Does Enforced Threat trigger Crushing Pin?

thestaggy · May 2014

Can anybody verify if Crushing Pin (Target takes 10% bonus damage for 3 seconds) is triggered by Enforced Threat and if the bonus from Crushing Pin applies to your party?

cilginordek · May 2014

Crushing Pin is not triggered by Enforced Threat.
Crushing Pin puts a debuff on target so anyone who is hitting the target get the bonus.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

So if you Frontline surged and proned the targets then Enforced Threat you would receive bonus damage.

cilginordek · May 2014

Yes, but keep in mind Enforced Threat puts mark on enemies as well and that's a debuff too. There is not certain order you should use them. It depends on type of enemy and personal preference, there is no huge difference. What I would recommend is using them as much as possible, so don't keep waiting for ones cooldown when the other is ready.

thestaggy · May 2014

Thanks.

Just checking as I wasn't sure if Enforced Threat was considered a control power or not.

I do spam Enforced Threat as it is but as I am looking to respec I wanted to find out a little bit more about Crushing Pin.

damanhur89 · May 2014

Yes, Enforced Threat is a control power. I can also confirm what cilginordek claims, so if you use Enforced threat, Frontile, and lunging strike in PVE, you can just spam these powers when they are ready to be used. There is not a real order in which they should be used.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

damanhur89 wrote: »

Yes, Enforced Threat is a control power. I can also confirm what cilginordek claims, so if you use Enforced threat, Frontile, and lunging strike in PVE, you can just spam these powers when they are ready to be used. There is not a real order in which they should be used.

Where can you confirm Enforced Threat as a Control Power?

damanhur89 · May 2014

Nowhere rip, I played this calss only for over one year, so you just have to trust my experience. When you taunt enemies you mark them and control them for the duration of the mark. in particular, 8 enemies stick to you as long as they have the mark applied. In addition, some talents reduce enemies damage when these are marked. Therefore, there is no line saying "Enforced threat is a control power", and there are only hints that suggest you that ET is a control power. In light of this fact, you have to trust someone experienced who tell you that ET is a control power.

cilginordek · May 2014

damanhur89 wrote: »

Nowhere rip, I played this calss only for over one year, so you just have to trust my experience. When you taunt enemies you mark them and control them for the duration of the mark. in particular, 8 enemies stick to you as long as they have the mark applied. In addition, some talents reduce enemies damage when these are marked. Therefore, there is no line saying "Enforced threat is a control power", and there are only hints that suggest you that ET is a control power. In light of this fact, you have to trust someone experienced who tell you that ET is a control power.

I tested it on dummies, marking with Enchanted Mark did not apply crushing pin debuff.

Here is a picture, both dummies are affected by Enchanted Mark but I also hit the closer one with Frontline Surge so you can see the fist icon of Crushing Pin:

Generally, control powers are powers that hinder or disrupt enemies in one way or another. For example; slowing, sending prone, halting ability to attack are all control effects. Mark is only a debuff and doesn't do any of those so it's not a control power.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

cilginordek wrote: »

I tested it on dummies, marking with Enchanted Mark did not apply crushing pin debuff.

Here is a picture, both dummies are affected by Enchanted Mark but I also hit the closer one with Frontline Surge so you can see the fist icon of Crushing Pin:

Generally, control powers are powers that hinder or disrupt enemies in one way or another. For example; slowing, sending prone, halting ability to attack are all control effects. Mark is only a debuff and doesn't do any of those so it's not a control power.

Ahhh, I didn't think it did apply the Crushing Pin. I will try too, when I get home from work.

damanhur89 · May 2014

I sent a couple of tickets to the Devs yesterday because there are surely 2 bugs that are very annoying. First, Enforced threat should be really considered a Control Power, because it disrupt enemies from attaking your teammates, and it makes enemies chase you. Marking enemies should only apply a debuff, but Enforced Threat controls mobs already, so this power seriously have to be considered a contol power. Secondly, Armor Specializationseems to be bugged, because it does not increase the effectiveness of my Defense and AC by ant means.

ripyourlipsoff · May 2014

damanhur89 wrote: »

I sent a couple of tickets to the Devs yesterday because there are surely 2 bugs that are very annoying. First, Enforced threat should be really considered a Control Power, because it disrupt enemies from attaking your teammates, and it makes enemies chase you. Marking enemies should only apply a debuff, but Enforced Threat controls mobs already, so this power seriously have to be considered a contol power. Secondly, Armor Specializationseems to be bugged, because it does not increase the effectiveness of my Defense and AC by ant means.

Really? Hmm I never even looked prior to feating it! Thats not cool!

cilginordek · May 2014

I wouldn't consider adding threat a control effect. Because healing or simply attacking adds threat too and it would be ridiculous if all that was control effects. Also if you think about PvP, marking does not disrupt enemy in any way.

Armor Specialization on the other hand, is a very important feat and if its not working as intended, then its a real shame and developers must do something about it.

damanhur89 · May 2014

cilginordek wrote: »

I wouldn't consider adding threat a control effect. Because healing or simply attacking adds threat too and it would be ridiculous if all that was control effects. Also if you think about PvP, marking does not disrupt enemy in any way.

Armor Specialization on the other hand, is a very important feat and if its not working as intended, then its a real shame and developers must do something about it.

I see your point, especially when you refer to PVP mechanics.

Unless Armor Specialization has a "passive effect" in the sense that its beneficial effects are applied to the character, but they are not visible on the character stats, I think this feat is bugged.
In particular, my AC is 37 and my PG defense is 4000 without comanions and Ioun.

Please, correct me If I am doing miscalculations:
AC 37 + 3rd rank AS 15% = 37+[(37*15)/100] = 37+5.55 = 42.55 AC ____so let's say 42 AC with AS working correctly, which means at least +2.5% DR because 5.55*0.5= 2.75%
In light of this analysis, every GF should have at least 2.5/3% more DR.
In addition, Defense 4000 + [(4000*15)/100] = 4000 + 600 = 4600 Defene with AS working correctly, which would further increase GF DR (maybe 1%?)

IF THIS FEAT IS TRULY BUGGED, THAN GF HAVE 3-4% LESS DR THAN WHAT ACTUALLY THEY SHOUD HAVE.... I WISH I COULD BE WRONG, BECAUSE THIS AMOUT OF DR IS HUGE!

Thank you for your nice comments cilginordek

khatzhas · May 2014

Bear in mind that Armour Specialisation does not change your AC or Defence. 37 AC with 3 ranks or Armour specialisation is still 37 AC. 4000 defence with 3 ranks of Armour specialisation is still 4000.

It changes the effect of AC and defence. This is generally better in the case of defence due to diminishing returns. (DR of 4000 defence) x 1.15 is generally going to be higher than DR of (4000 defence x 1.15).

IIRC this difference in DR isn't shown on the character sheet, but can be calculated from the combat log.

Game mechanic wise, Control Powers are effects like stuns, knockdowns and such. I do not believe that taunts are considered Control powers using that specific criteria, even though you might think of them as exerting some form of control over the mobs.

damanhur89 · May 2014

khatzhas wrote: »

Bear in mind that Armour Specialisation does not change your AC or Defence. 37 AC with 3 ranks or Armour specialisation is still 37 AC. 4000 defence with 3 ranks of Armour specialisation is still 4000.

It changes the effect of AC and defence. This is generally better in the case of defence due to diminishing returns. (DR of 4000 defence) x 1.15 is generally going to be higher than DR of (4000 defence x 1.15).

IIRC this difference in DR isn't shown on the character sheet, but can be calculated from the combat log.

Game mechanic wise, Control Powers are effects like stuns, knockdowns and such. I do not believe that taunts are considered Control powers using that specific criteria, even though you might think of them as exerting some form of control over the mobs.

I appreciate your opinion about Enforced threat

I was thinking of it as a "sort" of control power, but I see that it maybe cannot be really considered a control power. Thank you to you and cilginordek.

Pardon me, how do you calculate the effect of Armor Specialization from the combat log? I am really troubled about this feat, maybe you can help me out to clear my mind?

Does Enforced Threat trigger Crushing Pin?

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