test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Some PVP balancing discussion.
ltgamesttv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
Mod 4 has presented some interesting changes to the PVP environment. It was an attempt to rebalance the perceived imbalance issue primarily with GWF's and an attempt to bring CW's and GF's back in line with the other classes. What I'd like to discuss here after playing every class in PVP except warlock and DC is some interesting mechanics to note in end game PVP.
HR: There is one primary issue that still exists and makes them OP on a node in any 1v1 situation especially when they own the node. Namely: Thornward, a debuffing, damage over time, node encompassing, trap of doom. Most especially for melee classes. GF's and GWF's will be eaten alive by this encounter every time. It is a ticking dps clock of death once you step on the node and it's only a matter of time till you succumb to its awesome dps/debuffing power. It should be dialed back a bit for the sake of a nice challenging balanced node fight.
CW: Assailant is in the process of being nerfed slightly as we speak. I will have to test to see how much reduction in actual dps it accounts for. Storm spell is the second issue and it still procs like mad. I like the idea of eots being timed so that CW's must wait to burst all their encounters with assured crits but the damaging procs are what make them unbeatable in PVP atm. I would ask that you bring back the shard but with the current state of CC that CW's have along with their high dps, I feel it would be too much. If you were to dial them back some so that they have to work for kills I know most end game CW's loved using the one really skill based (and highly satisfying) encounter that set them apart.
TR: I recognize this will be dealt with in the next mod as announced but they need another role in PVP. The permastealth rogue is an important tool in premades but they have been nerfed and changed so much that they don't even fight on the node anymore, they simply go there and permastealth/itc and survive to keep the node contested. It's really not any fun for those trying to clear the node nor for those playing hide and seek rather than fighting for the win on a node. It's really a bit counter to what the name domination implies.
GWF: Not as bad as I imagined it would be considering the changes on the preview shard. Still hard pressed in any 1v1 scenario. HR's and CW's don't even have to be comparably geared to win a 1v1 as their dots and procs will do the work for them. Since the damage nerf from being proneless will not allow a GWF to take down an HR fast enough while standing in thornward on a node it is a guaranteed loss for him. CW's have so much damage that they make unstoppable irrelevant and so many blinks with severe reaction we can't catch them. This could be fixed by allowing takedown to reclaim it's proper place as the name implies... with a prone like other classes still have as well as giving them back their ability to threatening rush like the GF's. One fix that needs to be applied is that the encounter come and get it should not ignore cc immunity such as itc or shield block or blinks etc.
GF's: Very nicely buffed this mod, their damage output is very good and they are more tanky as desired. GF's now put up an excellent challenge for any melee class. A few issues that persist related to GF's are that the shield bar doesn't show correctly. It doesn't move so you can't tell when you've broken it to use your CC against them. Anvil still causes issues with sf and insta respawns where you can't be ressed and are sent directly back to the campfire. Also CW's icy rays are going straight through the shield and CCing GF's who should be immune to it because of block.
Now if I may make a few suggestions on actual PVP gameplay:
1) Please consider allowing people to Queue by gear score. So that people are bracketed by the gear they have on their personage (including their bags so that they can't exploit stripping down to a lower gearscore then what they would actually be fighting with). This will prevent the frustration that occurs when 7-10k gs pvpers fight against 16-20k gs pvpers and get their butts handed to them for an entire match until they campfire it and decide they hate PVP. This could be easily assigned to brackets i.e. 7-10k gs, 11- 14k gs ,15+ k gs brackets or some such so that PVP is more fun and challenging for all involved.
2) Don't allow teams to Q with more than 2 of the same class. Troll comps are at least 75% of the problem with PVP. It's a guaranteed win, get 3-5 of the most OP class of that mod and go out wrecking peeps. It is only fun for those doing the trolling and quite frustrating for those looking for an actual game of PVP.
3) Only allow complete premades to go against complete premades. So if you queue with 5 players you will wait until the system finds you another 5 man team to fight against. Allow duo Qing or trio Qing but anything more places you into a premade bracket so that you don't end up smashing poor pug groups all over the floor and causing them to lose interest in PVP.
