test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
This is probably asking for too much but......
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
One of the most imbalanced things I have seen in my time playing this game - since OB - is that alot of weapon enchants deal damage PER HIT based upon WEAPON DAMAGE.
Why is that imbalanced?
Well because what this type of system rewards is hitting a target as fast as possible to proc these weapon hits regarldess of the actual damage the attack deals.
A good example:
TR - Duelist Flurry. The reason its so strong with Bile is because its SO many fast attacks that all proc weapon enchant procs. Well if you think about it this way:
A TR hits a target with cloud of steel for say 600-700 damage, but gets 23.5% (over time) in weapon damage as added damage (off 1000 total weapon damage) thats 235/700 = a 33.5% damage boost to THAT attack.
Where as a Lashing Blade crits for say 12,000 - gets the SAME benefit of 235 (over time) thats only a 1.9% damage boost to THAT attack (off a PERFECT ENCHANT!)
Now there are people that may like it that way, but I think there may be a better solution...
What COULD be a better solution?
That these enchants deal an extra FLAT damage boost to the attack based on the FINAL damage of the attack.
Something like how Deep Gash for GWFs is on LIVE Its roughly (on my GWF) a damage proc close to 10% of the final damage. which ticks for 5 ticks so a massive boost of 50% dmg on that crit - just an example.
So what this would look like - Take BILETHORN for example:
CURRENT:
7.5% weapon damage and 16% after 4 seconds.
PROPOSED:
An extra 4% damage to the attack and an extra 8.5% damage after 4 seconds.
How would this look?
Cloud of Steel NOW hits for 700, and instead of a 235 damage boost, you get 4% (a 28 dmg boost) and a 59.5 damage DOT after four seconds.
Lashing NOW hits for 12,000 and instead of 235 you get a 4% (480 dmg boost) and a 1020 damage DOT after four seconds.
Both of these NOW benefit the SAME % wise from the same enchant. - This opens more encounter options and play styles.
I think it would actually be quite easy to balance enchants if using RAW numbers like this since you can then roughly give each enchant close to the same "damage boost" rather than "damage based on number of hits" - because the latter can scale from a 1% boost to over 30% boost as shown above just depending on the TYPE of attack made.
This becomes even MORE clear when looking at guardian fighters. Lowest weapon damage AND slowest attack speed in melee range.
This introduces aspects of power/crit/arp into the actual weapon enchant now since its all based on weapon damage - almost like Bronzewood increasing at will and encounter damage by 16% - These other enchants would do the same thing in a different way. % more damage upfront/overtime/with other effects etc...
- This is partyl why Vorpal has been so strong in the past. Because its a damage based effect not a weapon enchant based effect. Same with Bronzewood - Often its one of the best.
This would ALSO resurrect old enchants like Lifedrinker!!!!
Currently 8.8% WEAPON DAMAGE.
If changed to something like 5% of FINAL damage this could be useful!
Basically instead of a reference for damage based on weapon damage, it scales based off actual damage.
Why is that imbalanced?
Well because what this type of system rewards is hitting a target as fast as possible to proc these weapon hits regarldess of the actual damage the attack deals.
A good example:
TR - Duelist Flurry. The reason its so strong with Bile is because its SO many fast attacks that all proc weapon enchant procs. Well if you think about it this way:
A TR hits a target with cloud of steel for say 600-700 damage, but gets 23.5% (over time) in weapon damage as added damage (off 1000 total weapon damage) thats 235/700 = a 33.5% damage boost to THAT attack.
Where as a Lashing Blade crits for say 12,000 - gets the SAME benefit of 235 (over time) thats only a 1.9% damage boost to THAT attack (off a PERFECT ENCHANT!)
Now there are people that may like it that way, but I think there may be a better solution...
What COULD be a better solution?
That these enchants deal an extra FLAT damage boost to the attack based on the FINAL damage of the attack.
Something like how Deep Gash for GWFs is on LIVE Its roughly (on my GWF) a damage proc close to 10% of the final damage. which ticks for 5 ticks so a massive boost of 50% dmg on that crit - just an example.
So what this would look like - Take BILETHORN for example:
CURRENT:
7.5% weapon damage and 16% after 4 seconds.
PROPOSED:
An extra 4% damage to the attack and an extra 8.5% damage after 4 seconds.
How would this look?
Cloud of Steel NOW hits for 700, and instead of a 235 damage boost, you get 4% (a 28 dmg boost) and a 59.5 damage DOT after four seconds.
Lashing NOW hits for 12,000 and instead of 235 you get a 4% (480 dmg boost) and a 1020 damage DOT after four seconds.
Both of these NOW benefit the SAME % wise from the same enchant. - This opens more encounter options and play styles.
I think it would actually be quite easy to balance enchants if using RAW numbers like this since you can then roughly give each enchant close to the same "damage boost" rather than "damage based on number of hits" - because the latter can scale from a 1% boost to over 30% boost as shown above just depending on the TYPE of attack made.
