And they seem like they will add some more semi meh buffs to the group in pve (something the hr didnt need tbh) and are abysmally bad in pvp.
Ambush/bear trap. a stealth you cant move in, or channel in or you get revealed (you get an extra 2k-ish dmg on your next ability from the ambush)
The bear trap did 2k ish dmg and stunned in a small aoe.
The new encounter does mediocre damage and buffs allies dmg on the target like a mark. Weak for pvp
The new daily does 2500 dmg and your alies restore stam when they hit your target, again, useless in pvp.
The class features could work on a defensive build but lets face it, HRs dont need more defense in the upcoming patch. 1 feature gives 300 regen for 4 sec when hit, the other gives 6% run and 3% deflect when using a daily.
These are really bad for us pvp HR's, please voice your dissatisfaction if you agree with me, feel free to argue otherwise if you don't. I'd love to see a viable pvp build in here somewhere that matches what we currently have, but I highly doubt it.
Now, this is only after about 45 min of playing with the abilities, so im sure I could have missed something, but add this with the stormstep nerf, the foxshift HUGE fricken nerf, and the split shot nerf and we've got a completely gutted class thinly disguised with a new terrible paragon path. Stop polishing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and let us keep the class we grew to love. It is not like it is overpowered in any sense of the game as is.
I believe Ambush is bugged since any charging skill would break its stealth.
Bear Trap seems not to get any benefit from Armor Penetration.
Pathfinder's Action feature (which gives running speed + deflect) simply does not work.
Overall, this paragon might work for Nature builds but DPS wise it is very weak, even weaker than Stormwarden.
I ran my HR on test server this whole afternoon and honestly I do not feel like I was playing a Striker class. Aside of Thorn ward and Rain of Arrow, everything else hit like wet noodles. An average of 1.5-2k dmg for all encounters, seriously???
As it stands the HR on test server needs VAST VAST improvements before this should go live. If anyone would like more data, lemme know. Not much to say, 16k gs pvp gear (grim, r9's, 75% boons done, 100/80/70 ranked artifacts), Nothing godly but decent enough.
The at will, hunters teamwork, hits for 1200, when allies strike the marked target for a short while they get some stam, hp, and AP, havent noticed it working yet so I can't say how much they get. Its done weird, the marked targets drop something? then you have to walk over in combat to get the hp/AP/Stam. The melee attack does 500 dmg the next time someone else hits the target, its like a delayed attack etc. The dmg is so low who cares. PS it still builds threat.
Careful attack LOOKED like a decent replacement for clear the ground. However what killed it is the target requirement. What makes CTG so good for melee is we can spam it without target so if there is something we can not seeee there you go. The damage of CA was about roughly the same plus adds some group utility. Which to be honest I could care less about the utility of it. It does not generate any action points what so ever. I am clueless as to why not.
Cruel Recovery. Another ability that looks good on paper if it stacked to some degree. With the PVP debuff we are talking only about .5 percent hit points. This is nothing. .5 (1 percent in PVE) stacking 10 times would be better and not OP in PVP at all. It would be enough to keep us going as a hunter and about it.
Ambush. I can not see a usefulness at all as a melee HR in PVP.
Bear trap. Yeah great another thing to have to aim. If I wanted to aim I would be a ranged HR or Hybird.
Battlehoned. Would be great for PVE not really very useful after PVP nerf. Before the PVP nerf it would have been a great thing to have. Now active mitigation wins out versus regen. So for PVP I would still go with the current lone-wolf.
Pathfinder action. I seen no evidence this is working and other classes get similar buffs (or better) from class actions that are always on rather they use a daily or not. So to make it so that it only works via a daily is kinda dumb.
All in all if they would take away the use of a daily requirement for pathfinder action I would go pathfinder just for the deflect and run speed. As it stands there is a lot of neat toys and a lot of things that look AWESOME on paper but just do not play out very well.
Currently the damage end of HR is just too low on preview. Most classes have a great execute ability like the GWF's IBS or the TR's lashing blade or the CW's anything. We have to be creative on our executes and what we use on an execute and when we found something that works like fox shift to help alleviate the pain it gets taken away.
In short we are the red headed step child and we can not have nice things.
However if the Devs wanted to I really see path finder taking off as the goto for melee HR's with only but a few modifications.
1. Remove daily use requirement for Pathfinder Action. <-- SUPER important. Without removing this requirement there is no way Pathfinder will stack up to Storm.
2. Remove the target requirement for Careful attack. This is the Pathfinders version of Clear the ground it should have the same function. Maybe this is asking a lot of an at will but hey it is what it is. Also why is this not generating action points....
3. Allow temp hit points to stack upto 10. Once again this would make it worth a slot for PVE still not good enough to slot it for PVP.
4. Get rid of Dev's choice Fox shift or Bear trap and give us an execute ability. I give a choice here because let's be honest fox shift is no longer worth it for melee and we need an execute ability badly. They can even remake Fox shift to become a single target nuke that we need. However bear trap is just all around bad. Bad damage and bad mechanic small AOE just nothing good at all about it.
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voldren2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2014
Well... I know it's just a preview but pathfinder atm just sux... honestly I've had great expectations about this paragon path...
Generally speaking all of the new skills are just bad, and what's more important, their analogues from storm warden's path are too much better to even consider choosing a pathfinder over storm warden.
Careful attack does nearly no damage, I tried to wipe group of mobs using both combinations - careful attack+split attack or just careful attack alone. Both were at most just as effective as split attack used alone (if not worse).
Class features didn't amaze me even a bit, the temporary HP bonus is just too low to make a difference (stormstep action is waaay better alone than both of these even combined, I won't even mention about how nice was twin-blade storm).
I wouldn't choose a new daily over disruptive or seismic shot in any case.
Bear trap seems for me to be the only skill worth using, but only in pvp just because of it's stun. But anyway the fact u have to to aim with it, and it's extremely narrow range would force me I guess to use hindering strike over bear trap.
In pvp pathfinder will be easily beaten by a stormwarden's build, in pve he's even more useless (if I'd go to dungeon with this encounter thing that marks enemies and drop some useless traps with such narrow range, I wouldn't do more DMG than a GF with tanky build or cleric and would be kicked from party without a warning )
I just see no damage in the HR tree at all. Before damage came from split shot and fox shift(from a pvp perspective). Every other damage dealing class has a nuke. Honestly, If Fox Shift hits one target, It should have 200-300% damage increase.
It is just not well thought out. Every new ability is clunky, adds no dmg, does not synergize well with any spec outside of some strange utility spec, and adds insult to injury as we are losing our best and only single target nuke (that already had a caveat; cannot be used if enemy is grouped up) and our best class feature, AND our only decent pve at will which still isnt putting is close to on par with the pve gods such as gwf and CW. I really hope our cries are heard and this is seriously looked at.
I've voiced my opinion and gave feed back on the preview forums about these horrid changes. The backlash from the HR players is overwhelming and I sincerely hope the devs are listening and come to an understanding these changes are bad. We didn't need nerfed we needed balanced. Split shot needed a 25% nerf but all other damage encounters and electric shot needed a 25% increase in damage in conjunction or something along those lines, because depending on an at will for 35-50% of pve dps was just plain silly. I honestly can not fathom what they were thinking.....The class as is in mod 3 is not worth playing in either pve or pvp.
If they want Fox Shift to only hit once make it a one hit deal that hits for 4k ish (so people with gear and crit specced for dmg could get their one 8k ability) and give it a bit more casting range. There, no untargetable for 4 hits <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and much moredodgable in pvp.
Storm step action, was already fixed and really doesnt need this nerf, maybe make some other new pathfinder class features better. The one with regen and the other one with deflect and moveespeed should be combined imo, all three stats pop when hit. As is the defl/movespeed buff only working when using a daily is WEAK.
The regen one is ok, but with healing depression needs something else.Maybe lifesteal AND regen? IDK.
Bear trap/ ambush, this has fun potential, make it work. Let us move during the stealth, and make channeled animations not break it. The bear trap needs to be a LOT bigger. I like that it can be placed without a target but its as tiny as rain of arrows if not smaller.
Ive seen cryptic drop nerfs that they realize are too over the top before, like with TR's, but I've also seen them "balance" classes into obscurity for months and months too (DC's, many CoX classes). This is why the forum backlash is harsher here then in some other games. I hope they don't get bothered by our "harsh" delivery system and understand why ppl get bothered as much as we do. Do not let these go live. ty kindly.
I think they will go live personally. I am hoping they don't. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around why they chose rangers to nerf. Has been hard to understand the reasoning besides 'this wasnt in our vision' type answer.
I think it was posted before but for those that have tried the HR changes, here is a link to the Pahtfinder paragon.. I feel there was a disconnect in interpretation...
Pathfinder's Action does work, actually. With it at Rank 3 and the Feat at Rank 5, Disrupting gives me 8.5 seconds of +10% Deflection chance and +18% movement speed. These stats also show in the character sheet while active.
Actually, I think the Deflection side might be bugged. It's only adding 3% per rank instead of 5%.
I suggest adding bonus bleeding dmg to all or most of HR's attacks (perhaps depending on how much HP the target has left). This could make up for the terrible nerfs for this class (really.. why nerf the only good skills HR has? Because most HR's use no other? Well, and doesn't that tell u something about the skills not being used?).
U could also do something about the "Cold steel Hurricane". It's the most useless Daily i've seen among all classes. No dmg output, no CC effect at all, and it's slow - simply no use for it.
Same for Forest Meditation.. what is it for? Life steel around 1k or a simple potion will do so much more.
I haven't had the courage yet to try the Pathfinder path.. from what i read, i wish i would't come up at all..
Guess I'll have to get rid of my HR in the end, because it's so far from what I expected. No single-shot kills (talking PvE - Aimed S. is almost useless as mobs just don't let u use it or they die before u can draw the bow, and against bosses.. well, rapid shot delivers much more dmg during same period so it's mostly not worth it), no considerable AoE (after nerfs), no considerable meelee, very limited CC, no nuke.
New players will be expecting it to be something sniper like - a true ranged dmg-dealer with huge crits. If they start with a HR class, they'll be bady disappointed - I'm sure of that. Perhaps u could rename the class to something more appropriate.. like Tree Hugger, or Berrypicker...
To say it short.. you are about to turn HR into a looser class.
Comments
Bear Trap seems not to get any benefit from Armor Penetration.
Pathfinder's Action feature (which gives running speed + deflect) simply does not work.
Overall, this paragon might work for Nature builds but DPS wise it is very weak, even weaker than Stormwarden.
I ran my HR on test server this whole afternoon and honestly I do not feel like I was playing a Striker class. Aside of Thorn ward and Rain of Arrow, everything else hit like wet noodles. An average of 1.5-2k dmg for all encounters, seriously???
Cruel Recovery. Another ability that looks good on paper if it stacked to some degree. With the PVP debuff we are talking only about .5 percent hit points. This is nothing. .5 (1 percent in PVE) stacking 10 times would be better and not OP in PVP at all. It would be enough to keep us going as a hunter and about it.
Ambush. I can not see a usefulness at all as a melee HR in PVP.
Bear trap. Yeah great another thing to have to aim. If I wanted to aim I would be a ranged HR or Hybird.
Battlehoned. Would be great for PVE not really very useful after PVP nerf. Before the PVP nerf it would have been a great thing to have. Now active mitigation wins out versus regen. So for PVP I would still go with the current lone-wolf.
Pathfinder action. I seen no evidence this is working and other classes get similar buffs (or better) from class actions that are always on rather they use a daily or not. So to make it so that it only works via a daily is kinda dumb.
All in all if they would take away the use of a daily requirement for pathfinder action I would go pathfinder just for the deflect and run speed. As it stands there is a lot of neat toys and a lot of things that look AWESOME on paper but just do not play out very well.
Currently the damage end of HR is just too low on preview. Most classes have a great execute ability like the GWF's IBS or the TR's lashing blade or the CW's anything. We have to be creative on our executes and what we use on an execute and when we found something that works like fox shift to help alleviate the pain it gets taken away.
In short we are the red headed step child and we can not have nice things.
However if the Devs wanted to I really see path finder taking off as the goto for melee HR's with only but a few modifications.
1. Remove daily use requirement for Pathfinder Action. <-- SUPER important. Without removing this requirement there is no way Pathfinder will stack up to Storm.