The leaderboard also needs to be addressed but that is an entirely other conversation that I will save for a different post. I appreciate you taking the time to read over these suggestions/feedback and I hope that you will find some of the information here helpful. Thanks.
HR: There is one primary issue that still exists and makes them OP on a node in any 1v1 situation especially when they own the node. Namely: Thornward, a debuffing, damage over time, node encompassing, trap of doom. Most especially for melee classes. GF's and GWF's will be eaten alive by this encounter every time. It is a ticking dps clock of death once you step on the node and it's only a matter of time till you succumb to its awesome dps/debuffing power. It should be dialed back a bit for the sake of a nice challenging balanced node fight.
CW: Assailant is in the process of being nerfed slightly as we speak. I will have to test to see how much reduction in actual dps it accounts for. Storm spell is the second issue and it still procs like mad. I like the idea of eots being timed so that CW's must wait to burst all their encounters with assured crits but the damaging procs are what make them unbeatable in PVP atm. I would ask that you bring back the shard but with the current state of CC that CW's have along with their high dps, I feel it would be too much. If you were to dial them back some so that they have to work for kills I know most end game CW's loved using the one really skill based (and highly satisfying) encounter that set them apart.
TR: I recognize this will be dealt with in the next mod as announced but they need another role in PVP. The permastealth rogue is an important tool in premades but they have been nerfed and changed so much that they don't even fight on the node anymore, they simply go there and permastealth/itc and survive to keep the node contested. It's really not any fun for those trying to clear the node nor for those playing hide and seek rather than fighting for the win on a node. It's really a bit counter to what the name domination implies.
GWF: Not as bad as I imagined it would be considering the changes on the preview shard. Still hard pressed in any 1v1 scenario. HR's and CW's don't even have to be comparably geared to win a 1v1 as their dots and procs will do the work for them. Since the damage nerf from being proneless will not allow a GWF to take down an HR fast enough while standing in thornward on a node it is a guaranteed loss for him. CW's have so much damage that they make unstoppable irrelevant and so many blinks with severe reaction we can't catch them. This could be fixed by allowing takedown to reclaim it's proper place as the name implies... with a prone like other classes still have as well as giving them back their ability to threatening rush like the GF's. One fix that needs to be applied is that the encounter come and get it should not ignore cc immunity such as itc or shield block or blinks etc.
GF's: Very nicely buffed this mod, their damage output is very good and they are more tanky as desired. GF's now put up an excellent challenge for any melee class. A few issues that persist related to GF's are that the shield bar doesn't show correctly. It doesn't move so you can't tell when you've broken it to use your CC against them. Anvil still causes issues with sf and insta respawns where you can't be ressed and are sent directly back to the campfire. Also CW's icy rays are going straight through the shield and CCing GF's who should be immune to it because of block.
Now if I may make a few suggestions on actual PVP gameplay:
1) Please consider allowing people to Queue by gear score. So that people are bracketed by the gear they have on their personage (including their bags so that they can't exploit stripping down to a lower gearscore then what they would actually be fighting with). This will prevent the frustration that occurs when 7-10k gs pvpers fight against 16-20k gs pvpers and get their butts handed to them for an entire match until they campfire it and decide they hate PVP. This could be easily assigned to brackets i.e. 7-10k gs, 11- 14k gs ,15+ k gs brackets or some such so that PVP is more fun and challenging for all involved.
2) Don't allow teams to Q with more than 2 of the same class. Troll comps are at least 75% of the problem with PVP. It's a guaranteed win, get 3-5 of the most OP class of that mod and go out wrecking peeps. It is only fun for those doing the trolling and quite frustrating for those looking for an actual game of PVP.
3) Only allow complete premades to go against complete premades. So if you queue with 5 players you will wait until the system finds you another 5 man team to fight against. Allow duo Qing or trio Qing but anything more places you into a premade bracket so that you don't end up smashing poor pug groups all over the floor and causing them to lose interest in PVP.
The leaderboard also needs to be addressed but that is an entirely other conversation that I will save for a different post. I appreciate you taking the time to read over these suggestions/feedback and I hope that you will find some of the information here helpful. Thanks.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Other than that I loved everything
I'd give that the highest priority. You can only q as a solo player or duo/trio premade. 4 man premades would be forbidden. 5 man premades would be matched against another 5 man premade or (may be) 3+2 man premade.
Being put with 6k GS players vs full premade is not fun.
Assailing Force still hits people for 15% of their max hp unresistable damage which combined with 3 times per second Storm Spell and Glyphs allows them to clear nodes within 2-5 seconds.
Well, the point of the ability is node-contesting. Nobody would stand in it otherwise.
I don't run with a premade and I'm not playing HR right now, but basically my understanding is the node-contesting days of HR are over. The survivability just isn't there.
In any case I have yet to see an HR in a match contest a node well. As soon as one tries I just go over and nuke them with my CW.
better presented analysis than i could at this point in time, my rage is too high
some things i'd like to add (as a player of all classes myself)
hr: deflect / damage mitigation is too high, healing is still too much, and yes, thorn ward, need to be turned into a ST dot, or a smaller area of effect, it's very much a node winning/guarding encounter (unless you're a cw i suppose)...aimed shot damage needs to be nerfed, no damage should be easily spammable with an at will....i get easily 20-25k crits in PVP, it's a very silly class for me, i almost hate playing it it's so cheesy (sorry, had to get that out of my system)
cw: storm spell, needs to be nerfed damage wise, or proc wise, can't have best of both worlds, it's adding SO MUCH damage right now...all i kept hearing from devs and testers going into mod4 was "CWs have been kings in PVE for too long, we're going to change their status so that other classes are more viable, and CWs are better in line".....well, no, they're still very much, very easily, very highly and undoubtedbly PVE kings, no other class even comes close.....so, nothing was accomplished in this regard, except now they're PVP kings as well...this is just fact at this point
gf: the block bar NEEDs to either be removed, or fixed so that it's updated with the progress of the GF's stamina, i keep getting asked "so GFs have unlimited block now?"....they pretty much destroy ppl now
gwf: the nerfs weren't all that bad at all, the only thing that makes them "painful" at the moment, is the way things swung across the board and these aforementioned classes got a bit buffed so that GWFs are now almost at the bottom of the food chain...IBS could use a faster animation
tr: i actually enjoy playing my TR in pvp and pve....not really sure what to add pvp-wise... they can change the tide for the better in a dom match, easily
dc: i've never done pvp in a premade as a dc, just pugs, and i can tell you, after a thousand matches, they are useless as full heal spec....you're better off doing hybrid dps/heal and busting out some debuffs....things either die too fast for you to be full heal, or they survive too easily for you to waste a full heal spec....i win more games and help my team better when i'm using dps dailies, and forgemasters flame + healing word + break the spirit.....but, other than this, they're not at all a requirement to win a match, imo, i honestly don't know how DCs can be helped in pvp without putting them over the top....a lot of people just play them as GF tanks, without being able to put out the same DPS, just there to take hits....idk what they could change, i'm all ears....i'd like to think they're okay for the role they fill, which is support
sw: soul puppet can go diaf
No, it remains the same.
Once you enter the arena everyone's gear is exactly the same.
Done and forced to work as a team.
Problem solved?
Nope. Everyone wants to make PvP all about what happens once you enter the match. PvP, like PvE, begins at character creation, continues with feats and boons selection, includes learning rotations and skill interactions, and culminates with gear acquisition and selection. What you're saying would be the same as saying that once you enter a PvE dungeon, everyone's gear is made the same at the minimum level GS required. What would be the point of doing the dungeon in the first place, then?
Probably the Smartest Thing I Have ever heard spoken about GWF's.
Takedown should still properlly takedown. as the stun is not long enough to kill HR's while the HR's dot's do all the work (literally) While we actually have to work to get all the DPS dished out.
Im fine with Threatening rush as it is, But it would be a nice gap closer for CW's who have basically infinite Blinks. (5 stacks of Rush sounds good, or shorter cooldown on current x3)
Thanks for the post Tolkien.
Don't think I have not thought of the negatives also.
Just saying, with all the ranting about balance (and it's in every game) The best way to stop all *****ing would be my aforementioned statement.
With regards to GWFs, use sprint. CCs don't work when it's being used and, that will allow you to keep up with a porting CW.