This becomes even MORE clear when looking at guardian fighters. Lowest weapon damage AND slowest attack speed in melee range.
This introduces aspects of power/crit/arp into the actual weapon enchant now since its all based on weapon damage - almost like Bronzewood increasing at will and encounter damage by 16% - These other enchants would do the same thing in a different way. % more damage upfront/overtime/with other effects etc...
- This is partyl why Vorpal has been so strong in the past. Because its a damage based effect not a weapon enchant based effect. Same with Bronzewood - Often its one of the best.
This would ALSO resurrect old enchants like Lifedrinker!!!!
Currently 8.8% WEAPON DAMAGE.
If changed to something like 5% of FINAL damage this could be useful!
Basically instead of a reference for damage based on weapon damage, it scales based off actual damage.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
if other enchants were to be based off of actual damage rather than weapon damage, it could make them as desireable
Thats what im saying!!!!
Some of the most fun enchants out there - one of which being lifedrinker IMO scales off weapon damage... Well Id love to make a GF lifedrinker build but getting 8.8% of 671 (AT BEST) is:
59 health back PER HIT - BEFORE DEPRESSION... SO on my GF I hit someone with all three encounters and get healed for 88 NET + health?
Why would I slot that when I can slot Bronzewood or vorpal and deal THOUSDANDS more in damage? It makes no sense.....
Now again, if it were say 5% of damage....
I NOW use all encounters and say do 12k damage in that rotation, I just healed myself for 600 (300) net healing depression... Well thats SIGNIFICANTLY better. Heck maybe even keep it at 8.8% more damage and healing...
10k dmg = 880 heal /2 = 440 NET heal. That actually seems fairly reasonable considering Tenacity/healing depression etc. The only thing this may be overpowered in PVE since this would be an auto full heal on some MAJOR crits or AOE damage....
Just a few ideas tho... I mean again, compare it to a vorpal enchant though.... Vorpal is something like a 36% damage bonus on crits. In PVE players easily can reach 50% crit chance meaning its an average 18% dmg boost...
So SHOULDNT a damage boost that heals you be roughly 50% the effectiveness?
Just thinking out loud here.
Shoot, YOu could do:
LIFEDRINKER:
Deal 8.8% more damage and heal yourself for that amount. Can only proc once every second...
This removes the massive AOE spam that would break it in pve...
not just this vorapl is only enchant on which works damage modifiers like power,arp,crtic,buffs de buffs from other ppl and this what makes vorpal the best to balance other encchnats damage modifiers should work on them like they do on vorpal
Yeah I wouldnt mind this change, but I also think it misses the point... I mean even if you add power and DR into the equation, this still will benefit classes that can rapdily attack versus slow attacks.
I just really think this change would DRASTICALLY fix alot of things in NW... Would Vorpal still be good? Sure! But this seriously would offer up ALOT of other options for enchants...
I mean You could do Plague Fire Enchant:
Your attacks burn your foes for an additional 4% of damage and you burn your foe for an additional 1% of damage every second for three seconds and induce terror blah blah 15%, stacks 3 times.
So now Every attack gets a 4% damage boost plus an additional 1% each second (so 7%) Then you can get another 3 stacks which will boost roughly another 9% of damage - so this COULD be very attractive...
Frost Enchant: (Current worthless)
If changed to a % damage boost instead of weapon damage - this could actually be worth while...
Terror:
Deal an additional 7% of damage and reduce foes defense by 20%. Etc.
You can see how this would work...
It would also open alot of build options for not only the GF but other classes as well.
I would also STRONGLY encourage them to revisit armor enchants because alot of them are lacking its ridiculous.
Negation - This should only have a chance to activate once below 50% HP, this would make the enchant really useful.
Thunderhead - The stun on this should be increased due to tenacity shortening the duration. Or the CD should be dropped to 45 seconds.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
This could, my understanding was that if damage from an enchant went through that "channel" then it would also be modified by armor pen and crit?
Maybe I am wrong there, but I still think that weapon enchants just need to be a plain damage increase and not a mechanic of attack speed.
I HIGHLY doubt well see ANY improvements or changes at all in Neverwinter as it seems, to me, that Module 4 was pushed on Cryptic as a big release of the new 5e rules, and as such, they are REALLY busy making the new mod, AND I would guess changes to the game to reflect some 5e rules...
I saw a post a while back that is fuzzy now, maybe someone can find it, where a DEV (Crush I think) mentioned that for module 3 they actually wanted to rework stats as a whole but it was too much of a re-work/overhaul for module 3 and wouldn't e ready. My suspicion is that either got shelved for mod 4 OR is going to be in mod 4.
Either way, hold on for August because itll be VERY interesting to see what happens.
Why they need to be identical in a graph is beyond too serious.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well, what is supposed to benefit a GF? He has slot atk speed and low weapon damage? The whole thing just scales weird and makes enchants too limited IMO. If you open it up to % damage based enchants (more like bronzewood is) then all classes get the benefit evenly.
Crush posted
This is in a different thread but wanted to post here.
I later posted the liability of his idea is that it gives alot of weapon damage boosts to long attacks like Lashing and IBS giving some attacks IMO more damage than intended.
I still am of the impression that giving flat damage boosts to attacks is a much easier way to go with each enchant giving its own benefit in return.
I.E. - Bile is a damage then 4 sec later damage
versus
Life drinker could act alot like Lifesteal in that it returns a flat % as healing - making the enchant good again.
Then you can take thinks like GPF and make it the same for PVE as it is in PVP a 3% damage per stack and turn the DOT portion into a flat damage boost as well - like Terror deals damage + armor reduction = more damage.
Each has its own "feature" if you will and normalizing all of them makes it so players have more variety in flavor rather than saying "your a TR - Bile is clearly BIS"
With a normalized % damage bonus, all classes truly get same benefits as others. People may find Niche builds - AWESOME! But this would allow for more options....
I know I would JUMP all over this since it gives each player the choice and not just a clear cut 1 is better than others...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Agree with this 100%.
Not at all! Vorpal only increases crit damage, not ALL damage. Also, think about that for a second. If you want to utilize vorpal+lifesteal you have to now stack TWO things: Crit/Lifesteal to really utilize that otherwise well, you wont crit and thus vorpal wont help OR you wont get much returned back if you dont stack lifesteal.
With you stacking crit/lifesteal you now lose out on more power/arp and in some cases things like defense/deflect/tenacity etc.
Well Lifedrinker COULD be an alternative method to that, with lifedrinker you could stack arp/power/crit/etc and get back a flat % of damage on every attack, not just crits. Also, it doesnt get affected by diminishing returns either so IF you wanted you could take it a step further and stack lifesteal PLUS lifedrinker for an all out self-healing toon.
All this does is open up more options for the player.
Look at another example:
Holy Avenger. Currently deals 19% as radiant damage and boosts DR once per minute. Well the enchant is almost never used. If it were something though like a flat 6% damage boost AND boosted DR - now its more appealing for classes to use that want to be more tanky. I could see a GF running this now because its more damage than before plus the nice utility function.
Across the board, I think, this would really give players alot more options and I also think youd start to see alot of variance in the possible builds. As of right now 90% of pvpers pretty much run the same powers/gear/weapon enchants etc... Doing this would create ALOT of diversity.
Yeah I made a thread about GWFs but honestly the roar nerf + Unstoppable recovery are gonna be pretty big, Id like to see those in action first.
I think one thing I would feel comfortable doing is changing the capstone feat from 20 stacks @ 2% damage per stack to 30 stacks @ 1% - an overall 10% damage loss. I think that would balance them better. Id also remove the 10% encounter damage bonus as well.
Id really like to see TRs changed to play more like an HR currently does. HRs to have their melee tree nerfed a tad and the ranged tree buffed up. GFs need some work done... Honestly not sure how CWs can cope against HRs - dont have any experience in that area so I cant really comment.
Unfortunately even if I can get a good response, its not coming anytime soon and also - most of my posts would require multiple changes - I.E. if Perma Stealth gets redone - it requires more changes than just a stealth nerf
So I guess well see. I was thinking about coming up with a combined class rebalance thread basically discussion on the above but most of the time those threads just get lost.
So as a GF I hit slow really slow and I have the lowest damage weapon in the game 641 dmg... So I am at a complete disadvantage for Lifesteal, Bilethorn, Plaguefire, lightning, etc... As they all take Weapon damage into account and so I will do very little.
Then you have the Enchants that use the amount of damage you did or fast it is applied, GWF uses IBS and hits for 15k-30k damage hes gonna get some sweet Lifesteal back, a TR using Duelest Fury is gonna hit so fast and so many times he to will get a sweet amount of life steal back. Then apply the GF again he hits from 1200- 8k slowly hes not gonna get anything really special?
So right now it effects me the GF a ton, but everyone else is having fun with it so.....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yeah you identified the issue as well, GFs have slowest atk speed and lowest weapon damage. But I think you under estimate the GF.
GFs prior to mod 3 actually averaged higher DPS to GWFs but just had less Burst damage. Think of it this way, Lunge Strike does like 4-5k? every 6 seconds? Well IBS is on a 16+ second CD, so you get roughly 3 lunges to each IBS, 4-5k*3=15k. The IBS that deal 15-30k damage are only on crits and on debuffed targets with super low HP, the most common IBS is actually a non-crit around 10-11k, in fact when you ACT Takedown actually deals about the same DPS as IBS.
Overall throw lifesteal as a % damage, sure GWFs and TRs COULD use that as an alternative, biut thats the point... GFs IMO would also benefit ALOT as well. Thats IMO the only way to normalize the enchants.
Think about an IBS critting for 18k and it heals back maybe 4-5%? Thats a 900 heal and cut by HD so 450 heal off a 16+ sec CD and an amazing crit... versus right now the GWF crits with lifedrinker for 18k and gets back 8.8% of 1000? so... 88? and its hurt by HD so its 44? Seems worthless....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!