I'd like to start a friendly thread in which we recant some of our more embarrassing moments as a fresh scrub of an adventurer in Neverwinter. I gather a number of more experienced MMO players (this is my first one) and those that dabble in theorycrafting would likely not have many embarrassing tales, but I'm sure many of us do.
My first character was a DC. Aside from actual gameplay I was rolling an utterly broken build feat wise. I had Sooth slotted post-DC aggro patch and had taken Battlewise along with it. By the time I was 60 I had missed most of the DC's better feats as I had sprayed my points across all 3 trees.
On the gameplay front, one of my most humiliating moments occurred in Helm's Hold. I arrived there and came across my first Shocktroop. I was impressed by the sheer size and due to my visions of being a mighty War Prophet I sought to slay this beast. 2-minutes later I had aggro'd an innumerable amount of Imps and at least half a dozen Legions trying to escape the Shocktroop that I could hardly put a chip in. I died a horrible, embarrassing death. A few levels later I rejoiced as I killed my first Shocktroop solo, it was a great achievement.
My first epic dungeon run was characterised by horrific divinity management resulting in yellow Astral Shields due to the gratuitous use of divine Sun Burst, which saw me fling trash across the dungeon, much to the rage and horror of every single one of my party members. If I recall correctly, I threw a TR off of a bridge as he had locked onto a target when I decided to scatter them with an inappropriate divine Sun Burst.
Also, static play in PVP while using the same powers I used in PVE. I'd stand on a node, drop my shield and then just Sacred Flame away. Needless to say I died often and without much of a fight.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I would actually rage and threaten to leave this "unfair" game back then when I was a nub. (Even back then I only did PVP).
When I look back I was so dam terrible. When facing a GF I'd try to break his shield via SLY FLOURISH XD. I was completely unaware that Duelist's flury ate their shields in seconds.
Oh and I also remember when I was Master Infiltrator at level 30. I got Impossible to Catch for the very first time. Me, being the clueless nub I was back then (I did not read power descriptions whatsoever). I cast ITC, and I'm like "What the hell is this?" I'm just a cloud of smoke! This isn't offensive at all! screw it. And I let ITC rank 1 lol. Then I realized my mistake waaaay later.
I was an offensive addict back then no wonder I'd get slaughtered by pretty much everyone. I was using Sly Flourish, Dazing Strike (Which I was NEVER able to land haha), deft strike, and lashing blade (Trouble landing that too back then).
Most clueless moment: I discarded a pretty good T2 (Via back then's standards and even today). It was Master Assassin's helmet. I had LizardFolk War Visage which is a TERRIBLE helm. I wasn't aware about bonus sets back then and Master Assassin lowered my GS and I was like this item is bad! then bam discard. Not even Salvage, just discard. lol
Oh, I remember raging at others as well while I was also part of the problem. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> TR. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> GWF. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone else, meanwhile my build was broken to pieces and I had no clue what I was doing.
I accused the game of being too hard because I could not clear CC and Idris.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
now its saying patching but it is doing it like last 2 hours ..
That's named "installing an MMO's client". Leave the comp on, patching will be completed overnight.
My most embarrassing moment? First attempts in pvp with my SM destr gwf, bravely going into 1v1 against other classes. How young and naive I was.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2014
When the game was still in beta, I rolled a GWF. I remember playing it for a while, (at least until level 10), and not liking unstoppable because of it's not-always-on characteristic. When the game went live, I rolled a GF, and thought how nice it was to have an always-available class ability... man, looking back, I kinda laugh and cringe at how little I knew.
I also remember leveling up my TR - up until Blackdagger or so, I could just wade into any group and slaughter them because of my superior DPS... man, that was a rude awakening, when I started dying because I wasn't making enough use of stealth and dodge.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Pretty much what Bioshrike said about the TR. That very easy first few levels are why most of my mules are TR's.
When I was leveling I didn't get any skills that I deemed "PvP' related, or didn't have any offensive capabilities. Heck, it was Pirates Skyhold where I learned that Dodge was a TR's very best friend next to a quick Stealth now and again.
On my CW, just about everything mentioned here so far. Also not putting points into Steal Time. That was quickly rectified!
Also little things like equipping every other piece of equipment that dropped because it was "better" than what I was currently wearing, not knowing the importance of certain stats for certain classes. Not knowing which skills to slot for each scenario, boss fight, what have you.
The best thing that ever happened to me in game was when a member of a guild I used to be in pulled me aside in PE and in a polite Tell conversation told me that respec was probably in order. I was pissed and offended. How dare someone tell me how to play my toon! I pressed the Leave button as quick as possible, only months later, after doing some research and messing around did I realize just how correct they were.
So probably my biggest mistake was not listening to people who tried to help and offer advice.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2014
I still feel bad about rolling need on the pirate hat in normal CC because I didn't notice everyone else had rolled greed, or know that was a thing, or anything. Though in my defense, I was still really rather busy fighting the adds even though the boss was down. I bet none of the other people that were in that party even play anymore.
I sold a coal ward found in a 7/7... to a merchant
This has taken the cake.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
I used a coal ward to fuse a R4 or 5.
I used Repel and Ice Storm a lot.
I put 1 or no points into Steal Time and Shards.
I had 2 level 60s before I realized you could slot passives. I thought they were like feats.
I used to rapidly right click-left click my at wills, including Pillar and RoF
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2014
My first two characters were a TR and GWF, both of which have a tab skill that you activate when full and then it drains.
So when I made a DC, I thought it was the same and you basically had to finish using up your divinity with at-wills before you could refill it.
Heck I'm still a newb...and I've been here from day one. To any of the countless parties and groups I've trashed. I can only say, I'm sorry.
Beyond that disclaimer, my worst moment was playing my rogue. And thinking sly flourish really sucked. I got to around level 30 before I discovering I needed to hold down the button. The first time I saw my rogue blink out and go full on slasher crazy. Was both a high and low point for me.
I used a coal ward to fuse a R4 or 5.
I used Repel and Ice Storm a lot.
I put 1 or no points into Steal Time and Shards.
I had 2 level 60s before I realized you could slot passives. I thought they were like feats.
I used to rapidly right click-left click my at wills, including Pillar and RoF
I see many level 60 CWs, amazingly, that still use Ice Storm a lot.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
So do I. I usually see them in Skirmishes or HE's though. I assume they don't do many dungeons, as it's good for soloing.
I also thought that ITC was useless, I had no idea what reflect was back then too.
I discarded/sold to merchants so many epic stuff, instead of salvaging it.
I thought that deft strike was amazing in PVE.
I didn't start actually using stealth to fight in... Until I was about level 53. Prior to that I used it to hide long enough to drink potions. I didn't even take ItC. I went full Scoundrel. I had Battlewise and not Toughness. I hated Duelist's Flurry when I got it so I kept using Sly Flourish. (I still hate DF, but I use it now because you screw yourself if you don't, nice power balance, Cryptic)
To be fair, my TR was leveled to 60 within 4 days of the start of open beta, so most of my decisions were based on 'eh that sounds good must get back to killing must hit 60' and not 'This feat is known to be good, this power is amazing, I'm going for this build'.
By the time any of my other chars made it past like level 10 I knew much better what I was doing and nothing nearly as embarrassing happened with them. They still all needed respecs at 60 because I didn't bother following builds while powerleveling them, but nothing as bad as with Veldrin.
I ran/walked around the whole on neverwinter for 59 levels. Yes 59 levels. Somehow it slipped by me about obtaining a mount. I use to watch with envy you guys streaking past me at incredible speeds I was only educated about mounts after i joined a guild and another guildie gave me a spray about always having to wait for me and why didnt i go buy a mount and stop being a tight wad!!!!! ****!!!!!
I started in closed beta with a GWF, after 10 levels, I starting dying a lot and chug potions in just Tower District. I persisted a bit before giving up and rolled my main, a TR.
Was too eagerly playing to notice I could collect a free companion from a quest until I could collect my first mount. Happily collected the common Wizard (Controller) which was amazing at lower levels, but crapped out about level 30. I then discovered the awesome that is the Cleric companion. I never learned to used stealth for fights, and instead only used it to run from fights, never used ITC either all the way to level 60. Plenty of deaths and retries as I completed all the quests more tediously than had to be, as clueless as I was about feats and their synergies.
Nowadays I happily fade in and out of stealth and cringe at how bad I was, though ITC still stays off my bar mostly.
- when I hit my first 60 I started to collect epic gear. I didn't know that set pieces drop from chest during DD and I spent really a lot of money in AH to buy it.
- I sold a lot of epic stuff to merchant
Ok, here we go... this is more about my personal feeling at the moment than a newbie experience in the gameplay with others.
My very first GF (the same I have since Beta Weekend 2), all excited during the first day of open beta, then I came across The Foundry, the so 'O My Goodness' feature that could make NW so unique. Curiosity and hype at maximum to test it.
This particular Foundry quest, sadly, I dont recall the name, but it was one in Blacklake District. If someone knows which one it was by name, U have my thanks if U name it.
