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Twinking...
inquisitorrahl
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
...is there a faster way to bleed a pvp playerbase than allowing twinking? Very few people will level 1-max level and not want to PvP at all. If you try and PvP atm, without the epic scaling gear and stupid high enchants you will be dead weight, you will be frustrated, you will not have fun and you will stop queuing.
I don't mind gear grinds, I don't mind getting stomped on now and then, but that's at max level vs people playing for long periods of time. Not when I'm trying to level characters.
You want to grow a PvP playerbase, you make PvP fun and balanced at ALL LEVELS, especially in a game that still, relatively speaking, new and looking for word of mouth spread.
Put gear restrictions on enchantments, put leaver penalties in, start replacing people when someone leaves, tune down the Mulhorand gear in PvP instances. These are things that have been dealt with by other MMO's years ago, this is just sloppy developing.
You can't argue that twinking is fun, it's not. It's funny to one shot a couple people now and then but then you realize how unfun it is when people start to leave, and you stand around for 7 minutes waiting for points to tick in for domination and then end the round with jack for exp and glory because you had no action all game.
It's a shame, this game has great potential, I like the classes, I like the flavor and I like the combat system, but it is being squandered right now and it's just frustrating as hell. The 10-19 and 20-29 brackets should not be the most fun PvP I can recall.
I don't mind gear grinds, I don't mind getting stomped on now and then, but that's at max level vs people playing for long periods of time. Not when I'm trying to level characters.
You want to grow a PvP playerbase, you make PvP fun and balanced at ALL LEVELS, especially in a game that still, relatively speaking, new and looking for word of mouth spread.
Put gear restrictions on enchantments, put leaver penalties in, start replacing people when someone leaves, tune down the Mulhorand gear in PvP instances. These are things that have been dealt with by other MMO's years ago, this is just sloppy developing.
You can't argue that twinking is fun, it's not. It's funny to one shot a couple people now and then but then you realize how unfun it is when people start to leave, and you stand around for 7 minutes waiting for points to tick in for domination and then end the round with jack for exp and glory because you had no action all game.
It's a shame, this game has great potential, I like the classes, I like the flavor and I like the combat system, but it is being squandered right now and it's just frustrating as hell. The 10-19 and 20-29 brackets should not be the most fun PvP I can recall.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Post edited by inquisitorrahl on
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It's not the gear itself that much, it is what you can slot in it...
Just buying a Mulhorand weapon on all of my characters added another 30-40% on all my damage skills. I'm not even wearing good enchantments and have no weapon enchants. They help quite a bit and if you want to PvP at all I suggest you always at least try and pick up the weapons for cheap AD on the AH.
The enchantments are what break things, doesn't even have to be a weapon enchant. Rank 8+ enchants in all the gear sockets adds up to a lot of extra stats for lower levels.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
And honestly I've yet to see a game that doesn't have twinking in it. Twinking is part of mmo's for good or ill and it will never go away.
Guild Wars.
That said it's still a feature in mmo's and I don't think it needs to go anywhere. People like to twink, and even if the mulhorand gear never existed people would still be doing it, they just wouldn't have weapon and armor enchants but they'd still know where to go for blue gear with slots and be able slot r10's in them.
There would be a difference but it's overall fairly small as getting -10 hp or -20000000000 hp amounts to the same thing... dead.
It is for Ill only, and it can go away. Several mechanics that would make twinking vastly less desirable in pvp (not necessarily recommending any of these, just pointing out any one of them would make twinking less popular):
1. the variable reward method: increase rewards based on lower quality gear reduce rewards for higher quality gear. Gear above a certain point makes participating in PvP and PvE both yield no drops, no exp, no glory and no quest completion (for example, if you're doing the level 30 daily domination an have a gear score more than double what datamining says is the target for that bracket you cannot ever get credit for your matches and thus cannot complete the mission and will not accumulate any glory. On the other hand if you have less than 33% of the target gear score you might get double or triple glory/exp/gold and complete the daily with only one match not 3).
2. Brackets by gear score and not level. Got an 8k level 10, have fun fighting 8k level 50s.
3. Remove all gear from players upon entering the arena and replace it with temporary fake gear that all has the same stats. Essentially, make it just like any old first-person shooter where everyone is on equal footing. Possibly have 2 or 3 gar sets to select from.
4. Ladder systems that removes glory for fighting players vastly below you in experience/rank. Not just "only reward you for fighting equal or greater", but actually punish you for fighting too far below your rank.
5. add level requirements to everything, or scale all bonuses by level of wielder, so that a in the hands of a level 10 character a rank 3 enchantment and a rank 10 enchantment give the same bonus. In the hands of a level 30 character a rank 5 mod and rank 10 mod give the same, but 1-3 are lower. Champions already has a version of this. But it's not so extreme.
Twinking only exists when the developers create mechanics that allow it. Changing the mechanics changes the way players will behave and there are methods to give a good reason to actually use worse gear, thus making the system reward skill not gear.
This would be the best option, but I doubt it will ever happen in this game.
That would be the worst option for cryptic. Everyone that spent money and time getting r10's perfects, bis gear would quit in anger and never look back or spend another dime. Invalidate peoples time and they will not give you money again.
A ranked and unranked system where ranked has a gear score/ ELO rating system and offers the best AD, gear or title rewards would work out well I think.
It's dumb, it's broken and it turns new players off. I've tried to get some friends into this game and they like it until they start running into twinks and then they think that PvP is just always going to be that way(to an extent it still can be even at 60 but not so bad) and they don't even want to bother to keep leveling.
We need to grow the player base, not stomp it into a handful of bitter grizzled "hardcore pvp'ers" that just say if you can't deal with it you suck, get better etc and then complain that they have 15 minute queues, it's the same 5 people over and over again and they're bored and its Cryptics fault they didn't get more players somehow.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Or give the glory vendor some low-level items (BoP) that are comparable to the stuff people are twinking with, for hefty prices. At least then there's an incentive to actually try at those levels.
Many F2P mmos have chosen to put everyone on an equal footing in pvp, to make balancing easier and to preserve fun in pvp. Eventually Neverwinter will come to this option, if the devs are brave enough to do it.
There are people (like myself) who have stayed around for the PvE (for now) while all but abandoning PvP because we don't have pvorps or tenes or stuff like that. If I felt like I could be actually competitive in PvP instead of getting curb stomped (either because those enchants were removed from PvP or I could easily get them) I might give it another go.
But yes, for those whom the p2w has driven them to uninstall, the incentive will likely be quite low.