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Fighting Tough Nut HR
wh0
Member Posts: 64 Arc User
Well, any faster and effective way? potb and DF is common approach but if we go for defence build it will take **** long....:rolleyes:
HR most are pure combat defensive build with emblem. Hard to even get the hp down, also i realized that our DF can be stopped by intercepting shot daily even if it's in the third strike. Bug?
HR most are pure combat defensive build with emblem. Hard to even get the hp down, also i realized that our DF can be stopped by intercepting shot daily even if it's in the third strike. Bug?
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To kill them, I use Gloaming Cut to tear them chunk from chunk. It's a slow process but it allows me to quickly reposition myself to safety in Stealth as compared to winding up DF which is a slow process. Gloaming Cut only takes a second, and it hits as hard as an entire rotation of DF without the Bleeds being factored. Cons is that it doesn't hit as much as DF, so Bilethorn is not effective for Gloaming Cut. Vorpal all the way with GC. If it crits, it hits as hard as Lashing Blade with Vorpal.
HR's are dangerous opponents and it's an absolute must to play carefully against them. It doesn't matter if the process is slow as long as you come out victorious.
stalk them, be the hunter yourself, observe the pattern of his attacks then make your strategy based on his cooldowns, you either get the marauder, boar, fox hunter, the marauder, thornward, fox shift hunter or the marauder, (hindering or constricting) and fox shift. those are really common setups.
good luck
It's also one reason I made a new combat HR today :P
(1) is mostly about how melee classes have it very difficult to press on the attack even when they are able to close in against a ranged. The problem is the merciless self-root with all skills/powers in NW. When the conditions are the same, it simply means the initial advantage of range over melee is more difficult to offset. Due to survival issues as well as emphasis in stealth most MI rogues slot ITC, SS, CoS and DF with one more encounter as optional attack according to preference.
* DF is very hard to land against a HR that is constantly moving, even in stealth.
* CoS has limited charges and DPS potential once initial volley is spent and waiting on recharge.
* ITC and SS are utilities.
That leaves just one encounter readily avilable to use, and even if you succeed in landing that one attack, the attack stops there. A shot of Constricting Arrow and usually the tables are turned.
* LB has the largest damaging potential, but it is also an all-or-nothing type of attack. If it misses, or is dodged, then for the next 20+ seconds you have no major attacks to use against
* Dazing Strike has slow activation and limited range, easily evaded and interrupted. Against the HR which moves so often it is difficult to land it even if you use it in stealth.
* Impact Shot is nerfed in damage, and also has limited charges
* Blitz is way too weak in damage to use in PvP, Wicked Reminder is a support tool
* PotB is overly hyped and loses efficienct drastically when there are mutlipe combatants/targets around.
...and even if you land the above and do big damage, next comes immediate retaliation through Constricting Arrow, an application of Grasping Roots will make it even worse. Even if you are not retaliated, you have no tools to press on the attack even if you have made it to the HR.
(2) is usually how the retaliation begins. It is a ranged CC, one of the fastest activation powers in the game, repeatedly incapacitates you in small intervals which is a lot more dangerous than the HRs claim. Everyone knows what it feels like to lose 2~3 seconds with your rotations as your SS activation is constantly disrupted by the repeating CCs.
(3) is what a confident HR does if he suspects a stealthed TR nearby, can be spammed constantly until it tracks and connects, which will knock chunks off your stealth meter.
In a sesne, the combat HR is practically a living, breathing counter to a MI-based, stealth-oriented TR. Its one of the reasons why I found it much easier and reliable to handle it with my WK build, which can basically counter-counter all of the points made above:
(1) VP-Dazing strike stun+daze combos used to give you very high chance of landing a hit, even against moving HRs.
(2) Use Dazing Strike allowed you to press on the attack for extra damage, as well as prevented the immediate retaliation
(3) If the HR gained range, you could immediately go back in melee range to pressure the HR out of the attack and force him to move and use up more dodges (which, then you could VP right back into melee range and push him again). If he refused to move and would stand up to you with attacks like Fox's Shift, then a juicy target for Dazing Strike.
(4) In stealth, you could initiate the combo outside the HR's melee attack range, avoiding beng hit by it and knocked out of stealth.