As far as chill going through a GF's shield goes, I think that's by design. GFs please quit asking that they remove this. Without it, there really isn't anything a CW could do against a GF. All the GF would have to do is put up their shield and go straight at the CW. There is no way a CW could kill a GF through damage with their shield up and if a GF's block stopped chills it would leave the CWs completely helpless against them. The only way I could see this being fair would be if they also made it so GFs can't move when they have their shield up so they'd have to choose between being pretty much impervious to everything or advancing on their opponent.
I fought a GF earlier today that could give lessons to others on how to kill a CW while making it look easy. They rushed me nonstop so that I couldn't get enough stacks of chill on them to do much good while paying attention to my character's animations. Any time I tried to cast any spell other than Rays of Ice, their shield came up which meant my attack did squat to them. Any time they got close enough, they tried to land stuns, forcing me to port away and stop trying to stack layers of chill on them.
CWs aren't omnipotent gods against GFs. You just have to quit hiding behind your shield and actually go after them. Asking for a GF's shield to block chill is effectively asking that CWs be free kills for GFs as there isn't anything else they can do to one with their shield up.
Forgive me if it came across incorrectly. I'm not complaining about the CC of the CW, Control is after all part of the class name. GWF's do have limitations on sprint but it's primarily the damage of procs that act like dots that kill GWF's while our p.fire gives CW's more blinks than GWF's can keep up with using sprint that I feel needs to be balanced. I agree with what Steamroller said that even a few more threatening rush charges would at least help balance the scenario. But primarily it's a damage issue based on procs of assailant and stormspell that give CW's easy wins when 1v1.
Again I'm sorry if this reads differently but what I meant to state was specifically Icy Rays hits through the shield. It ignores the shield and immediately freezes the GF. I don't think this was intended. Ray of frost building stacks of chill over time on an overly defensive tank is not what I meant to deal with, I think that's a legitimate means of control. However using shield is the equivalent of blinking for a CW or shifting for an HR, it's a CC dodge to some degree and Icy Ray is ignoring it. That is what I take issue with.
Thanks for replying.
Node contesting for HR's certainly takes a bit more effort than it used to but depending on the circumstance (and in end game PVP premades especially) thornward still wins the node for them. As far as nuking an HR as a CW I agree that is most certainly easily done. However if you are bleeding points in a particularly close game (as many true premades are) then you can't afford to completely stand off of a bleeding node and kill the HR via freecasting. As soon as anyone steps on the node it becomes a dance of death with the HR merely needing to dodge and hit an encounter or two to take the win. My only suggestion is that they dial the damage/debuff down a little so that it is really a contest and not a guaranteed win 1v1. I realize that thornward is necessary in these situations but it is a bit too strong and needs to be a tool to win the node, not the node winning tool.
Thanks for replying.
No, that's my bad. I've come across a lot of GFs that complain about chill going through block and wanting it altered so that doesn't happen and that's where my mind jumped to when I read your post. The issue with Icy Ray is that it's a two part spell that you have to use twice. If the first part tags you, the second part is an auto hit. That's not a problem that's unique to GFs. It happens when you try to dodge as well. If you're saying that the first part of it where you mark someone is ignoring block then I agree that it needs to be fixed so that GFs can block being marked by the first part of the spell. Otherwise, it's WAI.
Primarily the problem is that CW's have too many blinks in general for a GWF to keep up with, severe reaction is mostly to blame, p.fire which is the meta for gwf's atm, worsens the issue. However, P.fire is necessary for destroyer GWF's to build their stacks of damage dealing feats fast enough for them to come into play during PVP. Sentinel's can go with a crit/vorpal build but destroyer can't take advantage of their feats properly without stacking P.fire. However, they can fix much of the problem by turning down the dps of the CW and simply giving us a little more gap closer. GF's were allowed to keep their gap closer and their prone. GWF's should be able to as well for balance sake. That's the primary issue I was trying to address. If they wanted to address P.fire proccing severe reaction that would be fine as well. The only thing that comes to mind is that you have to be careful about nerfing any class, especially a cw at both ends, defensively and offensively.
I would love to see the que split up by GS/ELO but there are simply not enough players queing for PvP for this to be done effectively.
Pug PvP sucks, and I think its always going to unless this game miraculously gets popular again. I don't see that happening as it appears that with each MoD things are just getting worse and worse =\
The only way we are going to see evenly matched, competitive, FUN, premade games is if we take the initiative as a community and MAKE it happen.
I'm hoping Julia or someone else picks up the torch and makes a League Ladder that is continuously running. Said League could consist of all kinds of different Ladders which all have different requirements, restrictions, and rules. This would most likely be a huge success and could potentially solve all the problems PvP currently has except for Pug que.
-Enchants OP? Ok on this ladder you cannot use Dragon enchants.
-Elixir's got ya pissed? Ok go to the "no pots" ladder".
-Have a group of friends with low GS who want to PvP against others of their gear level? Join the "<10k GS ladder, or the "No Gear" ladder".
-Want to stack redic class comps and silly broken enchants? Ok join the "Anything Goes" ladder.
The possibilities are endless, literally every problem anyone might have about PvP could be solved in this way, and a special little corner could be carved out for small groups of people who like things a certain way.
As little as 4 or 5 teams per ladder would provide for a very very active and competitive environment. Teams could join as many ladders as they are able to handle and so, could be very very active. New ladders could be created as desired, and dusty old ladders that aren't getting much action could be merged or simply removed.
This would also help establish who and what teams of people are actually good at Domination, thus allowing new players to choose who to take advice from based on their actual gameplay in real, evenly matched Premades.
I have the tools to make this happen, I do not have the time, or honestly, the motivation. If anyone is serious about taking on this task I will gladly give you access to a website that is almost ready to go, and will automate nearly the entire process. I'll even continue to pay the hosting, and of course, I would do my part trolling the League forums
**wow.. pretty sure I went completely off topic there, but I think this is still a good place to try and rekindle the idea.
Yes, but that was not really the problem as I understand it.
I'm still finding myself in strong disagreement with this. Essentially, you're asking to be given back an ability to make it easier for GWFs to catch CWs while asking that CWs have their damage and their ability to avoid damage reduced so that some destroyer GWFs can optimize their damage potential because, let's face it, not all of them have plaguefire so, this isn't a problem with the interaction between classes. It's a problem with destroyer GWFs wanting to optimize their damage. The thing is, what you're asking for doesn't just come into play when a GWF is fighting a CW. It comes into play anytime anyone is fighting a CW and, it doesn't really seem right to me to screw one class against all classes just because one class wants to maximize their damage potential.
To me, it makes way more sense to ask that Destroyer GWFs get a boost to the strength of the buff they get per stack and increasing the duration the stack lasts while decreasing the maximum number of stacks they can have. Then destroyer GWFs can use whatever weapon enchant that they want without penalizing another class in all the fights they take part in regardless of whether or not they're facing a GWF that's using a plaguefire.
I don't actually play a GWF too so, I'm kind of curious just how many stacks they can get of these buffs you're talking about if they need to get 3 every second for those feats to be worth using.
It's also worth pointing out that GFs were allowed to keep their gap closer because it's the only way for them to reach their opponent quickly. GWFs have sprint.
It seems I'm failing to make my point adequately. GWF's need more gap closers for CW's and HR's, not because of plaguefire but because sprint is inadequate without taking so many feats and encounter to buff sprint that when you do catch a CW/HR you will be irrelevant because of the damage boosting feats that you had to sacrifice for sprint. P.fire is essentially not the issue here, I only mentioned it because it worsens the problem. However vorpal carrying Sentinel GWF's will still have issues with teleports and shifts.
If you were to do this and a Destroyer could carry vorpal it would likely make their damage very high again. The crit severity would most likely make almost any class a potential one encounter kill depending on crit chance. However the only way atm to build stacks in a few hits of focused destroyer and destroyer's purpose is through plaguefire. Otherwise you have to beat on someone consistantly for quite a bit to build your stacks up which means you would be dead in PVP. It's difficult to build 20 stacks of DP while being dealt high dps like all the other classes now have.
I hope this helps explain my case a little better. Thanks for the reply.
