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"Control" Wizard gripe in PVP
ahsher
Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
It's almost impossible to be a reliable Contol Wizard in PvP. I'm not talking executioner/perfect vorpal killing machine.
The Control mechanic is our Defense: TR have stealth, GF have shield, DC Heal, HR (6 Dodges and leather armor) . . .
Someone in your dev team Hates Control Wizards.
Why even create a class, call it control wizard and then create game mechanics around that to defeat the class.
The only class ability that extends Control is 15%. What is 15% of 1 second? Unnoticable.
The Control mechanic is our Defense: TR have stealth, GF have shield, DC Heal, HR (6 Dodges and leather armor) . . .
- Specific races have high immunity to Control
- Class abilities make others immune to control
- Armor Enchants can make control useless
- Then you add TENACITY
Someone in your dev team Hates Control Wizards.
Why even create a class, call it control wizard and then create game mechanics around that to defeat the class.
The only class ability that extends Control is 15%. What is 15% of 1 second? Unnoticable.
Post edited by ahsher on
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Its just that especially with the introduction of Tenacity, it ruined CW's two best strengths: burst damage and CC.
Also, the meta in PVP is to have a very tanky toon with a lot of defensive skills, none of which the CW has.
Lastly, 5 on 5 PVP on 3 nodes promotes a lot of 1v1 battles which the CW is awful at. CWs are actually very dangerous in gaunt.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
This is true, and that will also be looked at. Hopefully they do it well. As you can see by the hr adjustments. they do not always mean everything gets nerfed.
The only thing I think needs to be looked at is the amount of spells that make my Shard disappear. Stun spells are doubly effective against CWs because they not only stun but also nullify our most important encounter.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
As someone who plays a CW on a daily basis, with BiS gear, in high end pvp, we are underpowered as all belief.
Let's pretend every person is max geared for pvp, rank 10s, perfects, everything.
1v1 - pick a class, if it's not a DC or maybe GF, dead CW.
2 people gank - instadead CW
2 people ganking - would you rather fight a CW & GWF? Or 2 GWFs?
Rotation - HR or CW?
We are not horrible by any means. But the best comp does not include us and there is a reason.
They don't.
Also, the main problem with CWs right now is bugged ArP, that doesn't work on most important abilities (such as Ice Knife and Icy Rays).
ppl just play cw in the wrong way for example it is not tank so it should let tank classes in front but u will see many times cws running solo to take nodes or going in the mid in front of tank classes
The discussion is not about dumb pug CWs, but good BiS PvP ones.
I don't think they are that bad; but they depend on team. If your team is good and dominating, having good tanks that are able to survive on nodes, CW can roam and do their job.
If your team has weak links that die too fast or don't understand elementary focusing order, CW is pretty much a walking kill.
Also to play CW at max potential you need tanky party that has lots of CC. GFs, GWFs, HRs are awesome partners. TRs are not, cause they will be hidden most time so you will be targeted easily.
But after all these things, usually one more GWF or perma is better for your party than a CW, and a HR is better 100%.
Nobody gripes about 4 CW parties and I healer... or 1 GWF, 3 CW and a healer?
I mean in PVE ...CW are gods and GF are pets...and u don't really miss the GF and not really
care about GF left aside for a CW.
Now u come to PVP where all the other Classes have an spot and u complaint because in here
u don't Rule ... and are not Invincible like in PVE...
I mean really?
For all I care the only CW that should be playing PVP are halfings builds CW specially designed
for pvp... cause in PVE theyre gonna be left behind in most dungeons...
If your a PVE CW stop complaining about PVP cause...well youre getting all the add in PVE...
you cant have everything in life:rolleyes:
and get to experience all the game to its fullest... finish the whole game .... get geared first ...
get rich first...while GF,TR and some HR only dream of someday finishing CN or the entire game...
get poor and get geared so much slowly cause nobody would sacrifice a OP CW for a GF,TR...
Shh... im actually glad I can get to assassinate some CW in PVP to do some Justice and rebalancing
the game...
I mean its the only part of the game where your OPness doest matter(cause your squishy if ur PVE)
and u wanna spoil this part too and claim Cryptic hate you.... lol u should roll a GF or TR and try to
endure so u learn to appreciate more what u have.
Um, lots of people gripe about the CWs' dominance in PvE. There are dozens of threads about it and they make a valid point. It's also valid to complain that CWs are crippled in PvP. If Cryptic want people to play PvP then it has to be accessible to PvE specced players in some sense, not just some bizarre build that may well be hugely affected by future changes.
