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Ways to beat perma stealth TRs
millertime197933
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
I have played a TR since closed beta and it is my favorite class. I have seen it nerfed into the ground over the past year or so due to people complaining about how overpowering it is. First off, the class that is supposed to be the best single target dps is going to have an inherent advantage in pvp. Especially when that damage is burst damage. That has largely been nerfed since, so now we are left with stealth. This is truly an issue where other classes just need to learn to play. Here are ways to counter TRs in stealth by class:
1. CW-Use steal time, icy terrain, or any of your dailies. Can also use COI if you get it before they stealth up. Even with tenacious concealment, stealth is gonna get broken.
2. GWF- Use slam. Frontline surge is also viable if you generally know where they are. Instead of trying to use takedown, just chase the rogue around and follow the glow of his weapon. You can keep up with your speed. Stop trying to prone the rogue because if he is face tanking you, then he has impossible to catch running and is immune to it.
3. GF-Villians menace, enforced threat, and frontline surge. This class is most vulnerable to stealth TRs, however with block, they are gonna have to face tank you eventually as you can block any ranged attacks.
4. HR-Split shot the bait and switch dummy, many of your hits will land on the actual TR. Thorn strike and split the sky will also own the TR. HRs also dodge like crazy so it is hard to consistently hit them. Stay mobile.
5. TR-fight fire with fire. Path of blades and whirlwind strike along with your bilethorn=balanced fight. Path of blades is a real pain to stay in stealth around, especially if its just 1v1.
6. DC-sunburst and chains of blazing light. Also any DoT encounters or brand of the sun if you have it prior to the rogue going into stealth will eventually break it. Burning radiance boon from dread ring is also a stealth breaker if you have a friendly around you to heal (hallowed ground if feated has a massive area), or astral shield.
Bottom line is use your AoEs folks. Even when using tenacious concealment, taking any damage will cause them to break stealth early and really mess up their rotation on keeping it up. When you start a match just look at the classes you are up against and set your loadout up accordingly. Don't want to change your loadout? Then quit crying about TRs being overpowered. If they have a high kill count it isnt because they are awesome at PVP, it is because they did a burst dps on a soft class that was already hurt. All stealth lets you do is weave around and find that easy target which is of course a main class feature. TRs are in such a bad way in PVE due to PVP nerfs that even at 15k GS I can't even get a group unless it is with my guild. Even then I beat the DC and GF in DPS and am well behind the others. CWs, HRs, and some GWFs are even better at single target dps so the class doesn't need more nerfing. Also, ELO or not, there is still a gear disparity, or maybe you make bad choices in gear selection. But a class loaded out with perfect enchants, rank 10s, best in slot gear, and someone who actually uses the PVP healing potions is gonna beat you if you aren't equally equipped/committed to gearing your toon towards PVP specifically.
Please no more nerfs and don't think it is common to solo epic dungeons with TRs. I know there are some that do it, but there are also people that duo dracolich legitimately. That doesn't mean nerf them. Soloing those dungeons isn't as easy as just staying in stealth either. Many bosses see through stealth, and the ones that don't will still fire off AoEs that cause your stealth to break. Soloing is more the exception than the rule and the general TR community shouldn't be nerfed because someone who is decked out can challenge themselves and do those dungeons. I have rank 8s, best in slot weapons/gear, perfect enchants, and my choice companions and still can only solo parts of some of the epic dungeons, not even close to the whole thing. Even if I could, it would take me hours upon hours to complete.
1. CW-Use steal time, icy terrain, or any of your dailies. Can also use COI if you get it before they stealth up. Even with tenacious concealment, stealth is gonna get broken.
2. GWF- Use slam. Frontline surge is also viable if you generally know where they are. Instead of trying to use takedown, just chase the rogue around and follow the glow of his weapon. You can keep up with your speed. Stop trying to prone the rogue because if he is face tanking you, then he has impossible to catch running and is immune to it.
3. GF-Villians menace, enforced threat, and frontline surge. This class is most vulnerable to stealth TRs, however with block, they are gonna have to face tank you eventually as you can block any ranged attacks.
4. HR-Split shot the bait and switch dummy, many of your hits will land on the actual TR. Thorn strike and split the sky will also own the TR. HRs also dodge like crazy so it is hard to consistently hit them. Stay mobile.
5. TR-fight fire with fire. Path of blades and whirlwind strike along with your bilethorn=balanced fight. Path of blades is a real pain to stay in stealth around, especially if its just 1v1.
6. DC-sunburst and chains of blazing light. Also any DoT encounters or brand of the sun if you have it prior to the rogue going into stealth will eventually break it. Burning radiance boon from dread ring is also a stealth breaker if you have a friendly around you to heal (hallowed ground if feated has a massive area), or astral shield.
Bottom line is use your AoEs folks. Even when using tenacious concealment, taking any damage will cause them to break stealth early and really mess up their rotation on keeping it up. When you start a match just look at the classes you are up against and set your loadout up accordingly. Don't want to change your loadout? Then quit crying about TRs being overpowered. If they have a high kill count it isnt because they are awesome at PVP, it is because they did a burst dps on a soft class that was already hurt. All stealth lets you do is weave around and find that easy target which is of course a main class feature. TRs are in such a bad way in PVE due to PVP nerfs that even at 15k GS I can't even get a group unless it is with my guild. Even then I beat the DC and GF in DPS and am well behind the others. CWs, HRs, and some GWFs are even better at single target dps so the class doesn't need more nerfing. Also, ELO or not, there is still a gear disparity, or maybe you make bad choices in gear selection. But a class loaded out with perfect enchants, rank 10s, best in slot gear, and someone who actually uses the PVP healing potions is gonna beat you if you aren't equally equipped/committed to gearing your toon towards PVP specifically.
Please no more nerfs and don't think it is common to solo epic dungeons with TRs. I know there are some that do it, but there are also people that duo dracolich legitimately. That doesn't mean nerf them. Soloing those dungeons isn't as easy as just staying in stealth either. Many bosses see through stealth, and the ones that don't will still fire off AoEs that cause your stealth to break. Soloing is more the exception than the rule and the general TR community shouldn't be nerfed because someone who is decked out can challenge themselves and do those dungeons. I have rank 8s, best in slot weapons/gear, perfect enchants, and my choice companions and still can only solo parts of some of the epic dungeons, not even close to the whole thing. Even if I could, it would take me hours upon hours to complete.
Post edited by millertime197933 on
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These abilities suck against anyone else, and they're not all that helpful against a perma-rogue anyway.
CW needs full loadout of mostly single-target DPS spells to be effective in PVP.
Only thing halfway decent is the daily oppressive force, but 1. it's a daily, and 2. it only lets you actually attack them- they can fairly easily recover and then you're back to being helpless.
I am not happy that my class is going to be nerfed again, and then probably another 3 times after that, but there is no use complaining about it more than we already have. In fact the last thread is still here on the 1st page (13 threads below this) at time of posting.
you speak the truth..
no more nerfs period!
leave game as it is and add new content .. leave old alone
Although like some others said, stealth is probably getting a nerf in the future.
I also have a CW and steal time is always up because it is excellent in PVP if you get used to using it. I actually find CW the most powerful in PVP nowadays but that is partly because mine is pretty decked out. Keep in mind steal time stacks high vizier debuffs too. If you cast it immediately after teleporting into a crowd, you'll get it off. There seems to be a latency where you still "dodge" things for a second or so after your teleport. I'm just saying, if permastealth is giving your problems, look at your skills. You would dump entangling force if the other team had x3 GWFS and x2 TRs in the group would you not? If not, learn to play cuz you would be making a bad choice! There is no loadout that is effective for all opponent classes. Hell if the other team has one or two rogues that heavily use path of blades, I abandon the stealth idea and loadup my dps skills like lashing blade. Hit x when the match starts to see what you are up against, and load up the things you think will counter the other team the best. But dont come on here and cry about a class being overpowered.
We have 3 dodges before stamina runs out. That's a lot?
You obviously don't play CW a lot or something which explains why you think steal time is good in PVP.
I'm not saying steal time is great for everyone, but when I play CW in PVP, i focus on AoE Dps to max HV stacks and weaken everyone. Not all classes can break CC instantly so those dazes really hurt HRs and DCs. It's a group fight after all. Casting it will break any TRs stealth in the area too as the wind up counts as multiple hits. Try hitting oppressive force and then immediately cast steal time in the middle of a crowd. Everyone is at half life or less with max HV stacks on them.
No no, miller is right. Next PVP fight, I will use Steal Time. In Spell Mastery. Also. Maelstrom.
Steal Time and Icy Terrain suck really hard at 5v5.
And if I use Oppressive Force you can just ITC or gtfo w/o dying (and even return with all the powers out of CD).
Oh look, here's a TR circling around me on this node, I can tell because the color is changing. Okay so I manage to kill it barely using Steal Time and Icy Terrain and Oppressive Force. Great. Oh wait, now here comes the GWF charging at me to try to retake the node. Please, wait Mr. GWF, I have to change out all of my encounters! And even if I manage to kill the GWF, the TR is back and I have to change out all of my encounters *again*, on the fly...
Do people really do this? Change out encounters in the middle of battles?
You misundestand the entire point: Many people actually know how to find/hurt/adapt to permstealth TRs. But they simply do not want it, because they want you to use your skills instead of running around in stealth all the time, avoiding a fight, spamming some knifes here and there and preventing a node from capping by using easy mode.
And honestly, there is already a 50 page thread about that matter, why do you even start a new thread? Perhaps a moderator can merge this thread or close it.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
compared to the TR's 2 it actually is....
As I keep stating, you can't have a loudout for everyone, and having other classes nerfed to suit YOUR comfort and laziness for not wanting to adjust is not a reason to nerf a class. You also assume that you are alone on your team. What you contribute is up to you. When playing a CW, for me, I don't care about kill count or being first place, I care about getting a win so I am perfectly content with debuffing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everyone and substantially weakening the enemy force because that is the role I choose to be in and my team wins more than loses so for me it is effective. It isn't like I'm not doing dps anyways, I probably do more overall with the way I play although it results in less personal kills and a ton of assists.
The point that you are missing is that every class has skills to counter stealth. Some classes are better against some than others. CWs own HRs. TRs are really good against GWFS and GFs if they use duelist flurry and a perfect bilethorne. If the other team has a TR that is giving you problems because of stealth, then change your loadout. If the other team has a GWF that is giving you problems, then adjust for that. Its your choice what niche you want. But don't say that TRs need to be nerfed because you don't want to be adaptable. HRs dodge a lot. It is annoying. But there is a counter to it. Because there is, then there is no need to nerf. See my point?
He meant expecially in the heat of a battle - because no one is doing that (cooldowns).
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
You are not Pointsman. If you would read what he said, he doenst mean that you change it at the fire, but when you are fighting various classes in overlapping time periods. This makes your suggestion to slot full AoE spells not realistic, since you dont fight only the TR. At best you can change one or two abilities at the fire IMO. Still it would give you alot disadvantage against the other classes. In the end you run around to find him and put a CC on him as soon as possible.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
May I politely add the Lantern of Revelation as well? It finds, debuffs and damages the TR
Quoted for TRUTH!
2. GWF You can kill average one easy, good ones may take sometime but you will get them eventually if their shocking didn't crit like a ***** on you. There are some god tier TR up there you just won't beat because that is the way it is.
3. GF you will die, I am sorry but you will die.
4. HR gratz if you are skilled/geared you can make TR cry. No TR wants to sign up to fight a good HR, it is just a pain.
5. TR well the better TR wins simple.
6. DC If you are good you can stalemate forever until you get hit by a flurry and then chained by a big *** crit shocking.
Basically in 1 v 1 those perma build or semi-perma build TR are simply god tier thanks to shocking. They can shocking you when you are at 60%, and you can actually die from it if that crits. Even if it doesn't good luck fighting with whatever health you have left. It is only a matter of time till you get killed.
Ok, I knocked him down, but with 35%+ deflect and 28k+ HP I will barely do any damage, even if I crit. Even if I managed to hit him for 28k+ damage with 3 encounters+daily, soulforged will resurrect him and he will run away no matter what I will try to do.
Ok, I landed my combo, dealt some nice damage which was enough to brought the TR below 50% health. He won't leave this node, he will hide behind the column making you think that he ran to a pot. Then, after regening some HP back he will return to the node.
Hit his dummy with Split Shot - the best advise so far. Ever. Everyone, go attack dummy, better if you do it with high damaging critical hits.
Also, Shocking Execution. You can't win a duel even if you're extremely good. The only one who can counter this is GWF with Avalanche of Steel and split-second reaction.
UPD. The only thing that can effectively counter perma-stealth - Fox Shift. It targets TR in stealth, and you just have to spam it to catch him. But still, it gets countered by dummy. And you may say good bye to that after Module 3 goes live.
I love how pretty much every example you used here depends on the TR landing a daily attack. regardless of the fact that people stating CW's should use a daily is dumb because it is a daily and the fact that TR's have the slowest building daily meter out of any class....
And the fact your still talking about 1 vs 1 which is not what Neverwinter PVP is about.
If you even think TR has the slowest Daily building rate then you are a fool. Or math prove it don't just make claim like this when it is so clearly wrong.
When a 1 v 1 happen being able to win the trade gives pressure to the other team. And if no one in your team can 1 v 1 certain someone on the enemy team then they can use that person to keep making you to bleed point since whoever you send there would die, which force you to rotate and eventually make you lose pressure on the other place of the map.
The reason I stress on SE is because it is broken atm. A shocking if crit can completely change the fight. I can be a Nuub TR but when fighting another TR: If I land a flurry on you and you take 1 cycle of Path Of The Blade, then I SE. You could instantly die regardless of your skill/gear. It allows player to instantly kill another player who might be far more skilled/geared.
Neverwinter PVP is about rotation. But 1v1 plays a big part in it too. Let me put it this way: when both team are just as good as each other in rotation, what would determine the fight?
Good CWs have basically infinite amount of dodges due to stamina regenerating and their timing.