Didn't they go with this direction because matches were going on too long on the previous module?
The games are starting to feel like pre-tenacity era.
Sry for my horrible english greetings from swtizerland
Deadpool/Shakur
EDIT: But its as well the fault of the pvp community everyone uses every exploid or bug to benefit the most this is not even competitive thinking -.- and the leadboard ruined the pvp moral completly and its just meaningless whos on top...
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
There are two things I am liking about M4 pvp. #1 Gear is not the be all end all that it once was, it will not save you, it will give you a significant edge, as it should have been in the first place. #2 Every class has the opportunity to do fairly well in pvp now, excepting DC, they are the victims of M4.
Things I am not liking about M4 pvp. #1 ganking is worse than ever, to somewhat abusive degrees. #2 plethora of bugs, glitches, exploits, and their presence in PVP. To be expected from a new mod but I hope they get fixed sooner rather than later.
Personally, I am seeing thorn ward as less of a factor than it was M3, not to say that it does not need to be looked at in terms of balance. The two issues I think could be improved with HR are the following. #1 combat HR is still perhaps a bit too tough in terms of survivability against any class but CW. #2 The HR class would be well served by having a single CC break ability. Right now, if they get CCed they can be killed in a spectacularly instant fashion, but if they are running free they can go for miles and miles.
I actually have the complete opposite view of EOTS. Skill as a factor in using EOTS in both pvp and PVE has been reduced dramatically. In pvp it can be very deadly coming from players who have no idea how to use it, hence, the ROF spam you see going on. Additionally, that CD and duration can be used against the CW by an intelligent player who knows how it works. You make a very important point with shard, and that is skill. The single biggest issue I'm having with M4 CW both in playing against them and as one is skill. Examples of low skill abilities that a CW has are ROF, COI on tab, and icy rays. Examples of high skill CW abilities are shard, lightning pillar, and sudden storm. I would like to see high skill abilities produce accordingly rewarding results, and low skill abilities produce accordingly reduced results. As with HR I think that CW could use a CC break ability, my suggestion would be on a shield burst effect. That's all I'm going to say about CW and I don't see them as completely over-powered. I do see them as being very powerful without much skill investment, and that is my issue with them, from both sides of things.
I am assuming you do not main a TR, because the statements on TR are a bit biased. This is to be expected unless you have an in-depth perspective on the class at hand, and equally true for me with HR, GF, DC, and SW. I can only say things based on what I know from fighting them. The best way to know a class is to play one, extensively, with multiple builds.
Stealth node trolls are nothing new but they have seen a increased popularity. What I am talking about is people who is exactly what you just said. People who don't really try to fight and just run anytime they experience a significant threat. We have seen a resurgence of this, but it is not the only way a rogue can be effective and there are rogues not doing this both in perma-stealth and out.
One thing I am liking about M4 is seeing an increased variety of rogue builds. Perma-stealth hasn't dissappeared, but the skill-cap for it has been pushed upwards, to kill people and survive. The fix to arm pen and the reduced survivability of many classes has made combat Trs far more effective than they once were.
Both perma-stealth in terms of balance and a increased viability of other options needs to happen, and let us all agree to hope for the best come mod 5.
TRs do have a new job in pvp and that is vanguard harassment and killing of ranged classes.
It has been my experience from both sides of things that a WELL-PLAYED perma tends to be the biggest factor in winning or losing a dominion match. They now have counters however. The most reliable and efficient of this being any GF or a well-played GWF.
I think it's important to recognize that perma is still one of the most viable options to a TR and they should not be looked down upon for making use of it. There are some rules of conduct I apply personally, and which I would like to see other people use as well.
#1 if your trying to gank the TR 3vs1+ your probably losing that match and he is completely justified in prioritizing survival over fighting back. #2 if the rogue is fighting 1v1 or 2vs1 on the node he should make every effort to fight to the bitter end, depending on the situation. For me, it's excusable to take a quick jaunt around a pillar if I catch a bad break but this is grey territory as far as I'm concerned and i'm back to the node in less than 10 seconds and I never run for potions.