2. Remove the target requirement for Careful attack. This is the Pathfinders version of Clear the ground it should have the same function. Maybe this is asking a lot of an at will but hey it is what it is. Also why is this not generating action points....
3. Allow temp hit points to stack upto 10. Once again this would make it worth a slot for PVE still not good enough to slot it for PVP.
4. Get rid of Dev's choice Fox shift or Bear trap and give us an execute ability. I give a choice here because let's be honest fox shift is no longer worth it for melee and we need an execute ability badly. They can even remake Fox shift to become a single target nuke that we need. However bear trap is just all around bad. Bad damage and bad mechanic small AOE just nothing good at all about it.
Generally speaking all of the new skills are just bad, and what's more important, their analogues from storm warden's path are too much better to even consider choosing a pathfinder over storm warden.
Careful attack does nearly no damage, I tried to wipe group of mobs using both combinations - careful attack+split attack or just careful attack alone. Both were at most just as effective as split attack used alone (if not worse).
Class features didn't amaze me even a bit, the temporary HP bonus is just too low to make a difference (stormstep action is waaay better alone than both of these even combined, I won't even mention about how nice was twin-blade storm).
I wouldn't choose a new daily over disruptive or seismic shot in any case.
Bear trap seems for me to be the only skill worth using, but only in pvp just because of it's stun. But anyway the fact u have to to aim with it, and it's extremely narrow range would force me I guess to use hindering strike over bear trap.
In pvp pathfinder will be easily beaten by a stormwarden's build, in pve he's even more useless (if I'd go to dungeon with this encounter thing that marks enemies and drop some useless traps with such narrow range, I wouldn't do more DMG than a GF with tanky build or cleric and would be kicked from party without a warning )
If they want Fox Shift to only hit once make it a one hit deal that hits for 4k ish (so people with gear and crit specced for dmg could get their one 8k ability) and give it a bit more casting range. There, no untargetable for 4 hits <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and much moredodgable in pvp.
Storm step action, was already fixed and really doesnt need this nerf, maybe make some other new pathfinder class features better. The one with regen and the other one with deflect and moveespeed should be combined imo, all three stats pop when hit. As is the defl/movespeed buff only working when using a daily is WEAK.
The regen one is ok, but with healing depression needs something else.Maybe lifesteal AND regen? IDK.
Bear trap/ ambush, this has fun potential, make it work. Let us move during the stealth, and make channeled animations not break it. The bear trap needs to be a LOT bigger. I like that it can be placed without a target but its as tiny as rain of arrows if not smaller.
Ive seen cryptic drop nerfs that they realize are too over the top before, like with TR's, but I've also seen them "balance" classes into obscurity for months and months too (DC's, many CoX classes). This is why the forum backlash is harsher here then in some other games. I hope they don't get bothered by our "harsh" delivery system and understand why ppl get bothered as much as we do. Do not let these go live. ty kindly.
I think it was posted before but for those that have tried the HR changes, here is a link to the Pahtfinder paragon.. I feel there was a disconnect in interpretation...
Pathfinder Paragon
Actually, I think the Deflection side might be bugged. It's only adding 3% per rank instead of 5%.
U could also do something about the "Cold steel Hurricane". It's the most useless Daily i've seen among all classes. No dmg output, no CC effect at all, and it's slow - simply no use for it.
Same for Forest Meditation.. what is it for? Life steel around 1k or a simple potion will do so much more.
I haven't had the courage yet to try the Pathfinder path.. from what i read, i wish i would't come up at all..
Guess I'll have to get rid of my HR in the end, because it's so far from what I expected. No single-shot kills (talking PvE - Aimed S. is almost useless as mobs just don't let u use it or they die before u can draw the bow, and against bosses.. well, rapid shot delivers much more dmg during same period so it's mostly not worth it), no considerable AoE (after nerfs), no considerable meelee, very limited CC, no nuke.
New players will be expecting it to be something sniper like - a true ranged dmg-dealer with huge crits. If they start with a HR class, they'll be bady disappointed - I'm sure of that. Perhaps u could rename the class to something more appropriate.. like Tree Hugger, or Berrypicker...
To say it short.. you are about to turn HR into a looser class.