Anyways, the quest was quite simple, something about delivering some sort of potions and whatnots. Then the hell broke loose, as an invasion of Drows suddenly happens. My GF, by RP concepts, has the Paladin vibe (even if in truth she wasnt one). Then I went in a furious assault against the invading Drows, to protect the people there.
I cant finish this tale w/o giving away a major spoiler about the quest, so I apologise in advance... Anyways, in the end, it was all an hallucination caused by the potions fumes. The Drows actually where the people I was trying to save. I slaughtered em with such a joy...
So guess what? I felt stupid the whole day. Man that was a trick thing.
And to whoever made that Foundry quest, I tip my (now) Wizard hat. If I ever find u in-game, ure a dead one.
Leanan Sidhe(not "The Dresde Files" fairy!)- NW Legit Channel Moderator
mikey1968Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
When first started used to walk/ride to the dungeon entrance, till some nice person pointed out the Q system dropped you in.
Spent a small fortune on keys in the first few weeks after seeing the Admin....has a <insert mount> here, believing I would get one. Then about a month later finding out what tourmaline bars are for, and that you could buy coalwards with 'em had 3k+ of Tbars.
Rolled a DC a main char - 'Nuff said. :P
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
On my first character, a TR, I died all the time trying to complete the quests in - Blacklake. Yup.
On my CW, while leveling, I chose the Renegade paragon path because (a) I didn't know what a Thaumaturge was and (b) I didn't want to be an Oppressor, that sounded like an evil wizard. I also chose Half-Elf because I couldn't decide whether to be Human or Elf, and that seemed like a reasonable compromise. Only later did I learn about things like racial bonuses, and the Half-Elf racial bonus kinda sucks for CW. Woohoo, CW got +1 to DEX and +1% Deflect!
when i was first playing the beta i rolled a rogue which i loved then it got nerfed so i was like ok ill roll a cw then it got nerfed then i decided to roll a dc then it got nerfed then i rolled a gf then it got nerfed then i left raged and came back about 6 months later rolled a hr which hasnt been nerfed yet but im guessing it will be soon i just dont have much luck with classes it seems i still play most of them except tanks just not me lol
Going into Idris Dungeon the first time with only Minor Heal potions. I hardly used them to this point and then everybody running up those two flights of stairs to the boss. It was amazing how fast one can go thru 300 potions really quick in one dungeon. :eek:
My first character in most games is going to be a wizard and NW was no exception. Had a really easy time of it because my IRL friend who introduced me to the game was running a character with me the whole time I went through the questline. Only regret there was not doing the skirmishes - when the first CTA was announced I was so relieved. But for my second character (GWF) I wanted to solo all the content and I really struggled. Everything went fine until the midpoint and then I started struggling in lairs due to ignoring the adds and focusing the boss which caused more adds to spawn... She finished up the questline with help from friends. Third char, DC, ran with friends the whole way. Fourth char, TR did basically the same thing my GWF did. Zerging the boss not working? TRY HARDER!
It wasn't until the launch of Feywild that I actually learned how to gear and build effective characters and for the DC, how to solo content. She did reach level 60 sort of soloing in Whispering Caverns when my friends signed off for the night. I just sort of followed people around and 'helped' them kill mobs. First day in Sharandar, somebody rode past with a train of mobs that aggroed on her. It took minutes, she nearly died several times and burned a ton of pots as stuff respawned and joined in. The next day I tried to find someone in Zone to help me run the quests. No one did so I muddled through, eventually figuring out how to fight and developing a strategy that she's still using 10 months later.
More generally, I lost a weeks worth of Ardent coins on my first character trying to spend Celestial coins to get rid of the seventh day invoke message. I used a coal ward to make a rank 6 enchant. In my first dungeon (normal Dread Vault) I cramped my hand shooting Magic Missile at the brain because I didn't know you could just hold down the button. I was the only one attacking the boss and it took forever. Got yelled at for not knowing what Astral Shield was and just running around on my own.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited June 2014
First character, pure healing DC with greens.
Had a horrible time getting to 60. Got wiped multiple times by dungeon bosses. Died on every one then I reached frozen heart and didn't die since I learned to use forgemasters and then got astral shield. Started using both and enjoyed agro'ing everything in sight. Solo content still sucked though.
Second DC wouldn't have none of that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. More paingiver, less wipes.
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mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited June 2014
Not sure about embarrassing but I do have fond memories:
Mad Dragon normal as a 30-something DC before threat was fixed. WTF all these mobs wanna eat me!
Reaching Whispering Caverns, was such a **** I had no idea of the power of Astral Shield I had not taken it. Countless deaths ensued. Then at 60 trying to do Epic CT and CC with still no AS.