PVE strengths should not be compensated by PVP handicaps
Thanks.
As of now, I agree with you. I don't think the CW scales very well with the BiS environment. This is largely because Shard is so easily countered by competent, informed opponents. You make Shard no longer disappear to silly stuns like Constricting Arrow (which is severely overpowered against a CW regardless of Shard) and you'll see that CW is just as viable as other classes.
We're slightly underpowered, but the severity of this is seriously exaggerated by crappy PvE players who whine too much and hardcore PvP players who can't hang with the BiS premades because HRs just stalk them the whole match and perma-constrict.
There's a happy medium in between under-geared clueless noobs and BiS pros where the CW is perfectly effective. This is the environment that the majority of Neverwinter plays in. I've been kicking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ and taking names in this environment for a while now.
My point is, beyond asking for Shard to not disappear, I really don't know what else to ask for. It seems like anything more and we end up with QQ Nerf CW threads instead of QQ Buff CW threads.
Dramatic buffs to the CW are unwelcomed imo. Just stop taking away my shard and give us 10v10 PvP = CW fixed.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
That's the thing... the poster's not hijacking the thread. You want to make a "valid" argument about cw's in pvp, yes. But youre not accounting for what boosting cw's will do to the game overall. You turn them into the best(or at least up there) class in pvp, and now you have a class that most people will want to play in pve AND pvp. Im not saying that they shouldn't be buffed a little possibly, but if you buff them so theyre high up on the pecking order of pvp as well, who would want to play anything else? Or should people ask that the cw's get buffed in pvp, so in return, I want my gf capable of mass cc and crowd kill(arcane singularity, oppressive force, shard of the endless avalanche, steal time, etc)?
It's your class that's always been the strongest in PvE and the most accurate in PvP (even though I've got to admit it's a lil bit weaker after the pvp patch). It's your class that tells the rogues and GF underdogs that they are useless in PvE. It's your class that's got a game breaker noone else has - singularity. And now you say that they are hated? Hands down...
Also, have you ever seen a pro PvPer playing a CW? It's like an endless prone with shard of endless avalache and troll-kite everything around them that dares to attack them lol
So please stop your claiming as I find it offensive after I've got enough ingame negative feedback on my lovely rogues that forced me to roll a servant DC class that you tend to harrass very often in PvE too.
P.S Yes, it's strong and it's with me.
WTB Class Reroll please
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I would agree =/
Here's a list of why we lose
1- we have max 24% ArP on some abilities and 0% on others.
**GwFs have 35-37% Arp on all attacks
2- I have 38k HP
**GwFs have 38-42k HP
3- I have 1550 Regen
**GwFs have 1600+ Regen
4- I have 29% DR
**GwFs have ~50% DR
5- I have 1 prone that can be taken away
**GwFs have 2 that cannot
6- I have no encounter of tab ability for CC Resist
**GwFs have Unstoppable
7- I have 10% Deflect
**GwFs have 30-40% Deflect
8- I can die before I find a semi perma
**Not a chance
9- Most I have Crit for on a BiS Senti = 4-5k
**Max they hit me for = 10-15k
I understand that it is not all about math.. But at a certain point I have to outplay a GWF 10 times over to even have a chance at winning =/
Now I know someone is bound to say "it's not a 1v1 class. You roaming with another class destroys people! It does. But it has nothing to do with CWs and everything to do with prones. 2 of anything with prones destroys people =/
So why take us? Which party would you rather fight?
1- GWF, DC, GF, CW, TR
2- 2 GWF, HR, DC, TR
When we look at it this way we can clearly see what is OP and what is UP =/ it's a shame, but it's the truth.
Actually, this also depends on YOUR team comp. If you have a cw or 2 who know what theyre doing(throwing support cc, letting the tanks tank), I would actually find team 1( GWF, DC, GF, CW, TR) harder than team 2(2 GWF, HR, DC, TR).
Here's why: CW if left alone are more annoying than most other classes. In 1v1 situations, theyre in a bad place right now. But this is 5v5(or 20v20 in gauntlgrym) pvp fighting. Yes, any class left alone is annoying, but a control wizard with his buddy tanks tanking for him is an auto win button. They can control their target(s) to the point where the enemy might as well wait for a respawn. It comes down to how the team functions.
In the case of team 1: You already have 2 tanks basically(GWF & GF), a DC to heal/buff/debuff, a TR(most likely a perma) to annoy players/contest nodes), and a CW ready to freeze/stun/prone/choke you if you decide to go after him(leaving the node for the enemy, while their tanks may kick the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your back), or get controlled by him, while dealing with the GF/GWF stunlocking you into oblivion.
