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kweassa
Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
I've finally managed to upload some videos of how my new suggested concept build works out in PvP.
Mind you that:
(1) Yes, I admit that most of the situations depicted were optimistic. But I think a good TR is all about carefully choosing battles and situational awareness.. so..
(2) Yes, I admit some of the opponents depicted were obviously low or equal in gear. Around the time I filmed these videos I was around 10k GS. But I didn't have any major enchantments at all. I think most of the opponents were actually probably above me in GS;; or at least equal (not confident about it, though)
(3) This build in was before I tested out mixing it up with the Scoundrel Path. So its actually a slightly outdated build when I just chose Whisperknife/Executioner. This video also does not yet use the "Rolling Slash" technique used with VP+Dodge.
(4) Sorry for the quality of the vids;; I'm not too good in making movies.
(5) These videos are basically a showcase of what the concept is. I think it could be summarized as; "Dance like a butterefly, sting like a bee". Like I've mentioned before, the way Xuna fights in the Neverwinter CG trailer was the main inspiration; a fluid, continuous series of movements and attacks.
(6) I am an average, or below average grade of a player. I'm sure the better players of this community can do a lot better, and perhaps develop it into a lot more efficient form.
Hope you enjoy!
[1] 0:30 long, Showcase http://youtu.be/yL0c7NczwYU
This first vid is a showcase about the concept of the build. My build was not designed to be a relentless, tenacious, "I kill you all" type of assassin build, but more of a 'flashy' style. It uses continuous, unending barrage of small strikes and "chips away" at the enemy, than relying on heavy hits.
[2] 2:15 long, Prolonged Engagements http://youtu.be/Owg0NKXr_6U
Shows a series of fights, the in-and-out/hit-and-run nature of the build, and the "No one escapes the Whisperknife" motto of the build.
[3] 0:52 long, Sudden Attack http://youtu.be/LcLKHYE-vWA
One thing that works out for this build, is that VP as a gap-closer. The basic pattern of the build would be encounter - stealth - approach with VP at unexpected moments/angles - land a few hits - escape - rinse and repeat. Most people seem to be confused with this, as the usual rogue types they'd meet would either run up and approach directly, or linger around with barrage of knives. Compared to that, approach with VP does not telegraph anything. Suddenly you're there, and then you're out.
[4] 1:23 long, Continuous Positioning http://youtu.be/DeF2KcYeDZY
I think the best part of this build, is that VP allows continuous positioning and tracking. A 2v2 fight quickly turns bad for me, but I was able to survive long enough, and "chip away" enough damage to both opponents until help arrived.
[5] 1:27 long, General Engagement http://youtu.be/SM97g3ghbgo
A general encounter-combat situation.
[6] 0:29 long, 1vs1 Against another Rogue http://youtu.be/3GGY7_YT1Og
In this case I was clearly the underdog. My guess is the rogue had maybe around 1.5k GS advantage over me. Consecutive criticals landed by his Impact Shots also made it worse. But I actually held my own for quite a bit, and was dealing more damage to him. What I didn't expect was the Lashing Blades and Shocking Execution, that part went bad. In that entire match, that's the first time I saw him using it, so I naturally assumed he was an all-ranged build.
Mind you that:
(1) Yes, I admit that most of the situations depicted were optimistic. But I think a good TR is all about carefully choosing battles and situational awareness.. so..
(2) Yes, I admit some of the opponents depicted were obviously low or equal in gear. Around the time I filmed these videos I was around 10k GS. But I didn't have any major enchantments at all. I think most of the opponents were actually probably above me in GS;; or at least equal (not confident about it, though)
(3) This build in was before I tested out mixing it up with the Scoundrel Path. So its actually a slightly outdated build when I just chose Whisperknife/Executioner. This video also does not yet use the "Rolling Slash" technique used with VP+Dodge.
(4) Sorry for the quality of the vids;; I'm not too good in making movies.
(5) These videos are basically a showcase of what the concept is. I think it could be summarized as; "Dance like a butterefly, sting like a bee". Like I've mentioned before, the way Xuna fights in the Neverwinter CG trailer was the main inspiration; a fluid, continuous series of movements and attacks.
(6) I am an average, or below average grade of a player. I'm sure the better players of this community can do a lot better, and perhaps develop it into a lot more efficient form.
Hope you enjoy!
[1] 0:30 long, Showcase http://youtu.be/yL0c7NczwYU
This first vid is a showcase about the concept of the build. My build was not designed to be a relentless, tenacious, "I kill you all" type of assassin build, but more of a 'flashy' style. It uses continuous, unending barrage of small strikes and "chips away" at the enemy, than relying on heavy hits.
[2] 2:15 long, Prolonged Engagements http://youtu.be/Owg0NKXr_6U
Shows a series of fights, the in-and-out/hit-and-run nature of the build, and the "No one escapes the Whisperknife" motto of the build.
[3] 0:52 long, Sudden Attack http://youtu.be/LcLKHYE-vWA
One thing that works out for this build, is that VP as a gap-closer. The basic pattern of the build would be encounter - stealth - approach with VP at unexpected moments/angles - land a few hits - escape - rinse and repeat. Most people seem to be confused with this, as the usual rogue types they'd meet would either run up and approach directly, or linger around with barrage of knives. Compared to that, approach with VP does not telegraph anything. Suddenly you're there, and then you're out.
[4] 1:23 long, Continuous Positioning http://youtu.be/DeF2KcYeDZY
I think the best part of this build, is that VP allows continuous positioning and tracking. A 2v2 fight quickly turns bad for me, but I was able to survive long enough, and "chip away" enough damage to both opponents until help arrived.
[5] 1:27 long, General Engagement http://youtu.be/SM97g3ghbgo
A general encounter-combat situation.
[6] 0:29 long, 1vs1 Against another Rogue http://youtu.be/3GGY7_YT1Og
In this case I was clearly the underdog. My guess is the rogue had maybe around 1.5k GS advantage over me. Consecutive criticals landed by his Impact Shots also made it worse. But I actually held my own for quite a bit, and was dealing more damage to him. What I didn't expect was the Lashing Blades and Shocking Execution, that part went bad. In that entire match, that's the first time I saw him using it, so I naturally assumed he was an all-ranged build.
Stop making excuses. Be a man.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Post edited by kweassa on
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It's actually a DEX/CHA deflection build, around 26 dex/22 cha for a 41% deflection chance, 25k HP. I always liked evasion/dodge builds in MMOGs, so when I first started playing NW and saw that halflings had a +3% deflect trait, I planned this out before I realized there already was a publicly disclosed deflect/regen build.
I'm not sure if higher INT would beenfit me in anyway, because the of the three main Encounters I use, VP has no recharge at all, Wicked Reminder is only 4 seconds. Perhaps it could benefit Shadow Strike, but I'm not sure by how much.
When I fused this build with Scoundrel/Action Rush, I didn't have any feats that boosted my AP gain. Action Rush was the only one I had -- and yet, with so much use of Wicked Reminder and VP, I was able to use dailies every two or three fights that happened. Sometimes, in a bit longer lasting 1vs1 situations, I actually used dailies twice.
So I don't think INT would really effect the build.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Admittedly, this was one of the most ideal applications of Smoke Bomb. Things went REALLY great. You can see how the tightly grouped, mutual-supporting team simply falls apart into pieces with that one smoke bomb, scatters all over, and then gets picked off one-by-one.
I didn't get many kills -- but when you smoke bomb like this, you know you've contributed the most with the single most decisive maneuver of that fight. Smoke bomb brings out a lot of such opportunities, and though it has recently dropped out of my regular choice of powers, I still switch to it according to situation. This vid would probably best demonstrate my point in "combat support rogues"
http://youtu.be/7ymfQqtruGY
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Because of the very fast in-and-out nature of the build, it relies on speed and insane maneuvering. Whisperknives don't have ITC -- running around huge fights without ITC and without any ranged attacks as a main power (like Cloud of Steel or Impact Shot), this means the continuous movement and quick-thinking is the only defense a WK has. For this task, Duelist's Flurry is massively slow. You can try hop around all you want, and it still doesn't give you anywhere near the speed Sky Flourish can.
If you look at the videos, the WK/VP build continuously tracks the target, lands a few hits, when the enemy turns around to retaliate you roll away and disappear, and when he is not expecting gets right back into attack range, takes more swipes, and you repeat this until the small amount of damage keeps piling up to unmanageable levels. During this process, any hint of big enmey retaliation and you need to bail immediately. You can't do that with DF.
Also, when enemies try to run away, that's the worst possible mistake against a WK/VP build. Instead of trying to stick around to friendly players, they try to run backwards and gain distance. That only makes them an isolated target, and nothing escpaes a Whisperknife. So, when you are tracking runners, you teleport, takes swipes at their back, they dodge/shift/whatever, you teleport again, land a few swipes again, until they realize the mistake and decide to fight with a massive HP disadvantage, or never realize this and just try to run until drops dead. You can't do this with DF.
I'm currently trying to come up with a guide and more videos. Thank you for your interest in this build.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The conditions seemed pretty equal, rest of the players similar in skill level, obviously no visible massive gear advantage to either side. Both side had a nice mix of classes and cleric healers.
Didn't go for only 1-vs-1s, participated in almost all of the fights, and at considerable time of that within close ranges to multiple enemies. Smoke Bomb allows you to do that, fight like Xuna... and also multiple occasions of me Smoke Bombing to save our own teammates fro m enemy attack, all depicted in the video.
My opinion is there are still more powers and builds that should be thoroughly tested out for actual combat application, and people should not just come to conclusions based on initial opinions of the class. I respect the great TR players, but its not like their words are the Bible.
A TR that can infiltrate the rear lines to cause havoc, that's awesome. But I think a TR that relishes the chaotic mass combat environment, that offers invaluable contributions to the victory of the team is awesome, too.
Make sure it is at 720HD quailty in your Youtube screen.
"Smoke Gets in your Eyes" http://youtu.be/CCGkwTXb6hQ
Enjoy!
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Ah. Thank you for the info this is kinda what I'm going for with my WK
A small tip you might not know, if you find yourself in stealth with no enemies around you can quickly mount/dismount to stop the stealth depletion, then it will be up full when enemies come.
Again, thanks for taking the time to make this.
Thank you for your input!
The "killing potential" is a problem I am fully aware with, but I expect it to improve a bit as I acquire gear along the way. Currently my GS is at about 12k, and with this setup it is really, really tough to duke it out with rogues around 14k+. Another problem is that since the general motto for this build/play style is team support and enemy disruption, I am using Plaguefire enchantment to synergize with Wicked Reminder.
The killing potential does dramatically improve if you switch it to Vorpal and slot one of the powers with a more damage-oriented Encounter such as Lashing Blade or Impact Shot, even perhaps Dazing Strike. The problem is, my play style was more or less derived from the fact that PuGs are unstable, and getting individual kill scores up don't mean much when the rest of the team has serious problems in facing the onslaught of enemy TRs or GWFs. Like others have correctly mentioned in other threads, this set-up also cannot infiltrate the back door and harass enemy node against 2~3 people at the same time, using long stealth and ITC.
It's more of a direct combat support, enemy harassment, and friendly rescue type of concept, so about half of this "lack of killing potential" was more or less, a result of a conscious choice.
I am grateful for your interest in the build, and your criticism. Thank you for viewing the videos!
Thanks!
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'