject. Couldn't find any though, not even in the wiki, where the ArPen page is even older and more useless. Not sure why the same mod did not also close the wiki page.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?358391-Con-%28GWF%29-and-Dex-%28GF%29-are-now-addative-to-Armor-Penetration
    Russian leaderboard first page. The proof.
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Its hard to answear. Its all about how much RI u wanna achiev.
    Each point of con above 10 will give u 1% RI.
    So if u will have 29con u will have 19% RI
    So if u wanna negate 30% DR u will need another 11% RI from ArP.
    If u wanna count PF enchant in to this equation. Its much harder because PF doesnt afect DR directly.
    DR is calculated from AC+defence. And PF will affect only def of target which u cant know and differs for each class race build combination.
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Imho read this and find your own dream value
    http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/382-kaelac%E2%80%99s-guide-to-damage-tenacity-reisistance-and-debuffs-in-neverwinter/
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    To oversimplify it: If you want to kill PVE PUGs with low def, go for power. If you want to kill PVP chars with high def, go for CON+ 2,4k+ AP and power.

    While power boosts your dmg anytime, AP+CON with 30-40% RI is wasted on PVE toons with 10% def.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Well if he achiev 29 con havin 2.4k arp is waste... Its over 43% RI my gwf currently have 42% DR... Whats the point of using plaguefire then... Mayby good ag Gfs but but having a bit lower arp and stack power that doesnt have diminishing efect like arp...
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nekrolita wrote: »
    Well if he achiev 29 con havin 2.4k arp is waste... Its over 43% RI my gwf currently have 42% DR... Whats the point of using plaguefire then... Mayby good ag Gfs but but having a bit lower arp and stack power that doesnt have diminishing efect like arp...

    If I remember correct, ARP gives RI, plf SAYS, that it reduces def, DOES give a dmg boost. I think there are some old post, where some ppl with much more knowledge than me argued this out in the context of 'best class/ enhant combos for max dmg in PvE'. The consensus was, that everything, exept ARP, that says, that it lowers def is a plain dmg buff (PLF, terror, RoE, etc.)
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Gpf works diferent for pve and pvp...
    PvE - mobs doesnt have defence that can be lowered so they have just DR... So in pve gpf apply 3% dmg boost everybody per stack
    PvP - people have defence stat that is reduced by gpf
    Made example: u are gwf with 30 con 20% RI + arp 10% RI and u attack someone with total 50% DR with 3000 defence (33%DR) and 17% DR from AC
    W/o Gpf your dmg is reduced by 20%
    W Gpf your dmg is reduced by 12%
    3000 def is 33% Dr
    1650 def is 25% Dr
    3k de is lowered to 1650 at max stat gpf

    Conclusion:
    If u have higher RI then oponents DR u have 0 contribution from PF except faster stack of DP and some dot dmg
    Most of DR in pvp comes from defence so overstacking arp is useless with gpf
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    nekrolita wrote: »
    Gpf works diferent for pve and pvp...
    PvE - mobs doesnt have defence that can be lowered so they have just DR... So in pve gpf apply 3% dmg boost everybody per stack
    PvP - people have defence stat that is reduced by gpf
    Made example: u are gwf with 30 con 20% RI + arp 10% RI and u attack someone with total 50% DR with 3000 defence (33%DR) and 17% DR from AC
    W/o Gpf your dmg is reduced by 20%
    W Gpf your dmg is reduced by 12%
    3000 def is 33% Dr
    1650 def is 25% Dr
    3k de is lowered to 1650 at max stat gpf

    Conclusion:
    If u have higher RI then oponents DR u have 0 contribution from PF except faster stack of DP and some dot dmg
    Most of DR in pvp comes from defence so overstacking arp is useless with gpf

    Thanks for your info. If you are right, I will have to drop some ARP and add some power. As my knowledge is based on hearsay, I would like to know, if you tested it or if someone has tested it and can confirm this one way or another.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Look into link ive send before... Its quite research of stats how they work... All credits goes to kaelec and his stat guide... Updated after mod. 4


    So far from my experience it fits... I assume its best theory craft i found
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Thank you for the detailed information, after some heavy number crunching (thanks to your links and feedbacks), in the long run - I think with 29 CON 1800 or so ArP is sufficient for me, with a plague fire enchant. It won't deplete the DR% in GF, however it will do sufficient damage to CW,HR,CW & DC and semi-decent damage to GF (GWF the trend now is IV > Destroyer for PvP). Also not everyone is carrying a full black ice gear, etc and then there are PvE Pugs trying to PvP. So in most cases I don't see the purpose of going crazy with Arp.

    Based on my thinking process, do you think the posted above values - is it wise or do you think I should go stack a little more Arm. Pen?
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  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Its rly up to u I currently runinning with about 1k ArP w/o +4 con belt and keep it for belt... But I primary hunt cws :) so loewr arp higher power is better ag them... My playstyle is about outplay gwf with lover arp cause i know pretty well theire rotations and potential :)
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    If you don't mind me asking - what's your GS, ArP, Power & Crit Rate and your page rank in pvp?
    Obviously you are more experienced than I am by a mile (May 13 Join Date). I am trying to understand the mechanics to perform better.

    Do you think 1800 is too high? I am starting to think I should go down to around 1600 ArP on 29 CON and stack power. Hope you don't mind on the personal questions, I am just trying to improve my game.
    + PvP Sentinel Guide for Mod4, Mod5 Viable
    + CAGI Calcultator
    + Liquid Tear Website
  • nekrolitanekrolita Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    GS is about 16k in PvP gear... didnt pvped much since mod 4 came out. didnt have to much time. I made it to page 50 till I get bored by runing chicken gwf :) About stats... Still wating for artifact sword and belt then ill start tuning stats. I am going for ArP somewhere between 1k 1.5k. I dont care much about crit cause i am not using vorpal ench. I am lazy farmer having r6 runes. I started about year ago, but I had long break came back in M3.

    Rly PvP is much more about personal playstyle and preferences. Right now kinda dont like playing gwf. will roll hunter... much more flexibel gameplay that suits me better...

    People whine about gwfs but they cant realize that gwf is very predictable class that can be easily outplayed and gwf cant do much about it... evry pvp spec encounter is IBS, TD, both so easily dodgeable + third encounter of choice... currently so many runing BF build to keep DR high between rotations and your at will are mele and deal very little dmg... If enemy is smart se u go unstopable and beeing destro, all he need to do is disengage so u have no DP... Right now playing GWF is like 0 vs tons of burst if they do mistake... I am sick of waitng till peaople do mistakes... but its just my opinion... think gwfs are fine but atm they playstal i dislike
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