I'm guessing this is your main due to the specific points made. The biggest change I'm seeing is how skill has become a huge factor for GWFs. Things are tough right now, and a large amount of adaptation is happening. I'm seeing people drop the GWF class left and right because of this. For the people who love the GWF class and remain dedicated to it I have nothing but respect and I believe that if you polish your skills and come into things with a open mind ready to adapt you will be rewarded by your efforts. This is where I am at with my GWF and GWF is now officially my favorite class to play in pvp.
I am seeing huge potential and skill rewards from the class. GWF may well be my top pick for the best 1v1 class when played to it's maximum potential, and there is no reason they can't do well in a 5v5 match either. I would not call myself an excellent GWF at the moment. I still have a lot to learn and to build upon. But I am seeing and feeling the potential. In the back of my mind I'm saying "if only" and it's driving me to improve. It's the same thing I experienced when I started using duelist flurry in pvp as a rogue. The timing, anticipation and precision that I learned from that power now serves me well on my GWF. But with GWF it is now even more complicated and harder, and I see the potential as far beyond anything DF can offer. Sprint to a large degree has become the key to things, for this reason battle fury now lives on my hotbar, and I have had much less success without it. Threatening rush I barely use for a gap closer, but mostly to mark for the extra damage. For other encounters I played around with a bunch and came up with three that I prefer. Takedown, Front line surge, and IBS. Now at first glance this may seem to be the obvious choice, but I'm picking TWO of those not three and it's never the same two. Against classes that are CCable I prefer takedown and FLS, I do not actually try to chain these. I hit with one then sure strike, the target usually tries to shift as soon as they are free, I keep up the pressure with sprint and look for my next opportunity with another CC. Against classes where CC is less of a factor or I need burst I'll go with takedown and IBS, GF, combat HR and TR. Sometimes I try to chain my IBS with takedown, but often I do not.
For me, a GWF has no right to complain about a CWs cc, because the class has all the tools it needs to make that practically a non factor. A GWF also has no right to complain about CW damage. Personally, I have never had a CW kill me in 3-4 seconds, but if I get focused by two, yes I go down quick. Part of this is picking your battles and making use of your surroundings. 1v1 against a CW I can cover the gap mighty fast, pop battle fury on the go and now things are point blank and who lands their CCs and damage becomes the deciding factor. A GWF can take out a CW just as fast if not faster than the reverse. Coming from a GWF, the complaints about CW CC and damage are not valid. The difference in skill and ease of use ARE.
One thing I will add that is a huge easter egg and something I am somewhat reluctant to disclose is that I use target lock on my GWF. I'm going to leave it up to other people to figure out how that might make a difference, but I can say it's pure awesomeness. I become a heat-seeking missile that cannot be escaped until I or my target are dead. It's an intended function of the game, but I'm sure some CWs, and GFs that I have faced might be thinking I'm hacking somehow.
On AOD, I am somewhat sure that shocking execution does the same thing and if my imagination isn't playing tricks on me IBS can too. I would guess this is WAI for big finishing moves but can't say for sure. The biggest thing I like seeing was the increased movement for a GF while blocking, as movement is a big factor that shows and rewards skill. I am seeing way too many GFs just put that thing up and hide behind it virtually the whole time, and if they are moving backwards there is no easy way around it. I think that's a bit too strong passively. Block should be limited by either time or damage, the movement however should remain. Against GFs both my GWF and TR are going for his back. I can only wonder what the GF's think when I sprint around them them and FLS, or start a flurry from itc point blank and then jump OVER their head and stab them in the back. On my CW of course it's just icy rays, COI on tab, ROF and they can't do much of anything. Block makes a GF nigh invincible against some attacks and does nothing against others, over all this is pretty balanced, but in specific cases it clearly is not. Not sure how to address this and it could boil down to the rock, paper, scissors approach to pvp.
All excellent points and suggestions. I do see problems with que times and ways they can be abused if implemented. For me, the biggest factor is balanced match making. If that were implemented then pvp becomes much much better for everyone. One way to do that is to take control out of the hands of the players. In other words, eliminate premade queing completely and let the elo system actually work for a change, this would also BTW solve most of the issues with the leaderboard. If you want to fight with friends or as a group you do have other options. And that is OPVP and GG.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter