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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Library

Am I doing something wrong?

hrodvalderhrodvalder Member Posts: 43 Arc User
edited November 2013 in The Library
Hello Fellow CWs!

I'm currently a lvl 57 CW, about to hit 60 this weekend. I think I have a pretty solid build and rotation and am currently always on rank 1 or 2 in DPS and Enemies killed in a Dungeon.

I'm gonna explain my Play-Style quickly before coming to my question: I usually hit the Shard into a crowd, teleport in, use Steal Time, IT and teleport out and use my CoI on Tab. After that I hit crowds with Storm Pillar and Single Targets with my normal At-Will Power (sry, forgot the name, first one you get anyway). And after that, rinse and repeat. As Dailies I use Singularity for some CC and IK for the big ones.

I try to focus on the mobs and clear out those adds first, but if I finally have a group (randoms only right now) we usually wipe.

So my question is this: Am I playing my class wrong? If so, pls give me some advice! If not, do I really have such bad luck that I only get newbies in my Dungeon Runs??
Post edited by hrodvalder on

Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Your powers look fine though I prefer Oppressive Force most of the time. It's not possible to say why your parties are wiping based on what information you've given. Are you using queue made parties or lfg/zone chat to find other players? Using the latter tends to get better groups and avoids having bots in the party. There are a lot of things that go wrong regardless. The tank can't or won't hold aggro, the cleric won't heal, people pulling more mobs into a fight... The dungeons require everyone to know their class and work together. The leveling process doesn't really teach much in regards to how to operate as a team. GFs and DCs particularly have completely different times soloing vs. party content.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • skippymcjuniorskippymcjunior Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    One thing I'd like to say about your spell rotation:
    Try walking up to the mods, hitting Steal Time then Shard then IT then continue with COI. You don't waste a teleport and you're guaranteed to hit your shard at point blank range.
    As said above, you maybe wiping because of bad players. Maybe they're new, they're new to the class, maybe they're having a bad day, etc. Pugs aren't the most reliable people int he world. Expect wipes probably in every dungeon (except Pirate King; that dungeon is so easy).
  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think you're wiping because everyone in the party doesn't understand how to beat that specific dungeon with the correct method. When I was levelling up, I struggle to finish a lot of dungeons because people don't know if they should be on boss or clear adds first.

    Once you hit 60 and find some decent parties, you'll find that you can beat most dungeons with just CWs + a DC, GFs aren't even needed. Each dungeon's boss has certain ways to make things easier, and in some cases necessary to handle certain adds.

    So maybe take a look at which dungeon you're failing, and why. Are you flooded with adds? Or are people just dying because they can't dodge out of red aoe's? If you're the only CW in the party, perhaps slot Entangling on tab, to gain AP as fast as possible, and put up constant daily, whether it's a sing or oppressive.
    Merlin - CW Merlyn - HR Psylocke - TR Black Widow - GWF


    Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
  • arcidosarcidos Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hmm.............
  • hrodvalderhrodvalder Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well, I usually die because I end up with the most dps and get the most attention from the mobs. The AoE isn't all too bad, I get hit sometimes but I can usually dodge away.

    "Worst" dungeons so far have been the Gray Wolf Den and Karrundax. I can dodge the AoE but End up with all the mobs chasing me and the rest of my team is pounding the boss... It's frustrating.

    So, my rotation seems good, but basically wait to hit lvl 60 and than find a guild or some good ppl to play with?
  • griffin230griffin230 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 88
    edited November 2013
    Just get the tank to grab aggro from the adds so that you don't get interrupted. Rogues etc. can easily solo dps the bosses so there's no real need for the tanks to be on them when they can help with adds.
  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hrodvalder wrote: »
    Well, I usually die because I end up with the most dps and get the most attention from the mobs. The AoE isn't all too bad, I get hit sometimes but I can usually dodge away.

    "Worst" dungeons so far have been the Gray Wolf Den and Karrundax. I can dodge the AoE but End up with all the mobs chasing me and the rest of my team is pounding the boss... It's frustrating.

    So, my rotation seems good, but basically wait to hit lvl 60 and than find a guild or some good ppl to play with?
    Please don't listen to this:
    Once you hit 60 and find some decent parties, you'll find that you can beat most dungeons with just CWs + a DC, GFs aren't even needed.
    Such nonsense)) GF must hold the aggro and not die - that's his primary goal. If you manage to find such tank, you'll find yourself alive most of the time ;)

    And btw, if you use CoI and IT, then you might like Chilling Cloud in addition. The mechanics is simple:
    ST -> mobs dazed -> SotEA -> mobs knocked down -> IT -> mobs start freezing -> CoI -> they freeze and as everyone is hitting them, they unfreeze (ofc) so this is the time to refresh chill stacks with your at-will.

    I also carry Ray of Frost to freeze/slow down some nasty targets (useful in some situations) and hit CoI even before ST - but that's just me being impatient.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hrodvalder wrote: »
    Well, I usually die because I end up with the most dps and get the most attention from the mobs. The AoE isn't all too bad, I get hit sometimes but I can usually dodge away.
    That happened to me a lot last night in MC. You end up kiting mobs, which you're the class least suited to do and if there are ranged mobs, you die anyway. You need at least one other player to help with the adds, in a balanced party the GF is probably the best choice. Regardless, you shouldn't have to solo the adds while everyone else piles on the boss.
    "Worst" dungeons so far have been the Gray Wolf Den and Karrundax. I can dodge the AoE but End up with all the mobs chasing me and the rest of my team is pounding the boss... It's frustrating.
    Those are two of the most obnoxious dungeons in the game, IMO.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Actually GFs aren't needed indeed. CWs+DC=more than enough. The fact that they aren't needed doesn't mean you shouldn't take them in dungeons, obviously not. GFs can be awesome, but the thing is, with how the current dungeons play, their role is not essential. In other MMOs, if you don't have a tank and go into a heroic (not to mention a raid) with healer+wizards, the first elite mob will run amok dealing unavoidable damage to the clothies and most probably one or two shotting them, making the healer almost useless. Such dungeons are created with the taunt ability in mind, i.e. you either have a plate wearer taunting and keeping aggro, or you wipe.

    This is not the case in NWO. Here DCs heal A LOT as AoE, clothies have AoE control spells, most mobs are controllable as well, so there's nothing they can do but die to 4 CWs + DC parties. Whenever such a party meets uncontrollable mobs, they just burn them down while dodging red circles and getting healed if there's unavoidable damage.

    So yeah - a tank? Not necessary.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    That may be the case with high geared chars in epic dungeons, but the OP is talking about the regular variety. I've been in normal Karru with 2 other wizards and while we got past the first boss, it wasn't a good run at any point.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    There are a *large* number of players who have a "zerg the boss" mentality indelibly seared into their brains, and so in every single boss fight, that is what they do, leaving the poor CW all alone to try to control the unruly mob with zero aggro/DPS support from the GF/GWF at all (and probably not many heals either!). Those are situations in which you are likely to get a wipe (and the poor CW gets the blame too).

    So if these are the situations when you are wiping, then I wouldn't worry too much about it. You just had a lousy team. But if you are wiping even with strong teamwork and DPS support, then you may want to re-evaluate what you're doing.
  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sslothzz wrote: »
    Please don't listen to this:

    Such nonsense)) GF must hold the aggro and not die - that's his primary goal. If you manage to find such tank, you'll find yourself alive most of the time ;)

    I have beaten every single dungeon in this game without a GF/GWF (no glitch), that's including frozen heart, where everyone thinks a GF is a must to tank the adds for last boss. I'm very confident to say GF is not needed. It's certainly nice to have one in some dungeons to make things easier.

    But back to the topic to help hrodvalder out.
    When I was using Thuama build, I tend to switch my skills around based on how many CWs are in the party. If I'm the only CW and no one is helping with adds, I'd have Entangling force on tab instead of COI. You'll find that it provides a lot more control, and building your AP bar so fast allows you to cast your daily more frequently.
    If there are at least 2 CWs, then things are easier, and most of your rotations that involves COI on tab will work very well.
    Merlin - CW Merlyn - HR Psylocke - TR Black Widow - GWF


    Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
  • hrodvalderhrodvalder Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Funny tid-bit since I think my question is answered thoroughly for now: Spellplague Cavern, Final Boss: 2 of the party quit and it was only me, a GWF and a DC - I was tanking the "adds", GWF ended up dealing the most dmg and the DC basically just stood there XD
    Nice run, we made it alright, just took forever...

    I think I will have my whole build in some other thread once I hit 60 (sometime today) because I think I need to respec. But anyway, thanks everyone for the answers!
  • borken69borken69 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 56
    edited November 2013
    once you hit 60, you'll be able to solo spellplague normal with no problem :)
  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    just note that the epic version of these dungeons are a lot harder, you'll need to do some research or ask about the mechanics of the boss fights
    Merlin - CW Merlyn - HR Psylocke - TR Black Widow - GWF


    Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
  • kaoswpkaoswp Banned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2013
    Try this roto:

    Steal Time, EF ON TAB, shard into group. The last one doesn't really matter but I usually go with sheild. This will clear ads faster tham you can imagine :)
  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    jaotut wrote: »
    I have beaten every single dungeon in this game without a GF/GWF (no glitch), that's including frozen heart, where everyone thinks a GF is a must to tank the adds for last boss. I'm very confident to say GF is not needed. It's certainly nice to have one in some dungeons to make things easier.
    I have done that too, dude. Not so many GFs left anyway.
    But i always prefer having a good GF in my group instead of having another good rogue/wizard. Just because it is easier for me, and i think i'm not special :) So other players might find some sense in my words too. We are not talking about doable ways, we are talking about easier ways ;)
    Although this does not apply for every single dungeon sadly.
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