Epic Throne of Idris again with all the mobs trying their very best to chow down on some tasty DC. At least I had respecced for AS at that point.
Trying to do Epic ToS with a group of 10-11k friends. Must have tried it 50 times before beating it. I do believe the video is still floating around on youtube of when we finally did it.
Castle Never for the first time as a maybe 12k? Trudging through, dying over and over. Beating the bosses after incredible torture. Then reaching Draco.. and omg.. we had no idea what to do!
I often miss beta. Heck sometimes I wish DC still had all that threat gain, would make things more interesting. The thing I miss most though is actually having to work to get my gear. I wish I could go back to that.
Comments
When I look back I was so dam terrible. When facing a GF I'd try to break his shield via SLY FLOURISH XD. I was completely unaware that Duelist's flury ate their shields in seconds.
Oh and I also remember when I was Master Infiltrator at level 30. I got Impossible to Catch for the very first time. Me, being the clueless nub I was back then (I did not read power descriptions whatsoever). I cast ITC, and I'm like "What the hell is this?" I'm just a cloud of smoke! This isn't offensive at all! screw it. And I let ITC rank 1 lol. Then I realized my mistake waaaay later.
I was an offensive addict back then no wonder I'd get slaughtered by pretty much everyone. I was using Sly Flourish, Dazing Strike (Which I was NEVER able to land haha), deft strike, and lashing blade (Trouble landing that too back then).
Most clueless moment: I discarded a pretty good T2 (Via back then's standards and even today). It was Master Assassin's helmet. I had LizardFolk War Visage which is a TERRIBLE helm. I wasn't aware about bonus sets back then and Master Assassin lowered my GS and I was like this item is bad! then bam discard. Not even Salvage, just discard. lol
I accused the game of being too hard because I could not clear CC and Idris.
That's named "installing an MMO's client". Leave the comp on, patching will be completed overnight.
My most embarrassing moment? First attempts in pvp with my SM destr gwf, bravely going into 1v1 against other classes. How young and naive I was.
I also remember leveling up my TR - up until Blackdagger or so, I could just wade into any group and slaughter them because of my superior DPS... man, that was a rude awakening, when I started dying because I wasn't making enough use of stealth and dodge.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
When I was leveling I didn't get any skills that I deemed "PvP' related, or didn't have any offensive capabilities. Heck, it was Pirates Skyhold where I learned that Dodge was a TR's very best friend next to a quick Stealth now and again.
On my CW, just about everything mentioned here so far. Also not putting points into Steal Time. That was quickly rectified!
Also little things like equipping every other piece of equipment that dropped because it was "better" than what I was currently wearing, not knowing the importance of certain stats for certain classes. Not knowing which skills to slot for each scenario, boss fight, what have you.
The best thing that ever happened to me in game was when a member of a guild I used to be in pulled me aside in PE and in a polite Tell conversation told me that respec was probably in order. I was pissed and offended. How dare someone tell me how to play my toon! I pressed the Leave button as quick as possible, only months later, after doing some research and messing around did I realize just how correct they were.
So probably my biggest mistake was not listening to people who tried to help and offer advice.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
This has taken the cake.
I used Repel and Ice Storm a lot.
I put 1 or no points into Steal Time and Shards.
I had 2 level 60s before I realized you could slot passives. I thought they were like feats.
I used to rapidly right click-left click my at wills, including Pillar and RoF
So when I made a DC, I thought it was the same and you basically had to finish using up your divinity with at-wills before you could refill it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Beyond that disclaimer, my worst moment was playing my rogue. And thinking sly flourish really sucked. I got to around level 30 before I discovering I needed to hold down the button. The first time I saw my rogue blink out and go full on slasher crazy. Was both a high and low point for me.
I see many level 60 CWs, amazingly, that still use Ice Storm a lot.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I discarded/sold to merchants so many epic stuff, instead of salvaging it.
I thought that deft strike was amazing in PVE.
To be fair, my TR was leveled to 60 within 4 days of the start of open beta, so most of my decisions were based on 'eh that sounds good must get back to killing must hit 60' and not 'This feat is known to be good, this power is amazing, I'm going for this build'.
By the time any of my other chars made it past like level 10 I knew much better what I was doing and nothing nearly as embarrassing happened with them. They still all needed respecs at 60 because I didn't bother following builds while powerleveling them, but nothing as bad as with Veldrin.
Was too eagerly playing to notice I could collect a free companion from a quest until I could collect my first mount. Happily collected the common Wizard (Controller) which was amazing at lower levels, but crapped out about level 30. I then discovered the awesome that is the Cleric companion. I never learned to used stealth for fights, and instead only used it to run from fights, never used ITC either all the way to level 60. Plenty of deaths and retries as I completed all the quests more tediously than had to be, as clueless as I was about feats and their synergies.
Nowadays I happily fade in and out of stealth and cringe at how bad I was, though ITC still stays off my bar mostly.
- I sold a lot of epic stuff to merchant
I didn't even pay attention to, nor used divinity until level 30 :eek:
My very first GF (the same I have since Beta Weekend 2), all excited during the first day of open beta, then I came across The Foundry, the so 'O My Goodness' feature that could make NW so unique. Curiosity and hype at maximum to test it.
This particular Foundry quest, sadly, I dont recall the name, but it was one in Blacklake District. If someone knows which one it was by name, U have my thanks if U name it.
Anyways, the quest was quite simple, something about delivering some sort of potions and whatnots. Then the hell broke loose, as an invasion of Drows suddenly happens. My GF, by RP concepts, has the Paladin vibe (even if in truth she wasnt one). Then I went in a furious assault against the invading Drows, to protect the people there.
I cant finish this tale w/o giving away a major spoiler about the quest, so I apologise in advance... Anyways, in the end, it was all an hallucination caused by the potions fumes. The Drows actually where the people I was trying to save. I slaughtered em with such a joy...
So guess what? I felt stupid the whole day. Man that was a trick thing.
And to whoever made that Foundry quest, I tip my (now) Wizard hat. If I ever find u in-game, ure a dead one.
Spent a small fortune on keys in the first few weeks after seeing the Admin....has a <insert mount> here, believing I would get one. Then about a month later finding out what tourmaline bars are for, and that you could buy coalwards with 'em had 3k+ of Tbars.
Rolled a DC a main char - 'Nuff said. :P
"I am Slayer", I believe.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
On my CW, while leveling, I chose the Renegade paragon path because (a) I didn't know what a Thaumaturge was and (b) I didn't want to be an Oppressor, that sounded like an evil wizard. I also chose Half-Elf because I couldn't decide whether to be Human or Elf, and that seemed like a reasonable compromise. Only later did I learn about things like racial bonuses, and the Half-Elf racial bonus kinda sucks for CW. Woohoo, CW got +1 to DEX and +1% Deflect!
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
It wasn't until the launch of Feywild that I actually learned how to gear and build effective characters and for the DC, how to solo content. She did reach level 60 sort of soloing in Whispering Caverns when my friends signed off for the night. I just sort of followed people around and 'helped' them kill mobs. First day in Sharandar, somebody rode past with a train of mobs that aggroed on her. It took minutes, she nearly died several times and burned a ton of pots as stuff respawned and joined in. The next day I tried to find someone in Zone to help me run the quests. No one did so I muddled through, eventually figuring out how to fight and developing a strategy that she's still using 10 months later.
More generally, I lost a weeks worth of Ardent coins on my first character trying to spend Celestial coins to get rid of the seventh day invoke message. I used a coal ward to make a rank 6 enchant. In my first dungeon (normal Dread Vault) I cramped my hand shooting Magic Missile at the brain because I didn't know you could just hold down the button. I was the only one attacking the boss and it took forever. Got yelled at for not knowing what Astral Shield was and just running around on my own.
Had a horrible time getting to 60. Got wiped multiple times by dungeon bosses. Died on every one then I reached frozen heart and didn't die since I learned to use forgemasters and then got astral shield. Started using both and enjoyed agro'ing everything in sight. Solo content still sucked though.
Second DC wouldn't have none of that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. More paingiver, less wipes.
Mad Dragon normal as a 30-something DC before threat was fixed. WTF all these mobs wanna eat me!
Reaching Whispering Caverns, was such a **** I had no idea of the power of Astral Shield I had not taken it. Countless deaths ensued. Then at 60 trying to do Epic CT and CC with still no AS.
Epic Throne of Idris again with all the mobs trying their very best to chow down on some tasty DC. At least I had respecced for AS at that point.
Trying to do Epic ToS with a group of 10-11k friends. Must have tried it 50 times before beating it. I do believe the video is still floating around on youtube of when we finally did it.
Castle Never for the first time as a maybe 12k? Trudging through, dying over and over. Beating the bosses after incredible torture. Then reaching Draco.. and omg.. we had no idea what to do!
I often miss beta. Heck sometimes I wish DC still had all that threat gain, would make things more interesting. The thing I miss most though is actually having to work to get my gear. I wish I could go back to that.