(5) Disheartening Strike can amount upto much heavier damage than CoS, and can be repeated indefinately - albeit as a DoT.
...
Ofcourse, since VP is dead now, doesn't work anymore. You could land ONE combo and go back into stealth, but the VP recharge is around 1.5 times longer than the stealth duration. The attack cannot be pressed on, and the whole point of WK TRs against HRs was that you could keep pressuring them and denying them range .
Such a pity.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i like deft strike as an anti-hunter encounter and has uses against every other class as well. it breaks roots and can instantly waste multiples of a hunter's dodges. with decent recovery, it gives u near constant immunity from roots with ITC.
still, it's a tough fight to actually stay on top of some hunters.
Well, HR are the strongest class now due to its mobility, dps and utility. Even GWF cant hold a candle against a HR now. I could literately drain down a GWF so much faster than a HR. In summary, offensive TR don't stand a chance, defensive TR will lose eventually. Gloaming cut may be a good approach but we have too little efficient encounters to follow up after the impact shot nerfed.
Overall, TR cant press on as hard to bring down a HR for now considering we may need to try harder tactically while they just preyed on us.. pity......
itc,deft strike, dazing strike
also try to use courage breaker you will be surprised as to how effective it is not only you do damage to target, u also make them immobilized for a few seconds. that should give u enough time either run away or continue dps them
very effective against powerful cws and gwf too.
It is a uphill battle no matter you win or not.
I almost think Cryptic design HR in order to counter TR when HR first came. Even if a HR can't kill you he can kite you forever if he wants to. The only way you can get him most of the time is through our OP SE. Again that is why recovery so good on TRs...
I'm the usual SS/ITC Executioner TR, using DF and CoS with a lesser bilethorn.
My opponent was using Split the Sky, Thorn Ward, and Fox shift. I'm not sure what his gear was like, but I don't think it's super relevant. We were at my home node. He would repeatedly use Thorn ward and Split the Sky in order to cover the node, which was red at the time, to keep me off it. Whenever I used SS, he would tail me and fox shift soon after, hoping to catch me in stealth. While I was in stealth, he would just keep dodging around forever. Initially I was using LB, but after missing 3 times, I switched to BaS, to take advantage of the free hits to build AP. Needless to say, the fight was taking forever. He would only attack with those encounters, never used an at will, and would dodge otherwise. I tried to keep stealth up as long as possible, while building AP in the hopes of SEing him a couple times to kill him. Well, after 2 non crit SEs, his teammates came and finished me off. I was near death anyway, and he was around half health.
From the battle, it seemed to me he was prioritizing keeping me off the node, rather than killing me, and was depending on thorn ward and split the sky for damage. I also attempted Deft strike, but he would just dodge away a couple times to get out of it.
So basically my question is, what do you do when an HR is using traps to cover the node? This seems to be a problem that's only going to get worse, because as far as I know, those skills are getting buffed in Mod 3. The only skill he was using which is being nerfed in mod 3 is fox shift, but I don't think it would have made much difference if he didn't attack, as he was accomplishing his goal of keeping me off the node without killing me.
Specific questions:
1) Should I switch to PotB? I don't have points in, as I used to hate it, but I could swap it in the next time I respec.
2) Should I focus on more AP generation in order to daily faster? I would get a daily every 30 seconds, but his regen and pots were keeping up.
3) Should I swap out DF for Gloaming cut or Sly flourish? Both are easier to land, and will get me less damage inside the traps.
4) Should I leave him alone and hope for another class to get him? If so, which class? All melee classes should have the same problem as me, leaving DCs and CWs. I can see how CWs would be unaffected by Thorn ward and Split the Sky. Would they be a better option?
5) Does a differently built TR fare better against this type of HR? I'm speaking currently, after the VP nerf.
Some tips and counters.
1. Against an HR, Stealth is your best friend: They have 6 encounters, don't let them blow every single one of them clean on you by being stingy with your Stealth.
2. Fox Shift: Counter this by dodging straight towards the HR. When you see them turning into that black smoke whenever they use Fox Shift and you have a Dodge ready, run towards them and let the Dodge's immunity frames soak up the 4 hits of Fox Shift while you walk out of it relatively unscathed. Sometimes Master of Combat will proc and deal full damage against you but it only has a 17% chance of proc-ing.
3. Split the Sky: If it's covering the entire node, you have 2 choices; don't attack while it's up and wait, or attack outside of the STS red zone via CoS. This means you have to step out of the node for a bit and blow your 8 charges then get back in to contest.
4. Thorn Ward: This one's a little tougher because it almost always attacks you even if you place a BaS dummy in the same zone unlike PotB where it would have equal chances of attacking you and the dummy. Just soak this, no choice. ITC's there when things get too hairy.
5. Tenacious Concealment: Have this slotted against them. They can drain Stealth quickly without this CF.
So far I haven't had much trouble against HR's with a BaS/SS/ITC, GC/CoS rotation. I let my At-Wills do the DPS and my Dailies to do the killing.
Don't slot Deft Strike for PVP. It's an 11 second minimal utility encounter that serves only as a good escape method. DPS is not impressive, as well as its effects for PVP.
For Path of the Blades, I'm not so sure. I don't like this encounter and never attempted to slot it, but I'm imagining it'll just give you trouble when you are in a node with STS up, and the PoB keeps hitting the HR. It's pretty much suicide.
I tried using CoS, but it would result in a bunch of 0s on the HR. I'm assuming this meant barkshield enchant and aspect of the lone wolf.
I've been thinking about it, and now I'm fairly sure that DF was the problem. Yes, DF synergies with bilethorn well, but it also synergies with HRs set bonus, as well as Fey Thistle. swapping out to a harder hitting skill with less hits would give the opponent less chances to heal, along with less chances to reflect damage. The Bilethorn benefits given by DF are also much lower, since unlike TRs or GFs, later bilethorn ticks don't really hurt their play style.
As for Tenacious Concealment, I wasn't really having trouble staying in stealth, and even out of it, my opponent would prioritize dodging than attacking so he wasn't doing much damage with his attacks. It was the area denial that was hurting me the most. I'll see how it goes when I eat the thorn ward and split the sky hits, and decide then whether to slot it.
They have all the Dodges and Range Damage... and we got Stealth, CoS /Bilethorn/ItC / Duelist Flurry/SE
This is what I do...
Always try to get the jump on them...if they got it on u... stealth and reposition. Go hide, take a potion,
Come back to the fight , stealth and CoS/Bile them, keep the pressure up... use Bait n Switch so u can get some
more stealth, some AP when u use the Smoke Copy of u as shield, and keep pressuring them....
They get near, try to Duelist Flurry them...if they stay to eat it, ItC and go all melee on him...they run again
keep following him with 1 dagger at a time... always after him in stealth from a distance...if youre doin it right
he will run to get a potion and reposition...this is when u got to be REALLY AGRESIVE, leave the node....and stalk him
with a dagger a a time ...this is your only chance to kill him so go for it, don't let him get away ... cause hell come back
and eat ya, full hp and stuff...
Remember if hes not capping node hes prioritizing living over capping node so u should too prioritice killing over capping...
and ur prey is getting away...so follow, 1 dagger + bile at a time...Bile will whittle his hp as much as possible and if u keep
the pressure up long enough your Daily may come up, so get as closer as u can and use it from stealth if possible...another outcome may be he got killed by another mate of yours whiles hes running away... and another outcome may be ... some friends of him got in ur way... and he got away...
then I suggest you reposition and start over.
Nah im joking... but at least for me... more kills its better even if it nets u a lose...cause really its a team job...if your carrying ur team ...theyre not even good enough to win so....if they kill as much as u do....usually the enemy team ends up running or staying in base.
If its Pre-made... well there u should play with Mic and TS and stuff and u should try to hold point as much as u can and call for back up
in the Worst Case Scenarios...before u go down fighting the Node.
U get my meaning right.
INVEST IN DARKS 7,8 or as high as u can...for your utilitys Slots.
For a TR is ULTRA MANDATORY.
Remember more Mobility lets u run like crazy in Stealth, more Mobility = EASY LANDED MORE DUELIST FLURRY.= MORE STALKING = MORE KILLS
also thanks for the tactics advice, happy hunting!
My best advice is create an HR and learn it's strengths.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere