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There should be a minimum Glory reward for Domination matches
zaodonn
Member Posts: 109
Getting "No Glory Awarded" at the end of a match because you got annihilated is a flaw that needs to be fixed.
The premise that Cryptic/PWE assumes is, that if you lost that badly, you deserve no reward. Or perhaps that was to combat bots/afkers from getting rewards. Or both.
However, due to the Elo system being either off or 100% broken, honest, fighting, players can get absolutely smoked and get absolutely nothing in return. "No glory awarded".
This is Cryptic/PWEs fault for a broken matchmaking system, NOT the players fault.
Therefore, you must assign some glory as minimum reward for "participating" in PvP Domination. I have no idea how you want to judge "participation" - measure afk time, check # deaths, whatever - to see if a player is really "participating" (but still getting owned and getting 0 points). Its up to Cryptic/PWE to decide how to do it. But going solely on "points" to determine if you get Glory or none at all is not acceptable or fair for those that end up in a skewed match (which is cryptic's fault).
The premise that Cryptic/PWE assumes is, that if you lost that badly, you deserve no reward. Or perhaps that was to combat bots/afkers from getting rewards. Or both.
However, due to the Elo system being either off or 100% broken, honest, fighting, players can get absolutely smoked and get absolutely nothing in return. "No glory awarded".
This is Cryptic/PWEs fault for a broken matchmaking system, NOT the players fault.
Therefore, you must assign some glory as minimum reward for "participating" in PvP Domination. I have no idea how you want to judge "participation" - measure afk time, check # deaths, whatever - to see if a player is really "participating" (but still getting owned and getting 0 points). Its up to Cryptic/PWE to decide how to do it. But going solely on "points" to determine if you get Glory or none at all is not acceptable or fair for those that end up in a skewed match (which is cryptic's fault).
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I've been pushing my suggestions to fix rewards for a while now, and it would fix this completely.
You can not give Glory as a minimum reward for losing under the current system because it encourages abuse, and you end up with people who sit in the campfire and/or hide in the match. They are just as bad and have the same impact on the game as people who quit a match.
What is needed is alternative methods of rewarding Glory for the losing team. Metrics that show the player was fighting, that they were participating in the match, would allow the awarding of Glory in a loss in a way that both encourages participation, and helps to ruin the whole reason for camping/hiding. Base it on damage dealt, damage taken and time fighting on point (as a bonus)
Combine these new metrics for scoring with the removal of Glory from the daily rewards, or link them together. Instead of "play 4 matches" it could be "earn X amount of Glory", where X is a reasonable amount that should be able to be earned even in 4 lopsided matches provided you keep fighting.
If done correctly, there would be no reason for camping/hiding as a method to get your daily reward as it wouldn't work. The only way to get Glory would be to queue up for PvP and fight for it. Not only that, but if you get a semi decent glory reward, even in a loss, people would complain less about their PvP matchups in general.
If your team is hundreds of point behind each player still has the choice to Die Gloriously (and pick up a few points of Glory) or sit around the campfire (and lose a few points of Glory).
Remember at the start the command is: 5 4 3 2 1 FIGHT!
I can actually say I agree with you. Having a minimum encourages bot usage (would be nice to have a way to filter that)
However having a system that basically scores you on your personal performance would be awesome, seems like it used to do that as even losing matches I used to get upwards of 400 sometimes more during pvp events for losing. But that was because I was still capping and or killing. So basically if your ratio is bad then you get less if its high you get better rewards. Then of course winners of the match should get a winner's bonus sum, a couple hundred on top of what they accrue through participation, I rather enjoyed seeing matches where I get 1400 glory, however I didn't pvp day in and day out so that might be way i'm only seeing 400 - 600 on a win on average and getting 0 - 200 for losing. With pricing where things are it seems to be quite the cut in and is taking forever to get any amount of glory to buy the artifiact let alone buy gear. Of which I might add I still and full on against adding tenacity, I mean really get it off the gear and just give all players some resistance to control effects isn't that the point of a level field?
I read somewhere that people get gear and enchants for an edge, but right now that edge is more than an edge its almost allowing for complete imbalance.
If I can't get one cap and get a few assists at the minimum I don't deserve Glory.
Yes you do, and it comes in the form of the daily reward, which you can "earn" by doing nothing. That's the flaw in the reward system. Stop rewarding people for doing nothing and they will stop doing "nothing" for a reward.
And i lost pretty loopsided games where the score was 1000-200 or so and still got 120-150ish glory and thats 25-30% of the glory for a "full win" 500g... and you find that not enough? people complaining about levers penalty (1 leaver only in about 30 matches) people complaining about permastealth (you can almost AFK in your node if you are somewhat tanky and they dont kill you) people complaining about unkillable HRs (only good ones i found are the hybrid close combat focused/ranged support ones, and thats because they have a freaking 30%+ movement speed) complains about GWFs... they are ok, i dont see them preposteus like they are in PvE, just slightly OP, whine whine whine...
IS A FREAKING GAME THAT AWARDS YOU WITH VIRTUAL STUFF THAT YOU DONT EVEN OWN! and is FUN, no, is not great, lacks the feel or a real E-sport, and sometimes you feel really so outmatched that makes you wonder why, but in those cases, instead of complaining and AFK, take the rest of the game (short games i must admit) to OBSERVE AND LEARN, what is doing this team that i am not? why is that dude seemingly unkillable? inspect the enemies, fight focused on watching what is your enemy doing instead of trying to win... etc
BUT DONT COME TO FORUMS TO CRY!
Due to the current system people "could" bot if they wanted to due to the daily. 4 PvP matches, win or lose, gives 4k AD (and 500 Glory i believe now as well?) without having to get a single kill, point, anything. Or a person could just enter, afk, and get the daily as well.
To be honest, i don't see an issue with "no rewards".....if i could leave a completely lopsided match, but due to the new penalty, it is pretty bad to have to put up with either being rolfstomped for 10+ minutes, or sitting and waiting for the match to end and get nothing.
True, but if there were rewards for standing in the campfire, the bots could farm 50x more glory.
Speaking of which, having more bots in the pvp queue system will lead to more occurrences of one team being roflstomped for 10+minutes.
Solves one problem, introduces another.
Point taken, but i get the feeling this is one issue that will "get solved" as your ELO goes up....if the system is working/in place that is.
Otherwise ask for the other team to cap trade, and if all else fails, just wait it out.
Well I am fine with the idea of rewarding players doing PVP, but you need to introduce it with more restrictions to prevent the system from being filled with bots.
Bots/AFKers would still get 0 glory with this suggestion. Because my suggestion, if you ACTUALLY READ the OP, was to reward glory on "participation" instead of "score".
Current system: Bot/AFKer will get 0 score, 0 glory.
My proposal: Bot/AFKer will get 0 "participation" rating, 0 glory.
The only bots which could get any glory under my suggestion are bots which actually maneuver their bots into the map, capture nodes, fight, etc. And guess what? Those same bots get "Score" in the current system, and therefore get glory.
However, AFKers in both systems (current based on "Score", and my proposal based on "participation") get 0 in both cases!!!
The ONLY DIFFERENCE between the existing system (glory rewarded on "score") and my proposal (glory rewarded on "participation") is that REAL ACTUAL PLAYERS will get some (SMALL!) amount of glory for TRYING to fight and play the match, even if they get ROFLPWNSTOMPED and spawn camped.
NOTICE: I never said HOW to measure "participation", I clearly said its up to Cryptic to figure THAT PART out for themselves. But there are obvious things NOT to count, like deaths (because bots can easily "die"). They could, FOR EXAMPLE (EXAMPLE ONLY) count total damage you do, total healing you do, # of Encounter Powers you use, # of At-wills you use, # of enemy players you damage, # of times you ENTER a Node Zone, # of SECONDS you spend ON a Node zone, etc.
All of those things CAN be botted, but so can the CURRENT SYSTEM, so its NO WORSE for botting, and it still rewards NOTHING to AFKers, yet the 1 and ONLY kind of player this solves a problem for is REAL PLAYERS WHO TRY.
But I don't blame people afk at spawn if the game is just unbalanced. Any exp PVP player can tell a match is even or not within the first 2 mins of the game.
No point keep going if all that you do is go out and get focused by 103920192029 people then die, if you wanna do that just make sure you put something on top of your T key so you will automatically walk out of spawn when you revive and then get killed :P
You know, technically cryptic already has decided how to measure "participation" by requiring the current min amount of points in order to get the min amount of glory.
Essence of Aggression
what i agree with is a length problem, there is no time limit to the match and very balanced matches can take much more time to finish then other, but leading to less glory/time... at the top of this, playing on higher ELO rating doesnt give any glory bonus, even when matches are supposed to be much harder for those people, so they deserve more reward imo, win isnt always the same as win...
But as some have pointed out that is there to prevent people from queuing and never leaving spawn.
If you have any recommendations to how this could be improved I would love to hear it but I am not sure it can. Anything I think of from counting deaths, damage, contest times and more can be easily exploited.
Before it's argued that it is worth it being exploitable because this is the most infuriating thing since Mystra died...
In this case I promise you the last thing any real player wants is it to be easy to trick the system to give glory.
The no glory wall makes even those who do want to ruin everybody else's experience try at least to a certain extent. Any reduction in difficulty getting the minimum points needed for glory rewards will directly result in an increase in bots, AFKers and general trolls. It really is a fine line to balance on between two evils.
Well, its a good thing I never recommended making it EASIER to get glory, and only made a suggestion to make it DIFFERENT.
Once again, this idea (using a "participation" measurement rather than purely "points" gained) does not affect botting (for better or worse) and does not affect AFKing (they still get ZIP). So, I have no idea why you would say that it could be "easily exploited".
How can you "easily exploit" the amount of damage you deal throughout the match?
How can you "easily exploit" the total healing you do throughout the match?
How can you "easily exploit" the # of times you use an At-will or Encounter throughout the match?
If someone drops down from their spawn (i.e. not AFK) and deals damage, well GEE WHIZ they are fighting, and should get SOMETHING even if they die and are completely outmatched by the (BROKEN) matchmaking system.
If someone drops down from their spawn (i.e. not AFK) and heals their teammates, well GEE WHIZ they are fighting, and should get SOMETHING even if they die and are completely outmatched by the (BROKEN) matchmaking system.
If someone drops down from their spawn (i.e. not AFK) and uses their powers to fight, well GEE WHIZ they are fighting, and should get SOMETHING even if they die and are completely outmatched by the (BROKEN) matchmaking system.
Anyone who is using "BOT" software can program that bot to move and fight, this is a fact. Right now, that bot AND the LEGIT players all get 0 glory if they face a ROFLSTOMPING.
Right now, anyone who goes AFK AND LEGIT players all get 0 glory of they face a ROFLSTOMPING.
So, comparing the current system (everyone gets 0 glory in a mismatched game) to my proposal (legit players get some, minimum glory, even if its 50 glory, if the system determines they at least participated/tried in a mismatched game), the proposal is better.
And you cannot say that legit players should suffer because the game company can't stop botting, that's B.S. PvP bots do the EXACT same thing in a loop when starting at respawn. It should take your system all of 3 repetitions to detect this loop and ban the account.