Creating logic puzzles

hodiel · April 2014

Hi
I'm trying to create some logic problems in a campaign, but I'm having problems working out how to make them happen.

Example- The puzzle is working out in which order four gemstones have to be placed, and the correct solution will conclude the quest.
How do I make this happen? An NPC has a scroll with the clues which they can read out, but how do I make it so that the player can pick any of three options, but only one is correct, without using the quest failure box in the Advanced Dialogue Editor (as that will show which is the correct option)?
I thought of making each option an item to be picked up, but then players could just pick all of them up and then interact with the altar, meaning they won't have to solve the puzzle.

I've created a couple of other quests, but they were very simple grinders while I got the hang of the basics. This is my first attempt at anything more complex, and I'm stuck (since I'm not sure what is and isn't possible).
Any advice or suggestions very much appreciated.

angrysprite · April 2014

I use logic puzzles in my first and (four of them) in my second quests. But the type I use are written and can be handled in dialog. I fyou are planning to do a physical puzzle then it may take a lot of work, but it can be done. I t means you have to create four copies of each object, and use the appear/disappear option to make it work. The problem is if the player gets it wrong, how do you start it over?

The problem with physical puzzles like the type you;re speaking of is that the player gets one chance, because once an item is interacted with, that's it. no more (unless it is omitted from the storyboard). The issue is that there is no way to animate or move items at will.

If you can find a way to present to puzzle through text dialogues, then you'll have a lot more control over it.

If you want to see how I did my logic puzzles play the second quest in my campaign (Black Keep). Get to the top of the mountain and into the keep proper. You will be faced with three logic riddles of varying difficulty. Though I have them set to only go once: if you get it right then you move on. If you get it wrong then you face combat. (This to placate the players who dislike puzzles and just want to pew pew).

hodiel · April 2014

I'm trying to do it through dialogue, but I can't quite work out how to make the correct response lead to success while the others don't- or result in more combat. I saw that bit- the more combat- mentioned in other threads, and am not quite sure how to do that.... I'm going to try your quest now, see what happens on screen, and try to work it out from there. Probably coming back with more questions... :-s
I feel like I'm running smack into the side of a learning curve here! But I figure that once I've seen what other people have done, I'll have a better idea of what I can do with the game.
Thanks for your response!

sandukutupu · April 2014

Hi, I did a trial with questions and answers in my Star Trek mission "The Rights of the Many". An incorrect answer sends the player off the "correct path" and they end up looping back to the beginning. Basically I made the correct path first and gave the player many choices that were incorrect but didn't change the series of questioning. I thought the players would like it but I got a lot of complaints. I even gave them a clue that when your adversary looked confident you choice was wrong, when he was worried or nervous you made the right choice. Even though the players didn't care for the trial Q&A session, I still enjoyed making it for them. In the end, with as little as 5 questions you will have a large dialog matrix.

Have Fun!!

eldarth · April 2014

Take a look at the Advanced Foundry Topics in my signature -- might help with some ideas of how to workaround some things.

melinden · April 2014

You can add "punishment combat" with Appear When / Dialogue Prompt on your Encounters. The problem with logic puzzles is that you are putting multiple copies of items on top of one another. When you are in the building phase labeling them "Green Gem 1" "Green Gem 2" and so on will help with your sanity. Of course you need to remember to remove that label before you publish.

I use these kinds of puzzles in my quests. If you play Secret of the Mere of Dead Men the logic puzzle is right at the beginning. In Return to the Clock Makers' Tomb it is in the middle. If you get things wrong you will have to fight.

angrysprite · April 2014

hodiel wrote: »

I'm trying to do it through dialogue, but I can't quite work out how to make the correct response lead to success while the others don't- or result in more combat. I saw that bit- the more combat- mentioned in other threads, and am not quite sure how to do that.... I'm going to try your quest now, see what happens on screen, and try to work it out from there. Probably coming back with more questions... :-s
I feel like I'm running smack into the side of a learning curve here! But I figure that once I've seen what other people have done, I'll have a better idea of what I can do with the game.
Thanks for your response!

Wait... I'm focussing on this part of your quote:

I can't quite work out how to make the correct response lead to success while the others don't

I apologize if I insult your intellect, but it sounds like the difficulty you're having is actually really simple. Do you know how to (and are you aware of) thread branching and looping in dialogs? I know this sounds really simple to many who have used the Foundry for a long time, but it's not so intuitive: the small arrow at the bottom of each dialog box can point to an entirely different dialog box.

When you are in the dialog editor there are a couple obvious things: you can have multiple answers to each dialog, which creates different branches as you move downward. Under each dialog is that small arrow that points down to the next dialog. Use your mouse to grab that small arrow (it's tiny, so not as easy as it could be) and drag that arrow to point to another dialog anywhere else in the entire dialog tree.

Example:

..............................Start Dialog
.....Dialog 1...............Dialog 2..............Dialog 3
.....Dialog 1a..............Dialog 2a............Dialog 3a
.....Success................Fail..........[arrow points to Dialog 1a]

So in this example, if I gave answer 3 and move to dialog 3, then dialog 3a my next dialog would be Dialog 1a. In the foundry dialog tree the small end cap at the bottom of that dialog path would name "Dialog 1a" rather than "success" or Fail.

I apologize if you already know about this dialog redirect arrow, but this is what it sounds like based on your statement above.

reiwulf · April 2014

With dialogue it's much easier, doing it with items, would be pretty difficult.
You could fake it though, make the stones only appear after you've placed them all correctly.

hodiel · April 2014

To all- Thank you for your responses, I really appreciate them and they are all useful- you've given me some great stuff to consider and try.
Angrysprite specifically- No insult is taken or perceived. I am very new to this and my previous foundries did not involve much in the way of detail in dialogue trees, so this sort of insight and advice is happily received! I didn't know about the dialogue redirect arrow before, I shall try things with that and the other suggestions elsewhere on the thread.
Thank you all again. :-)

angrysprite · April 2014

hodiel wrote: »

To all- Thank you for your responses, I really appreciate them and they are all useful- you've given me some great stuff to consider and try.
Angrysprite specifically- No insult is taken or perceived. I am very new to this and my previous foundries did not involve much in the way of detail in dialogue trees, so this sort of insight and advice is happily received! I didn't know about the dialogue redirect arrow before, I shall try things with that and the other suggestions elsewhere on the thread.
Thank you all again. :-)

You know, I just had a gut feeling. I used to teach computer skills to 6 year-olds through young adults a few years ago, and one thing I learned was that even the smallest things that we think of as "obvious" really aren't, especially for newcomers!

Okay, so now you know about the dialog redirect arrow - THIS is how I (and likely most others) created dialog-based puzzles. So a simple dialog with a redirect might be:

Main: "What will you do with the powerfully magical artifact you now have in your possession?"
Resp 1a: "I will destroy it! - goes to next dialog (1b) "Hurray for you, adventurer!" [Continue] (closes dialog) = SUCCESS
Resp 2a: "I will wield the power for myself!" - goes to next dialog:

Main 2: "Are you really sure you want to do that?
Resp 1: "Well, not really, I change my mind, I'll destroy it! - goes to (1b) - SUCCESS
Resp 2: "Yesssss! I am sure! I want to rule the world! - go to next dialog:

Main 3: "Okay, but you must prove yourself first! [Continue] (closes dialog) {FAIL} (FAIL Message: Defend yourself!")

{Spawn a bazillion really nasty hard encounters all around the player: Trigger "When Dialog reached" (Main 3)

Using those little arrows at the bottom of each dialog allows you to create rather complex dialog trees with many branches. Making the one response a "FAIL" in my example allows the player to start over if they survive the mob onslaught (or after they recover at campfire).

I can feel the gears turning wildly in your mind right now, just thinking up all the possibilities!

Creating logic puzzles

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