In the case of team 2: You now have 3 potential node contesters(GWF/GF/TR), a DC to heal/buff/debuff, and an HR to ping you(if mostly archery), or melee you(mostly melee). What you don't have is someone trying a cc rotation to pretty much ensure those melee fighters get to toy with you.
Too many people put too much in 1v1 fights... This is 5v5 and 20v20 pvp. You will most likely have to stare down multiple opponents. That's why CWs get targeted, for example. Not so much cuz theyre an easy fight, but in a better coordinated team, they are capable of much more than people are whining about. Not saying theyre up there in the pvp pecking order, just people forget that the domination gametype isn't about 1v1 duels. Its about 5v5 and 20v20 mass battles over node contesting, if coordinated. Good tank in the party, CW shouldn't be contesting the node anyway, the tanks are the frontline defense, while squishies do their work from the rear.
PVP doesn't always go the way you want. But if I was playing premade versus premade, or pug versus pug, id fight team 2 before id fight team 1. Premade versus pug, team lineups usually don't even matter. Roflstomp...
I don't know what to say.. So Im just going to guess that you dont play high end PvP very much?
Also, being annoying doesn't win high end matches.. the players are too smart to get mad at you.
Im sorry, are you asking if Im in a pvp guild, or what? So im guessing you play NOTHING EXCEPT high end PVP?(I didn't know that there was an individual queue for high end pvp in there, man the devs got to work fast on that!)
Also, even a weak cw player knows how to fling cc... theres no other class NOT built for that single purpose. This topic wasn't about high end pvp, but pvp for cws in general. Don't like all of their pvp issues/opinions getting factored in, start a thread called quote "Control" Wizard Gripe in HIGH END PVP" endquote.
P.S. its more about being controlled while a fighter's whacking at you, didn't know that a person with pvp IN THEIR HANDLE wouldn't know that an immobile target is much easier to kill than a flighty one
What happens in high end PvP shows how the classes are balanced when everyone plays the character correctly and all that is left is the math. It is the closest we can get to a true representation of how the classes perform in both 1v1 and team situations.
Oh! One more thing though, I am certain you don't know this but when you queue with 5 people with basically maxxed out ELO scores... You fight a lot of premades.. Nothing but high end? no.. but everything else I get into is a 7min pug stomp the doesn't even require me paying attention.. so basically, yes. All high end lol.
Also, I am going to walk away knowing that ragefest confirmed by beliefs
GWF damage has been addressed in Mod 3 so there is no point in even mentioning this class in regards to CW balance until we see how the changes pan out. Same thing goes for HR.
What I don't see in Mod 3 is my Shard being fixed and my ArmPen being fixed. That's what I'm concerned about. I honestly don't feel entitled to ask for any buffs beyond these two things, which are really just fixes. If I were going to ask, iliveforpvp reminds me that we DEFINITELY need some better access to Deflect!
Putting Deflect Chance on CONSTITUTION would be a welcomed change. Also, stop giving us Defense on every PvP set and Deflect on none of them.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
What happens in normal pvp shows the randomness of fights/team comps/disparity of class setups. It IS the closest representation of how the classes perform in any and all situations.
Also, I am certain you haven't pvp'ed enough to understand this, but any person with any amount of experience in pvp knows that the majority of pvp isn't premade. You fight guilds, you fight randoms, you fight pugs and premades... but your chances of fighting the same group twice in a pvp queue(especially during the event hour) are slim to none. And the ELO scores are still bugged(once again, surprised someone with your handle doesn't know this). And high end pvp would mean that youre a premade most likely fighting a premade(once again, a misunderstanding about your experience, or lack thereof... my bad). So basically, yes. Almost all pug.
Also, you began your insulting when a nice, neat opinion was stated, just because they have different situations/encounters than you, so YOU confirmed my thoughts on your sad attempt to cause me to rage. Sorry you failed, and have a nice day
P.S. heres a word of advice: don't want to get insulted, don't insult. "Treat others as you yourself want to be treated"
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
I didn't trainwreck the topic, if you look at the past post. I put down a valid opinion of a generalized pvp player, and he tried to rage me by immediately going insult mode. Not my fault he started a fire he couldn't put out. If you want the topic back on topic, fine. I think the rager's gone.
Also, this is about CW issues in pvp. Were you not going offtopic yourself by talking about GWFs in a CW pvp thread?