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as long is cw broken op GFW cant have spot in team
warpet
Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
im sad since u guys done allmost nothing to bring cw in line with other class in pve why is so hard to stop some of debuff /buffs from working in pve? why is so hard to nerf sing to 5 targets like all ours daily have?:(
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slam have 5 target caps since long time ago i did not test spinig to much but it have 5 tragets to think
As said from warpet: Slam max hit 5 target once. Spinning Strike have 5 too. VM is the only one daily in GF path, that have no cap or a really high one. GF Terrifying Impact has max 5 hits. Avalanche of Steel (GWF) have a high/infinite Targetcap.
GWF don't hit more than 5 targets with WS or WMS. Don't know how many targets you can hit with Aggra in GF Guard, but infinite numbers don't mean at that skill, that it ever can hit more than 5 targets too(because of the hitbox sphere consume of mobs). So infinite hitting(or at least more than 5 target once) is more the exception as the opposite.
Why is the answer always to nerf someone else when you have a problem with something?
Btw, everyone is getting nerfed as they are "fixing" AP generation on AoE skills to a fixed amount regardless of how many enemies are being hit.
Who is getting nerfed if he isn't in the group? The CW class need changes and nerfs to up the other classes. While it's better with 2 or even 3 CWs in a group to run most dungeons, it need to break such partysetup.
yeah this setup up must stop im sick of it to
nerfing just leads to a vicious circle of finger pointing and hoping one another gets the shaft instead of coming up with a solution to boost others and put them all up on par.
Personally, I think GWF's are about to be absolute king in PvP, but I don't want them nerfed, I want others to have ways to deal with their abilities.
The GWF ap generation was nerfed 4-5 patches ago.
He's been referring to PvE, not PvP.
He is right about the 3CW groups, it has to stop.
I do respect your opinion, though - take care.
Well looks like I never quite paid attention the the caps after all. Aggra definitely has no cap, Cleave has one, probably five as well.
Then aggra have at least max 5 hits. Because it's only a small corridoraoe, it can't hit mobs outside it. That's the bad side of a skill with high targetcap but no big Area hit.
You have to take both PvE and PvP into account, not just one or the other. I'm all for creating a balance and making groups more dynamic, I just think you need better solutions than to simply keep nerfing the most appealing option.
CW's had shield AP generation nerf a while back too, it hasn't all been one sided.
My current concern though, with all these changes is, is that the GF is now going to be left out in favor of the GWF once M2 is released. This doesn't mean I want GWF's nerfed though, it means I want GF's given a reason to be on a group, same with GWF's and TR's and CW's.
The CW shield Ap gain was a big gamebreaker in condition of Ap gain. 100% Ap gain with 1 skill? Now the GF get his Ap gain nerfed with FS. To Avoid GWF better AP gain...
they should have just change steel def now because of it noone of fighters will have good ap gain
would it hurt so much to put invs walls in dungeon so no 1 shots from cw ?everyone takes cw because can 1 shot everything,cc lock everything, double damage of team members,do huge aoe dps and for u guys it is ok to have class like this ? while gf can only tank and do medium dps ,gwf cant tank and have medium dps would be so hard to give us some real good team buff and dps so we do not just more then double time needed to finish dungeons:(
The only one I can think of, and no one else has said it, is that if one class, CW's in this case, are so completely amazing, that bringing other classes up to their level would break the game completely.
The real problem is boss fight mechanics (or lack there of). If there was something implemented to make boss fights more difficult instead of just increasing trash mobs, you could start promoting party diversity.
At any rate, my whole point is, fix GWF to make it more viable in party, don't nerf CW in the hopes that more people will use the GWF in party instead of multiple CW's.
Want to fix punting? Take away the acid/lava and leave a path back to the battlefield so if you punt an enemy, they just come back to the fight. That also takes away the threat of falling off the ledge from the player as well, so I'm good with that.
Want to fix people doing speed runs? Tie the drop rates off the boss to the percentage of enemies killed in the dungeon.
What CW have: All Encounters have CC. They do great AoE damage. They can do Single damage. Have good AP gain. They can attack from range. They don't get often attack(Q.Q why the GF or another shield sucks?). They can debuff enemies. So what point of them are weak? They can be killed. But most time another have to pay the attack. Second the can use Dodge. Third they use DC as healing pots.
So what of the listed positives have other classes(except DC)?
The problem is the PvP-balance then. Buff the GWF for more CC. He gain to much in PvP. Especially the new path make a new unbalance already happened. GWFs AoE powers get hardcapped at 5 targets. Second his AoEs are really weak. So yes why don't up them? I have no clue why this not happened. Damage increase would unbalance PvP. Gaining more Ap too. The GWF don't lack DR as the CW do, but he is most time a focused target. So he can't do the same damage as the CW do. Especially with the most small Areas attack he only have. And the point what he don't have is: Debuffs. Not one that give him more damage. The one(SotS) need first a crit and is a feat not a useable power. He can't throw mobs over a edge like CWs.
What about the ability to slowly ramp up damage to a single target as long as you stay focused on that target and don't have more than X amount of seconds lapse between attacks? Something that makes them really shine in a 1 on 1 fight with the boss?
They don't need debuffs in PvE when others on their team are already doing that, and they certainly won't need debuffs in PvP to combine with their rather nasty CC abilities.
You have great points about what they can't do, but nothing to answer my question from the start. Why "fix" one class by nerfing another? Can't you just fix the class in question?
What happens when you nerf CW's control/damage (AP is about to drop) and people pick up another TR instead of a GWF? You aren't addressing the "GWF isn't worth playing in PvE" issue by pointing the finger at other classes. All this leads to is a fractured community constantly pointing the finger at one another.
Study the classes that people enjoy playing, or need in their group, and figure out ways to make other classes up to snuff.
Because the one nerfed have to many advantages with nearly no disadvantages. You can't gain advantages in a minor field of own advantages. Not without huge changes. And if they bring another Tr instead of a 2 or even 3 CW, that would be something. Then we can see if upgrading GWF bring it to the point at which the community say hmmm what is better? A second GWF for a bit better AoE/tankyness or a Tr with more single dps? Let see what dungeon we are running. And pointing a finger against a unbalanced class is maybe the courage of the truth. How many glitches can be done with GWF and how many with CW? The bosskills from afar isn't possible with GWF, but with CWs. Some dungeon offer great opportunities of throwing. GWF advantage? No.
Until CW become more of Control instead of Control+Damage, the pure damage classes become less viable.
Exactly the above.
Also, as I've said before, NW history teaches us that nerfs to CWs almost always backfire and lead to a higher demand for additional CWs in party. Far better to play with dungeon design to include encounters that are made much more efficient with the inclusion of melee damage dealers and that benefit from threat control.
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